I am more than a little unclear on this but: As I have learned, I think, many of the ships bringing German migrants to Australia left Hamburg or Bremen and sailed to English ports. They actually got their clearance to sail for the colonies at that port and hence they are recorded as leaving an English port. Another factor I found is that some Germans left their homeland bound for the USA. They arrived at the English port and because of whatever was happening in the USA, and that seems to be more varied than just a civil war. The ship and its cargo were then re-directed to the Australian colonies. So they may well have left Denmark, Sweden or Germany and the ship docked in Plymouth before embarking for Australia. Albert Grulke -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of McLaren Sent: Thursday, 13 March 2008 9:01 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [SEQ-Germans] Sea route from Scandinavia/Germany My Carlson ancestors came to Queensland on the Goalpara in 1884 - passenger list has ship leaving from Plymouth, England. How would they have gotten from Denmark/Sweden/Germany to Plymouth? Faye McLaren A List for the research for the descendants of the Germans who migrated to South East Queensland, Australia. Archives - http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/AUS-QLD-SE-Germans.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Albert. Faye ----- Original Message ----- From: "albert grulke" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 8:19 AM Subject: Re: [SEQ-Germans] Sea route from Scandinavia/Germany >I am more than a little unclear on this but: > As I have learned, I think, many of the ships bringing German migrants to > Australia left Hamburg or Bremen and sailed to English ports. They > actually > got their clearance to sail for the colonies at that port and hence they > are > recorded as leaving an English port. > Another factor I found is that some Germans left their homeland bound for > the USA. They arrived at the English port and because of whatever was > happening in the USA, and that seems to be more varied than just a civil > war. The ship and its cargo were then re-directed to the Australian > colonies. > So they may well have left Denmark, Sweden or Germany and the ship docked > in > Plymouth before embarking for Australia. > Albert Grulke > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of McLaren > Sent: Thursday, 13 March 2008 9:01 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [SEQ-Germans] Sea route from Scandinavia/Germany > > My Carlson ancestors came to Queensland on the Goalpara in 1884 - > passenger > list has ship leaving from Plymouth, England. How would they have gotten > from Denmark/Sweden/Germany to Plymouth? > > Faye McLaren > A List for the research for the descendants of the Germans who migrated to > South East Queensland, Australia. > Archives - > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/AUS-QLD-SE-Germans.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

My reading of various books and documents indicates that in 1879 the Queensland Government directed its Agent-General in London to terminate all assisted immigration from Germany and the Scandanavian countries and also to reduce the intake from the British Isles. In 1880 limited immigration was re-introduced but the only Germans brought out on a free passage were those nominated by relatives or friends in the Colony of Queensland. They were expected to pay their own way to Plymouth for embarkation on British ships and sail with British and other migrants. In 1884 London replaced Plymouth as the main port of embarkation. It was seen as an advantage to sail on a British ship as that enabled the German passengers to learn some English and to gain some understanding of the Anglo-Saxon way of life. I have not found anything to suggest that German migrants changed their minds about their destination along the way - although this could have been the case with some - or that ships destinations were changed along the way. It appears that most German migration was arranged by Agents who were paid fees by the Country of destination e.g. Queensland and any change of destination would have been resisted strongly or perhaps made impossible by the Agents who, I believe, issued some at least of the documentation for travel. Alan NITZ. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of albert grulke Sent: Friday, 14 March 2008 8:20 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [SEQ-Germans] Sea route from Scandinavia/Germany I am more than a little unclear on this but: As I have learned, I think, many of the ships bringing German migrants to Australia left Hamburg or Bremen and sailed to English ports. They actually got their clearance to sail for the colonies at that port and hence they are recorded as leaving an English port. Another factor I found is that some Germans left their homeland bound for the USA. They arrived at the English port and because of whatever was happening in the USA, and that seems to be more varied than just a civil war. The ship and its cargo were then re-directed to the Australian colonies. So they may well have left Denmark, Sweden or Germany and the ship docked in Plymouth before embarking for Australia. Albert Grulke -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of McLaren Sent: Thursday, 13 March 2008 9:01 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [SEQ-Germans] Sea route from Scandinavia/Germany My Carlson ancestors came to Queensland on the Goalpara in 1884 - passenger list has ship leaving from Plymouth, England. How would they have gotten from Denmark/Sweden/Germany to Plymouth? Faye McLaren A List for the research for the descendants of the Germans who migrated to South East Queensland, Australia. Archives - http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/AUS-QLD-SE-Germans.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message A List for the research for the descendants of the Germans who migrated to South East Queensland, Australia. Archives - http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/AUS-QLD-SE-Germans.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I feel I, too, would question the statement that "many of the ships bringing German migrants toAustralia left Hamburg or Bremen and sailed to English ports." This may, in deed, have been the situation in some instances and may be more relevant to 'German' immigration in the latter part of the 19th century; a period, I admit, I don't know a lot about. However, I don't believe it was prevalent practice in the mid 1800s. As Alan has stated, a great majority of the German immigrants to Australia were bought out under various Government-instigated schemes. A great deal of time, organization and money was involved in such ventures and the major parties involved certainly didn't make it a practice to change their minds 'willy-nilly' re. ports, destinations, etc. In fact, in the isolated cases where an immigration agent, or similar, breached their obligations, a great fuss resulted; measures taken to recoup monies expended, reputations besmirched in the contemporary newspapers, Contracts terminated, etc. In addition, as these arrangements were made between sovereign 'German' states and the Colonies of New South Wales and/or Queensland, for example, a ship engaged by one of the immigration agents departing from Hamburg or Bremen surely wouldn't have required 'clearance' from an English port to sail to, say, Sydney or Moreton Bay, would it? I know that, in the case of the "Solon" - my pet obsession! - which departed Bremen for Moreton Bay in December 1858, she definitely did not call at an English port; although Lloyd's List does record that she was sighted off Ramsgate, England, on 30th December. Rgs Lisa Gladstone, Q > From: [email protected]> To: [email protected]> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 21:28:32 +1000> Subject: Re: [SEQ-Germans] Sea route from Scandinavia/Germany> > My reading of various books and documents indicates that in 1879 the> Queensland Government directed its Agent-General in London to terminate all> assisted immigration from Germany and the Scandanavian countries and also to> reduce the intake from the British Isles. In 1880 limited immigration was> re-introduced but the only Germans brought out on a free passage were those> nominated by relatives or friends in the Colony of Queensland. They were> expected to pay their own way to Plymouth for embarkation on British ships> and sail with British and other migrants. In 1884 London replaced Plymouth> as the main port of embarkation. It was seen as an advantage to sail on a> British ship as that enabled the German passengers to learn some English and> to gain some understanding of the Anglo-Saxon way of life.> I have not found anything to suggest that German migrants changed their> minds about their destination along the way - although this could have been> the case with some - or that ships destinations were changed along the way.> It appears that most German migration was arranged by Agents who were paid> fees by the Country of destination e.g. Queensland and any change of> destination would have been resisted strongly or perhaps made impossible by> the Agents who, I believe, issued some at least of the documentation for> travel.> > Alan NITZ.> _________________________________________________________________ It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 at CarPoint.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_OCT07&_m=EXT