Hi Listers, This question may have a very logical answer but I thought I would call on the collective wisdom and experience of my peers to advise me. Who helped convicts who were illiterate? If they couldn't read or write to their loved ones (back in the old country) who helped them and who in the old country would read the letter to their illiterate spouse and children?? My gg grandfather was illiterate as was his wife and probably the children. As I am still trying to find out what happened to them all - I wondered how in the dickens did they know, understand what was happening to their father - how did they communicate?? He eventually got a "Ticket of Leave" - and I wondered how did they know he was free? From the document I saw online he still maintained he was married with two children. I haven't found the family in the colony so I am still searching. They didn't arrive on the ship with him. Many thanks Karen Kestigian

I’ll let you know when I’ve got the date set! Sent from my iPhone > On 1 May 2019, at 6:57 pm, David Cripps <cripps_nbn@iinet.net.au> wrote: > >> On 01-May-19 3:21 PM, Margaret Watson wrote: >> Hi David, >> >> When I work out how to sit down with my two convicts and have a chat, I'll >> ask you along! >> >> Margaret. >> > > Please do Margaret, and don't forget the digital voice recorder, and > I'll bring the hors d'oeuvres and red wine. > > > Cheers - Dave > > -- > David Cripps | cripps_nbn@iinet.net.au > Hobart, Tasmania > > _______________________________________________ > AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://sites.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ > Contact Admin AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

I'll start the ball rolling. There were many convicts who were literate and numerate and I would guess that they assisted others with writing skills. Back home, some of the local shopkeepers would assist in the reading of the letters. People often listened to the messages and then passed on the news. That was the power of listening! Chris In Melbourne -----Original Message----- From: K Market Associates [mailto:kma-pr@kma-pr.com.au] Sent: Monday, 29 April 2019 5:12 PM To: aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-Tas] Ref: Literacy Hi Listers, This question may have a very logical answer but I thought I would call on the collective wisdom and experience of my peers to advise me. Who helped convicts who were illiterate? If they couldn't read or write to their loved ones (back in the old country) who helped them and who in the old country would read the letter to their illiterate spouse and children?? My gg grandfather was illiterate as was his wife and probably the children. As I am still trying to find out what happened to them all - I wondered how in the dickens did they know, understand what was happening to their father - how did they communicate?? He eventually got a "Ticket of Leave" - and I wondered how did they know he was free? From the document I saw online he still maintained he was married with two children. I haven't found the family in the colony so I am still searching. They didn't arrive on the ship with him. Many thanks Karen Kestigian _______________________________________________ AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://sites.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ Contact Admin AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Thanks Chris. Sent from my iPhone > On 29 Apr 2019, at 6:01 pm, Chris Kealy <ckealy@ozemail.com.au> wrote: > > I'll start the ball rolling. There were many convicts who were literate and > numerate and I would guess that they assisted others with writing skills. > Back home, some of the local shopkeepers would assist in the reading of the > letters. > People often listened to the messages and then passed on the news. That was > the power of listening! > Chris > In Melbourne > > -----Original Message----- > From: K Market Associates [mailto:kma-pr@kma-pr.com.au] > Sent: Monday, 29 April 2019 5:12 PM > To: aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com > Subject: [AUS-Tas] Ref: Literacy > > Hi Listers, > > > > This question may have a very logical answer but I thought I would call on > the collective wisdom and experience of my peers to advise me. > > > > Who helped convicts who were illiterate? > > > > If they couldn't read or write to their loved ones (back in the old country) > who helped them and who in the old country would read the letter to their > illiterate spouse and children?? > > > > My gg grandfather was illiterate as was his wife and probably the children. > As I am still trying to find out what happened to them all - I wondered how > in the dickens did they know, understand what was happening to their father > - how did they communicate?? > > > > He eventually got a "Ticket of Leave" - and I wondered how did they know he > was free? From the document I saw online he still maintained he was married > with two children. I haven't found the family in the colony so I am still > searching. They didn't arrive on the ship with him. > > > > Many thanks > > Karen Kestigian > > > _______________________________________________ > AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://sites.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ > Contact Admin AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe > https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community > > _______________________________________________ > AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://sites.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ > Contact Admin AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Further to Chris' reply The convicts did have classes on the voyage out, but how much they learnt is anyone's guess. Some of the Irish convicts were literate but not in English, so were considered 'illiterate'. Yes, there were letter writers for those convict who needed that service and came, possibly, at a 'cost'.   Similarly there would be some one to read the letters, if they indeed received them. Convicts could, once they could keep themselves and perhaps saved some money, apply for their family to come out.   I am sure if they were illiterate then, there would have been someone at the police office or elsewhere to help. What do other listers think? Maree On 29/04/2019 5:12 pm, K Market Associates wrote: > Hi Listers, > > > > This question may have a very logical answer but I thought I would call on > the collective wisdom and experience of my peers to advise me. > > > > Who helped convicts who were illiterate? > > > > If they couldn't read or write to their loved ones (back in the old country) > who helped them and who in the old country would read the letter to their > illiterate spouse and children?? > > > > My gg grandfather was illiterate as was his wife and probably the children. > As I am still trying to find out what happened to them all - I wondered how > in the dickens did they know, understand what was happening to their father > - how did they communicate?? > > > > He eventually got a "Ticket of Leave" - and I wondered how did they know he > was free? From the document I saw online he still maintained he was married > with two children. I haven't found the family in the colony so I am still > searching. They didn't arrive on the ship with him. > > > > Many thanks > > Karen Kestigian > > > _______________________________________________ > AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://sites.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ > Contact Admin AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community >

Thank you so much. Cheers Karen Sent from my iPhone > On 29 Apr 2019, at 6:39 pm, Maree Ring <mareering@gmail.com> wrote: > > Further to Chris' reply > > The convicts did have classes on the voyage out, but how much they learnt is anyone's guess. > > Some of the Irish convicts were literate but not in English, so were considered 'illiterate'. > > Yes, there were letter writers for those convict who needed that service and came, possibly, at a 'cost'. Similarly there would be some one to read the letters, if they indeed received them. > > Convicts could, once they could keep themselves and perhaps saved some money, apply for their family to come out. I am sure if they were illiterate then, there would have been someone at the police office or elsewhere to help. > > What do other listers think? > > Maree > >> On 29/04/2019 5:12 pm, K Market Associates wrote: >> Hi Listers, >> >> >> This question may have a very logical answer but I thought I would call on >> the collective wisdom and experience of my peers to advise me. >> >> >> Who helped convicts who were illiterate? >> >> >> If they couldn't read or write to their loved ones (back in the old country) >> who helped them and who in the old country would read the letter to their >> illiterate spouse and children?? >> >> >> My gg grandfather was illiterate as was his wife and probably the children. >> As I am still trying to find out what happened to them all - I wondered how >> in the dickens did they know, understand what was happening to their father >> - how did they communicate?? >> >> >> He eventually got a "Ticket of Leave" - and I wondered how did they know he >> was free? From the document I saw online he still maintained he was married >> with two children. I haven't found the family in the colony so I am still >> searching. They didn't arrive on the ship with him. >> >> >> Many thanks >> >> Karen Kestigian >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://sites.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ >> Contact Admin AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >> Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com >> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community >> > > _______________________________________________ > AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://sites.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ > Contact Admin AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

On 29-Apr-19 6:39 PM, Maree Ring wrote: > > What do other listers think? I have thought about this one quite a bit, as I had two convict brothers out here, Thomas Cripps, arrived on the Mangles in 1835 to commence a 7 years sentence, and his brother (and my GG Grandfather) William Cripps arrived on the Anson in 1844, to serve his ten year sentence. William claimed in his Conduct Record that he could read & write, however his Indent suggests he could only read. I should mention that William Cripps received his Certificate of Freedom on 13th Dec 1852. Now I've been lucky enough to unearth some family letters that William and his wife Eliza in Hobart received from William's brother, Richard Cripps in New York in 1862, at the height of their Civil War in the United States.  That letter from Richard is absolutely full of emotion, as the whole family, both at home in Brighton, Sussex, and those in New York State had long thought that William had died, as they'd not heard from him at all, and in this letter, Richard claims to have had news from his sister & mother in Brighton, Sussex to the effect that William was indeed alive.  Richard's relief was palpable, and that is expressed clearly in the first few sentences. In 1862 William Cripps was renting a small bakery at 3 Barrack street in Hobart, right next door to Swains Foundry, and didn't make his move to Hampden Road, Battery Point until 1864, but all these letters were kept by Eliza Cripps and tied neatly into a bundle with a red ribbon.  They appeared to have been rarely looked at, stashed in the back of an old wardrobe I understand until my cousin and I poured over their contents 155 years later. The family emotion in these letters was so raw; I think illiteracy or not surely wouldn't be a barrier, as in circumstances like this this you'd move heaven and earth to find someone to firstly read that letter, then quickly respond by any means possible.  I suspect in this instance, William and his wife Eliza had enough literacy to deal with the letters themselves, and a healthy correspondence ensued between Tasmania, New York & Sussex.  Of course I may be a little naive, since back then William had an important trade as a Baker, and by 1862 his circumstances had improved somewhat compared to his convict days, so having his Freedom, makes it hard to compare the same circumstances to a still serving convict. Call it karma or maybe just a healthy dose of coincidences, but I did track down living descendants in NY, and one of them had a large sea chest full of Cripps family papers and an old (very old) family photo album. To cut to the chase, in that photo album was several pictures of the Cripps family, taken in 1862 at Battery Point, all nicely labeled to make identification possible.   That album has now been gifted to myself, where it's safely stored in a fire-proof safe, but the sheer fact that these much traveled photos have returned home, along with other family papers, shows the power of letter writing, and how families can be re-connected again through correspondence, and no doubt a healthy dose of patience waiting for the ships to arrive in port with the mail.  Geoffrey Blainey had a book published in 1966 entitled  "The Tyranny of Distance"  and I often think of that title and smile when I think of my own family's much traveled photos and letters. I've tried to be brief in my explanation as there were many twists and turns to this story, but I liked the topic of this thread, but then wondered how I would respond. Cheers - David Cripps in Hobart -- David Cripps | cripps_nbn@iinet.net.au Hobart, Tasmania

What a wonderful story, David. You are so lucky to find such a connection to your enterprising Cripps ancestors. I often wonder about the newspaper notifications (in very small print) of Tickets of Leave, Conditional Pardons, etc being granted and certificates having to be collected. Also those notices requiring convicts to turn up for musters. People did not have the papers delivered like we have today, so how were they expected to know about these public announcements? Was it left to the employers or overseers to inform those working for them? I've read where a convict assigned at Oatlands had to walk to Hobart to collect his Free Certificate and he could have been assigned at George Town at the other end of the island. This fellow WAS literate, but most weren't. I imagine many of these certificates were never collected and some would not have known when their time was up - especially when early freedoms were granted by the Queen for example to mark a special date or event. I guess it's a bit like today where government departments/councils/bureaucrats/banks, etc just assume everyone has a computer / email access / mobile phone and know how to use internet banking, etc so many are disadvantaged - like our poor old ancestors who were illiterate. However, it's amazing how so-called illiterate people are able to compensate - a matter of survival, I guess. Still wondering.....Lorraine.

On 29-Apr-19 10:38 PM, Lorraine Wootton wrote: > > I often wonder about the newspaper notifications (in very small print) > of Tickets of Leave, Conditional Pardons, etc being granted and > certificates having to be collected. > > Also those notices requiring convicts to turn up for musters. > > People did not have the papers delivered like we have today, so how > were they expected to know about these public announcements? > Was it left to the employers or overseers to inform those working for > them? I've been thinking on this for a day or so, and you're right of course, how practically did this happen Lorraine? If you were a Ticket of Leave holder for example, did you receive communication from the authorities, or more likely it was your own responsibility to scan the Gazette regularly. But for those with a TL, your employers were known and recorded, so perhaps notification might have occurred through this means. In my case, my William Cripps was freed in 1852, and I'm aware he did have convict employees in his bakery after this, so maybe he did show a bit of empathy in their direction.  I say "maybe" since I'm aware of one story handed down when one of these employees forgot/failed/didn't bother to feed the horses that particular night, so deliveries the next day were delayed; Apparently William had that convict round the throat in a choke hold he was that enraged. Funny the things that are handed down isn't it<g>. But I suppose the future date of your freedom might be imprinted on your brain, and then of course a CP might come your way a bit earlier if you behaved, or provided some service to the authorities.  Then of course I'd ask, did my William Cripps keep his certificate of freedom, or did his descendants chuck it out a bit further down the track, and almost certainly did so after he died in 1888. There's many reasons why I'd love to sit down with my William Cripps and share a cuppa and a yarn. Cheers - David Cripps -- David Cripps | cripps_nbn@iinet.net.au Hobart, Tasmania

Hi David, When I work out how to sit down with my two convicts and have a chat, I'll ask you along! Margaret. On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 12:48 PM David Cripps <cripps_nbn@iinet.net.au> wrote: > On 29-Apr-19 10:38 PM, Lorraine Wootton wrote: > > > > I often wonder about the newspaper notifications (in very small print) > > of Tickets of Leave, Conditional Pardons, etc being granted and > > certificates having to be collected. > > > > Also those notices requiring convicts to turn up for musters. > > > > People did not have the papers delivered like we have today, so how > > were they expected to know about these public announcements? > > Was it left to the employers or overseers to inform those working for > > them? > > I've been thinking on this for a day or so, and you're right of course, > how practically did this happen Lorraine? > > If you were a Ticket of Leave holder for example, did you receive > communication from the authorities, or more likely it was your own > responsibility to scan the Gazette regularly. But for those with a TL, > your employers were known and recorded, so perhaps notification might > have occurred through this means. In my case, my William Cripps was > freed in 1852, and I'm aware he did have convict employees in his bakery > after this, so maybe he did show a bit of empathy in their direction. I > say "maybe" since I'm aware of one story handed down when one of these > employees forgot/failed/didn't bother to feed the horses that particular > night, so deliveries the next day were delayed; Apparently William had > that convict round the throat in a choke hold he was that enraged. Funny > the things that are handed down isn't it<g>. > > But I suppose the future date of your freedom might be imprinted on your > brain, and then of course a CP might come your way a bit earlier if you > behaved, or provided some service to the authorities. Then of course > I'd ask, did my William Cripps keep his certificate of freedom, or did > his descendants chuck it out a bit further down the track, and almost > certainly did so after he died in 1888. > > There's many reasons why I'd love to sit down with my William Cripps and > share a cuppa and a yarn. > > > Cheers - David Cripps > > > -- > David Cripps | cripps_nbn@iinet.net.au > Hobart, Tasmania > > _______________________________________________ > AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://sites.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ > Contact Admin AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe > https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community >

On 01-May-19 3:21 PM, Margaret Watson wrote: > Hi David, > > When I work out how to sit down with my two convicts and have a chat, I'll > ask you along! > > Margaret. > Please do Margaret, and don't forget the digital voice recorder, and I'll bring the hors d'oeuvres and red wine. Cheers - Dave -- David Cripps | cripps_nbn@iinet.net.au Hobart, Tasmania

Thanks for sharing your family story David, I enjoyed that. Edie McArthur ------ Original Message ------ From: "David Cripps" <cripps_nbn@iinet.net.au> To: aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, 29 Apr, 2019 At 5:02 AM Subject: [AUS-Tas] Re: Ref: Literacy On 29-Apr-19 6:39 PM, Maree Ring wrote: > > What do other listers think? I have thought about this one quite a bit, as I had two convict brothers out here, Thomas Cripps, arrived on the Mangles in 1835 to commence a 7 years sentence, and his brother (and my GG Grandfather) William Cripps arrived on the Anson in 1844, to serve his ten year sentence. William claimed in his Conduct Record that he could read & write, however his Indent suggests he could only read. I should mention that William Cripps received his Certificate of Freedom on 13th Dec 1852. Now I've been lucky enough to unearth some family letters that William and his wife Eliza in Hobart received from William's brother, Richard Cripps in New York in 1862, at the height of their Civil War in the United States.  That letter from Richard is absolutely full of emotion, as the whole family, both at home in Brighton, Sussex, and those in New York State had long thought that William had died, as they'd not heard from him at all, and in this letter, Richard claims to have had news from his sister & mother in Brighton, Sussex to the effect that William was indeed alive.  Richard's relief was palpable, and that is expressed clearly in the first few sentences. In 1862 William Cripps was renting a small bakery at 3 Barrack street in Hobart, right next door to Swains Foundry, and didn't make his move to Hampden Road, Battery Point until 1864, but all these letters were kept by Eliza Cripps and tied neatly into a bundle with a red ribbon.  They appeared to have been rarely looked at, stashed in the back of an old wardrobe I understand until my cousin and I poured over their contents 155 years later. The family emotion in these letters was so raw; I think illiteracy or not surely wouldn't be a barrier, as in circumstances like this this you'd move heaven and earth to find someone to firstly read that letter, then quickly respond by any means possible.  I suspect in this instance, William and his wife Eliza had enough literacy to deal with the letters themselves, and a healthy correspondence ensued between Tasmania, New York & Sussex.  Of course I may be a little naive, since back then William had an important trade as a Baker, and by 1862 his circumstances had improved somewhat compared to his convict days, so having his Freedom, makes it hard to compare the same circumstances to a still serving convict. Call it karma or maybe just a healthy dose of coincidences, but I did track down living descendants in NY, and one of them had a large sea chest full of Cripps family papers and an old (very old) family photo album. To cut to the chase, in that photo album was several pictures of the Cripps family, taken in 1862 at Battery Point, all nicely labeled to make identification possible.   That album has now been gifted to myself, where it's safely stored in a fire-proof safe, but the sheer fact that these much traveled photos have returned home, along with other family papers, shows the power of letter writing, and how families can be re-connected again through correspondence, and no doubt a healthy dose of patience waiting for the ships to arrive in port with the mail.  Geoffrey Blainey had a book published in 1966 entitled  "The Tyranny of Distance"  and I often think of that title and smile when I think of my own family's much traveled photos and letters. I've tried to be brief in my explanation as there were many twists and turns to this story, but I liked the topic of this thread, but then wondered how I would respond. Cheers - David Cripps in Hobart -- David Cripps | cripps_nbn@iinet.net.au Hobart, Tasmania _______________________________________________ AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://sites.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ Contact Admin AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Dear Maree, Karen and list, Yes I thought there were people who, for a few pence wrote letters for those who were illiterate in those days, not only convicts but others as well. Regards Irene Subject: [AUS-Tas] Re: Ref: Literacy Further to Chris' reply The convicts did have classes on the voyage out, but how much they learnt is anyone's guess. Some of the Irish convicts were literate but not in English, so were considered 'illiterate'. Yes, there were letter writers for those convict who needed that service and came, possibly, at a 'cost'. Similarly there would be some one to read the letters, if they indeed received them. Convicts could, once they could keep themselves and perhaps saved some money, apply for their family to come out. I am sure if they were illiterate then, there would have been someone at the police office or elsewhere to help. What do other listers think? Maree On 29/04/2019 5:12 pm, K Market Associates wrote: > Hi Listers, > > > > This question may have a very logical answer but I thought I would > call on the collective wisdom and experience of my peers to advise me. > > > > Who helped convicts who were illiterate? > > > > If they couldn't read or write to their loved ones (back in the old > country) who helped them and who in the old country would read the > letter to their illiterate spouse and children?? > > > > My gg grandfather was illiterate as was his wife and probably the children. > As I am still trying to find out what happened to them all - I > wondered how in the dickens did they know, understand what was > happening to their father > - how did they communicate?? > > > > He eventually got a "Ticket of Leave" - and I wondered how did they > know he was free? From the document I saw online he still maintained > he was married with two children. I haven't found the family in the > colony so I am still searching. They didn't arrive on the ship with him. > > > > Many thanks > > Karen Kestigian --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Priests would also read/write mail for parishioners On Tue, 30 Apr 2019 at 01:38, <irene.schaffer@bigpond.com> wrote: > Dear Maree, Karen and list, Yes I thought there were people who, for a few > pence wrote letters for those who were illiterate in those days, not only > convicts but others as well. > > Regards > > Irene > > Subject: [AUS-Tas] Re: Ref: Literacy > > Further to Chris' reply > > The convicts did have classes on the voyage out, but how much they learnt > is anyone's guess. > > Some of the Irish convicts were literate but not in English, so were > considered 'illiterate'. > > Yes, there were letter writers for those convict who needed that service > and came, possibly, at a 'cost'. Similarly there would be some one to > read the letters, if they indeed received them. > > Convicts could, once they could keep themselves and perhaps saved some > money, apply for their family to come out. I am sure if they were > illiterate then, there would have been someone at the police office or > elsewhere to help. > > What do other listers think? > > Maree > > On 29/04/2019 5:12 pm, K Market Associates wrote: > > Hi Listers, > > > > > > > > This question may have a very logical answer but I thought I would > > call on the collective wisdom and experience of my peers to advise me. > > > > > > > > Who helped convicts who were illiterate? > > > > > > > > If they couldn't read or write to their loved ones (back in the old > > country) who helped them and who in the old country would read the > > letter to their illiterate spouse and children?? > > > > > > > > My gg grandfather was illiterate as was his wife and probably the > children. > > As I am still trying to find out what happened to them all - I > > wondered how in the dickens did they know, understand what was > > happening to their father > > - how did they communicate?? > > > > > > > > He eventually got a "Ticket of Leave" - and I wondered how did they > > know he was free? From the document I saw online he still maintained > > he was married with two children. I haven't found the family in the > > colony so I am still searching. They didn't arrive on the ship with him. > > > > > > > > Many thanks > > > > Karen Kestigian > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > _______________________________________________ > AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://sites.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ > Contact Admin AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe > https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community >

Thanks Irene .....scribes were making a living. Cheers Karen Sent from my iPhone > On 30 Apr 2019, at 11:38 am, <irene.schaffer@bigpond.com> <irene.schaffer@bigpond.com> wrote: > > Dear Maree, Karen and list, Yes I thought there were people who, for a few pence wrote letters for those who were illiterate in those days, not only convicts but others as well. > > Regards > > Irene > > Subject: [AUS-Tas] Re: Ref: Literacy > > Further to Chris' reply > > The convicts did have classes on the voyage out, but how much they learnt is anyone's guess. > > Some of the Irish convicts were literate but not in English, so were considered 'illiterate'. > > Yes, there were letter writers for those convict who needed that service and came, possibly, at a 'cost'. Similarly there would be some one to read the letters, if they indeed received them. > > Convicts could, once they could keep themselves and perhaps saved some money, apply for their family to come out. I am sure if they were illiterate then, there would have been someone at the police office or elsewhere to help. > > What do other listers think? > > Maree > >> On 29/04/2019 5:12 pm, K Market Associates wrote: >> Hi Listers, >> >> >> >> This question may have a very logical answer but I thought I would >> call on the collective wisdom and experience of my peers to advise me. >> >> >> >> Who helped convicts who were illiterate? >> >> >> >> If they couldn't read or write to their loved ones (back in the old >> country) who helped them and who in the old country would read the >> letter to their illiterate spouse and children?? >> >> >> >> My gg grandfather was illiterate as was his wife and probably the children. >> As I am still trying to find out what happened to them all - I >> wondered how in the dickens did they know, understand what was >> happening to their father >> - how did they communicate?? >> >> >> >> He eventually got a "Ticket of Leave" - and I wondered how did they >> know he was free? From the document I saw online he still maintained >> he was married with two children. I haven't found the family in the >> colony so I am still searching. They didn't arrive on the ship with him. >> >> >> >> Many thanks >> >> Karen Kestigian > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > _______________________________________________ > AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://sites.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ > Contact Admin AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

I can answer one bit of this - letters home to the 'old country' were like newspapers today somewhat - read aloud in the local pub and or church or.. wherever there was a good gathering of people in fact. Read by anyone who could read! As to who actually penned the letter from the convict or other illiterate - I assume anyone who was willing and able! My own ancestors came here in the late 1830s 1840s and early 1850s all as free settlers. I think almost none was literate when they came but after say 20 years here, they could at least sign their names! My own maternal maternal great grandmother was illiterate (Mum came here as a young child from England) and G gran died in 1942. To my shame I asked my Grandma (her daughter) when I was just learning to read a few weeks at school 'WHY - was she silly'? And was gently told, 'far from it but she just never had the chance to learn'. As an adult, I have learned that the Education Act in England came in about early 1870s - in time for grandma and her siblings to have to go to school, (the family arrived starting early 1881) but their Mum was born about mid to late 1850s. That is why!!! And the family was as poor as church mice I think with a huge number of kids and Dad working in the mines... he probably got good money but with the huge number of offspring they had, it wouldn't have gone far. It was always a rented or tied house as far as I have been able to find out. Dawn -----Original Message----- From: K Market Associates [mailto:kma-pr@kma-pr.com.au] Sent: Monday, 29 April 2019 5:12 PM To: aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-Tas] Ref: Literacy Hi Listers, This question may have a very logical answer but I thought I would call on the collective wisdom and experience of my peers to advise me. Who helped convicts who were illiterate? If they couldn't read or write to their loved ones (back in the old country) who helped them and who in the old country would read the letter to their illiterate spouse and children?? My gg grandfather was illiterate as was his wife and probably the children. As I am still trying to find out what happened to them all - I wondered how in the dickens did they know, understand what was happening to their father - how did they communicate?? He eventually got a "Ticket of Leave" - and I wondered how did they know he was free? From the document I saw online he still maintained he was married with two children. I haven't found the family in the colony so I am still searching. They didn't arrive on the ship with him. Many thanks Karen Kestigian _______________________________________________ AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://sites.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ Contact Admin AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Dawn that was such a beautiful reply and with such empathy Thank you Karen Sent from my iPhone > On 29 Apr 2019, at 6:54 pm, Dawn Webb <dawnwebb@optusnet.com.au> wrote: > > I can answer one bit of this - letters home to the 'old country' were like > newspapers today somewhat - read aloud in the local pub and or church or.. > wherever there was a good gathering of people in fact. Read by anyone who > could read! As to who actually penned the letter from the convict or other > illiterate - I assume anyone who was willing and able! My own ancestors > came here in the late 1830s 1840s and early 1850s all as free settlers. I > think almost none was literate when they came but after say 20 years here, > they could at least sign their names! > > My own maternal maternal great grandmother was illiterate (Mum came here as > a young child from England) and G gran died in 1942. To my shame I asked my > Grandma (her daughter) when I was just learning to read a few weeks at > school 'WHY - was she silly'? And was gently told, 'far from it but she just > never had the chance to learn'. As an adult, I have learned that the > Education Act in England came in about early 1870s - in time for grandma and > her siblings to have to go to school, (the family arrived starting early > 1881) but their Mum was born about mid to late 1850s. That is why!!! And > the family was as poor as church mice I think with a huge number of kids and > Dad working in the mines... he probably got good money but with the huge > number of offspring they had, it wouldn't have gone far. It was always a > rented or tied house as far as I have been able to find out. > > Dawn > > -----Original Message----- > From: K Market Associates [mailto:kma-pr@kma-pr.com.au] > Sent: Monday, 29 April 2019 5:12 PM > To: aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com > Subject: [AUS-Tas] Ref: Literacy > > Hi Listers, > > > > This question may have a very logical answer but I thought I would call on > the collective wisdom and experience of my peers to advise me. > > > > Who helped convicts who were illiterate? > > > > If they couldn't read or write to their loved ones (back in the old country) > who helped them and who in the old country would read the letter to their > illiterate spouse and children?? > > > > My gg grandfather was illiterate as was his wife and probably the children. > As I am still trying to find out what happened to them all - I wondered how > in the dickens did they know, understand what was happening to their father > - how did they communicate?? > > > > He eventually got a "Ticket of Leave" - and I wondered how did they know he > was free? From the document I saw online he still maintained he was married > with two children. I haven't found the family in the colony so I am still > searching. They didn't arrive on the ship with him. > > > > Many thanks > > Karen Kestigian > > > _______________________________________________ > AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://sites.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ > Contact Admin AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe > https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > _______________________________________________ > AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://sites.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ > Contact Admin AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

I hope these extracts are of interest.They come from a paper I presented at the Tasmanian Local History Societies’ 6th Biennial Conference andLocal History Fair, 20 October, 2001, “Convict ships to Van Diemen’s Land:Was it Leisure and Pleasure.“ The paper was printed in /Tasmanian Historical Research Association Papers and Proceedings /vol. 50 no. 2, June 2002.  Maree Many convicts were taught to read and write, and to sew trousers and jackets, to knit socks.On board the /Pestonjee Bomangee /(1) of 1845 they made: 275 pairs of duck trousers, 250 grey waistcoats, grey jackets, and grey trousers, all government clothing. Letters concerning the voyage of /H.M.S. Anson/ note that the convicts voluntarily attended evening lectures, as well as pantomimes and singing.There was a**double allowance of wine to these people, which may have been an incentive to join in.The captain believed that contentment among the prisoners to be a foremost consideration to their health. Of the 500 embarked, he lost only one convict on this voyage. Both morning and afternoon when the female convicts per /Atwick/ (1838) had finished their chores they had their free time filled with learning and needlework. Some of the best educated convicts were appointed as school mistresses engaged to teach other convicts who could not read or write.  On board he /Blenheim (/1839/), /in the evenings dancing had occurred though this was later replaced by moral and religious instruction.The Religious Instructor, Charles Wood, distributed books to the prisoners, and taught them reading, writing, arithmetic, and religious studies in the mornings. Because of the narrowness of the ship, only half of the prisoners were taught at once, with the remainder remaining on deck. There was a lack of elementary books and he found the supply of Testaments and religious books inappropriate for teaching those who could not read or write, and observed that many Irish prisoners could not well understand English.  Another prisoner who understood the Irish, presumably Gaelic, instructed them in Irish Catholicism. Some absenteeism from classes was experienced in the tropics, and it was found that these were the most ignorant, and they used the excuse that it was too late to learn. The prisoners on board the William Jardine produced a weekly newspaper. Other activities included tailoring, carpentry and knitting, some of the convicts learning this craft. The religious instructor taught the children of the guards in classes, which were set up on the quarterdeck. During, Divine Service, some of the prisoners took the lead in singing the hymns and the surgeon stated that they were sung ‘with much taste’.One prisoner played the violin ‑ again with great taste, which gave the others much pleasure.Before departure from England, opportunity was given to the prisoners to write letters and the surgeon noted that 47 took advantage of this. Several asked for books, and the Religious Instructor supplied these. On 29/04/2019 5:12 pm, K Market Associates wrote: > Hi Listers, > > > > This question may have a very logical answer but I thought I would call on > the collective wisdom and experience of my peers to advise me. > > > > Who helped convicts who were illiterate? > > > > If they couldn't read or write to their loved ones (back in the old country) > who helped them and who in the old country would read the letter to their > illiterate spouse and children?? > > > > My gg grandfather was illiterate as was his wife and probably the children. > As I am still trying to find out what happened to them all - I wondered how > in the dickens did they know, understand what was happening to their father > - how did they communicate?? > > > > He eventually got a "Ticket of Leave" - and I wondered how did they know he > was free? From the document I saw online he still maintained he was married > with two children. I haven't found the family in the colony so I am still > searching. They didn't arrive on the ship with him. > > > > Many thanks > > Karen Kestigian > > > ______________

Hi Maree, Thank you so much for such an informative and exceptionally good "paper" on the subject. It provides me and I hope others who may be interested, with such a great insight. It is so wonderful to see the humanitarian touch to these otherwise unpleasant voyages. Kind regards Karen -----Original Message----- From: Maree Ring [mailto:mareering@gmail.com] Sent: 29 April 2019 20:16 To: aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-Tas] Re: Ref: Literacy I hope these extracts are of interest.They come from a paper I presented at the Tasmanian Local History Societies’ 6th Biennial Conference andLocal History Fair, 20 October, 2001, “Convict ships to Van Diemen’s Land:Was it Leisure and Pleasure.“ The paper was printed in /Tasmanian Historical Research Association Papers and Proceedings /vol. 50 no. 2, June 2002. Maree Many convicts were taught to read and write, and to sew trousers and jackets, to knit socks.On board the /Pestonjee Bomangee /(1) of 1845 they made: 275 pairs of duck trousers, 250 grey waistcoats, grey jackets, and grey trousers, all government clothing. Letters concerning the voyage of /H.M.S. Anson/ note that the convicts voluntarily attended evening lectures, as well as pantomimes and singing.There was a**double allowance of wine to these people, which may have been an incentive to join in.The captain believed that contentment among the prisoners to be a foremost consideration to their health. Of the 500 embarked, he lost only one convict on this voyage. Both morning and afternoon when the female convicts per /Atwick/ (1838) had finished their chores they had their free time filled with learning and needlework. Some of the best educated convicts were appointed as school mistresses engaged to teach other convicts who could not read or write. On board he /Blenheim (/1839/), /in the evenings dancing had occurred though this was later replaced by moral and religious instruction.The Religious Instructor, Charles Wood, distributed books to the prisoners, and taught them reading, writing, arithmetic, and religious studies in the mornings. Because of the narrowness of the ship, only half of the prisoners were taught at once, with the remainder remaining on deck. There was a lack of elementary books and he found the supply of Testaments and religious books inappropriate for teaching those who could not read or write, and observed that many Irish prisoners could not well understand English. Another prisoner who understood the Irish, presumably Gaelic, instructed them in Irish Catholicism. Some absenteeism from classes was experienced in the tropics, and it was found that these were the most ignorant, and they used the excuse that it was too late to learn. The prisoners on board the William Jardine produced a weekly newspaper. Other activities included tailoring, carpentry and knitting, some of the convicts learning this craft. The religious instructor taught the children of the guards in classes, which were set up on the quarterdeck. During, Divine Service, some of the prisoners took the lead in singing the hymns and the surgeon stated that they were sung ‘with much taste’.One prisoner played the violin ‑ again with great taste, which gave the others much pleasure.Before departure from England, opportunity was given to the prisoners to write letters and the surgeon noted that 47 took advantage of this. Several asked for books, and the Religious Instructor supplied these. On 29/04/2019 5:12 pm, K Market Associates wrote: > Hi Listers, > > > > This question may have a very logical answer but I thought I would > call on the collective wisdom and experience of my peers to advise me. > > > > Who helped convicts who were illiterate? > > > > If they couldn't read or write to their loved ones (back in the old > country) who helped them and who in the old country would read the > letter to their illiterate spouse and children?? > > > > My gg grandfather was illiterate as was his wife and probably the children. > As I am still trying to find out what happened to them all - I > wondered how in the dickens did they know, understand what was > happening to their father > - how did they communicate?? > > > > He eventually got a "Ticket of Leave" - and I wondered how did they > know he was free? From the document I saw online he still maintained > he was married with two children. I haven't found the family in the > colony so I am still searching. They didn't arrive on the ship with him. > > > > Many thanks > > Karen Kestigian > > > ______________ _______________________________________________ AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://sites.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ Contact Admin AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Hello Maree, Is there any way that an interstate person could have access to your paper? I would be most interested to read it. Chris in Melbourne -----Original Message----- From: Maree Ring [mailto:mareering@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, 29 April 2019 8:16 PM To: aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-Tas] Re: Ref: Literacy I hope these extracts are of interest.They come from a paper I presented at the Tasmanian Local History Societies’ 6th Biennial Conference andLocal History Fair, 20 October, 2001, “Convict ships to Van Diemen’s Land:Was it Leisure and Pleasure.“ The paper was printed in /Tasmanian Historical Research Association Papers and Proceedings /vol. 50 no. 2, June 2002. Maree Many convicts were taught to read and write, and to sew trousers and jackets, to knit socks.On board the /Pestonjee Bomangee /(1) of 1845 they made: 275 pairs of duck trousers, 250 grey waistcoats, grey jackets, and grey trousers, all government clothing. Letters concerning the voyage of /H.M.S. Anson/ note that the convicts voluntarily attended evening lectures, as well as pantomimes and singing.There was a**double allowance of wine to these people, which may have been an incentive to join in.The captain believed that contentment among the prisoners to be a foremost consideration to their health. Of the 500 embarked, he lost only one convict on this voyage. Both morning and afternoon when the female convicts per /Atwick/ (1838) had finished their chores they had their free time filled with learning and needlework. Some of the best educated convicts were appointed as school mistresses engaged to teach other convicts who could not read or write. On board he /Blenheim (/1839/), /in the evenings dancing had occurred though this was later replaced by moral and religious instruction.The Religious Instructor, Charles Wood, distributed books to the prisoners, and taught them reading, writing, arithmetic, and religious studies in the mornings. Because of the narrowness of the ship, only half of the prisoners were taught at once, with the remainder remaining on deck. There was a lack of elementary books and he found the supply of Testaments and religious books inappropriate for teaching those who could not read or write, and observed that many Irish prisoners could not well understand English. Another prisoner who understood the Irish, presumably Gaelic, instructed them in Irish Catholicism. Some absenteeism from classes was experienced in the tropics, and it was found that these were the most ignorant, and they used the excuse that it was too late to learn. The prisoners on board the William Jardine produced a weekly newspaper. Other activities included tailoring, carpentry and knitting, some of the convicts learning this craft. The religious instructor taught the children of the guards in classes, which were set up on the quarterdeck. During, Divine Service, some of the prisoners took the lead in singing the hymns and the surgeon stated that they were sung ‘with much taste’.One prisoner played the violin ‑ again with great taste, which gave the others much pleasure.Before departure from England, opportunity was given to the prisoners to write letters and the surgeon noted that 47 took advantage of this. Several asked for books, and the Religious Instructor supplied these. On 29/04/2019 5:12 pm, K Market Associates wrote: > Hi Listers, > > > > This question may have a very logical answer but I thought I would call on > the collective wisdom and experience of my peers to advise me. > > > > Who helped convicts who were illiterate? > > > > If they couldn't read or write to their loved ones (back in the old country) > who helped them and who in the old country would read the letter to their > illiterate spouse and children?? > > > > My gg grandfather was illiterate as was his wife and probably the children. > As I am still trying to find out what happened to them all - I wondered how > in the dickens did they know, understand what was happening to their father > - how did they communicate?? > > > > He eventually got a "Ticket of Leave" - and I wondered how did they know he > was free? From the document I saw online he still maintained he was married > with two children. I haven't found the family in the colony so I am still > searching. They didn't arrive on the ship with him. > > > > Many thanks > > Karen Kestigian > > > ______________ _______________________________________________ AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://sites.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ Contact Admin AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community