Dear Bev, Beverly and List, As no one has objected to Bev Kerlin's suggestion that we post German / Irsh connections I would like to post the following as it may be of interest to the list. I am also interested in the German / Irish connections. I know we do have Sydney and NSW subscribers on this list and I hope Bev and Beverly won't object if we can include NSW as well as South East Queensland German / Irish conections. Several of my German ancestors families moved from NSW to Queensland and settled in Warwick, Toowoomba, Charleville and Roma and their descendents still live in Queensland today. I am sure there are others with similar ancestry as there is evidence that a number of German immigrants who arrived in Moreton Bay, later settled in NSW. Many Catholic males with Germanic origins married Irish girls after their arrival in Ausstralia. I hope someone may be able to assist with the following: I have been researching how and why Germans changed their names from the mid 19th century onwards. There are some fascinating NSW indexes and registers dating from 1875 and cover the intervening years until the NSW BDMs took over this function on 1st April 1996. "Change of Name by Deed Poll Oaths" are held in the Land and Property Information Sydney Office, formerely the Land Titles Office. I am sure similar records exist in other States. In addition to the above registers there are also "Change of Name" files held in the National Archives of Australia (NAA). I extended my research to include WW1 period. I decided to see how many Germans and other nationalities changed their names under sect.17a of the Alien Restriction Act of 1915. There are several series of records held in the NAA National Office where change of name files can be located. The suggestion that lots of Germans changed their names or at the very least anglised their names by choice only during WW1 has always been controversial as many Germans voluntarily or involuntarily had name changes long before WW1 and WW11. My research has been rewarding and in one of the NAA change of name files, Series A456/3 Item W8/28/105 I found that Mary Helena Schultz was born in Balmain, Sydney on 7th May 1860. Her parents were William Schultz and Anna Mc Bride who were married in 1856 in Balmain. William Shultz arrived in Sydney in 1854 on the Undine. On Eric Kopittke's Hamburg Immigrants to Australia he is listed as coming from Glasow, which is in Mecklenberg Schwerin, occupation carpenter. Interesting that William married an Irish lady 2 years after arriving in Australia. Their ages suggest that perhaps both parties may have been married before! as Mc Bride would seem to be a Scottich name. However Hannah [sic] Anna is recorded on Mary Helena's birth certificate as born in Ireland. I would have to see the marriage certificate to find out if this information was true as perhaps one or both parties were perhaps widowed by 1856. William Schultz a carpenter aged 34 yrs. born in Mecklenberg Schwerin, his bride Anna Mc Bride aged 28 yrs. born in Ireland, as recorded on Mary Helens's birth certificate (a copy of her birth certificate was included in her file). It would be interesting to know more about William, Anna and their family. The other children I have located so far, as indexed in the NSW BDMs are William born 1856/163, Reka W born 1859/2315, Charles A 1862/2259, Frederick 1864/2489 and Ernest L 1864/2726. William Schultz was naturalized on 25th April 1856 and died aged 91 yrs on 1st June 1917/5645. On 3rd July 1917 Mary Helena Schultz changed her surname to her mother's name of Mc Bride, just one month after her father's death. So far I am unable to find a marriage or death record for her. If anyone has family connections to her parents Anna and William Schultz or knows what became of their daughter after she changed her name to Mary Helena Mc Bride, I would love to hear from them. It appears that none of the other children in the Schultz family registered a change of name. Thank you in advance if any "detectives" out there can help with this family. Elizabeth in Sydney, NSW. Bev Kerlin wrote: I have to talk with Beverly and Jim here. What do you two think about all of this? We are all bound together, German and Irish, and it sure as heck seems sensible to share! Is there a problem sending CCs to AUST-IRISH when we send our SEQ German mail, if it includes Irish folk - and vice versa? I think there are quite a few who have joint heritage but don't know where to go to 'talk'. May be there's a site? Would you two valued List Owners give your views please? Bev ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phillip MURPHY" <murkolein@bigpond.com> To: "Bev Kerlin" <kerlindavidbev@ozemail.com.au>; <AUS-QLD-SE-Germans-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 5:12 PM Subject: Irish & Germans > >Hi fellow Listers, > > > >Might I take the opportunity to endorse Bev's > >remarks made on the SE-Qld-Germans list, and here, and encourage > >everybody to share the information they have on ancestors who were > >either Irish or Germanic and intermarried, and helped settle in South > >East Queensland, so that we might get an idea of how much of a > >comtribution the families made.

Hi Elizabeth, Did you try the spelling of Mc/Mac BRYDE? My husband's family of MEYER seemed to change from the MEYER to MYERS when it was recorded on a Marriage Cert. in 1870 at Little Plain NSW (another German influence area). A note from another relative suggested the name changed due to the WWI uprising, this we were able to dispel by having the Certificates to prove otherwise. Regards Jenny Jenny Myers - Arcadia Vale NSW on beautiful Lake Macquarie President Lake Macquarie F H Group NSW http://www.lmfhg.hl.com.au OPEN DAY & WORKSHOP, Club Macquarie, Saturday 9 March, 2002. Member Wivelsfield History Study Group SSX Member Maitland F H Circle NSW Member Armidale F H Group NSW

Dear Jenny, Thank you, I have now located Mary Helena Mc Bride (indexed under Mc Bryde), she died in Sydney & apparently she didn't marry. Not many Mc Brydes listed in NSW though. Cheers Elizabeth At 12:11 AM 25/02/2002 +1100, you wrote: >Hi Elizabeth, > >Did you try the spelling of Mc/Mac BRYDE? > >My husband's family of MEYER seemed to change from the MEYER to MYERS when >it was recorded on a Marriage Cert. in 1870 at Little Plain NSW (another >German influence area). > >A note from another relative suggested the name changed due to the WWI >uprising, this we were able to dispel by having the Certificates to prove >otherwise. > >Regards >Jenny > >Jenny Myers - Arcadia Vale NSW on beautiful Lake Macquarie >President Lake Macquarie F H Group NSW http://www.lmfhg.hl.com.au >OPEN DAY & WORKSHOP, Club Macquarie, Saturday 9 March, 2002. > >Member Wivelsfield History Study Group SSX >Member Maitland F H Circle NSW >Member Armidale F H Group NSW > > >

Hello All, to Elizabeth in particular, and our two lenient List Owners I have left the 'threads' here for our Irish researchers. Please forgive this. I personally hate having miles of 'old stuff' to read!! Elizabeth, you may find it a help to join the AUS-IRISH group and CC any further correspondence to them. Your research is impressive to say the least. I note we already have another German/Irish Lister. That is really great. In our quest for KERLINs worldwide, we have come across several MC BRIDE names, mainly in Northern Ireland. Can you identify a County and I will have a look around our files. I have several SCHULTZ and SCHULZ names in my PAF file, but your Mary does not appear there. Would you mind sending Eric's URL to me off-list please? Good luck all Bev kerlindavidbev@ozemail.com.au Researching: KERLIN/BELL Co Down, HARRISON/WILLIS Co Armagh (Ireland] BARKER/YOUNG or YOUNGs Norfolk, BARNETT/CANTLE Gloucester, COURTNEY/DALTON Camberwell [England] GIESEMANN/TIMM [Prussia], HANSEN/HENDRIKSEN etc [Denmark] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Allum" <raye@netspace.net.au> To: <AUS-QLD-SE-Germans-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 6:55 PM Subject: German/Irish Connection > Dear Bev, Beverly and List, > > As no one has objected to Bev Kerlin's suggestion that we post German / > Irsh connections I would like to post the following as it may be of > interest to the list. > > I am also interested in the German / Irish connections. I know we do have > Sydney and NSW subscribers on this list and I hope Bev and Beverly won't > object if we can include NSW as well as South East Queensland German / > Irish conections. Several of my German ancestors families moved from NSW to > Queensland and settled in Warwick, Toowoomba, Charleville and Roma and > their descendents still live in Queensland today. I am sure there are > others with similar ancestry as there is evidence that a number of German > immigrants who arrived in Moreton Bay, later settled in NSW. Many Catholic > males with Germanic origins married Irish girls after their arrival in > Ausstralia. > > I hope someone may be able to assist with the following: > > I have been researching how and why Germans changed their names from the > mid 19th century onwards. > > There are some fascinating NSW indexes and registers dating from 1875 and > cover the intervening years until the NSW BDMs took over this function on > 1st April 1996. "Change of Name by Deed Poll Oaths" are held in the Land > and Property Information Sydney Office, formerely the Land Titles Office. I > am sure similar records exist in other States. > > In addition to the above registers there are also "Change of Name" files > held in the National Archives of Australia (NAA). > > I extended my research to include WW1 period. I decided to see how many > Germans and other nationalities changed their names under sect.17a of the > Alien Restriction Act of 1915. There are several series of records held in > the NAA National Office where change of name files can be located. The > suggestion that lots of Germans changed their names or at the very least > anglised their names by choice only during WW1 has always been > controversial as many Germans voluntarily or involuntarily had name changes > long before WW1 and WW11. > > My research has been rewarding and in one of the NAA change of name files, > Series A456/3 Item W8/28/105 I found that Mary Helena Schultz was born in > Balmain, Sydney on 7th May 1860. Her parents were William Schultz and Anna > Mc Bride who were married in 1856 in Balmain. William Shultz arrived in > Sydney in 1854 on the Undine. On Eric Kopittke's Hamburg Immigrants to > Australia he is listed as coming from Glasow, which is in Mecklenberg > Schwerin, occupation carpenter. Interesting that William married an Irish > lady 2 years after arriving in Australia. > > Their ages suggest that perhaps both parties may have been married before! > as Mc Bride would seem to be a Scottich name. However Hannah [sic] Anna is > recorded on Mary Helena's birth certificate as born in Ireland. I would > have to see the marriage certificate to find out if this information was > true as perhaps one or both parties were perhaps widowed by 1856. > > William Schultz a carpenter aged 34 yrs. born in Mecklenberg Schwerin, his > bride Anna Mc Bride aged 28 yrs. born in Ireland, as recorded on Mary > Helens's birth certificate (a copy of her birth certificate was included in > her file). It would be interesting to know more about William, Anna and > their family. The other children I have located so far, as indexed in the > NSW BDMs are William born 1856/163, Reka W born 1859/2315, Charles A > 1862/2259, Frederick 1864/2489 and Ernest L 1864/2726. William Schultz was > naturalized on 25th April 1856 and died aged 91 yrs on 1st June 1917/5645. > > On 3rd July 1917 Mary Helena Schultz changed her surname to her mother's > name of Mc Bride, just one month after her father's death. So far I am > unable to find a marriage or death record for her. If anyone has family > connections to her parents Anna and William Schultz or knows what became of > their daughter after she changed her name to Mary Helena Mc Bride, I would > love to hear from them. It appears that none of the other children in the > Schultz family registered a change of name. > > Thank you in advance if any "detectives" out there can help with this family. > > Elizabeth in Sydney, NSW. > > Bev Kerlin wrote: > > I have to talk with Beverly and Jim here. What do you two think about all > of this? We are all bound together, German and Irish, and it sure as heck > seems sensible to share! Is there a problem sending CCs to AUST-IRISH when > we send our SEQ German mail, if it includes Irish folk - and vice versa? I > think there are quite a few who have joint heritage but don't know where to > go to 'talk'. May be there's a site? > > Would you two valued List Owners give your views please? > > Bev > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Phillip MURPHY" <murkolein@bigpond.com> > To: "Bev Kerlin" <kerlindavidbev@ozemail.com.au>; > <AUS-QLD-SE-Germans-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 5:12 PM > Subject: Irish & Germans > > > > >Hi fellow Listers, > > > > > >Might I take the opportunity to endorse Bev's > > >remarks made on the SE-Qld-Germans list, and here, and encourage > > >everybody to share the information they have on ancestors who were > > >either Irish or Germanic and intermarried, and helped settle in South > > >East Queensland, so that we might get an idea of how much of a > > >comtribution the families made. > > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

original --- suggestion that we post German / Irsh connections. -- I am as you can see subscribed to AUS QLD SE German even tho I have no research here in Qld. I find the people on this list very knowledgeable and as such I stay because I may learn from you. My German gg went to Victoria (just over the border of NSW!) in 1852 and married his IRish wife in 1854. original ---- on this list and I hope Bev and Beverly won't > > object if we can include NSW as well as -- I've yet to get my teeth into my German and Irish greatgrandparents, time has been the killer to date, other research being the focus. So instead of taking Qld adding NSW and then perhaps on and on, may I suggest (don't shoot me down in flames please (grin) )that we have a German -Irish AUS list. In the course of my research of the north east of Victoria I"ve noticed few GErman - Irish relationships, and of course lots of Germans, some of whom ended up in NSW and Queensland. Anyone out there willing to "operate" a GErman/Irish Aus list? In the meantime I do have the P/Godeffroy list into Sydney in 1852 and the Victoria into Melbourne in 1854 if anyone would like a look up. Denise