I do not often find fault in what Chris says but I must this time. He is correct in that it has been common practice in past times for a child of a couple not married to adopt the surname of the mother. However in this age when so many couples fail to marry it has been my experience in church and in welfare work that the child carries the surname of the father if they are living in a de facto relationship or similar. In my case I have three sons who all married and two daughters would you believe who never married. The daughters children are in the father's surname. It is also very common now for women to retain their maiden name after marriage as well as in de facto relationships. I even find cases where the woman adopts his surname even thought they do not marry. It all adds to making my job difficult when we need marriage certificates and have to explain why they cannot be produced or do not agree with the real situation. "It used to be so easy before we made it all so simple." I owner did this happen in the apt more than we realise. I know that in my ancestors there air instances of the husband dying or disappearing and she reverted not to her maiden name but to the name of some earlier marriage or to the surname of the next bloke she amide or shacked up wish. It creates confusion when trying to sort out the children where in some cases we have three or four different surnames in one family. Albert grulke -----Original Message----- From: aus-qld-se-germans-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-qld-se-germans-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Chris Schmidt Sent: Monday, 19 July 2010 5:53 PM To: aus-qld-se-germans@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SEQ-Germans] Did German woman revert to maiden names after spousal deaths? Hi Even in English society it is only comparitively recent practice to go back to using your maiden name after a spouse died or after you were divorced. My dad died in 1989 at 53 and my mum doesn't use her maiden name. The normal reason for a child having the maiden name of a parent is illegitimicy. Often, and it is still quite common practice today, if the parents aren't actually married at the time of birth then the child will bear the maiden mame of the mother. It may be that they were engaged or married only shortly after but definitely in such a situation it was common practice for the child to take the maiden name of the mother. Regards Chris ________________________________ From: Martyn Smith <Martyn.Smith@optus.com.au> To: "aus-qld-se-germans@rootsweb.com" <aus-qld-se-germans@rootsweb.com>; "AUS-QLD-SE-Germans-L@rootsweb.com" <AUS-QLD-SE-Germans-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Mon, 19 July, 2010 1:37:45 PM Subject: [SEQ-Germans] Did German woman revert to maiden names after spousal deaths? Hi all, I have a German historical cultural question - If a husband of a German couple died in the 1860's would the wife be likely to still carry his surname or is it expected or commonly practised like in English society to revert to her maiden name? My ancestor, which I have previously blogged was Caroline Muller and she was born to a Carl Hoban and mother Caroline Blumery Muller (nee Blumreich). I am trying to ascertain why she would have carried her mothers maiden name (albeit spelt incorrectly). Can I assume that Caroline had given her daughter her maiden name because the father Carl had died.....?? Any thoughts very welcome Martyn Archives - http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/AUS-QLD-SE-Germans.html Quoting the entire text of a previous message in a reply is poor netiquette. Please don't do it. A List for the research for the descendants of the Germans who migrated to South East Queensland, Australia. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-QLD-SE-GERMANS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Archives - http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/AUS-QLD-SE-Germans.html Quoting the entire text of a previous message in a reply is poor netiquette. Please don't do it. A List for the research for the descendants of the Germans who migrated to South East Queensland, Australia. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-QLD-SE-GERMANS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

If I could add to Albert's email, I have found another problem in the 1800's in NSW, where children appeared to change parents. In our case, 2 of the girls were unmarried mothers, and the birth certificates showed the correct mother. It appears the grandparents must have raised the babies though, as by the time the grandparents died, the babies were listed on the death certificates as their children. I have yet to find out what happened to the mothers, as I've found no marriage certificates or death certificates, but then as Albert says, if the girls adopted a de facto name, that makes it harder. In an interesting twist, I found a mother and her unmarried daughter who gave birth within days of each other, the mother seems to have raised both children. That must have been an interesting house to live in for a while :-) Lisa Hannon Kareela, southern Sydney