We have sent for another certificate this time we have told them we want a certificate without the surname blacked out We sent the money as well again Surely someone in that office will have some sense and send back the money [ twice is a bit much] It has been my experience in the game that second names - a lot of them- have been added after the birth So she may have been just Elsie in the records. I had a man who was just James in the birth and Baptism records in England but when he came to Aus he became James John nowhere was his name recorded at James John - this has happed a lot of time to me? So Elsie may just be Elsie and her mother may be a Hartman or grandmother ect Thankyou to all who gave me advice I will wait and see if they send back the real thing this time Jill