Hello Gaylene & fellow listers, I'm interested in Breadsells as they are connected to my family. Yes they were in that area some time back. I would be interested to see what is available. Cheers ArtArthur T Christensen _________________________________________________________________ News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now! http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx

Forwarded by List Administrator -----Original Message----- From: Phil [ Sent: Monday, 31 March 2008 8:21 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [SEQ-Germans] "Miles" from where? A simple Google search shows that Seventeen Mile Rocks was named after the rocks that were seventeen miles upstream from Brisbane Town. Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerry Raymond" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [SEQ-Germans] "Miles" from where? >> Gaylene mentions "17 Mile Rocks", I have ancestors who lived >> in the Brisbane area at "1 Mile Swamp" and another family at >> "4 Mile Swamp". > > I think the miles are measured from whatever other place was of interest > to > the person who named it. I don't think there is generally some > well-defined > point from which they are all measured. > > For what it's worth, the One Mile Swamp is Woolloongabba. The area that is > now the bus station and cricket ground was once rather swampy. > > Kerry

Hi all This is forward by the List Admin Lorrae Glenore Grove Qld 4342 http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=helmrich _____ From: Helen Jays [mailto: Sent: Monday, 31 March 2008 2:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Krenske Importance: High HI Charmaine We are trying to trace back my partners family tree and have hit a wall with his grandfathers father- Gustav Krenske , it would appear that he had a brother Otto Krenske however there seems to be nothing none of their parents Would help would be greatly appreciated Regards, Helen Jays

> Gaylene mentions "17 Mile Rocks", I have ancestors who lived > in the Brisbane area at "1 Mile Swamp" and another family at > "4 Mile Swamp". I think the miles are measured from whatever other place was of interest to the person who named it. I don't think there is generally some well-defined point from which they are all measured. For what it's worth, the One Mile Swamp is Woolloongabba. The area that is now the bus station and cricket ground was once rather swampy. Kerry

Rosemary I know that, in relation to some of the old, large stations/land holdings on the Darling Downs, these localities were based on the distance from the homestead ie. the 'centre of things' and often related to a shepherd's 'out-station'. For instance, the shepherd's hut was situated 2 mile from the homestead, '5 mile', or whatever ... and, of course, these huts were usually established close to a water source - even if that was only a swamp. With time, some of these station homesteads grew into little townships and the names eg. '4 Mile Swamp' remained. I'm assuming a similar principle operated with regards Brisbane - perhaps the measurement was taken from the hub of the township eg. the Post Office, Court House, or some other recognizable, public central point. RgsLisaGladstone, Q _________________________________________________________________ It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 at CarPoint.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_OCT07&_m=EXT

As far as I'm aware the '17 Miles' was measured from Brisbane as it was 17 miles upstream on the Brisbane River. Not too sure about swamps though. Gaylene ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 8:29 AM Subject: [SEQ-Germans] "Miles" from where? > Hi all, > > Apologies if this is really off the intended list topic, but > I've been curious about the "Mile" references in a number of > places in Brisbane. > > Gaylene mentions "17 Mile Rocks", I have ancestors who lived > in the Brisbane area at "1 Mile Swamp" and another family at > "4 Mile Swamp". > > Can anyone enlighten me on where they were measuring the > miles from? > > Rosemary. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "norm bourguignon" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [SEQ-Germans] Weil/Breadsell > Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 10:47:55 +1000 > >> Arthur do you have a connection to the Breadsell's who >> were at 17 Mile Rocks on the Brisbane River in the >> 1860's-70's. A Sarah Breadsell was a witness at the >> death of a child at that time. I know of someone who has >> done some research on their land ownership at this time. >> Gaylene >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Arthur Christensen" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 8:07 AM >> Subject: [SEQ-Germans] Weil >> >> >> > > A List for the research for the descendants of the Germans who migrated to > South East Queensland, Australia. > Archives - > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/AUS-QLD-SE-Germans.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > __________ NOD32 2985 (20080330) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > >

Hi all, Apologies if this is really off the intended list topic, but I've been curious about the "Mile" references in a number of places in Brisbane. Gaylene mentions "17 Mile Rocks", I have ancestors who lived in the Brisbane area at "1 Mile Swamp" and another family at "4 Mile Swamp". Can anyone enlighten me on where they were measuring the miles from? Rosemary. ----- Original Message ----- From: "norm bourguignon" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [SEQ-Germans] Weil/Breadsell Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 10:47:55 +1000 > Arthur do you have a connection to the Breadsell's who > were at 17 Mile Rocks on the Brisbane River in the > 1860's-70's. A Sarah Breadsell was a witness at the > death of a child at that time. I know of someone who has > done some research on their land ownership at this time. > Gaylene > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arthur Christensen" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 8:07 AM > Subject: [SEQ-Germans] Weil > > >

I found the following on a Tourist site for Bundaberg.. there seemed to be no reference to where the author obtained the information promoting the area.... ***. In the 1870s significant numbers of German and Danish migrants selected and cleared land in the area, cultivating the fertile river soils. *** Does anyone know whether this information is correct and if so, what would have influenced this migration to the area...and where can more information be found? Thanks Gay

Arthur do you have a connection to the Breadsell's who were at 17 Mile Rocks on the Brisbane River in the 1860's-70's. A Sarah Breadsell was a witness at the death of a child at that time. I know of someone who has done some research on their land ownership at this time. Gaylene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Christensen" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 8:07 AM Subject: [SEQ-Germans] Weil Hi Lisa & fellow listers, Daniel Mohr's mothers name was Eva Kathrina WEIL.b. 1803, Gambach, Germany. Maybe there are some connections Lisa. Regards Art Some names I'm researching: BACKHAUS, BALL,BREADSELL, BUCHER, CALLESEND,CAMPBELL, CHRISTENSEN, CHRISTIANSEN, CHRISTONS, COVACEVICH, CRAGG,CRAIG, CROUCHER,DAWSON,DONOVAN, DUTALLIS, FETT, FRISKE, FUTCHER,GIBSON, HANSEN, HIGGINS, JACQUES,KEANE, KORB, LERSKOV,LITTLE, McDONALD, McNAMARA, MAGNUSSEN, MARTENSEN, McMANUS, MOHR, MOLLER, MULLER, MOORE, NELSON,NISSEN, O'bYRNE, OLSEN, PALMER, PEDERSEN, PETERSEN, PETERS, ROBINSON, RICHARDOT, SCHICK, SCHEICK, SCHMIDT, SONKSEN, STANLEY, THOMSEN, THORSEN, TURNBULL, WEIDNER, WEIL,WEIR, WOLLGEHAGEN, WOODS, WRIGHT,YOUNG, Arthur T Christensen _________________________________________________________________ Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wlmailtagline A List for the research for the descendants of the Germans who migrated to South East Queensland, Australia. Archives - http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/AUS-QLD-SE-Germans.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message __________ NOD32 2982 (20080328) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com

Hi Lisa & fellow listers, Daniel Mohr's mothers name was Eva Kathrina WEIL.b. 1803, Gambach, Germany. Maybe there are some connections Lisa. Regards Art Some names I'm researching: BACKHAUS, BALL,BREADSELL, BUCHER, CALLESEND,CAMPBELL, CHRISTENSEN, CHRISTIANSEN, CHRISTONS, COVACEVICH, CRAGG,CRAIG, CROUCHER,DAWSON,DONOVAN, DUTALLIS, FETT, FRISKE, FUTCHER,GIBSON, HANSEN, HIGGINS, JACQUES,KEANE, KORB, LERSKOV,LITTLE, McDONALD, McNAMARA, MAGNUSSEN, MARTENSEN, McMANUS, MOHR, MOLLER, MULLER, MOORE, NELSON,NISSEN, O'bYRNE, OLSEN, PALMER, PEDERSEN, PETERSEN, PETERS, ROBINSON, RICHARDOT, SCHICK, SCHEICK, SCHMIDT, SONKSEN, STANLEY, THOMSEN, THORSEN, TURNBULL, WEIDNER, WEIL,WEIR, WOLLGEHAGEN, WOODS, WRIGHT,YOUNG, Arthur T Christensen _________________________________________________________________ Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger  http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wlmailtagline

> From: "Lisa Burton" <> wrote: > Friday, March 28, 2008 12:05 PMSubject: [SEQ-Germans] WEYL> information re. the surname, WEYL? > Christian and Elisabeth WEYL nee UHLMANN who are said to have emigrated to Australia in the 1850s or 1860s.> >unsuccessfully, for any trace of them via on-line Indexes to Births (Qld and NSW), including the variations 'WEIL' and 'WHEEL'. > --------------------------------------------- WEHLE & WEALE appear on Qld. Indexes. Di

Thank You Patricia I will Ring over weekend and thank you for your time Neil > Neil > I have been in touch with Kevin Cousemaker and he very happy to make > contact > re the Cousemaker family tree.

Thanks, Di and Estelle, for your suggestions .... Haven't had any luck so far .... Re. the early WEHL burials at Dalby / Clermont - can you please provide some details re. the ones for c. 1858, Di? I can't seem to get anything this early through the on-line Indexes. Rgs Lisa Gladstone, Q. _________________________________________________________________ Get MOTORAZR MAXX V6 now $249 on Next G™ Pre-Paid http://clk.atdmt.com/OAT/go/nnmsntel0690000034oat/direct/01/

Neil I have been in touch with Kevin Cousemaker and he very happy to make contact re the Cousemaker family tree. His telephone number is : 6585553 Regards Patricia Weber ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil Holton" <[email protected]> To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 11:41 AM Subject: [SEQ-Germans] Origin of Name Cousemacker > Hi All > Looking for some help, > Looking for country of origin if an one can help > Have three pocket of people Cousemacker > Bega -Eden > Around Belligen > Northern Rivers NSW > Only here say to conection > Simeon or Hypolitus are the given names of first Cousemacker to enter > Australia. > If any can shed some light on this name > Thank You > Neil > A List for the research for the descendants of the Germans who migrated to > South East Queensland, Australia. > Archives - > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/AUS-QLD-SE-Germans.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

From: "Lisa Burton" <[email protected]> wrote: Friday, March 28, 2008 12:05 PMSubject: [SEQ-Germans] WEYL> information re. the surname, WEYL? > Christian and Elisabeth WEYL nee UHLMANN who are said to have emigrated to Australia in the 1850s or 1860s.> >unsuccessfully, for any trace of them via on-line Indexes to Births (Qld and NSW), including the variations 'WEIL' and 'WHEEL'. > Hello Lisa You've checked WEIL & WHEEL. As Estelle says, there are WEHL on lots of different indexes in Qld.Try WHELL WEEL WUHL WEILL WEHRLE There are burials at Clermont & Dalby for WEHL: 1858< 1943 & 1987. Try Internment net for the different spelling. There's an Edward James WHELL Monumental Inscription at Miles, Qld. 1902 - 1974. Also a Monumental Inscription at Mungallalla Qld. 1901-1955 for Violet WHELL with CHAMBERS. Long shot: WEHRLE, Romdu 1880-1884 Elec. Roll. Qld. at Stewart Town, Palmer/Cook. Di

Hello Lisa, There are families by the name of WEHL in central and western Qld. I know the name has existed in the district at least from about the second world war, but probably earlier. If you use the NAA site and locate one who was a veteran (I think he may have been killed) you may be able to get parents, which will take you back prior to 1914. Estelle > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 12:05:27 +1000 > Subject: [SEQ-Germans] WEYL > > > Does anyone have information re. the surname, WEYL? > > In particular, I am looking for Christian and Elisabeth WEYL nee UHLMANN who are said to have emigrated to Australia in the 1850s or 1860s. > > I have looked, unsuccessfully, for any trace of them via on-line Indexes to Births (Qld and NSW), including the variations 'WEIL' and 'WHEEL'. > > Possibly, they ended up in Victoria or Tasmania. If someone has access to Indexes for these states, I would be very grateful for a 'look-up'. > > Rgs > Lisa > Gladstone, Q > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Fashion, beauty, health, relationship advice and horoscopes. > http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=873&referral=MarchHotmailTagline&URL=http://lifestyle.ninemsn.com.au/?ocid=T003HOT40A0710G > A List for the research for the descendants of the Germans who migrated to South East Queensland, Australia. > Archives - http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/AUS-QLD-SE-Germans.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Get MOTORAZR MAXX V6 now $249 on Next G™ Pre-Paid http://clk.atdmt.com/OAT/go/nnmsntel0690000034oat/direct/01/

Does anyone have information re. the surname, WEYL? In particular, I am looking for Christian and Elisabeth WEYL nee UHLMANN who are said to have emigrated to Australia in the 1850s or 1860s. I have looked, unsuccessfully, for any trace of them via on-line Indexes to Births (Qld and NSW), including the variations 'WEIL' and 'WHEEL'. Possibly, they ended up in Victoria or Tasmania. If someone has access to Indexes for these states, I would be very grateful for a 'look-up'. Rgs Lisa Gladstone, Q _________________________________________________________________ Fashion, beauty, health, relationship advice and horoscopes. http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=873&referral=MarchHotmailTagline&URL=http://lifestyle.ninemsn.com.au/?ocid=T003HOT40A0710G

Came upon the following whilst ‘browsing’ …. perhaps it will be of interest to someone. Rgs Lisa Gladstone, Q “Queensland Police Gazette 1879 – 1880”: Missing Friends Information is requested of Waldemar ERLANDSEN and George HERMANN, Danes, who arrived in Brisbane per ship “Herschel” in September, 1878. After landing they stopped for a few days at Schelpp’s Boarding House, Albert Street, where they said they were determined to go North. _________________________________________________________________ Get MOTORAZR MAXX V6 now $249 on Next G™ Pre-Paid http://clk.atdmt.com/OAT/go/nnmsntel0690000034oat/direct/01/

Hi My understanding is as follows: Before the 1870s it was common to sail direct from Hamburg or Bremen. It is interesting to note that the early departure lists for Bremen have been lost. However, after the 1870s, until the early days of federation,while some ships continued to sale direct it was common to go via an English port like London or Plymouth. My great-grandfather KAPERNICKS brother Wilhelm Friedrich KAPERNICK went via London, leaving in 1880 from Plymouth on the Duke of Sutherland with mostly Irish immigrants. My great grandfather Hermann KAPERNICK sailed via London with his brother Carl in 1888. I admit I don't know how they travelled to England. I believe my great grandfather Hermann actually sailed from Stettin and not Hamburg or Bremen. Stettin is now Szcecin in Poland. In the previous decade, however, my gr-great grandparents BEUTEL came direct from Hamburg. During the period of the Civil War certainly some were not allowed to continue journeys from London to USA. It is perhaps here that the practice was more always to not go direct, although my gr-gr grandparents KOCH did sail direct from Hamburg to New York in the 1870s. Later their son came to South Australia. The only continent I have not found large groups of relatives in my tree is Asia and there still are a couple! Also, I would imagine how many candidates at once a particular immigrant agent had found in an area and whether there were enough for a direct shipload. I don't know if me entering the discussion helps clear things up but there is my two bobs worth as my grandfather would say. Regards Chris --- albert grulke <[email protected]> wrote: > When I made this statement originally I said that I > am not sure of the facts > relating to it but it was one explanation. > This I do know for sure: > According to family legend Peter Mutze and Anna > Bickhardt eloped, more > likely run away from their home in Düsseldorf. > Legend says that both > families objected to the relationship because she > was the daughter of a > leading industrialist and he was the son of a mill > worker. > They found their way to Hamburg and somehow obtained > a fare on a migrant > ship bound for the USA. > The ship sailed from Hamburg to an English port but > I have yet to find out > which English port. > Because of a war in the USA the English government > would not allow migrant > ships a clearance to sail for there. > The captain did however get a clearance to sail for > Moreton Bay and all of > his passengers were diverted as migrants to Moreton > Bay. > I confess that I have yet to find out which ship > they sailed on but the date > was 1864. > They were married by the Lutheran pastor at Nundah > three days after arrival > here. > How factual this story is I cannot say because it > has been passed down from > generation to generation and I have seen no positive > evidence. > I also know for fact that the ships bringing the > German migrants to the > Hunter valley in 1849 and thereabouts sailed from > Hamburg to London before > getting a clearance to sail for Sydney. This may > have been a part of their > contract. Perhaps clearance is the wrong word. > I might say that I have here a document produced by > a Kummerow descendant > who says that his ancestor Fred Kummerow was also > destined for the USA but > change when the ship arrived in England. As I have > here a copy of the actual > contract between him and Heussler and the grazier I > know for fact that his > intent was always to come to Queensland but what I > do not know is whether or > not the ship stoped at an English port. > Albert Grulke > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Lisa Burton > Sent: Saturday, 15 March 2008 12:52 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [SEQ-Germans] Sea route from > Scandinavia/Germany > > > > I feel I, too, would question the statement that > "many of the ships bringing > German migrants toAustralia left Hamburg or Bremen > and sailed to English > ports." > > This may, in deed, have been the situation in some > instances and may be more > relevant to 'German' immigration in the latter part > of the 19th century; a > period, I admit, I don't know a lot about. However, > I don't believe it was > prevalent practice in the mid 1800s. > > As Alan has stated, a great majority of the German > immigrants to Australia > were bought out under various Government-instigated > schemes. A great deal of > time, organization and money was involved in such > ventures and the major > parties involved certainly didn't make it a practice > to change their minds > 'willy-nilly' re. ports, destinations, etc. In fact, > in the isolated cases > where an immigration agent, or similar, breached > their obligations, a great > fuss resulted; measures taken to recoup monies > expended, reputations > besmirched in the contemporary newspapers, Contracts > terminated, etc. > > In addition, as these arrangements were made between > sovereign 'German' > states and the Colonies of New South Wales and/or > Queensland, for example, a > ship engaged by one of the immigration agents > departing from Hamburg or > Bremen surely wouldn't have required 'clearance' > from an English port to > sail to, say, Sydney or Moreton Bay, would it? > > I know that, in the case of the "Solon" - my pet > obsession! - which departed > Bremen for Moreton Bay in December 1858, she > definitely did not call at an > English port; although Lloyd's List does record that > she was sighted off > Ramsgate, England, on 30th December. > > Rgs > Lisa > Gladstone, Q > > > > From: [email protected]> To: > [email protected]> > Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 21:28:32 +1000> Subject: Re: > [SEQ-Germans] Sea route > from Scandinavia/Germany> > My reading of various > books and documents > indicates that in 1879 the> Queensland Government > directed its Agent-General > in London to terminate all> assisted immigration > from Germany and the > Scandanavian countries and also to> reduce the > intake from the British > Isles. In 1880 limited immigration was> > re-introduced but the only Germans > brought out on a free passage were those> nominated > by relatives or friends > in the Colony of Queensland. They were> expected to > pay their own way to > Plymouth for embarkation on British ships> and sail > with British and other > migrants. In 1884 London replaced Plymouth> as the > main port of embarkation. > It was seen as an advantage to sail on a> British > ship as that enabled the > German passengers to learn some English and> to gain > some understanding of > the Anglo-Saxon way of life! > .> I have not found anything to suggest that German > migrants changed their> > minds about their destination along the way - > although this could have been> > the case with some - or that ships destinations were > changed along the way.> > It appears that most German migration was arranged > by Agents who were paid> > fees by the Country of destination e.g. Queensland > and any change of> > destination would have been resisted strongly or > perhaps made impossible by> > the Agents who, I believe, issued some at least of > the documentation for> > travel.> > Alan NITZ.> > _________________________________________________________________ > It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 at > CarPoint.com.au > http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2 > Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fa > i%5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_OCT07&_m=EXT > A List for the research for the descendants of the > Germans who migrated to > South East Queensland, Australia. > Archives - > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/AUS-QLD-SE-Germans.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to > [email protected] with the > word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > A List for the research for the descendants of the > Germans who migrated to South East Queensland, > Australia. > Archives - > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/AUS-QLD-SE-Germans.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to [email protected] with the > word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address. www.yahoo7.com.au/y7mail

When I made this statement originally I said that I am not sure of the facts relating to it but it was one explanation. This I do know for sure: According to family legend Peter Mutze and Anna Bickhardt eloped, more likely run away from their home in Düsseldorf. Legend says that both families objected to the relationship because she was the daughter of a leading industrialist and he was the son of a mill worker. They found their way to Hamburg and somehow obtained a fare on a migrant ship bound for the USA. The ship sailed from Hamburg to an English port but I have yet to find out which English port. Because of a war in the USA the English government would not allow migrant ships a clearance to sail for there. The captain did however get a clearance to sail for Moreton Bay and all of his passengers were diverted as migrants to Moreton Bay. I confess that I have yet to find out which ship they sailed on but the date was 1864. They were married by the Lutheran pastor at Nundah three days after arrival here. How factual this story is I cannot say because it has been passed down from generation to generation and I have seen no positive evidence. I also know for fact that the ships bringing the German migrants to the Hunter valley in 1849 and thereabouts sailed from Hamburg to London before getting a clearance to sail for Sydney. This may have been a part of their contract. Perhaps clearance is the wrong word. I might say that I have here a document produced by a Kummerow descendant who says that his ancestor Fred Kummerow was also destined for the USA but change when the ship arrived in England. As I have here a copy of the actual contract between him and Heussler and the grazier I know for fact that his intent was always to come to Queensland but what I do not know is whether or not the ship stoped at an English port. Albert Grulke -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lisa Burton Sent: Saturday, 15 March 2008 12:52 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [SEQ-Germans] Sea route from Scandinavia/Germany I feel I, too, would question the statement that "many of the ships bringing German migrants toAustralia left Hamburg or Bremen and sailed to English ports." This may, in deed, have been the situation in some instances and may be more relevant to 'German' immigration in the latter part of the 19th century; a period, I admit, I don't know a lot about. However, I don't believe it was prevalent practice in the mid 1800s. As Alan has stated, a great majority of the German immigrants to Australia were bought out under various Government-instigated schemes. A great deal of time, organization and money was involved in such ventures and the major parties involved certainly didn't make it a practice to change their minds 'willy-nilly' re. ports, destinations, etc. In fact, in the isolated cases where an immigration agent, or similar, breached their obligations, a great fuss resulted; measures taken to recoup monies expended, reputations besmirched in the contemporary newspapers, Contracts terminated, etc. In addition, as these arrangements were made between sovereign 'German' states and the Colonies of New South Wales and/or Queensland, for example, a ship engaged by one of the immigration agents departing from Hamburg or Bremen surely wouldn't have required 'clearance' from an English port to sail to, say, Sydney or Moreton Bay, would it? I know that, in the case of the "Solon" - my pet obsession! - which departed Bremen for Moreton Bay in December 1858, she definitely did not call at an English port; although Lloyd's List does record that she was sighted off Ramsgate, England, on 30th December. Rgs Lisa Gladstone, Q > From: [email protected]> To: [email protected]> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 21:28:32 +1000> Subject: Re: [SEQ-Germans] Sea route from Scandinavia/Germany> > My reading of various books and documents indicates that in 1879 the> Queensland Government directed its Agent-General in London to terminate all> assisted immigration from Germany and the Scandanavian countries and also to> reduce the intake from the British Isles. In 1880 limited immigration was> re-introduced but the only Germans brought out on a free passage were those> nominated by relatives or friends in the Colony of Queensland. They were> expected to pay their own way to Plymouth for embarkation on British ships> and sail with British and other migrants. In 1884 London replaced Plymouth> as the main port of embarkation. It was seen as an advantage to sail on a> British ship as that enabled the German passengers to learn some English and> to gain some understanding of the Anglo-Saxon way of life! .> I have not found anything to suggest that German migrants changed their> minds about their destination along the way - although this could have been> the case with some - or that ships destinations were changed along the way.> It appears that most German migration was arranged by Agents who were paid> fees by the Country of destination e.g. Queensland and any change of> destination would have been resisted strongly or perhaps made impossible by> the Agents who, I believe, issued some at least of the documentation for> travel.> > Alan NITZ.> _________________________________________________________________ It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 at CarPoint.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2 Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fa i%5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_OCT07&_m=EXT A List for the research for the descendants of the Germans who migrated to South East Queensland, Australia. Archives - http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/AUS-QLD-SE-Germans.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message