Here's something for the SCHULTZ files, who has this guy and where does he go please?--just in case he's mine and I don't yet know it. Gladys Dorothy born 15 November 1911 at Rocky Creek, d/o Gustav Wilhelm Richard SCHULTZ of Millmerran, farmer, and bapt 25 Dec 1911 at Glencoe, sponsor Reinhold SCHULTZ and Anna KANOWSKI. Cheers Bev

One needs to be careful when discussing this question of name changes. There are two unrelated factors here. During World war One there was hostility toward the German especially in Queensland and South Australia. This seems crazy since both states owe their development to the Germanic migrants. To make it worse the English population could not distinguish between German and Polish or other European nationalities. Hence if you had a name that was not English you were German but might be French or Italian. It mattered not. A great number of people changed their names entirely or anglicised it. I learned recently that my grandfather changed his name and went to Bundaberg to work in the sugar mills. Somebody found out about his name change and his German background. He was dismissed for being a German even though he could not speak a word of German. He said 'Stuff them" and resumed his correct name. His brother changed his name to Robinson and went to Narrabri to work. His family all think they are Robinson. The second issue is changing names for other reasons. Today they do it by deed poll or are supposed to. I understand that they can be traced today because of records. My grandfather was born Schneider because that was his father. However father disappeared as soon as he found out that he was fertile and could father a son. The result was that his Mother changed her name back to Grulke, her first husband, and naturally changed sons name as well. I understand that this practice was common. Unlike now where the child gets the father's surname irrespective of the mother's surname. If there was a disappearing father they simply changed the names to the one the mother choose. It was common that if a girl got pregnant when she shouldn't that one of the parents (the girls or the boys) would raise the child as their own. Hence a girl might have a child that might be raised by the boy's parents as their child. The birth certificate would register one name and the child lived and died under another name. That is what my research into this is telling me. It suggests that there were no deed poll actions and it just happened because that was how they solved the problem whatever it was. Albert Grulke in wet miserable Melbourne

And it goes back further than that. My grandfather, geb. WENDSCHLAG and arriving as an infant in 1863 was WINSLOW by the time he married in the Anglican church in 1887. That is why it took me 25 years to find where he came from. I have often wondered why he anglicised his name and thought that he might have come from a different part of Prussia than the other Germans in Ipswich and did not fit in. His family came from East Brandenburg which is now in Poland. Paul. =================================================== > Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 03:56:31 +0000 > From: "Janice Nightingale" > <nightingalejanice@hotmail.com> > To: AUS-QLD-SE-Germans-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: Name changes > > Chris, > I'm sure someone else on the list can answer more > expertly. Most of my early > Germans changed their names around the turn of the =================================================== > Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 09:25:34 -0000 > From: "Beverly" <pussims@cableone.net> > To: AUS-QLD-SE-Germans-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: Name changes > > Janice, not only were there name changes, there was > a shift in religious > affiliation. This was done to appear more > Anglicised and to "fit in" a http://shopping.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Shopping - Get organised for Christmas early this year!

"The first German migrants into the Logan area south of Brisbane arrived in 1863. This was a party of ten families who came from Greiffenbach in Uckermark Prussia. They left their homeland for religious reasons. Some were from the Prussian State Church while others were from the Prussian Free Church. Both groups seem to have left their home church for identical reasons. Yet on arrival in Queensland they forgot their differences and began a new church." I have developed the above statement form information gathered over a time. I arrived at it while trying to establish the true reasons for our Germanic ancestors migrating to Australia. It seems from my research so far that apart from two ship loads of migrants to South Australia this may be the only other group to have came here for religious reasons. What I have not determined is: What were the religious reasons for their leaving their homeland? I gather that there were two groups. One group had 11 members and the other group had 22 members. The comment "They left their home church for identical reasons" does not seem correct. I wonder if some kind people can put me straight. I might mention that in my research about our Germanic ancestors I have an enormous story ready to start telling. Ninety nine percent of it has been gleaned from emails sent by listers to this link. For that I feel a huge debt and hope that I can do them all justice. Albert Grulke in sunny warm Melbourne

Would someone please be able to help me with the names of the children of the above Christoph ZANOW and his wife Wilhelmine HUMBERDROSS. Many thanks Cheers Bev

Hullo Beverley and Janice, These name changes have created headaches for me too. There is one thing that I have wondered about. Whenever I have been looking at passenger lists or the BDM I have found the surname MULLER or Müller, rarely MUELLER yet my mother who was a second generation Australian wrote her surname as MUELLER as well asthe other versions on her music books. I expected to find MUELLER in the German records. Has anyone any explanation? Thank you, Wendy ---------- >From: "Beverly" <pussims@cableONE.net> >To: AUS-QLD-SE-Germans-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: Name changes >Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 7:25 PM > >Janice, not only were there name changes, there was a shift in religious >affiliation. This was done to appear more Anglicised and to "fit in" a >little better. >The name changes and religious shift happened in my own family. They used >to be strict lutheran, but now we have just about every denomination >imaginable in our family. Seems like once they broke with the Lutheran >faith, then it turned into a free for all. >I also think that with the passing of the first generation immigrants the >strong influence to retain everything that was German (culture, language, >food, heirarchy, allegance etc.) was watered down or just completely lost. >Religion has caused lots of arguments. >Name changes have given us genealogical searchers headaches. >Makes me wish they left a paper trail for us to follow rather than having to >try to rectify one fact with another to put the family together. >cheers, Beverly. >Life on Earth is Expensive, but at least >you get a free trip around the sun....... >So wear a hat and enjoy the ride! > > > >============================== >Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp >

Hi Everyone, I apologise for passing on the virus to anyone. It appeared this morning in the form of .mp3 file and had done the damage before I realised what was going on - blame it on the early morning and not enough coffee yet. Have scanned and removed infected files, emails etc. so hopefully am now free. The virus detector tells me that I am. Once again, my apologies Cyn

Janice, not only were there name changes, there was a shift in religious affiliation. This was done to appear more Anglicised and to "fit in" a little better. The name changes and religious shift happened in my own family. They used to be strict lutheran, but now we have just about every denomination imaginable in our family. Seems like once they broke with the Lutheran faith, then it turned into a free for all. I also think that with the passing of the first generation immigrants the strong influence to retain everything that was German (culture, language, food, heirarchy, allegance etc.) was watered down or just completely lost. Religion has caused lots of arguments. Name changes have given us genealogical searchers headaches. Makes me wish they left a paper trail for us to follow rather than having to try to rectify one fact with another to put the family together. cheers, Beverly. Life on Earth is Expensive, but at least you get a free trip around the sun....... So wear a hat and enjoy the ride!

Dear Cynthia, It has been a rough few days with the virus. I doubt that you can take all the blame for its spread as I have found out that there are incidents of it appearing on other lists as well. I have no idea who unleashed this 'worm' but it has probably given Norton and McAfee and others a lot of business as people buy the programs or use the programs to rid themselves of this onslaught. cheers, Beverly. Life on Earth is Expensive, but at least you get a free trip around the sun....... So wear a hat and enjoy the ride!

Chris & Kerry, Fred KRETSCHMAR, who founded the band, was my Great Great Grandfather. My aunt mentions the following in her diary... In 1869 Fred found employment in a brass band that travelled around the country playing at races and other sports meetings. In one celebrated incident the bushranger Captain Thunderbolt, who had been on the loose since September 1863, held up Fred's band at Bonno Bonno Gap whilst they were on their way to the Tenterfield races. Thunderbolt had the bandsmen play tunes whilst he beat time with his revolver - before lightening them of their wallets. Thunderbolt took 20 quid from one of the players, Wirth. The group pleaded that they were poor men who had to work hard for their money. Thunderbolt told the men that if he, Thunderbolt, was successful in holding up the winner of the Tenterfield Handicap, Wirth should call into the Warwick Post Office were he would find his money waiting for him. As it turned out, Thunderbolt was successful in robbing the winner, and he kept his promise to Wirth!... A band, known as Mullers, was formed about 1876. During the late 1870s Fred became this band's Bandmaster. In 1878, in response to an invitation to compete with his band in the Queensland Championships in Brisbane, Kretschmar's Band won the Band Championship of Queensland. Members of the band were - Bandmaster Fred KRETSCHMAR, George JASSE, Gustav, Wilhelm and Henrich MULLER, George FARR, Harry and William GROTH, Harry KROME and August WINTER, with George BREMNER as Drum-major... During the 1880s the Toowoomba bandsmen joined forces with bandsmen from Warwick to form the Headquarters Band of the 4th Regiment. Fred was again made Bandmaster. The band, consisting of twenty-two members, made an imposing sight in their gray uniforms and white helmets... To thank Fred for all his work for the community a "Frederick Benefit Concert" was held in 1896. It commenced with a torchlight procession, including Kretschmar's Band and the Fire Brigade through the streets of Toowoomba. Fred was asked to present a cornet solo, which was well received by the large and appreciative audience. After the short interval a Mr J BAIN took a flashlight photograph of the audience. (This photograph is in the Darling Downs Gazette which is available on microfiche. I thought I had a copy of it - but can't lay my hands on it. I'll have to print it again.) Fred was presented with a purse of sovereigns by the appreciative townspeople... In 1898 Fred formed and was Bandmaster of a mounted band. The band often rode their horses carrying their instruments to Brisbane to take part in parades and processions as well as taking part in local events. In order to have their hands free to play their instruments on horseback the bandsmen controlled their horse's reins with their feet. Kretschmar's Toowoomba Band was very popular and the most efficient in the colony. Fred was often hailed as the best cornet player in Australia. This band became the Mounted Infantry Band towards the close of the 19th century. Fred became one of the outstanding names in band music throughout the state and the mounted infantry band was his brainchild. Kate (his daughter and my Great Grandmother) spoke proudly of weddings where her father's band played the bride to the church and later entertained at the reception... In 1901 Fred's mounted band lead the procession through Brisbane when the Duke of York (later King George V) and Duchess toured Australia at Federation. The Duke and Duchess arrived in Australia on 4 May and left on 7 June. The band was so appreciated they were asked to travel to Adelaide by steamer to play for the Duke and Duchess once more... Fred, Ambrosius (Fred's father) and George JASSE were the genesis of brass band music on the Darling Downs. As in most Australian colonies, the band movement began in earnest with the defence and military forces. Fred joined the first volunteer corps formed in Toowoomba shortly after his marriage and served for 40 years as an administrator and as a Bandmaster in civilian and military bands until he was invalided in 1916. His band, Kretschmar's Band, springing from small beginnings in the 1870s, introduced brass band music to many thousands of people in many parts of southeast Queensland. The bandsmen had to purchase their own instruments and defray all their own travelling expenses, but came together in a common love of music and the pleasure of presenting that music to others. Hope this helps your research. Sandra Searston ssearston@vtown.com.au scs@st-ursula.qld.edu.au (work)

This is Christina SCHWERIN, she was accidently shot by the son of the family where she was housekeeping at Crow's Nest Cheers Bev -----Original Message----- From: Janice Nightingale <nightingalejanice@hotmail.com> To: AUS-QLD-SE-Germans-L@rootsweb.com <AUS-QLD-SE-Germans-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Friday, 30 November 2001 4:03 Subject: Schwerin >Came across this today whilst looking for something else. >Deaths in Toowoomba Hospital 1899 >Tina Schwerin 15 yrs admitted October 29, 1899; died November 4, 1899 >information from the Darling Downs Gazette Wed Dec 20 1899 >The website was http://home.coffeeonline.com.au/~tfoen/toodeath.htm >It's worth a look for deaths and obits Toowoomba- end of the century >Hope this helps someone >Janice N' > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > >============================== >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 >Source for Family History Online. Go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=702&sourceid=1237

Chris, I'm sure someone else on the list can answer more expertly. Most of my early Germans changed their names around the turn of the century, Gottlieb Friedrich to Fred, Carl to Charles etc. I think it had a lot to do with the political situation in Germany at the time. The Kaiser becoming more aggressive and so forth. The fatherland was openly demanding that German immigrants in Australia support the Kaiser. There were marchs, rallies and so forth which caused some anti-german sentiment in some areas. I think one Lutheran church in Toowoomba was burned. Adopting a more anglicised forename was a step many immigrants took. My impression is that the majority identified more with their new home than the fatherland, and just wanted to be left alone to get on with their lives. My impression is that these were simply names they became 'known as' and were not formally adopted, for example by deed poll. I read a fascinating book about german immigrants during this period a while ago, but can't remeber what it was called. Hope this helps a little Janice N' _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Howdy all During the late 1800's was there any requirement to officially change ones first name. My great grandfather was August Modrow according to my grandfather's birth certificate in 1880. Though he is recorded as John in the Electoral Roll for the same year and following 4 years but then as Johan on the land deeds in 1885 when he took up land. I can understand the similarities between Johan and John but could they just change their name at will or did they have to record it officially some where. Chris Stewart Townsville

Hi all Strange I sent this yesterday afternoon, and an infected reply came in this morning - supposedly from Beverly!! Mine of yesterday was also addressed to Beverly together with our List address. Cheers Bev K ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bev Kerlin" <kerlindavidbev@ozemail.com.au> To: <AUS-QLD-SE-Germans-L@rootsweb.com> (and Beverly) Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 2:41 PM Subject: Thank you > Hello Beverly and All > > Thank you Beverly for warning me of that attachment this morning. Of > course, I'm only assuming it was you, because you are the only one who calls > me by my full name, although you usually spell it without the 'e'. It was > only a newsletter though, so it hit the bin anyway. > > I am wondering though, how you managed to get "into my mail box" and tack > your message on for me? > > Think I'm too old to try and figure out how these computers work - just as > long as my families don't get messed up!!! > > Talk later > Cheers > Bev > > kerlindavidbev@ozemail.com.au > Researching: > BELL HARRISON KERLIN WILLIS [Ireland] > BARKER BARNETT CANTLE COURTNEY DALTON YOUNG/YOUNGS [England] > GIESEMANN HANSEN HENDRIKSEN TIMM [Prussia, Denmark] > > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=702&sourceid=1237 > >

Hi All, I do not have any information on the Kretchmar's Brass Bank, but from what I can gather, Brass Bands were very popular in the time. In the book German Settlement in the Rosewood Scrub by Frank Snars, it has a section on social life and states: "The brass band was a popular institution in most country towns of the late nineteenth and eatly twentieth centuries. Members assembled resplendant in smart military type uniforms for special parades and processions and visits of VIP's, or to entertain the local community on Sunday afternoons. Posing here in front of the old school of arts is the Marburg Brass Band in 1910 which included many German names. Their minutes book records a constant struggle for survival; instruments were hard to obtain, let alone uniforms.... ...the more affluent Rosewood Band, some ten years later, in smart uniforms, awaits the arrival of State Governor, Sir Matthew Nathan, and the vice-regal party at Rosewood railway station (photo)." Kerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Buckley" <flutefan@australis.aunz.com> To: <AUS-QLD-SE-Germans-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 11:33 PM Subject: Kretchmar's Band > Hi everyone, > I have just found out that a number of my MULLER ancestors were in Kretchmar's Brass Band, a well known German band in the 1800's and into the early 1900's in Toowoomba. Does anyone have information on this band or know where I might find some. I am particularly interested in a photo of the band in the early 1900's. > > Chris Buckley > > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=702&sourceid=1237 > > >

Hi again, This bloke certainly belongs to the GASRKE family as outlined in my previous e-mail re SCHWERIN family. Cheers Bev. Toowoomba -----Original Message----- From: Beverly <pussims@cableONE.net> To: AUS-QLD-SE-Germans-L@rootsweb.com <AUS-QLD-SE-Germans-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Friday, 30 November 2001 6:18 Subject: Re: Garske, Anklem >Hello there, I have a whole family of GARSKE names in my data base. I have >a Joseph Martin GARSKE b. 1909 married to Evelyn Margaret (May) OTTO b. >1921. These two married in 1943 and had the following children. Lyndall, >Janice, Douglas, Leone, Daryl and Lorelle. >May Otto is descended through my TROST line. >Do you think that this particular family is part of your lot? I think they >are from Cawdor but not sure. >cheers, >Beverly. >Life on Earth is Expensive, but at least >you get a free trip around the sun....... >So wear a hat and enjoy the ride! > > > >============================== >Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp

Julie, Have you seen the book SCHWERIN and Associated Families by John and Vicki SCHWERIN, in it there is the whole family up till about 1993 of Albert Stephen GARSKE and Maria Agnes SCHWERIN. For any one else interested these are the other families that are associated with the SCHWERIN family. Anna Catharina SCHWERIN married Gottlieb LUBOMIRSKI Franz August SCHWERIN married Emilia Augusta KEDING Josef Michael SCHWERIN married Caroline Magdalene JENSEN Justina Paulina SCHWERIN married Dominick BRETZ Maria Agnes SCHWERIN married Albert Stephen GARSKE Bertha Augusta SCHWERIN married Ole NIELSEN Elizabeth Jane SCHWERIN married John FROST John SCHWERIN married Martha BLÜMKE { my mum's parents } According to Vicki, Stebbie/Stibbe is in West Prussia Cheers Bev Toowoomba -----Original Message----- From: sdpendell:First sdpendell:Last <sdpendell@earthlink.net> To: AUS-QLD-SE-Germans-L@rootsweb.com <AUS-QLD-SE-Germans-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Friday, 30 November 2001 12:07 Subject: Garske, Anklem >Just posting my research interests again. >I am seeking information on the family of Martin Garske married to Roselia Anklem in Stibbe, Prussia. They had nine children: Annie, Paulina, Roselia, Mary, August, Martin, Johan, Joseph and Albert. August immigrated to Australia about 1874. He married Veronica Quade (Queda). Martin, Joseph and Albert immigrated to Australia in 1882 on the ship, Cheyebassa. Martin married a lady named Pauline. Joseph married Agnes Ciesiolka. Albert married Maria (Mary) Agnes Schwerin. They all appear to have settled in the Toowoomba district ( Cooyar, Helidon, Glencoe) > >Any information on this family and associated families would be appreciated. Also any information on the location of Stibbe: I am not sure if the spelling is correct. Family tradition always said the family was from West Prussia. >Julie Pendell > > > > >============================== >Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp

Came across this today whilst looking for something else. Deaths in Toowoomba Hospital 1899 Tina Schwerin 15 yrs admitted October 29, 1899; died November 4, 1899 information from the Darling Downs Gazette Wed Dec 20 1899 The website was http://home.coffeeonline.com.au/~tfoen/toodeath.htm It's worth a look for deaths and obits Toowoomba- end of the century Hope this helps someone Janice N' _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Hi everyone, I have just found out that a number of my MULLER ancestors were in Kretchmar's Brass Band, a well known German band in the 1800's and into the early 1900's in Toowoomba. Does anyone have information on this band or know where I might find some. I am particularly interested in a photo of the band in the early 1900's. Chris Buckley

> "The Koehler family and Peranga community reunion will celebrate 100 years of settlement of Glenroy property, Peranga, Rosalie Shire, Queensland. The descendants of August Friedrick Wilhelm Koehler, Lorentina Lohrmann, Louisa Emma Moll, Otto Koehler, Emma Thiemann, friends and neighbours of past generations of their families are invited to the celebrations on Easter Saturday, 2002. Are there any other descendants of this family on the List? Regards Barbara Thamm