Hi Rowena How can William Dawson and Susannah Parrish be married in SA with children born before 1836? I can think of scenarios which will confuse the picture even more! Cheers Ian in Perth On Mon Aug 16 12:16 , "Rowena Gough" sent: >Dear Listers > > > >Long email - apologies. I have a riddle with a Dawson family and was trying >to use naming conventions to help sort out the mystery. I wanted to discuss >naming conventions on the list, and whether they were consistently used >throughout Britain. My primary family genealogy has been in Cornwall and >Wales, and I've found it largely correlating with what is below: > > > >Sons >1st son named after father's father >2nd son named after mother's father >3rd son named after father >4th son named after father's eldest brother >5th son named after mother's eldest brother > > > >Daughters >1st daughter named after mother's mother >2nd daughter named after father's mother >3rd daughter named after mother >4th daughter named after mother's eldest sister >5th daughter named after father's eldest sister > >If both grandfathers had the same name, then the second son could be named >after the father. (I'm not sure what the source document was for this) > > > >I have used naming conventions with my Cornish forebears to help sort out >some family mystery's, but, from the early 1800's new names such as Albert >and Caroline have appeared in my tree, and they seem to correlate with the >Royalty, ie Princess Caroline of Brunswick. My GG grandfather John Knell >Pascoe, appears to have been named after a famous Cornishman of the day John >Knell, after his father who had been married twice and fathered many >children, ran out of names in the 2nd family and he and his wife became a >little more creative. > > > >I also had an interesting instance where the children born to a Pascoe >family changed noticeably in a particular generation. The father Francis was >named after his father Francis, his only sibling had died, and the wife's >parents had identical names to her husband's, and so after the children were >named Francis, Frances, and Fanny (and a few other children named Frances >and Fanny had died) , the wife's siblings named were used in the order that >they were born. The wife's family had a different group of names, so it was >interesting to see the change that took place. > > > >It also looks as though in the mid to late 1800's the naming convention >broke down, and beyond naming after their parents and themselves, children >were named after favourite siblings, and increasingly the fashion of the >day, whether that was royalty or a revered public figure. I noticed at the >time of the Boer war that some some girls whose fathers served has middle >names of places like Pretoria, or a revered general. I would be interested >to hear you thoughts on this. > > > >And separately, the mystery. > >The Dawson issue that I am looking at, is the lack of a birth record for a >James Dawson born c.1843. He died in 1848 in Adelaide, father named William. >Now, at that time there were 2 William Dawson's in Adelaide producing >children. Which one? So, I thought I would look at dates and timeframes of >birth in the 2 families and possible naming conventions. The 2 families are: > > > >William Dawson (likely b.c.1811 Hampshire to James Dawson & Charlotte Burt) >and Mary Ann Whitcher (likely b.c.1809 Bucks to John Whitcher and Louisa >Chissel) married. 1838 Buckinghamshire. William Dawson's siblings were Ann, >Harriett, Caroline, and George. Wm Dawson, wife and child emigrated 1839 to >Adelaide on the ship Moffat. > >Children of Wm Dawson and Mary Ann Whitcher: > >1. Louisa b.1839 Great Missenden, Buckinghamshire (maternal >grandmother's name) > >2. Possible James birth if late 1842 / early 1843. > >3. Mary Ann Dawson b. 8 Nov 1844 Adelaide. (mother's name) > >Mary Ann died in 1849, and William married Jane Shugg (parents William Shugg >and Hannah Freeman) and Jane's siblings included a brother Edward and his >wife Matilda. > >Children of Wm Dawson and Jane Shugg: > >1. William James b.1851 (Wm both father's, and James paternal >grandfather's name) > >2. Charlotte Freeman b.1854 (paternal grandmother 1st name, maternal >grandmother surname) > >3. Caroline b.1856 (paternal aunt) > >4. Alfred Burt b.1857 (Alfred? Burt is paternal mother's surname) > >5. Matilda b.1863 (? Possibly favourite brother's wife) > >6. George Edward b.1866 (George father's only brother, Edw mother's >brother closest in age to her in large family) > > > >William Dawson and Susannah Parrish. Not a family I've researched so, I >don't know their antecedents. If someone has, that would be fabulous to have >a look at the naming patterns in this family. Married in Adelaide, don't' >know if their parents were noted on marriage record. > >Children of Wm Dawson and Susannah Parrish: > >1. Susannah b. 1821 > >2. William b.1824 > >3. Henry b.1826 > >4. Jane Green b.1829 > >5. Charles b.1831 > >6. George b.1833 > >7. John b. 1835 > >8. Frances b. 1838 > >9. Charlotte b. 1841 > >10. Possible James birth c.1843 > >11. Samuel Hugh b. 1845 > > > >You can see my dilemma with James born c.1843, and that theoretically he >would have fitted within both families. > > > >So, am I turning myself inside out here, to try and solve a puzzle? Any >ideas? I would be interested to hear you thoughts on this. > > > >Kind regards, > >Rowena > > > >Advertising on AUS-SAGEN is forbidden by Rootsweb Rules. >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-SAGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >)

Quite right Ian. I quickly copied information provided to me from a Dawson/Parrish descendant. I should have double checked before I posted - sloppy of me - apologies. William Dawson and Susannah Parrish married 9 Apr 1820, Tottenham, London (IGI member submitted record). Children born in UK: 1. Susannah b. 1821 London (IGI extracted parish record) 2. William b.1824 Kent (IGI member no source given) 3. Henry b.1826 (IGI member no source given) 4. Jane Green b.1829 Kent (IGI extract) 5. Charles William b.1831 (IGI member no source given) 6. George b.1833 (IGI member no source given) 7. John b.1835 (IGI member no source given) 8. Frances b.1838 (IGI extract) There is only a Francis Edward registration on FreeBMD for 1839 in Stepney, London. 9. Charlotte b.1841 (IGI member no source given) FreeBMD records in 1841, Islington RD, and in 1842 Tonbridge, Kent. Having checked, the majority of births of these children are not recorded baptisms copied by the LDS for the IGI. They are member submitted records, most likely calculated back by ages given at death, so the accuracy is open to question. O could only cross-check with FreeBMD for the last two. Rowena -----Original Message----- From: ian simon [mailto:ians@iinet.net.au] Sent: Monday, 16 August 2010 2:24 PM To: AUS-SAGEN@rootsweb.com; 'Rowena Gough' Subject: Re: [AUS-SAGEN] Naming conventions, patterns and a Dawson riddle Hi Rowena How can William Dawson and Susannah Parrish be married in SA with children born before 1836? I can think of scenarios which will confuse the picture even more! Cheers Ian in Perth On Mon Aug 16 12:16 , "Rowena Gough" sent: >Dear Listers > > > >Long email - apologies. I have a riddle with a Dawson family and was trying >to use naming conventions to help sort out the mystery. I wanted to discuss >naming conventions on the list, and whether they were consistently used >throughout Britain. My primary family genealogy has been in Cornwall and >Wales, and I've found it largely correlating with what is below: > > > >Sons >1st son named after father's father >2nd son named after mother's father >3rd son named after father >4th son named after father's eldest brother >5th son named after mother's eldest brother > > > >Daughters >1st daughter named after mother's mother >2nd daughter named after father's mother >3rd daughter named after mother >4th daughter named after mother's eldest sister >5th daughter named after father's eldest sister > >If both grandfathers had the same name, then the second son could be named >after the father. (I'm not sure what the source document was for this) > > > >I have used naming conventions with my Cornish forebears to help sort out >some family mystery's, but, from the early 1800's new names such as Albert >and Caroline have appeared in my tree, and they seem to correlate with the >Royalty, ie Princess Caroline of Brunswick. My GG grandfather John Knell >Pascoe, appears to have been named after a famous Cornishman of the day John >Knell, after his father who had been married twice and fathered many >children, ran out of names in the 2nd family and he and his wife became a >little more creative. > > > >I also had an interesting instance where the children born to a Pascoe >family changed noticeably in a particular generation. The father Francis was >named after his father Francis, his only sibling had died, and the wife's >parents had identical names to her husband's, and so after the children were >named Francis, Frances, and Fanny (and a few other children named Frances >and Fanny had died) , the wife's siblings named were used in the order that >they were born. The wife's family had a different group of names, so it was >interesting to see the change that took place. > > > >It also looks as though in the mid to late 1800's the naming convention >broke down, and beyond naming after their parents and themselves, children >were named after favourite siblings, and increasingly the fashion of the >day, whether that was royalty or a revered public figure. I noticed at the >time of the Boer war that some some girls whose fathers served has middle >names of places like Pretoria, or a revered general. I would be interested >to hear you thoughts on this. > > > >And separately, the mystery. > >The Dawson issue that I am looking at, is the lack of a birth record for a >James Dawson born c.1843. He died in 1848 in Adelaide, father named William. >Now, at that time there were 2 William Dawson's in Adelaide producing >children. Which one? So, I thought I would look at dates and timeframes of >birth in the 2 families and possible naming conventions. The 2 families are: > > > >William Dawson (likely b.c.1811 Hampshire to James Dawson & Charlotte Burt) >and Mary Ann Whitcher (likely b.c.1809 Bucks to John Whitcher and Louisa >Chissel) married. 1838 Buckinghamshire. William Dawson's siblings were Ann, >Harriett, Caroline, and George. Wm Dawson, wife and child emigrated 1839 to >Adelaide on the ship Moffat. > >Children of Wm Dawson and Mary Ann Whitcher: > >1. Louisa b.1839 Great Missenden, Buckinghamshire (maternal >grandmother's name) > >2. Possible James birth if late 1842 / early 1843. > >3. Mary Ann Dawson b. 8 Nov 1844 Adelaide. (mother's name) > >Mary Ann died in 1849, and William married Jane Shugg (parents William Shugg >and Hannah Freeman) and Jane's siblings included a brother Edward and his >wife Matilda. > >Children of Wm Dawson and Jane Shugg: > >1. William James b.1851 (Wm both father's, and James paternal >grandfather's name) > >2. Charlotte Freeman b.1854 (paternal grandmother 1st name, maternal >grandmother surname) > >3. Caroline b.1856 (paternal aunt) > >4. Alfred Burt b.1857 (Alfred? Burt is paternal mother's surname) > >5. Matilda b.1863 (? Possibly favourite brother's wife) > >6. George Edward b.1866 (George father's only brother, Edw mother's >brother closest in age to her in large family) > > > >William Dawson and Susannah Parrish. Not a family I've researched so, I >don't know their antecedents. If someone has, that would be fabulous to have >a look at the naming patterns in this family. Married in Adelaide, don't' >know if their parents were noted on marriage record. > >Children of Wm Dawson and Susannah Parrish: > >1. Susannah b. 1821 > >2. William b.1824 > >3. Henry b.1826 > >4. Jane Green b.1829 > >5. Charles b.1831 > >6. George b.1833 > >7. John b. 1835 > >8. Frances b. 1838 > >9. Charlotte b. 1841 > >10. Possible James birth c.1843 > >11. Samuel Hugh b. 1845 > > > >You can see my dilemma with James born c.1843, and that theoretically he >would have fitted within both families. > > > >So, am I turning myself inside out here, to try and solve a puzzle? Any >ideas? I would be interested to hear you thoughts on this. > > > >Kind regards, > >Rowena > > > >Advertising on AUS-SAGEN is forbidden by Rootsweb Rules. >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-SAGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >)