Hi all New to the list I hope someone is able to help as I have a bit of a brick wall here Charles W H THOPE pops up in Patricks Plains in NSW in the 1850s, married To Susannah Waters He is believed to be born 1830 in Tasmania. Some trees on Ancestry have him as son of Charles Thorpe and Martha Dudley who were convicts. I am not sure how to prove, disprove this one? I do need to find his true parents.. NB two of his sons were also in NSW police force. Most grateful for any ideas. Kind regards Marg O'Leary Hunter Valley NSW

Hi Marg, Its a possibility that Charles W H Thorpe may have been the son of Charles Thorpe and Martha Dudley. If Charles Jr was born circa 1830 then he may have been illegitimate as that pair didn't marry until 1832 - https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD36-1-2p38j2k Unfortunately can't seem to find a baptism for him in that time period either? If you look at the NSWs BDMs online you see in the index that Charles W H Thorpe's father is unidentified but mother is named as Martha. He's identified in the newspaper death notices as ex Inspector of police. https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search/result?3 The newspapers from 1892 have a Martha Thorpe who was mother to Inspector Thorpe...so I presume this is his mother? The online indexs reference for her is here - https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search/result?8 The family appear to have left VDL circa 1835. Charles Sr was an insolvent and in debtors prison just prior to this. He appears to have been a hotel proprietor at Newtown before things started to get bad. He seems to have got into more strife in NSW's for forging a promissory note. He then tried to flee to England on the "Sussanah" with his wife and child. However it turned out his real wife and child were at the place they resided (Mr McDonalds) and he was fleeing with a Mrs Williams? He was sentenced to life and transportation to Norfolk Island. He was housed in a hulk for a time and then escaped custody. They were still searching for him in 1840? Its of note too that a Martha Dudley had a daughter at New Norfolk in 1827 name Louisa - https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD32-1-1-p159j2k Whether she is the same Martha that married Charles Thorpe in 1832 I couldn't say but if she was it could be an indication of an illegitimate birth for Charles Jr. Not sure if that is helpful to your quest or not... Cheers, Peter On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:49 PM, marg <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi all > > > New to the list > > I hope someone is able to help as I have a bit of a brick wall here > > Charles W H THOPE pops up in Patricks Plains in NSW in the 1850s, married > To Susannah Waters > > He is believed to be born 1830 in Tasmania. > > Some trees on Ancestry have him as son of Charles Thorpe and Martha Dudley > who were convicts. > > I am not sure how to prove, disprove this one? I do need to find his true > parents.. > > NB two of his sons were also in NSW police force. > > Most grateful for any ideas. > > Kind regards > > Marg O'Leary > Hunter Valley > NSW > > > > _______________________________________________ > AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ > Contact Admin [email protected] > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/aus-tasm > [email protected]/ > > Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/aus-tasm > [email protected]/ > > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community >

Hi Peter thank you so much for that very comprehensive answer. Quite excited to think that his parents may be confirmed. It does sound correct doesn't it? What I am hoping to find (pot of gold, end of rainbow) is a Thorpe relative in the present. George Horace Thorpe b 1893 NSW died at Fromelles France 19 July 1916. It is possible he is one of those from the mass grave found in 2008 (250 Aussies buried by the Germans straight after the battle.) 159 have now been identified due to family members DNA. The family tree back to Charles Thorpe born 1830 Hobart has no male Thorpes now living, So back to his father ( the convict,) wondering if this convict had any other male children, would there be any records of this? otherwise have to find the convicts parents (but then chances are getting pretty low then.) Thanks again Marg see Fromelles Association of Australia on Facebook Fromelles Project Australian army -----Original Message----- From: Peter Oakley <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, 21 June 2018 1:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [AUS-Tas] Re: Charles THORPE b 1830 Hobart Hi Marg, Its a possibility that Charles W H Thorpe may have been the son of Charles Thorpe and Martha Dudley. If Charles Jr was born circa 1830 then he may have been illegitimate as that pair didn't marry until 1832 - https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD36-1-2p38j2k Unfortunately can't seem to find a baptism for him in that time period either? If you look at the NSWs BDMs online you see in the index that Charles W H Thorpe's father is unidentified but mother is named as Martha. He's identified in the newspaper death notices as ex Inspector of police. https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search/result?3 The newspapers from 1892 have a Martha Thorpe who was mother to Inspector Thorpe...so I presume this is his mother? The online indexs reference for her is here - https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search/result?8 The family appear to have left VDL circa 1835. Charles Sr was an insolvent and in debtors prison just prior to this. He appears to have been a hotel proprietor at Newtown before things started to get bad. He seems to have got into more strife in NSW's for forging a promissory note. He then tried to flee to England on the "Sussanah" with his wife and child. However it turned out his real wife and child were at the place they resided (Mr McDonalds) and he was fleeing with a Mrs Williams? He was sentenced to life and transportation to Norfolk Island. He was housed in a hulk for a time and then escaped custody. They were still searching for him in 1840? Its of note too that a Martha Dudley had a daughter at New Norfolk in 1827 name Louisa - https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD32-1-1-p159j2k Whether she is the same Martha that married Charles Thorpe in 1832 I couldn't say but if she was it could be an indication of an illegitimate birth for Charles Jr. Not sure if that is helpful to your quest or not... Cheers, Peter On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:49 PM, marg <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi all > > > New to the list > > I hope someone is able to help as I have a bit of a brick wall here > > Charles W H THOPE pops up in Patricks Plains in NSW in the 1850s, > married To Susannah Waters > > He is believed to be born 1830 in Tasmania. > > Some trees on Ancestry have him as son of Charles Thorpe and Martha > Dudley who were convicts. > > I am not sure how to prove, disprove this one? I do need to find his > true parents.. > > NB two of his sons were also in NSW police force. > > Most grateful for any ideas. > > Kind regards > > Marg O'Leary > Hunter Valley > NSW > > > > _______________________________________________ > AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ > Contact Admin [email protected] > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > > Unsubscribe > https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/aus-tasm > [email protected]/ > > Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/aus-tasm > [email protected]/ > > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal > RootsWeb community > _______________________________________________ AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ Contact Admin [email protected] _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/[email protected] m/ Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected] m/ Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Hi Peter and Marg, I also had a look at Charles and Martha yesterday and found some more bits and pieces, before getting lost in researching my rellie Robert Frost, who established and ran the Rose and Crown before moving to Victoria, and before Charles Thorpe took it over. I'll insert my material into Peter's comprehensive file. -----Original Message----- From: Peter Oakley [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, 21 June 2018 1:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [AUS-Tas] Re: Charles THORPE b 1830 Hobart Hi Marg, Its a possibility that Charles W H Thorpe may have been the son of Charles Thorpe and Martha Dudley. If Charles Jr was born circa 1830 then he may have been illegitimate as that pair didn't marry until 1832 - https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD36-1-2p38j2k Unfortunately can't seem to find a baptism for him in that time period either? If you look at the NSWs BDMs online you see in the index that Charles W H Thorpe's father is unidentified but mother is named as Martha. He's identified in the newspaper death notices as ex Inspector of police. https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search/result?3 The newspapers from 1892 have a Martha Thorpe who was mother to Inspector Thorpe...so I presume this is his mother? The online indexs reference for her is here - https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search/result?8 Carol: "Martha Thorpe left VDL with her child (Louisa) in 1829: SHIP NEWS SAILED FROM HOBART TOWN. July 7. - The barque St. George, for Sydney Captain George Findlay. with 2,000 bushels of wheat on account of His Majesty's Government and 1,500 bushels ditto, shipped by Mr. George Whitcomb, and part of her import cargo. Passengers,— Mr. and Mrs. George Whitcomb, Mrs. Chapman and son, Messrs. James Coles, William Smith, James Murdoch, David Wllcox, Martha Dudley and child. - Launceston Advertiser (Tas.), 13 July 1829 Whether she is the same woman who married Charles Snr. is an unknown, but seems probable to me." The family appear to have left VDL circa 1835. Charles Sr was an insolvent and in debtors prison just prior to this. He appears to have been a hotel proprietor at Newtown before things started to get bad. Carol: "...charged him with knowingly harbouring a constable while on duty. It appeared that the constable was stationed somewhere near Austin's Ferry, and had come into town to receive his money, and had taken up his lodgings at Mr. Thorpe's public-house. The Chief Constable deposed that it was the custom for constables coming into town on duty to provide themselves with lodging, and that they held no memorandum authorising them to do so. For the defence, it appeared that the constable told Mr. Thorpe he had come into town on duty, and requested to be furnished with a bed, which was complied with; and on the following morning he went away, but returned towards the evening, and desired to have another bed, with which he was furnished. Mr. Thorpe contended that it was frequently the practice of constables to remain in town a week or two at a time as witnesses, or on other duty; and while in town, by the evidence of the Chief Constable, they were allowed to provide for themselves ; how, therefore, was it possible for publicans to contradict a constable, who chose to say he was on duty? Mr. Mason said, that under such circumstances they ought to be furnished with an authority, signed by the Chief Constable, for remaining in town; and he desired that they might in future be so furnished.—Fined in the lowest penalty of 10s. and costs. - Colonial Times (Hobart, Tas.), 11 November 1834 The following Transfers of Licences were granted:- Charles Thorpe, to Thomas Wells,, Rose and Crown, New Town Road; - Colonial Times (Hobart, Tas.), 3 February 1835 Notice. In the Matter of Charles Thorpe, a Prisoner confined for debt, in His Majesty's Gaol, at Hobart Town. NOTICE is hereby given, that the above-named Prisoner did, on the tenth day of April, instant, present his Petition to the Supreme Court of Van Diemen's Land, praying for relief, pursuant to the Provisions of an Act, entitled an ' Act, for extending the Act lately passed, for the Relief of Insolvent Debtors, to all Debtors now in custody for debt,'- True Colonist Van Diemen's Land Political Despatch, and Agricultural and Commercial... (Hobart Town, Tas. ), 24 April 1835 Hobart Town Police Report. Saturday, June 16. Nearly all the day was occupied in investigating the charge against William Scott... [This was something after the manner of the notorious Charles Thorpe, formerly employed at Government House, who, after trying every experiment to obtain indulgence, at last pretended to have been beaten at the back part of Government House, by persons, who, as he stated, he believed intended to rob the house. Thorpe succeeded, and obtained his indulgence -took a public-house in Hobart Town, the Rose and Crown-became insolvent-then went to Sydney, and there got transported for forgery, and afterwards absconded into the bush.-ED.} - Colonial Times (Hobart, Tas.), 19 June 1838" Best wishes, Carol Brill.

Thank you also Carol, this is really good news Family trees on Ancestry give parents for Charles the convict Joseph Thorpe and Frances Naylor of Rutland However can't be sure that Charles was the father of Martha's son? But have to presume if that is the only option. Cheers M -----Original Message----- From: Carol Brill <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, 21 June 2018 5:51 PM To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: [AUS-Tas] Re: Charles THORPE b 1830 Hobart Hi Peter and Marg, I also had a look at Charles and Martha yesterday and found some more bits and pieces, before getting lost in researching my rellie Robert Frost, who established and ran the Rose and Crown before moving to Victoria, and before Charles Thorpe took it over. I'll insert my material into Peter's comprehensive file. -----Original Message----- From: Peter Oakley [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, 21 June 2018 1:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [AUS-Tas] Re: Charles THORPE b 1830 Hobart Hi Marg, Its a possibility that Charles W H Thorpe may have been the son of Charles Thorpe and Martha Dudley. If Charles Jr was born circa 1830 then he may have been illegitimate as that pair didn't marry until 1832 - https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD36-1-2p38j2k Unfortunately can't seem to find a baptism for him in that time period either? If you look at the NSWs BDMs online you see in the index that Charles W H Thorpe's father is unidentified but mother is named as Martha. He's identified in the newspaper death notices as ex Inspector of police. https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search/result?3 The newspapers from 1892 have a Martha Thorpe who was mother to Inspector Thorpe...so I presume this is his mother? The online indexs reference for her is here - https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search/result?8 Carol: "Martha Thorpe left VDL with her child (Louisa) in 1829: SHIP NEWS SAILED FROM HOBART TOWN. July 7. - The barque St. George, for Sydney Captain George Findlay. with 2,000 bushels of wheat on account of His Majesty's Government and 1,500 bushels ditto, shipped by Mr. George Whitcomb, and part of her import cargo. Passengers,— Mr. and Mrs. George Whitcomb, Mrs. Chapman and son, Messrs. James Coles, William Smith, James Murdoch, David Wllcox, Martha Dudley and child. - Launceston Advertiser (Tas.), 13 July 1829 Whether she is the same woman who married Charles Snr. is an unknown, but seems probable to me." The family appear to have left VDL circa 1835. Charles Sr was an insolvent and in debtors prison just prior to this. He appears to have been a hotel proprietor at Newtown before things started to get bad. Carol: "...charged him with knowingly harbouring a constable while on duty. It appeared that the constable was stationed somewhere near Austin's Ferry, and had come into town to receive his money, and had taken up his lodgings at Mr. Thorpe's public-house. The Chief Constable deposed that it was the custom for constables coming into town on duty to provide themselves with lodging, and that they held no memorandum authorising them to do so. For the defence, it appeared that the constable told Mr. Thorpe he had come into town on duty, and requested to be furnished with a bed, which was complied with; and on the following morning he went away, but returned towards the evening, and desired to have another bed, with which he was furnished. Mr. Thorpe contended that it was frequently the practice of constables to remain in town a week or two at a time as witnesses, or on other duty; and while in town, by the evidence of the Chief Constable, they were allowed to provide for themselves ; how, therefore, was it possible for publicans to contradict a constable, who chose to say he was on duty? Mr. Mason said, that under such circumstances they ought to be furnished with an authority, signed by the Chief Constable, for remaining in town; and he desired that they might in future be so furnished.—Fined in the lowest penalty of 10s. and costs. - Colonial Times (Hobart, Tas.), 11 November 1834 The following Transfers of Licences were granted:- Charles Thorpe, to Thomas Wells,, Rose and Crown, New Town Road; - Colonial Times (Hobart, Tas.), 3 February 1835 Notice. In the Matter of Charles Thorpe, a Prisoner confined for debt, in His Majesty's Gaol, at Hobart Town. NOTICE is hereby given, that the above-named Prisoner did, on the tenth day of April, instant, present his Petition to the Supreme Court of Van Diemen's Land, praying for relief, pursuant to the Provisions of an Act, entitled an ' Act, for extending the Act lately passed, for the Relief of Insolvent Debtors, to all Debtors now in custody for debt,'- True Colonist Van Diemen's Land Political Despatch, and Agricultural and Commercial... (Hobart Town, Tas. ), 24 April 1835 Hobart Town Police Report. Saturday, June 16. Nearly all the day was occupied in investigating the charge against William Scott... [This was something after the manner of the notorious Charles Thorpe, formerly employed at Government House, who, after trying every experiment to obtain indulgence, at last pretended to have been beaten at the back part of Government House, by persons, who, as he stated, he believed intended to rob the house. Thorpe succeeded, and obtained his indulgence -took a public-house in Hobart Town, the Rose and Crown-became insolvent-then went to Sydney, and there got transported for forgery, and afterwards absconded into the bush.-ED.} - Colonial Times (Hobart, Tas.), 19 June 1838" Best wishes, Carol Brill. _______________________________________________ AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ Contact Admin [email protected] _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/[email protected]/ Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/ Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community