Hi Looking for information on the children of Arthur James & Elizabeth (Lizzie) (nee McSweeney) O'ROURKE of Lebrina Tasmania Arthur James O'Rourke died 30/8/1918 Launceston and Elizabeth (Lizzie) O'Rourke died 28/5/1914 Lebrina I have these children but by the gaps in birth dates I think there were more Arthur John Russell O'Rourke 5/8/1883 - 6/1948 Victoria buried 21/6/1948 Fawkner Cemetery married Lucy Catherine McGlone 9/9/1905 Church Apostles Launceston Florence Elizabeth O'Rourke 8/4/1885 named as Frances Elizabeth O'Rourke in her father's Will James Patrick O'Rourke 8/4/1885 - 4/8/1974 Queensland Lawrence William O'Rourke c 1893 listed on WW1 Digital Archive died 29/7/1916 Terence George Maurice O'Rourke 2/4/1896 - 10/2/1959 Victoria married Georgina Violet Daley 12/6/1920 Hobart When the people of Lebrina had a welcoming home gathering for Terence after the War it was noted that 4 sons of Arthur had gone to War. I suspect that Francis Alexander O'Rourke c 1890 - 1956 New Zealand is another son he also went to the War but lists his NOK as his aunt Mrs Thomas O'Rourke of Spotswood Victoria coincidently when Arthur John Russell O'Rourke moved to Victoria he lived in Spotswood also. Electoral Rolls 1914 suggest a Timothy O'Rourke also resided in the same area as Arthur James & Lizzie O'Rourke but I can't find anything on him after the E/Roll listing in 1914 I have all the information on the O'Rourke's from TROVE regarding The Premier Hotel and the Orchard they had near Lebrina etc, its mainly the exact number of children and their names I'm interested in at the moment. Thanks Suzanne

Thanks to Douglas Burberry I’ve been able to piece together some more information about my ggg grandfather, John Lamph. He was in continual trouble after he arrived, receiving a total of about 200 lashes for various misdemeanours. Years ago I was in Hobart and found the following about him on microfiche in the library. "7/3/1822 Causing to be made known he would publicly fight and thereby inducing several thousand convicts and other persons illegally to assemble together causing a great affray to the terror of King George III's subjects by publicly fighting - Disobedience of the orders and contempt of the authority of the Superintendent of Police - 50 lashes and to work for two months in the Gaol Gang.” I’ve never been able to find out what this was all about. I’ve searched Trove, but to no avail. Can anybody help me? Regards, Doug Hille in Geelong. Researching Lamph, Whitchurch, Peck, Price, Nunn, Argent, Hayward, Fewtrell, Kearley, Frost,

Hi, Doug, did a bit more digging and seems the key word from his convict record is "affray" which was later defined in the English Criminal Code Bill of 1880 (cl. 96 section 72) as: "Any person who takes part in a fight in a public place, or takes part in a fight of such a nature as to alarm the public in any other place to which the public have access, commits a misdemeanour. Maximum penalty—1 year’s imprisonment." The following article in Trove from 1825 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/37072204 Serious Affray There are also a number of articles relating to the disgraceful behaviour of a public official for engaging in a street brawl. similar articles in the 1820s can be found in Trove by searching "affray" but, as you say, no mention of the one you describe involving John Lamph. There are also a number of articles relating to the disgraceful behaviour of a public official for engaging in a street brawl, such behavior not being viewed as appropriate for a civilized society. cheers, elaine TAS Descendant in Reno, Nevada On Sunday, January 4, 2015 6:34 AM, Elaine Hanford via <aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com> wrote: Doug, on reading his convict records, I note that he is described in 1820 on the ship Castle Forbes list as being 5' 9 1/2" tall which makes him above-average height for the times and in the remarks he is described as "Quiet" .... is there not an old adage about being wary of the quiet ones? provides a contrast with his Convict Record wherein he seems to have repeatedly been in conflict with authority...doing what he wanted as opposed to following the rules of his contract There is a Will listed in the index for the year 1837, Will number 140 on page 272 Document ID 636932 (AD960/1/1) and perhaps that might shed some more light on John Lamph as a person (unfortunately, the image would not load for me this morning) I have images of his convict records and could email to you direct if you wish and will send me your address cheers, elaine TAS descendant in Reno, Nevada On Saturday, January 3, 2015 7:12 PM, Graeme & Wynnette Ford via <aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com> wrote: Hello Doug, Sound very much like to me that he was advertising he would participate publicly in a bare knuckle fight. (Possibly he was hoping to make some money for himself.) These fights were often illegal, but extremely popular with both ordinary and aristocratic persons. So it would seem there was so much interest in the fight (and probably a significant amount of betting involved) a massive crowd assembled. They then possibly became more like a mob, "terrifying" the ordinary citizens, especially as it states that there were "several thousand convicts". That in itself would be enough to severely worry the local law in 1822, of whom there may not have been that many. Unless there is possibly a newspaper of the time surviving (though it might be worth re-checking), it may have only been fully described on his record. Regards, Wynnette. -----Original Message----- From: aus-tasmania-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-tasmania-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Doug Hille via Sent: Sunday, 4 January 2015 8:39 AM To: AUS-TASMANIA@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-Tas] Convict Constable John Lamph Thanks to Douglas Burberry I’ve been able to piece together some more information about my ggg grandfather, John Lamph. He was in continual trouble after he arrived, receiving a total of about 200 lashes for various misdemeanours. Years ago I was in Hobart and found the following about him on microfiche in the library. "7/3/1822 Causing to be made known he would publicly fight and thereby inducing several thousand convicts and other persons illegally to assemble together causing a great affray to the terror of King George III's subjects by publicly fighting - Disobedience of the orders and contempt of the authority of the Superintendent of Police - 50 lashes and to work for two months in the Gaol Gang.” I’ve never been able to find out what this was all about. I’ve searched Trove, but to no avail. Can anybody help me? Regards, Doug Hille in Geelong. Researching Lamph, Whitchurch, Peck, Price, Nunn, Argent, Hayward, Fewtrell, Kearley, Frost, ------------------------------- AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ Contact Admin AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com Search the Archive (type AUS-Tasmania in the list box) http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-TASMANIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5645 / Virus Database: 4257/8864 - Release Date: 01/03/15 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5645 / Virus Database: 4257/8864 - Release Date: 01/03/15 ------------------------------- AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ Contact Admin AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com Search the Archive (type AUS-Tasmania in the list box) http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-TASMANIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ Contact Admin AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com Search the Archive (type AUS-Tasmania in the list box) http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-TASMANIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Doug, on reading his convict records, I note that he is described in 1820 on the ship Castle Forbes list as being 5' 9 1/2" tall which makes him above-average height for the times and in the remarks he is described as "Quiet" .... is there not an old adage about being wary of the quiet ones? provides a contrast with his Convict Record wherein he seems to have repeatedly been in conflict with authority...doing what he wanted as opposed to following the rules of his contract There is a Will listed in the index for the year 1837, Will number 140 on page 272 Document ID 636932 (AD960/1/1) and perhaps that might shed some more light on John Lamph as a person (unfortunately, the image would not load for me this morning) I have images of his convict records and could email to you direct if you wish and will send me your address cheers, elaine TAS descendant in Reno, Nevada On Saturday, January 3, 2015 7:12 PM, Graeme & Wynnette Ford via <aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com> wrote: Hello Doug, Sound very much like to me that he was advertising he would participate publicly in a bare knuckle fight. (Possibly he was hoping to make some money for himself.) These fights were often illegal, but extremely popular with both ordinary and aristocratic persons. So it would seem there was so much interest in the fight (and probably a significant amount of betting involved) a massive crowd assembled. They then possibly became more like a mob, "terrifying" the ordinary citizens, especially as it states that there were "several thousand convicts". That in itself would be enough to severely worry the local law in 1822, of whom there may not have been that many. Unless there is possibly a newspaper of the time surviving (though it might be worth re-checking), it may have only been fully described on his record. Regards, Wynnette. -----Original Message----- From: aus-tasmania-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-tasmania-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Doug Hille via Sent: Sunday, 4 January 2015 8:39 AM To: AUS-TASMANIA@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-Tas] Convict Constable John Lamph Thanks to Douglas Burberry I’ve been able to piece together some more information about my ggg grandfather, John Lamph. He was in continual trouble after he arrived, receiving a total of about 200 lashes for various misdemeanours. Years ago I was in Hobart and found the following about him on microfiche in the library. "7/3/1822 Causing to be made known he would publicly fight and thereby inducing several thousand convicts and other persons illegally to assemble together causing a great affray to the terror of King George III's subjects by publicly fighting - Disobedience of the orders and contempt of the authority of the Superintendent of Police - 50 lashes and to work for two months in the Gaol Gang.” I’ve never been able to find out what this was all about. I’ve searched Trove, but to no avail. Can anybody help me? Regards, Doug Hille in Geelong. Researching Lamph, Whitchurch, Peck, Price, Nunn, Argent, Hayward, Fewtrell, Kearley, Frost, ------------------------------- AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ Contact Admin AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com Search the Archive (type AUS-Tasmania in the list box) http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-TASMANIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5645 / Virus Database: 4257/8864 - Release Date: 01/03/15 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5645 / Virus Database: 4257/8864 - Release Date: 01/03/15 ------------------------------- AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ Contact Admin AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com Search the Archive (type AUS-Tasmania in the list box) http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-TASMANIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Daily Telegraph 12 Sep 1918 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/152994032 Timothy O'ROURKE is brother to F J O'ROURKE AIF .....both connected to A J O'ROURKE....but relationship not given. I cannot identify WW1 file which might be for F J O'ROURKE

Launceston Examiner 10 Nov 1916 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/50897752 ? Final leave for Terence O'ROURKE....fourth son to enlist........so three others enlisted before that date. Do Arthur James O'ROURKE or wife Elizabeth have children from earlier marriages? Terence is barely 20 years old, so three brothers would be older?

That is wonderful Susan. Thsnk you for the link. Hadn't seen it before. Helen Brown Sent from my iPad > On 3 Jan 2015, at 12:31 pm, Susan Geason via <aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > Re Doug's story about corrupt convict police, you can read Margaret > Dillon's PhD thesis about convict police in Campbelltown online at > http://eprints.utas.edu.au/7777/2/02Whole1.pdf. It's worth noting that the > system that rewarded them financially for making arrests would have > contributed to a culture of corruption. > > Susan Geason > > > ------------------------------- > AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ > Contact Admin AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com > Search the Archive (type AUS-Tasmania in the list box) > http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-TASMANIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Re Doug's story about corrupt convict police, you can read Margaret Dillon's PhD thesis about convict police in Campbelltown online at http://eprints.utas.edu.au/7777/2/02Whole1.pdf. It's worth noting that the system that rewarded them financially for making arrests would have contributed to a culture of corruption. Susan Geason

Hi, Yes this is a great story, and no doubt there are so many others, they should be put on paper ,I belong to the Devonport Writers group and out of our semesters we publish a book of short stories, poems, its recoding history in our time of our early history. Do put pen to paper Best regards Tas -----Original Message----- From: Julie Gough via Sent: Friday, January 02, 2015 8:21 PM To: Douglas Burbury Cc: AUS-TASMANIA Subject: Re: [AUS-Tas] Corrupt convict constables hi Douglas This is a great story - I think you are right Wouldn't it be great to find out more about their early lives in Ireland, they were probably married to sisters, or were cousins, or some such relationship.. Maybe a book of short stories like these could be published - another book like the WAY BACK WHEN northern volume - with perhaps a 12-20 people contributing 1-2 stories each, with references etc ? Julie On 2 January 2015 at 20:10, Douglas Burbury via <aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com> wrote: > I just came across something and I thought I'd share it for the general > interest of List members. It is also an example of some of the > surprising things you can find out with a bit of cross-referencing. It's > a pity one or two people couldn't do it 180 years ago or some innocent > lives might have been saved. > > I have been looking into the robbery of Hamilton's store at Ross in > November 1834. One of the robbers, Michael Rice, turned King's Evidence, > and his evidence led to the conviction and execution of four of his > accomplices (Thomas Kirkham, John Ashton, John Bourke and William > Weston). A fifth accomplice, Charles Nosworthy, received a Life > sentence. It all seemed fairly straightforward. > > However, all of the convicted felons maintained their innocence right up > until the moment they were hanged. They even claimed that the whole > business was a set-up organised by Convict Constable John Lamph, one of > the arresting constables, and the snitch Rice. They said that while in > gaol, Lamph often came to see Rice, and that the two of them planned the > whole testimony in order that Lamph could get a Conditional Pardon out > of the affair. Rice denied this of course. > > Moreover, all six of the robbers who were charged -- Rice, Kirkham, > Ashton, Bourke, Weston and Nosworthy -- were free men at the time of the > robbery. Nosworthy had even arrived free and had no prior convict > record. (All the others were previously convicts who were now free by > servitude.) The only current convict among the lot of them was the > arresting constable, John Lamph. > > In the end John Lamph did receive a Conditional Pardon for bringing the > felons to justice, and Michael Rice -- although confessing to the > robbery -- received immunity for turning Kings Evidence. > > Around the same time, the "Colonial Times" newspaper ran a series of > editorials on the injustice of employing convicts as police constables, > and on rewarding these constables with pardons, tickets-of-leave or a > share in the rewards or fines on offer. The CT editor made a particular > example of Convict Constable Lamph and the Ross robbery. The Editor > lamented how the system invariably led to corruption, and how free > people were at risk of losing their property and even their lives at the > whims of convicts seeking pardons or rewards. > > The CT Editor went on to point out that later on in July 1835, Constable > Lamph brought capital charges of assault against four free men in Hobart > Town -- "capital" meaning that if found guilty, the men would be > sentenced to death. However, the four men were acquitted and Constable > Lamph was subsequently charged with perjury for lying under oath about > the assault. (Apparently the courtroom audience erupted with cheers at > this, and the Judge had a hard time calming them down.) > > I was looking at the various convict records for these people, and I > came across a rather interesting "coincidence", although I don't believe > much in coincidences: > > John Lamph and Michael Rice both came to VDL as convicts aboard the same > transport, the "Castle Forbes". In fact they were both from County > Armagh and had been tried at the same Lent Assizes in 1819, and they > were 3 years apart in age. > > This was never mentioned in the trial of Kirkham et al or even by the > "Colonial Times" Editor. But think about it: if you were an unscrupulous > convict constable with a Life sentence who was prepared to lie and cheat > your way to freedom, and you'd just arrested one of your old comrades > and brother-in-arms who was looking at a death sentence if you turned > him in ... and you had a chance to make the whole thing turn out more > than well for both of you ... than what would *you* do??? > > Hmmmmmmmm .......... > > Douglas > > ------------------------------- > AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ > Contact Admin AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com > Search the Archive (type AUS-Tasmania in the list box) > http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-TASMANIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ Contact Admin AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com Search the Archive (type AUS-Tasmania in the list box) http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-TASMANIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com

was dismissed by the Tas railways and took them on. A Royal Commission found he had been hardly done by. I can't find the result of his refusal to accept an offer of compensation by Tas parliament in 1919-21 on Trove. Could you suggest where else I should look? Perhaps it took longer than that time frame but one of you will be sure to know where to look! HNY to you all,. Susan

hi Douglas This is a great story - I think you are right Wouldn't it be great to find out more about their early lives in Ireland, they were probably married to sisters, or were cousins, or some such relationship.. Maybe a book of short stories like these could be published - another book like the WAY BACK WHEN northern volume - with perhaps a 12-20 people contributing 1-2 stories each, with references etc ? Julie On 2 January 2015 at 20:10, Douglas Burbury via <aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com> wrote: > I just came across something and I thought I'd share it for the general > interest of List members. It is also an example of some of the > surprising things you can find out with a bit of cross-referencing. It's > a pity one or two people couldn't do it 180 years ago or some innocent > lives might have been saved. > > I have been looking into the robbery of Hamilton's store at Ross in > November 1834. One of the robbers, Michael Rice, turned King's Evidence, > and his evidence led to the conviction and execution of four of his > accomplices (Thomas Kirkham, John Ashton, John Bourke and William > Weston). A fifth accomplice, Charles Nosworthy, received a Life > sentence. It all seemed fairly straightforward. > > However, all of the convicted felons maintained their innocence right up > until the moment they were hanged. They even claimed that the whole > business was a set-up organised by Convict Constable John Lamph, one of > the arresting constables, and the snitch Rice. They said that while in > gaol, Lamph often came to see Rice, and that the two of them planned the > whole testimony in order that Lamph could get a Conditional Pardon out > of the affair. Rice denied this of course. > > Moreover, all six of the robbers who were charged -- Rice, Kirkham, > Ashton, Bourke, Weston and Nosworthy -- were free men at the time of the > robbery. Nosworthy had even arrived free and had no prior convict > record. (All the others were previously convicts who were now free by > servitude.) The only current convict among the lot of them was the > arresting constable, John Lamph. > > In the end John Lamph did receive a Conditional Pardon for bringing the > felons to justice, and Michael Rice -- although confessing to the > robbery -- received immunity for turning Kings Evidence. > > Around the same time, the "Colonial Times" newspaper ran a series of > editorials on the injustice of employing convicts as police constables, > and on rewarding these constables with pardons, tickets-of-leave or a > share in the rewards or fines on offer. The CT editor made a particular > example of Convict Constable Lamph and the Ross robbery. The Editor > lamented how the system invariably led to corruption, and how free > people were at risk of losing their property and even their lives at the > whims of convicts seeking pardons or rewards. > > The CT Editor went on to point out that later on in July 1835, Constable > Lamph brought capital charges of assault against four free men in Hobart > Town -- "capital" meaning that if found guilty, the men would be > sentenced to death. However, the four men were acquitted and Constable > Lamph was subsequently charged with perjury for lying under oath about > the assault. (Apparently the courtroom audience erupted with cheers at > this, and the Judge had a hard time calming them down.) > > I was looking at the various convict records for these people, and I > came across a rather interesting "coincidence", although I don't believe > much in coincidences: > > John Lamph and Michael Rice both came to VDL as convicts aboard the same > transport, the "Castle Forbes". In fact they were both from County > Armagh and had been tried at the same Lent Assizes in 1819, and they > were 3 years apart in age. > > This was never mentioned in the trial of Kirkham et al or even by the > "Colonial Times" Editor. But think about it: if you were an unscrupulous > convict constable with a Life sentence who was prepared to lie and cheat > your way to freedom, and you'd just arrested one of your old comrades > and brother-in-arms who was looking at a death sentence if you turned > him in ... and you had a chance to make the whole thing turn out more > than well for both of you ... than what would *you* do??? > > Hmmmmmmmm .......... > > Douglas > > ------------------------------- > AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ > Contact Admin AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com > Search the Archive (type AUS-Tasmania in the list box) > http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-TASMANIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I just came across something and I thought I'd share it for the general interest of List members. It is also an example of some of the surprising things you can find out with a bit of cross-referencing. It's a pity one or two people couldn't do it 180 years ago or some innocent lives might have been saved. I have been looking into the robbery of Hamilton's store at Ross in November 1834. One of the robbers, Michael Rice, turned King's Evidence, and his evidence led to the conviction and execution of four of his accomplices (Thomas Kirkham, John Ashton, John Bourke and William Weston). A fifth accomplice, Charles Nosworthy, received a Life sentence. It all seemed fairly straightforward. However, all of the convicted felons maintained their innocence right up until the moment they were hanged. They even claimed that the whole business was a set-up organised by Convict Constable John Lamph, one of the arresting constables, and the snitch Rice. They said that while in gaol, Lamph often came to see Rice, and that the two of them planned the whole testimony in order that Lamph could get a Conditional Pardon out of the affair. Rice denied this of course. Moreover, all six of the robbers who were charged -- Rice, Kirkham, Ashton, Bourke, Weston and Nosworthy -- were free men at the time of the robbery. Nosworthy had even arrived free and had no prior convict record. (All the others were previously convicts who were now free by servitude.) The only current convict among the lot of them was the arresting constable, John Lamph. In the end John Lamph did receive a Conditional Pardon for bringing the felons to justice, and Michael Rice -- although confessing to the robbery -- received immunity for turning Kings Evidence. Around the same time, the "Colonial Times" newspaper ran a series of editorials on the injustice of employing convicts as police constables, and on rewarding these constables with pardons, tickets-of-leave or a share in the rewards or fines on offer. The CT editor made a particular example of Convict Constable Lamph and the Ross robbery. The Editor lamented how the system invariably led to corruption, and how free people were at risk of losing their property and even their lives at the whims of convicts seeking pardons or rewards. The CT Editor went on to point out that later on in July 1835, Constable Lamph brought capital charges of assault against four free men in Hobart Town -- "capital" meaning that if found guilty, the men would be sentenced to death. However, the four men were acquitted and Constable Lamph was subsequently charged with perjury for lying under oath about the assault. (Apparently the courtroom audience erupted with cheers at this, and the Judge had a hard time calming them down.) I was looking at the various convict records for these people, and I came across a rather interesting "coincidence", although I don't believe much in coincidences: John Lamph and Michael Rice both came to VDL as convicts aboard the same transport, the "Castle Forbes". In fact they were both from County Armagh and had been tried at the same Lent Assizes in 1819, and they were 3 years apart in age. This was never mentioned in the trial of Kirkham et al or even by the "Colonial Times" Editor. But think about it: if you were an unscrupulous convict constable with a Life sentence who was prepared to lie and cheat your way to freedom, and you'd just arrested one of your old comrades and brother-in-arms who was looking at a death sentence if you turned him in ... and you had a chance to make the whole thing turn out more than well for both of you ... than what would *you* do??? Hmmmmmmmm .......... Douglas

Hi Peter, Thanks for the findings. It's certain that both Gardiner and Foster were storekeepers, and one started up soon after the other closed down (although Gardiner kept his Erin Lodge store at Ross going for an additional 12 months or so). So they were definitely in the same business. And I am very much inclined to think that Foster came to an arrangement with Gardiner and took over his premises and stock -- it would have been the easiest thing for everyone concerned. However, Gardiner's other main business (apart from running a couple of sheep) was his directorship of the Union Bank in Hobart, so it would not be unexpected for him to be helping out someone like Foster with a bit of financing. I also found an advertisement for a block of land being sold in 1837 in Campbell Town. It fronted the main road and was bounded by the allotments of James Hamilton, Robert Foster and John Gardiner. And inquiries were to be directed to Gavin Hogg locally. James Hamilton was another big name in the general storekeeping business in Campbell Town and Ross during the early 1830s. And Gavin Hogg was a licensed victualler. So they seemed to be something of a close-knit mob, those storekeepers. Hmmmmm, come to think of it ..... A trip to the DPIW Dungeon might help sort the matter out, to see if land changed hands between Gardiner and Foster. Though I suppose Foster might just as easily have leased the premises. Douglas On 1/01/2015 9:55 PM, Peter Oakley wrote: > Hi Douglas, > > This notice appears in the Hobart Town Courier 3 May 1833 - > > NOTICE TO CREDITORS. , > > ROBERT CHRISTOPHER FOSTER, of Campbell town, dealer, having executed a > conveyance and assignment of all his estate and effects unto Sir. John > Swan, of Hobart town, and Mr. John Gardiner, of Campbell town, as > trustees for the benefit of such of his creditors as shall become > parties to the trust deed : This is inform the creditors of the said > Robert Christopher Foster, that the trust deed now lying at the office > of Mr., Butler, of Hobart town, solicitor, to receive their signatures., > > All persons indebted to the estate of the said R. G. Foster, are > requested to pay the same forthwith either to the trustees or Mr. > Butler, no other person's receipt being now a discharge for any debt due > to the estate. > > April 24, 1833. > > Doesn't answer exactly if Foster took over Gardiner's store but does > prove they must have had business dealings for Gardiner to become a > trustee. So very likely that the store did swap hands between the pair... > > Cheers. > > Peter > > > > On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 11:46 AM, Douglas Burbury via > <aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com <mailto:aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com>> wrote: > > Hi all, > > Another long-shot query: > > Is anyone researching the above gentleman, who was a storekeeper and > building contractor in Campbell Town during the 1830s, and a licensed > victualler at Avoca during the 1840s? > > More specifically: when Robert Foster advertised goods for sale at his > store in Campbell Town in April 1832, was this the same store that John > Gardiner had offered for sale in January 1832? i.e. did Foster take over > Gardiner's business? > > Douglas > ------------------------------- > AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ > <http://www.rootsweb.com/%7Eaustashs/> > Contact Admin AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com > <mailto:AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com> > Search the Archive (type AUS-Tasmania in the list box) > http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-TASMANIA-request@rootsweb.com > <mailto:AUS-TASMANIA-request@rootsweb.com> with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > >

Hi everyone and a Happy New Year to all... Many of you here will know of our 32 year search for the death of my husband's great grandfather GEORGE BROWN. Very happy to report that, with thanks to the wonderful TROVE, we finally found his death 17 Jan 1925 at West Burnie, living with a new lady and new family. All is good there though and we are corresponding with the second family. As suspected GEORGE BROWN's death certificate gives his birthplace as DELORAINE. One answer leads to another question! There is no obvious birth for GEORGE BROWN on TPI. So we are hopeful that there will be baptism records that may hold the key to his parentage. >From information we lean towards JOHN BROWN and MARY ANN SMITH as parents, but given the number of Browns at Deloraine in the given time frame we desperately need proof. John Brown and Mary Ann Smith had an UNNAMED MALE at Deloraine on 26 Dec 1855 (registered at Westbury) and a WILLIAM BROWN born and reg. at Deloraine 20 Aug 1857. There were other children born in Launceston and Deloraine. Great grandfather GEORGE BROWN married SUSANNAH KNIGHTS 25 Dec 1876, his age given as 21 and Susannah's as 18 but she was still only 17. George's death certificate gives his age as 69, so points to birth 1855-1856. Susannah's sister HARRIET KNIGHTS married a WILLIAM BROWN 20 Jan 1881 and we feel we may have two brothers marrying two sisters. Harriet died very young and when William Brown died in Launceston 27 Jun 1924, he was then married to MARGARET MARSHALL. We have a possible birth range 1857-1858 for him. I have much research on JOHN BROWN and MARY ANN SMITH who married 25 Dec 1846 at York Street Chapel, Launceston - Baptist Congregational rites. It would be wonderful if this reearch could be put to use.... If any one can help or even has some thoughts about these people we would be most grateful. Wendy Brown (ex Tas now Central Qld)

Hi Douglas, This notice appears in the Hobart Town Courier 3 May 1833 - NOTICE TO CREDITORS. , ROBERT CHRISTOPHER FOSTER, of Campbell town, dealer, having executed a conveyance and assignment of all his estate and effects unto Sir. John Swan, of Hobart town, and Mr. John Gardiner, of Campbell town, as trustees for the benefit of such of his creditors as shall become parties to the trust deed : This is inform the creditors of the said Robert Christopher Foster, that the trust deed now lying at the office of Mr., Butler, of Hobart town, solicitor, to receive their signatures., All persons indebted to the estate of the said R. G. Foster, are requested to pay the same forthwith either to the trustees or Mr. Butler, no other person's receipt being now a discharge for any debt due to the estate. April 24, 1833. Doesn't answer exactly if Foster took over Gardiner's store but does prove they must have had business dealings for Gardiner to become a trustee. So very likely that the store did swap hands between the pair... Cheers. Peter On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 11:46 AM, Douglas Burbury via < aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > Another long-shot query: > > Is anyone researching the above gentleman, who was a storekeeper and > building contractor in Campbell Town during the 1830s, and a licensed > victualler at Avoca during the 1840s? > > More specifically: when Robert Foster advertised goods for sale at his > store in Campbell Town in April 1832, was this the same store that John > Gardiner had offered for sale in January 1832? i.e. did Foster take over > Gardiner's business? > > Douglas > ------------------------------- > AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ > Contact Admin AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com > Search the Archive (type AUS-Tasmania in the list box) > http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-TASMANIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi all, Another long-shot query: Is anyone researching the above gentleman, who was a storekeeper and building contractor in Campbell Town during the 1830s, and a licensed victualler at Avoca during the 1840s? More specifically: when Robert Foster advertised goods for sale at his store in Campbell Town in April 1832, was this the same store that John Gardiner had offered for sale in January 1832? i.e. did Foster take over Gardiner's business? Douglas

Hi Tim, Can't find any burial details for her in the St Matthew's C of E or the Old New Norfolk Cemetery books I have. The couple were married in St Peter's Catholic Church so perhaps she was buried in the old forgotten Catholic cemetery off the Glebe Road?? No records have been made available for St Peters except through contacting Sister Hall at the Catholic Dioceses Archives in Hobart. Cheers, Peter On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 9:33 PM, Meryl Yost via <aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Hi again Tim, > > An easier link to use: > > http://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD35-1-46p131j2k > > regards, > Meryl Yost, Launceston, Tasmania > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Administrator: AUS-Tasmania & AUS-Tas-Surnames mailing lists > AUS-Tasmania Genealogy pages > http://www.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Cordwell via" <aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com> > To: <AUS-Tasmania@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 9:17 PM > Subject: [AUS-Tas] Elisabeth Cordwell nee Rigby > > > I am researching Elisabeth Cordwell nee Rigby > > Parents George Rigby and Johanna Burns > > Elisabeth died at the age of 22 > > I am looking for > > <snipped> > ------------------------------- > AUS-Tasmania Mailing List Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ > Contact Admin AUS-Tasmania-Admin@rootsweb.com > Search the Archive (type AUS-Tasmania in the list box) > http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-TASMANIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi again Tim, An easier link to use: http://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD35-1-46p131j2k regards, Meryl Yost, Launceston, Tasmania ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Administrator: AUS-Tasmania & AUS-Tas-Surnames mailing lists AUS-Tasmania Genealogy pages http://www.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Cordwell via" <aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com> To: <AUS-Tasmania@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 9:17 PM Subject: [AUS-Tas] Elisabeth Cordwell nee Rigby I am researching Elisabeth Cordwell nee Rigby Parents George Rigby and Johanna Burns Elisabeth died at the age of 22 I am looking for <snipped>

Hi Tim, Her death certificate will give some of the information you are looking for: http://linctas.ent.sirsidynix.net.au/client/en_AU/names/search/detailnonmodal/ent:$002f$002fNAME_INDEXES$002f0$002fNAME_INDEXES:1210239/one regards, Meryl Yost, Launceston, Tasmania ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Administrator: AUS-Tasmania & AUS-Tas-Surnames mailing lists AUS-Tasmania Genealogy pages http://www.rootsweb.com/~austashs/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Cordwell via" <aus-tasmania@rootsweb.com> To: <AUS-Tasmania@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 9:17 PM Subject: [AUS-Tas] Elisabeth Cordwell nee Rigby I am researching Elisabeth Cordwell nee Rigby Parents George Rigby and Johanna Burns Elisabeth died at the age of 22 I am looking for . Her burial place . Reason for death . Maybe a coroner's report or death certificate stating cause of death Critical dates 7 Jul 1855 Born New Norfolk Tasmania 12 Jan 1875 Married John Patrick David Cordwell, St. Peters, New Norfolk 26 Jan 1875 David George Cordwell born, Lachlan 24 Dec 1875 Rachel Ann Cordwell born, Lachlan 13 Nov 1877 died New Norfolk Thank you Tim Cordwell

I am researching Elisabeth Cordwell nee Rigby Parents George Rigby and Johanna Burns Elisabeth died at the age of 22 I am looking for . Her burial place . Reason for death . Maybe a coroner's report or death certificate stating cause of death Critical dates 7 Jul 1855 Born New Norfolk Tasmania 12 Jan 1875 Married John Patrick David Cordwell, St. Peters, New Norfolk 26 Jan 1875 David George Cordwell born, Lachlan 24 Dec 1875 Rachel Ann Cordwell born, Lachlan 13 Nov 1877 died New Norfolk Thank you Tim Cordwell