Hi all, Thanks Susie, I knew you'd be able to set me straight on the copyright laws and likewise I have forwarded the message on to the other researcher. WHAT WOULD WE DO WITHOUT OUR SUSIE????? Your wealth of information and willingness to help deserves recognition. Hey, I feel like a song...........if you knew Susie, like I (we) know Susie,...oh...oh...oh what a gal....! OK, that's enough, once again, thank you for your help, Liz

G'day Dianne I originally asked the question regarding Duneed. Your information helps make some sense of where my family lived. I have found some of them in the Mt moriac cemetery, but there are others yet to be found! Regards Ian Donaldson : [GEELONG] Duneed and Mt. Duneed > If someone has answered this question already my apologies. > Duneed is the Parish and Mt. Duneed is the area, I don't think there was ever a town it was just a locality. Caused lots of confusion in the early days of cemetery research, about the cemetery at Duneed which turned out to be at Mt.Moriac. > Dianne Hughes > >

Thanks Suzie, the one on family history was especially interesting and relevant. Handy site to bookmark. Linda > The Australian Copyright Council web site is at ........ > > http://www.copyright.org.au/ > > The Information Sheets are excellent and you should look at the relevant > ones. >

Eastern Cemetery Roman Catholic Burials: When this cemetery started with it first known burial in Sept.1839, the churches decided to run their own areas, fence them off, keep their own records, employ their own sextons and gravediggers. In 1877 they all decided to join together as a General Cemetery Trust, EXCEPT the Catholics and Jews. In 1907 both the RC & Jews eventually joined into one big Trust. In the 1940's(?) the CATHOLIC burials, prior to 1907 were destroyed.Therefore if a CATHOLIC burial occurred prior to this date, we have no record UNLESS the name has been taken from all the headstone transcriptions, death notices from the Geelong Advertiser, inquests, death certs. that researchers send me, family historians personal research BUT of course ethere are many burials that are still unaccounted for. THEREFORE you ancestor may well be buried at East but we are yet to track them down! I will be grateful for those of you who purchase early Geelong burials to foward copies of these certificates for me to add details to our ever-growing database. These certificates are then passed on to the Geelong Family History Group who index. Hope this helps with explaining the 'walking dead'!!! Pam Jennings (Geelong Cemeteries Trust, 141 Ormond Rd. EAST GEELONG 3219) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Freddie Farnarkle" <farnakle@tpg.com.au> To: <AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 4:51 PM Subject: [GEELONG] Dead & Buried in Geelong but not > Hi Folks, > Long time lurker.... My ggdad's ( James Ryan) death cert says buried > Eastern Cem Geelong, but according to E.C. Record Search he's packed up and > moved!! They say he's not there!! Any suggestions appreciated. > Regards > Paul Ryan > > > ==== AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT Mailing List ==== > Geelong & District Surnames of Interest : > http://www.zades.com.au/geelong/gdname.htm >

Wow! Thanks Susie and Peter. That is really great stuff. It gives a real picture of what was going on in Geelong in those days. Lots of things to ponder and research. The Theatre Royal is one of them. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and contacts Susie. Jenny Coates Harkaway, Vic

Hi Pam, My 4xG-Grandfather EDWARD GORELL arrived in Geelong in December 1854 and was listed on the 1856 Electoral Roll as: Gorell, Edward - Fruiterer house lane off 11 Meyers St, North Geelong I have no idea if this address referred to his home and/or store. He was also described as a Cashier and Grocer on various documents and as a Draper on his 1860 death certificate. His daughter EMMA JANE SHUGG nee GORELL, was described as a storekeeper when she married for a second time in 1877 marriage certificate. Her first husband Henry Row Shugg had been a carpenter. I suspect Emma Jane may have taken an interest in her father's business following his 1860 death as her brother JAMES GORELL had preferred to become a PLUMBER The 1899-1900 Wise's Victoria Directory listed JAMES GORELL, plumber, 465 Moorabool St, Geelong. Emma Jane's will of 1913 was witnessed by a Messrs. ROBERT LEE and JAMES ROBERT PONTON both DRAPERS. In a declaration relating to probate on Emma Jane's will, Robert Lee wrote, " Emma Jane Shugg brought the Will into the shop where I and James Robert Ponton, the other witness...., carried on business as Drapers." Unfortunately the statement, made on the 3rd June 1914, does not note the address of the store Emma Jane's son HENRY ROW SHUGG Jr.of Latrobe Terrace, Newtown was also a Grocer & Fruiterer, c1914 . Apologies that my detail on these folks is fairly basic - I'd welcome any additonal information other Listers may be able to supply. Cheers, Brenda Families I'm researching: COTTRELL - STANTON - WALDIE - WILDE - SHEEHAN - GORELL - KENNEDY - CARBRY - SHORT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pam & Trevor Jennings" <tjennings@bigpond.com> To: <AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 5:10 PM Subject: [GEELONG] Geelong Storekeepers > The Geelong Family History Group magzine for October will feature Geelong storekeepers. As this is a far reaching topic, listers are cordially invited to send a wirite-up of their ancestors in Geelong who may have owned a business in the way of a shop - butchers, drapery, grocers, cafes, hairdressers, etc. The cut-off date for contributions will be Oct.1st.Thank you, Pam Jennings (editor)

Great work ........again Susie. Fran

Hi again, Another bit of information that might provide a lead on Charlie BROWN ....... Charlie's sister, Mary Ann BROWN, died at Rochester, Vic in 1908 aged 47. I'm 99% certain this must be the right one - he had a sister Mary Ann, right age, on BDM Index her parents are shown as George BROWN and Marianne BOWICKER (could definitely be Mary Anne BOUCHIER) and stated born in Geelong, and Charlie's sister was buried in the family plot in Geelong in December 1908. Is anyone familiar with newspapers etc. covering Rochester? I'm wondering about an obituary / death notice. Not sure why she might have been in Rochester? Might she have been a teacher? I'm not familiar with the Rochester area (definitely not Geelong & District!) Bye for now ......... Susie Z

Hi Folks, ATTENTION Jenny ........... Sometimes a subject captures the imagination and gets people in. I mentioned before that I'd bring this up at the Geelong Historical Society committee meeting last month and reported back on some more information. Well, Peter Alsop, President of the Geelong Historical Society has taken it a bit further and I've received a hand written letter and notes from him to pass on to the person researching Thomas WILTON ......... sometimes people get a free bonus, but perhaps a small donation to the Geelong Historical Society (this isn't to be confused with the Geelong Heritage Centre) mightn't go astray if this provides new information and is helpful. Anyway .......... Geelong Advertiser 23/3/1861 Reference to WILTON's Band of Theatre Royal Geelong Advertiser 14/9/1869 Concert given in Mechanics Institute for the benefit of Mr Tom WILTON known in the days of the Theatre Royal as "The father of the musical profession of Geelong." Geelong Advertiser 12/2/1870 Miss W.W. Browne would receive her pupils at Wilton Lodge, Lt Ryrie St. east of Yarra St. [not sure if this is connected but may be - SZ] Geelong Advertiser 3/6/1870 2nd Annual Ball held by Fishermen's Association at Temperance Hall (nearly all Geelong fishermen said to be teetotallers [and journalists stretched the truth??? - my comment, not Peter's!]. Music by WILTON & GOODALL. Geelong Advertiser 5/5/1871 Geelong Amateur Ethiopian Troupe - T. WILTON a member. Geelong Advertiser 30/12/1873 WILTON, Thomas - death at his residence Corio Terrace, next to Mack's Hotel, of Thomas WILTON, 52 years, for many years a Professor of Music in Geelong. 1858 Directory WILTON, T. Quadrille Office Malop St. east 1861 Directory Malop St. west to east, left hand side J. HOLMES, loan office WILTON & EDWARDS, musicians W. UPJOHN, fruiterer ("18 doors from East end" - Peter's note) M. NEYLON, Freemasons Hotel 1861 Directory under Musicians EDWARDS, Thomas, Bellerine St WILTON & EDWARDS, Malop St. east 1866-67 Directory Malop St. east from Moorabool St. left hand side IRVINE, Henry, master mariner TRAINER, Wm, bootmaker WILTON, T, musician UPJOHN, W, greengrocers Freemason's Hotel, Owen BRADY 1854 Directory - not listed 1856 Directory - not listed I believe that the Geelong Advertiser references are from Bill MORROW's Geelong Advertiser indexes with SUMMARIES of the actual articles. It is possible that more information appears in the actual newspapers which can be viewed on microfilm at Geelong Heritage Centre, Deakin University Waurn Ponds, State Library of Victoria, and National Library of Australia - not sure if available in other places. Hope this gives extra information and leads you Jenny! Have fun. Regards ...... Susie Z

If someone has answered this question already my apologies. Duneed is the Parish and Mt. Duneed is the area, I don't think there was ever a town it was just a locality. Caused lots of confusion in the early days of cemetery research, about the cemetery at Duneed which turned out to be at Mt.Moriac. Dianne Hughes

Hi Folks, I don't often ask for information on this Mailing List <vbg> so this is almost a new experience for me!! I was asked a casual question the other day on behalf of the Portarlington Business & Community Association (not sure of their official title these days) if I knew anything about a the person mentioned on a plaque at Portarlington ...... "A Tribute to the Late Charles G. BROWN in appreciation of Public Services 1928" To say this has snowballed is an absolute understatement and I'm asking anyone out there who may have access to odd indexes / sources etc. if they can add anything to the amazingly comprehensive bits we've already located ......... you'll need this summary to know if your reference to a C. BROWN, Charles BROWN etc. could be the same person!!!!!!! Charles Gideon BROWN born 1867, Chilwell, Geelong, S/O George BROWN and Mary Ann BOUCHIER. Charles died 11 Feb 1928 aged 60 and is buried in Geelong Eastern (have photo of grave). Have birth, marriage, death and burial references for his parents. Have birth, death and burial references for Charles and 6 of his seven siblings. Haven't found death or burial of brother George (b. 1863). Apart from George (unknown), neither Charles nor any of his siblings married - in other words, there appear to be NO descendants from this family. George spent four years in Queensland (not sure of the years) but down here he spent many years working for the shipping company Howard Smith & Co. He was their agent in Portarlington about 1897-99 before being posted to Melbourne for a period, and again from at least 1909 (possibly earlier) til his death in 1928. In 1909 he was also appointed Assistant Harbour Master at Portarlington and held both positions til his death in 1928. He was a dapper gentleman always wearing a bow tie, had a terrific singing voice, and was always larking around. He was sometimes referred to as the "Mayor" of Portarlington. Have lovely photo of him on the jetty at Portarlington and also copy of the photo in Solomons Pty Ltd book "Do You Remember?" where he is in the male chorus of "The Pirates of Penzance" in Geelong in 1912. Have references to him from the Annual Reports of the Geelong Harbour Trust and have asked the Australian National Maritime Museum for information - they have recently received records and memorabilia of Howard Smith Co from Wesfarmers Limited. Haven't yet had a chance to check the Geelong Advertiser for any references post 1900 (Bellarine Peninsula Summaries only to 1900) ......... there just aren't enough hours in the day to have fun!!!! Have checked Brownhill's "History of Geelong & Corio Bay" and YES I've checked my Consolidated Book Index (which was WONDERFULLY helpful! <vbg>) and the Bellarine Names Index. So, anything extra would be really appreciated. Many thanks in anticipation ...... Susie Z P.S. ..... I've fallen in love with Charlie!!!!!

Hi Liz, A lot really depends on the length of the article that you're copying - if it's a really large amount of text then you should really contact the author / publisher asking for permission. No matter which way you go, any reference to the text should include full details of the source - title, author, publisher etc. An alternative is to write the story of the voyage in your own words with small quotes from the text where the original words add real meaning / value to the description. Again you should quote details of the source. There is no problem sending an account to the other researcher but you need to warn them of the same issues. The other item to look at is when was this book published? A general rule of thumb is that copyright lasts "from the time the material is created until 50 years after the year of the creator's death" (from Australian Copyright Council web site - see below). This is only a GENERAL rule of thumb and there are plenty of exceptions. And even if the publication is no longer covered by copyright it is still important to fully acknowledge the source. The Australian Copyright Council web site is at ........ http://www.copyright.org.au/ The Information Sheets are excellent and you should look at the relevant ones. Although most people would say their web site was not for profit so the rules don't apply, by putting the information on a web page you are PUBLISHING it and therefore the rules do apply. Unfortunately some people then think they can copy your web page and use it freely as it is in the "Public Domain" - this is a serious and wrong interpretation of "public domain"! As I said, publishing on the web is no different to publishing in a book and so the same copyright rules apply. There is a major review of copyright laws applying to digital images and files being undertaken by Museums Australia, the major libraries and various other bodies - but it could be a long time before these issues are resolved, in the meantime apply the rules as laid out in the guidelines by the Australia Copyright Council. Hope that helps - a bit long and convoluted - but as you're probably aware, copyright issues are complicated AND important, so congratulations on taking them into account - a lot of people prefer to ignore them and do a lot of damage. Regards ...... Susie Z ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liz Denten" <lizbethd@optushome.com.au> To: <AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:43 AM Subject: [GEELONG] Copyright Laws > Hi Susie & Listers, > I found a very interesting account of my ancestors voyage in a book at the library. If I take information from the book and publish it, say on a webpage, am I in breach of the copyright ? I think I am, but the reason I ask is that another researcher has asked me to send them the details of the voyage, as it also involves one of their ancestors. This person intends to add it to their webpage, giving me the credit for it. I don't want to breach the copyright, especially as I have already written to the publisher about the information contained in the book. I'm sure Suzie knows the answer to this one but if anyone else has input, please feel free. Thanks, > Liz > BTW The voyage is that of the "British Empire" in 1849. If anyone had ancestors on this ship, the story is a very interesting one! >

Hi Susie & Listers, I found a very interesting account of my ancestors voyage in a book at the library. If I take information from the book and publish it, say on a webpage, am I in breach of the copyright ? I think I am, but the reason I ask is that another researcher has asked me to send them the details of the voyage, as it also involves one of their ancestors. This person intends to add it to their webpage, giving me the credit for it. I don't want to breach the copyright, especially as I have already written to the publisher about the information contained in the book. I'm sure Suzie knows the answer to this one but if anyone else has input, please feel free. Thanks, Liz BTW The voyage is that of the "British Empire" in 1849. If anyone had ancestors on this ship, the story is a very interesting one!

Let me know who you are looking for and I'll ask around for you. Maybe there are transcriptions somewhere. Next time we drive through Grong Grong I'll most definitely stop and look but we don't make the trip very often... maybe just once a year, so it may be a long time before you hear from me. I know what you mean about the gravestones too, having just been down to Buninyong and Creswick Cemeteries looking for my past. Buninyong is well looked after, a credit to the town but Creswick... I had a list of well over 20 grave sites and after stumbling around amid rubble and grass seeds for 2 hours, came home having found just 4. It is so sad that towns will allow their history to just crumble away to dust like that. And while I'm at it, if you really want to have a good cry over the state of headstones, just visit the Grovedale German Cemetery. So many of the headstones have fallen onto the ground and are in pieces. So much history lost. Lyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robyn Shaw" <mrshaw@bigpond.com> To: <AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 10:49 AM Subject: Re: [GEELONG] Dead & Buried in Geelong but not > well don't pass...tramp around among the long grass and cattle and find my > headstones....yeah right...they are not there...been washed away with > floods, whatever..shame. > > i could not find my great grandfather's grave at Croydon in far north qld. > so took a photo of an irish cross, fallen over and awful, but best i could > find...now my grandfather was buried there, would have had a cross like > this...i say...well...he MIGHT have had....again, yeah right... > robyn toowoomba. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "L Wilkinson" <gerryandlyn@dodo.com.au> > To: <AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:34 AM > Subject: Re: [GEELONG] Dead & Buried in Geelong but not > > > > Grong Grong is up my neck of the woods. It is a tiny township on the > Newell > > highway on the way to Narrandera. We pass through it every time we head > down > > south. > > > > :) Lyn > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Neil Campbell" <neils1@bigpond.net.au> > > > To: <AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 10:29 PM > > > Subject: Re: [GEELONG] Dead & Buried in Geelong but not > > > > > > > > > > As far as I know Grong Grong is NSW. > > > > Found this- > > > > > > > > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~ifhaa/ifhaa/marketplace/margglen/gr > > > onggrong.htm > > > > Fran > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.618 / Virus Database: 397 - Release Date: 3/9/2004 > > > > > > ==== AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT Mailing List ==== > > Geelong & District Churches : > > http://www.zades.com.au/geelong/gdchur.htm > > > > > > ==== AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT Mailing List ==== > Geelong & District Cemeteries : > http://www.zades.com.au/geelong/gdcem.htm > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.620 / Virus Database: 399 - Release Date: 3/11/2004

Hi Folks, Just in case you're referring to a more "local" place, there was a GONG GONG (not Grong Grong) in the Shire of Bungaree near Ballarat. Regards ....... Susie Z

Suzie, I didn't really want to know that, you know.... Bit like Wagga Wagga or Wagga..sometimes I hate family treeing.....robyn. toowoomba. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susie Zada" <szada@zades.com.au> To: <AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 10:03 AM Subject: [GEELONG] Grong Grong or Gong Gong > Hi Folks, > > Just in case you're referring to a more "local" place, there was a GONG > GONG (not Grong Grong) in the Shire of Bungaree near Ballarat. > > Regards ....... Susie Z > > > ==== AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT Mailing List ==== > Geelong Family History Group : > http://home.vicnet.net.au/~gfamhist/index.htm >

well don't pass...tramp around among the long grass and cattle and find my headstones....yeah right...they are not there...been washed away with floods, whatever..shame. i could not find my great grandfather's grave at Croydon in far north qld. so took a photo of an irish cross, fallen over and awful, but best i could find...now my grandfather was buried there, would have had a cross like this...i say...well...he MIGHT have had....again, yeah right... robyn toowoomba. ----- Original Message ----- From: "L Wilkinson" <gerryandlyn@dodo.com.au> To: <AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:34 AM Subject: Re: [GEELONG] Dead & Buried in Geelong but not > Grong Grong is up my neck of the woods. It is a tiny township on the Newell > highway on the way to Narrandera. We pass through it every time we head down > south. > > :) Lyn > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Neil Campbell" <neils1@bigpond.net.au> > > To: <AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 10:29 PM > > Subject: Re: [GEELONG] Dead & Buried in Geelong but not > > > > > > > As far as I know Grong Grong is NSW. > > > Found this- > > > > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~ifhaa/ifhaa/marketplace/margglen/gr > > onggrong.htm > > > Fran > > > > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.618 / Virus Database: 397 - Release Date: 3/9/2004 > > > ==== AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT Mailing List ==== > Geelong & District Churches : > http://www.zades.com.au/geelong/gdchur.htm >

Grong Grong is up my neck of the woods. It is a tiny township on the Newell highway on the way to Narrandera. We pass through it every time we head down south. :) Lyn > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Neil Campbell" <neils1@bigpond.net.au> > To: <AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 10:29 PM > Subject: Re: [GEELONG] Dead & Buried in Geelong but not > > > > As far as I know Grong Grong is NSW. > > Found this- > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~ifhaa/ifhaa/marketplace/margglen/gr > onggrong.htm > > Fran > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.618 / Virus Database: 397 - Release Date: 3/9/2004

thanks neil...robyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil Campbell" <neils1@bigpond.net.au> To: <AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [GEELONG] Dead & Buried in Geelong but not > As far as I know Grong Grong is NSW. > Found this- > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~ifhaa/ifhaa/marketplace/margglen/gr onggrong.htm > Fran > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robyn Shaw" <mrshaw@bigpond.com> > To: <AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 9:37 PM > Subject: Re: [GEELONG] Dead & Buried in Geelong but not > > > > I have Henry Spiers buried at Grong Grong...cannot find. > > His child, Emily West is also there....cannot find. > > Where do they go...heaven?? > > robyn. toowoomba. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Freddie Farnarkle" <farnakle@tpg.com.au> > > To: <AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:51 PM > > Subject: [GEELONG] Dead & Buried in Geelong but not > > > > > > > Hi Folks, > > > Long time lurker.... My ggdad's ( James Ryan) death cert says buried > > > Eastern Cem Geelong, but according to E.C. Record Search he's packed up > > and > > > moved!! They say he's not there!! Any suggestions appreciated. > > > Regards > > > Paul Ryan > > > > > > > > > ==== AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT Mailing List ==== > > > Geelong & District Surnames of Interest : > > > http://www.zades.com.au/geelong/gdname.htm > > > > > > > > > > > ==== AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT Mailing List ==== > > Geelong & District Research Centres & Museums : > > http://www.zades.com.au/geelong/gdresc.htm > > > > > > ==== AUS-VIC-GEELONG-DISTRICT Mailing List ==== > Geelong & District and Bellarine Indexes : > http://www.zades.com.au/geelong/gdbksrc1.asp > http://www.zades.com.au/bellhs/bpnmsrc1.asp >

Hi Susie, On seeing your mention of Keith Pescod's books, I just thought I'd add that my Great grandfather, Robert Beckett, was quoted from his account of the family's journey out to Melbourne, in both books. In fact, the title "Good food, bright fires & civility" is a direct quote. Beckett's diary is in the La Trobe Australian Manuscripts Collection at the State Library of Victoria, & I have yet to view it, although his other diary is in my possession at present. The diary of the voyage has been referred to by quite a number of authors, including Richard Broome's "Arriving", which you also mentioned. Cheers.....Wendy McLennan.