Hello Ray, Just to let you know that I have a John BUTLER, Stone Engraver married to a Ann Nora McBRIDE, their daughter Sarah Mary according to her death certificate was born in Dublin.c 1843-7. That's all I know about this family. Have never been game enough to venture into Irish research yet. Has anyone out there had any success with searching in Ireland [especially Dublin],and how far back have you been able to go. I think that because I only have Dublin to go on, that any research that I may try to undertake would be useless because I don't appear to have any specific area of Dublin, Also, I am wary of information given on Death Cert. For all I know the family may only have known that she sailed from Dublin but she wasn't actually born there. Maybe one day. Cheers Bev -----Original Message----- From: Ray Allum <raye@netspace.net.au> To: AUS-QLD-SE-Germans-L@rootsweb.com <AUS-QLD-SE-Germans-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Sunday, 24 February 2002 6:58 Subject: German/Irish Connection >Dear Bev, Beverly and List, > >As no one has objected to Bev Kerlin's suggestion that we post German / >Irsh connections I would like to post the following as it may be of >interest to the list. > >I am also interested in the German / Irish connections. I know we do have >Sydney and NSW subscribers on this list and I hope Bev and Beverly won't >object if we can include NSW as well as South East Queensland German / >Irish conections. Several of my German ancestors families moved from NSW to >Queensland and settled in Warwick, Toowoomba, Charleville and Roma and >their descendents still live in Queensland today. I am sure there are >others with similar ancestry as there is evidence that a number of German >immigrants who arrived in Moreton Bay, later settled in NSW. Many Catholic >males with Germanic origins married Irish girls after their arrival in >Ausstralia. > >I hope someone may be able to assist with the following: > >I have been researching how and why Germans changed their names from the >mid 19th century onwards. > >There are some fascinating NSW indexes and registers dating from 1875 and >cover the intervening years until the NSW BDMs took over this function on >1st April 1996. "Change of Name by Deed Poll Oaths" are held in the Land >and Property Information Sydney Office, formerely the Land Titles Office. I >am sure similar records exist in other States. > >In addition to the above registers there are also "Change of Name" files >held in the National Archives of Australia (NAA). > >I extended my research to include WW1 period. I decided to see how many >Germans and other nationalities changed their names under sect.17a of the >Alien Restriction Act of 1915. There are several series of records held in >the NAA National Office where change of name files can be located. The >suggestion that lots of Germans changed their names or at the very least >anglised their names by choice only during WW1 has always been >controversial as many Germans voluntarily or involuntarily had name changes >long before WW1 and WW11. > >My research has been rewarding and in one of the NAA change of name files, >Series A456/3 Item W8/28/105 I found that Mary Helena Schultz was born in >Balmain, Sydney on 7th May 1860. Her parents were William Schultz and Anna >Mc Bride who were married in 1856 in Balmain. William Shultz arrived in >Sydney in 1854 on the Undine. On Eric Kopittke's Hamburg Immigrants to >Australia he is listed as coming from Glasow, which is in Mecklenberg >Schwerin, occupation carpenter. Interesting that William married an Irish >lady 2 years after arriving in Australia. > >Their ages suggest that perhaps both parties may have been married before! >as Mc Bride would seem to be a Scottich name. However Hannah [sic] Anna is >recorded on Mary Helena's birth certificate as born in Ireland. I would >have to see the marriage certificate to find out if this information was >true as perhaps one or both parties were perhaps widowed by 1856. > >William Schultz a carpenter aged 34 yrs. born in Mecklenberg Schwerin, his >bride Anna Mc Bride aged 28 yrs. born in Ireland, as recorded on Mary >Helens's birth certificate (a copy of her birth certificate was included in >her file). It would be interesting to know more about William, Anna and >their family. The other children I have located so far, as indexed in the >NSW BDMs are William born 1856/163, Reka W born 1859/2315, Charles A >1862/2259, Frederick 1864/2489 and Ernest L 1864/2726. William Schultz was >naturalized on 25th April 1856 and died aged 91 yrs on 1st June 1917/5645. > >On 3rd July 1917 Mary Helena Schultz changed her surname to her mother's >name of Mc Bride, just one month after her father's death. So far I am >unable to find a marriage or death record for her. If anyone has family >connections to her parents Anna and William Schultz or knows what became of >their daughter after she changed her name to Mary Helena Mc Bride, I would >love to hear from them. It appears that none of the other children in the >Schultz family registered a change of name. > >Thank you in advance if any "detectives" out there can help with this family. > >Elizabeth in Sydney, NSW. > >Bev Kerlin wrote: > >I have to talk with Beverly and Jim here. What do you two think about all >of this? We are all bound together, German and Irish, and it sure as heck >seems sensible to share! Is there a problem sending CCs to AUST-IRISH when >we send our SEQ German mail, if it includes Irish folk - and vice versa? I >think there are quite a few who have joint heritage but don't know where to >go to 'talk'. May be there's a site? > >Would you two valued List Owners give your views please? > >Bev > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Phillip MURPHY" <murkolein@bigpond.com> >To: "Bev Kerlin" <kerlindavidbev@ozemail.com.au>; ><AUS-QLD-SE-Germans-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 5:12 PM >Subject: Irish & Germans > > >> >Hi fellow Listers, >> > >> >Might I take the opportunity to endorse Bev's >> >remarks made on the SE-Qld-Germans list, and here, and encourage >> >everybody to share the information they have on ancestors who were >> >either Irish or Germanic and intermarried, and helped settle in South >> >East Queensland, so that we might get an idea of how much of a >> >comtribution the families made. > > > >============================== >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Ray Allum <raye@netspace.net.au> suggested on 24 Feb that "Many Catholic males with Germanic origins married Irish girls after their arrival in Australia". The relationship between immigrant German men and Irish women might not be just related to religion. My g-grandfather Georg WEDEMEYER was baptised in the Evangelical (Protestant) church on 29 Mar 1825 in the Markt Parish, Goslar, Hanover, Germany. He married Elizabeth DAVIS on 27 Sep 1862 Gayndah, Queensland. Elizabeth DAVIS was born 1839, Westmeath, Ireland and was buried in the Catholic section of the Bundaberg Cemetery. -- ******************************************** Name : Philip Strong Email : plstrong@pnc.com.au Location: Blue Mountains, Australia. Researching: WEDEMEYER Most of the WEDEMEYERS in the Queensland telephone book are related through George Henry Louis WEDEMEYER of Gayndah Qld. ********************************************