To those researching these names - I realise that this is a fairly common name, and not all families are connected, but I offer a few family details in case anyone can see a connection anywhere. My great grandmother Augusta Drews/Drewes (born 12/05/1851 Brotzen, West Prussia) came to Queensland on the 'Friedeburg' in 1873 and married Carl Christian Friedrich Draheim shortly thereafter. She was according to my mother an orphan, but it seems likely that she was a sister of Wilhelmine Ernestine Adamski (b. 24/05/1844 Altprochnow, Deutschkrone), who arrived on the same boat from Petznik, West Prussia, and who married Wilhelm August Stockelbusch after the death of Casimir Adamski; and of Heinrich Robert Erdman Drews (b. 21/08/1849 Deutsch Fulbach, Deutschkrone). Lois Cameron.

Hello Listers, You may find the following information relevant to your discussion - http://www.archives.qld.gov.au/downloads/SearchProcedures/sp7_land_orders.pdf Estelle > From: agrulke7@bigpond.com > To: aus-qld-se-germans@rootsweb.com > Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 10:59:43 +1000 > Subject: Re: [SEQ-Germans] Emigration -AUS-QLD-SE-GERMANS Digest, Vol 5, Issue 109 > > Interesting. > I was unaware of girls getting land orders and of children also getting > them. > I wonder where the order was for. I thought for some reason that the Drewes > went to St Helens Station on work contract for five years before returning > to Middle Ridge. > John seems to suggest that maybe they had a land order on arrival. > Albert Grulke > > -----Original Message----- > From: aus-qld-se-germans-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:aus-qld-se-germans-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Heinemann > Sent: Tuesday, 22 June 2010 3:39 PM > To: aus-qld-se-germans@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [SEQ-Germans] Emigration -AUS-QLD-SE-GERMANS Digest, Vol 5, > Issue 109 > > In his posting (Message 4) Albert mentions migrants being granted blocks of > land. I have noticed that the Qld State Archives have recently put the > following indeces on line. > > Index to Register of Lands Sold 1849-1861 NEW! > Index to Register of Lands 1861-1868 NEW! > Index to Land Orders 1861-1874 NEW! > > If you find someone of interest copies of register pages can be ordered. > However, the preamble that has been included by the archives indicates that > grants were at times made to the immigration agents or migrant's employers > (presumably for subsequent transfer to the migrant once they had worked the > term of their contract). Hence there are many entries for Heussler, Heussler > and Co and Heussler and Francksen in the Index to Land Orders 1861-1874 for > example. I have managed to find some entries for families of interest to me > - eg the Drews family as shown below. Albert indicates that every son aged > 16 or over could get a land grant. In the case of the Drews, daughter > Ernestine and sons Ferdinand (aged 8) and Franz (aged 6) were included. > > SURNAME/Company Name GIVEN NAMES Page Land Order No. Year Item > ID Prev Sys M/film No. > DREWS August 1120 1863 > 18764 IMM/247 Z1570 > DREWS Carl 1121 > 1863 18764 IMM/247 Z1570 > DREWS Ernestine 1121 > 1863 18764 IMM/247 Z1570 > DREWS Ferdinand 1122 > 1863 18764 IMM/247 Z1570 > DREWS Franz 1122 > 1863 18764 IMM/247 Z1570 > DREWS Frederich 1119 > 1863 18764 IMM/247 Z1570 > DREWS Wilhelm 1120 1863 > 18764 IMM/247 Z1570 > DREWS Wilhelmine 1119 > 1863 18764 IMM/247 Z1570 > > In the case of the Vohland family all four children were under 10 but only > the youngest who was 3 is not listed in the index. The registers do not seem > to include ages of individuals, so anyone capable of signing their name on > appropriate documents may have been able to obtain a block of land. Any > payment that was needed was obviously made by the father. > > The following extract from an article about the founding of the Bethania > settlement in Qld (http://home.wanadoo.nl/wouter.busnach/bethan.htm > )describes the reasons for migration from Brandenburg in the 1860's > > "The community at Bethania was founded by twenty-two families namely Tesch, > Berndt (2x), Schneider, Ebert, Holzheimer, Lindow, Kuter, Rehfeldt, Sichter, > Lindow, Kuter, Rehfeldt, Sichter, Hein, Fels, Schafer, Lotz, Bobbermein, > Kasper, Losbegeiger, Fien, Kroning, Kleinschmidt, Goll and Sommer. > > These folk were motivated principally by economic reasons. During the second > quarter of the nineteenth century, Brandenburg in particular was full of > social, political and religious tensions brought about by a population > explosion, the beginnings of industrialization, the emergence of new > political ideas and the union of the Protestant churches into the State > Church of Prussia. > > The effects of over-population were disastrous. Second sons of farmers found > only poorly paid occupations or no work at all, and so the social descent > began. Emigration was the only alternative to shifting to the larger towns. > > Christian Berndt (later Pastor Berndt) was one of those who had contemplated > emigration, although the destination of his choice had been America. A > number of families from his village had already to that country. He was wont > to say, "Our father had a large farm. We can only afford to buy a small farm > and our children be forced to become simple labourers. There is much land to > be had in America and there our children can become property owners. > > "However at about that time the Queensland Government, through its agents, > made it known in Germany that if folks emigrated to the colony, they would > be given a free passage and then each family would receive a piece of land. > The prospect of having their own soil under the plough was something that > energetic men and their wives could not resist. > > Of the original twenty-two founding families, seventeen were from the > Angermunde district of the Uckermark in Brandenburg and belonged to the > Preussische Freikirche (Prussian Freechurch). They were commonly called "Old > Lutherans" because of their insistence on the old form of Lutheran worship. > > The merger by Royal Proclamation of the Calvinist and Lutheran churches into > the State Church of Prussia had caused a great deal of anguish among > conservative village and country dwellers. The "Old Lutherans" rejected this > Union outright and, as a result, were subjected to discrimination and > sometimes persecution for what was regarded as civil disobedience." > > John Heinemann > > Archives - http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/AUS-QLD-SE-Germans.html > > Quoting the entire text of a previous message in a reply is poor netiquette. > Please don't do it. > > A List for the research for the descendants of the Germans who migrated to > South East Queensland, Australia. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-QLD-SE-GERMANS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > Archives - http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/AUS-QLD-SE-Germans.html > > Quoting the entire text of a previous message in a reply is poor netiquette. Please don't do it. > > A List for the research for the descendants of the Germans who migrated to South East Queensland, Australia. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-QLD-SE-GERMANS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ If It Exists, You'll Find it on SEEK. Australia's #1 job site http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157639755/direct/01/

Albert In both my BRAUN and BRUCE families who arrived 1863 and 1864, children received orders but I can't work out a pattern. In one family those under 10 didn't in the second only those under 5 didn't but I assume there was some sort of formula. Who owned St Helens when the Drews were there? My mother spent a great part of her childhood there [though somewhat later :) ] Her father was manager for A. T . Creswick c 1920s Judy > Interesting. > I was unaware of girls getting land orders and of children also getting > them. > I wonder where the order was for. I thought for some reason that the > Drewes > went to St Helens Station on work contract for five years before returning > to Middle Ridge. > John seems to suggest that maybe they had a land order on arrival. > Albert Grulke >

Land Orders The information below from the Qld State Archives web site explains more about land orders. It is probable that not all Land Orders issued were converted to land ownership. Also given that one of the Registers is for Non Transferable Land Orders, it is probable that others were transferable and thus possibly there may have been a market for them. One of the benefits of a large family would have been the entitlement to more Land Orders. There is similar explanatory material for each of the online indeces. I suggest having a look at the website as it is too much to copy to here. Albert is thus probably correct the Drewes went to St Helens Station on work contract for five years before returning to Middle Ridge. A search of the Archives produces results for Ferdinand and Franz Drews taking up two blocks each in Toowoomba in April 1868 - just 5 years after they arrived. They appear to be the younger two sons of the family who would have been 13 and 11. This seems a little odd - but it could be the German habit of having several Christian names and not being known by the first is causing some confusion ( says someone who is not known by his first name). John Heinemann "A land order was legal tender for the selection and purchase of land at auction, made available under the various Queensland Land Acts in the nineteenth century. It was not an order for a particular piece of land. Therefore it is not possible to find out from land order records the locality of real property description of a piece of land selected or purchased by a particular person. The scheme was designed as a means of inducing immigrants to settle in Queensland. The conditions under which they were issued changed substantially over time with changes to the relevant legislation. In general, they were available to persons paying their own passage in full or to persons (such as shipping agents) paying the passage in full for someone else. At certain times and under certain conditions, they were also granted to the following categories of persons: nominated or remittance passengers, persons nominating immigrants, indentured passengers, employers contracting indentured passengers, and assisted passengers. The value of land orders varied. (see below for the various registers used to create the online index) In some cases, a first land order was convertible immediately after arrival and a second land order available after a period of residence in Queensland. Records of land orders issued usually give: • Name of immigrant • Name of person to whom the land order was issued and, in some cases, • Details of the ship and date of arrival. Details of the land purchased or selected using the land order are not given. A land order acts as evidence that a particular immigrant was resident in Queensland on a particular date." "This Index was created from several series of records relating to Land Orders that were created by the Immigration Department. Series ID 13137 (IMM/249), Register of Land Orders issued on payment of undertakings, 1870-1874 Series ID 13139 (IMM/246), Register of the Issue of 18 Pounds' (£18) Land Orders, 1861-1863 Series ID 13144 (IMM/247), Register of Land Order Claims, 1862-1864 Series ID 13145 (IMM/248), Register of 18 Pounds' (£ 18) and 30 pounds' (£30) Land Orders, 1864-1873 Series ID 13146 (IMM/249), Register of 30-Acre Land Orders, 1864 Series ID 13148 (IMM/249), Register of Land Orders Issued to employers, 1872-1875 Series ID 18514 (IMM/249), Register of 30 pounds' (£30) Land Orders, 1864-1866 Series ID 18515 (IMM/249), Register of 40-Acre Non-Transferable Land Orders, 1870-1876" *********

Interesting. I was unaware of girls getting land orders and of children also getting them. I wonder where the order was for. I thought for some reason that the Drewes went to St Helens Station on work contract for five years before returning to Middle Ridge. John seems to suggest that maybe they had a land order on arrival. Albert Grulke -----Original Message----- From: aus-qld-se-germans-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-qld-se-germans-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Heinemann Sent: Tuesday, 22 June 2010 3:39 PM To: aus-qld-se-germans@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SEQ-Germans] Emigration -AUS-QLD-SE-GERMANS Digest, Vol 5, Issue 109 In his posting (Message 4) Albert mentions migrants being granted blocks of land. I have noticed that the Qld State Archives have recently put the following indeces on line. Index to Register of Lands Sold 1849-1861 NEW! Index to Register of Lands 1861-1868 NEW! Index to Land Orders 1861-1874 NEW! If you find someone of interest copies of register pages can be ordered. However, the preamble that has been included by the archives indicates that grants were at times made to the immigration agents or migrant's employers (presumably for subsequent transfer to the migrant once they had worked the term of their contract). Hence there are many entries for Heussler, Heussler and Co and Heussler and Francksen in the Index to Land Orders 1861-1874 for example. I have managed to find some entries for families of interest to me - eg the Drews family as shown below. Albert indicates that every son aged 16 or over could get a land grant. In the case of the Drews, daughter Ernestine and sons Ferdinand (aged 8) and Franz (aged 6) were included. SURNAME/Company Name GIVEN NAMES Page Land Order No. Year Item ID Prev Sys M/film No. DREWS August 1120 1863 18764 IMM/247 Z1570 DREWS Carl 1121 1863 18764 IMM/247 Z1570 DREWS Ernestine 1121 1863 18764 IMM/247 Z1570 DREWS Ferdinand 1122 1863 18764 IMM/247 Z1570 DREWS Franz 1122 1863 18764 IMM/247 Z1570 DREWS Frederich 1119 1863 18764 IMM/247 Z1570 DREWS Wilhelm 1120 1863 18764 IMM/247 Z1570 DREWS Wilhelmine 1119 1863 18764 IMM/247 Z1570 In the case of the Vohland family all four children were under 10 but only the youngest who was 3 is not listed in the index. The registers do not seem to include ages of individuals, so anyone capable of signing their name on appropriate documents may have been able to obtain a block of land. Any payment that was needed was obviously made by the father. The following extract from an article about the founding of the Bethania settlement in Qld (http://home.wanadoo.nl/wouter.busnach/bethan.htm )describes the reasons for migration from Brandenburg in the 1860's "The community at Bethania was founded by twenty-two families namely Tesch, Berndt (2x), Schneider, Ebert, Holzheimer, Lindow, Kuter, Rehfeldt, Sichter, Lindow, Kuter, Rehfeldt, Sichter, Hein, Fels, Schafer, Lotz, Bobbermein, Kasper, Losbegeiger, Fien, Kroning, Kleinschmidt, Goll and Sommer. These folk were motivated principally by economic reasons. During the second quarter of the nineteenth century, Brandenburg in particular was full of social, political and religious tensions brought about by a population explosion, the beginnings of industrialization, the emergence of new political ideas and the union of the Protestant churches into the State Church of Prussia. The effects of over-population were disastrous. Second sons of farmers found only poorly paid occupations or no work at all, and so the social descent began. Emigration was the only alternative to shifting to the larger towns. Christian Berndt (later Pastor Berndt) was one of those who had contemplated emigration, although the destination of his choice had been America. A number of families from his village had already to that country. He was wont to say, "Our father had a large farm. We can only afford to buy a small farm and our children be forced to become simple labourers. There is much land to be had in America and there our children can become property owners. "However at about that time the Queensland Government, through its agents, made it known in Germany that if folks emigrated to the colony, they would be given a free passage and then each family would receive a piece of land. The prospect of having their own soil under the plough was something that energetic men and their wives could not resist. Of the original twenty-two founding families, seventeen were from the Angermunde district of the Uckermark in Brandenburg and belonged to the Preussische Freikirche (Prussian Freechurch). They were commonly called "Old Lutherans" because of their insistence on the old form of Lutheran worship. The merger by Royal Proclamation of the Calvinist and Lutheran churches into the State Church of Prussia had caused a great deal of anguish among conservative village and country dwellers. The "Old Lutherans" rejected this Union outright and, as a result, were subjected to discrimination and sometimes persecution for what was regarded as civil disobedience." John Heinemann Archives - http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/AUS-QLD-SE-Germans.html Quoting the entire text of a previous message in a reply is poor netiquette. Please don't do it. A List for the research for the descendants of the Germans who migrated to South East Queensland, Australia. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-QLD-SE-GERMANS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have just updated the downloads for the TDDFHS indices of the Darling Downs Gazette on The Society News page [our blog] http://tddfhs.blogspot.com/ These cover births, deaths, marriages, obituaries and anniversaries .They now cover the period from 1861-1910. Many of the names come from outside the region The Daring Downs Gazette was an early Toowoomba, Queensland area newspaper . The links are on the left hand side of the webpage.You are free to download the .pdf files. The Society can provide you with further details of each entry. Judy The Blog Minder :) PS Please feel free to forward this to other Family History Mailing Lists

In his posting (Message 4) Albert mentions migrants being granted blocks of land. I have noticed that the Qld State Archives have recently put the following indeces on line. Index to Register of Lands Sold 1849-1861 NEW! Index to Register of Lands 1861-1868 NEW! Index to Land Orders 1861-1874 NEW! If you find someone of interest copies of register pages can be ordered. However, the preamble that has been included by the archives indicates that grants were at times made to the immigration agents or migrant's employers (presumably for subsequent transfer to the migrant once they had worked the term of their contract). Hence there are many entries for Heussler, Heussler and Co and Heussler and Francksen in the Index to Land Orders 1861-1874 for example. I have managed to find some entries for families of interest to me - eg the Drews family as shown below. Albert indicates that every son aged 16 or over could get a land grant. In the case of the Drews, daughter Ernestine and sons Ferdinand (aged 8) and Franz (aged 6) were included. SURNAME/Company Name GIVEN NAMES Page Land Order No. Year Item ID Prev Sys M/film No. DREWS August 1120 1863 18764 IMM/247 Z1570 DREWS Carl 1121 1863 18764 IMM/247 Z1570 DREWS Ernestine 1121 1863 18764 IMM/247 Z1570 DREWS Ferdinand 1122 1863 18764 IMM/247 Z1570 DREWS Franz 1122 1863 18764 IMM/247 Z1570 DREWS Frederich 1119 1863 18764 IMM/247 Z1570 DREWS Wilhelm 1120 1863 18764 IMM/247 Z1570 DREWS Wilhelmine 1119 1863 18764 IMM/247 Z1570 In the case of the Vohland family all four children were under 10 but only the youngest who was 3 is not listed in the index. The registers do not seem to include ages of individuals, so anyone capable of signing their name on appropriate documents may have been able to obtain a block of land. Any payment that was needed was obviously made by the father. The following extract from an article about the founding of the Bethania settlement in Qld (http://home.wanadoo.nl/wouter.busnach/bethan.htm )describes the reasons for migration from Brandenburg in the 1860's "The community at Bethania was founded by twenty-two families namely Tesch, Berndt (2x), Schneider, Ebert, Holzheimer, Lindow, Kuter, Rehfeldt, Sichter, Lindow, Kuter, Rehfeldt, Sichter, Hein, Fels, Schafer, Lotz, Bobbermein, Kasper, Losbegeiger, Fien, Kroning, Kleinschmidt, Goll and Sommer. These folk were motivated principally by economic reasons. During the second quarter of the nineteenth century, Brandenburg in particular was full of social, political and religious tensions brought about by a population explosion, the beginnings of industrialization, the emergence of new political ideas and the union of the Protestant churches into the State Church of Prussia. The effects of over-population were disastrous. Second sons of farmers found only poorly paid occupations or no work at all, and so the social descent began. Emigration was the only alternative to shifting to the larger towns. Christian Berndt (later Pastor Berndt) was one of those who had contemplated emigration, although the destination of his choice had been America. A number of families from his village had already to that country. He was wont to say, "Our father had a large farm. We can only afford to buy a small farm and our children be forced to become simple labourers. There is much land to be had in America and there our children can become property owners. "However at about that time the Queensland Government, through its agents, made it known in Germany that if folks emigrated to the colony, they would be given a free passage and then each family would receive a piece of land. The prospect of having their own soil under the plough was something that energetic men and their wives could not resist. Of the original twenty-two founding families, seventeen were from the Angermunde district of the Uckermark in Brandenburg and belonged to the Preussische Freikirche (Prussian Freechurch). They were commonly called "Old Lutherans" because of their insistence on the old form of Lutheran worship. The merger by Royal Proclamation of the Calvinist and Lutheran churches into the State Church of Prussia had caused a great deal of anguish among conservative village and country dwellers. The "Old Lutherans" rejected this Union outright and, as a result, were subjected to discrimination and sometimes persecution for what was regarded as civil disobedience." John Heinemann

Hi Group, There has been a great deal of debate about the reasons for emigration from Germany. It is a very complex matter and there really isn't one reason that can be given, but different reasons for different time frames and places. We will mention a few examples from different areas that we have found during our research. But this is by no means the whole story. For some the reasons were Religious, others Military, but for the majority we believe it was for economic reasons which boils down that they wanted a better life for them and their family. Letters from Johann Cesar Godeffroy & Son to C Heussler 24-03-1866 to J. C. Heussler Brisbane. “During the excessive heat of the past year of 1865 together with Cholera especially Typhus and Scarlet fevers were spread over the whole continent and not only here in Europe much greater mortality was registered, but, the germ of these epidemics were also carried on board of all emigrant vessels, as well on those destined for America as on those destined for Australia and broke out, during the voyage more or less seriously; the enclosed files of Newspapers contain the report of the Hamburg Hospital, which states that, cases of Typhus fever were more numerous in 1865 than in the year of 1857, the worst known up to now.” If you had Ancestors from the most northern state of Germany, Schleswig Holstein, there is an excellent website that you can look at. The author is trying to track everyone who emigrated from those states and give a reason if possible. We have noticed on this site a high incidence of people emigrating for Military reasons. It has been recorded against some people who emigrated that they were "accused of leaving the country without a permit for emigration or of not showing for military service". There were many conflicts going on and it was complusory for men within a certain age group to do military service. http://www.rootdigger.de/Emi.htm >From the book "Nineteenth Century emigration of "Old Lutherans" from Eastern Germany (Mainly Pomerania and Lower Silesia) to Australia, Canada and the United States by Clifford Neal Smith 1980. In his book he gives the background of reasons for the "old Lutherans" in 1837 from Lower Silesia to South Australia and other areas. In the book it lists some examples given for their emigration: "The wife of Luschuetz, from Riechwalde, Kreis Rothenburg Silesia, remained Germany when her husband emigratedc in 1854, and was happy to be rid of him, as he had neglected his family. Frau Grobengiesser born Ribcke, from Bruessow aged 67 was granted an exit permit with her two daughters, aged 26 and 24, with the agreement of the husband and father, on 7 Jun 1843 to go to America. The husband Johann Justus Grobengiesser aged 56 was to remain in Germany only until he had straightened out the affairs of his son, liable to military sercice and a third daughter. The son's military obligation was dissolved by an appeal to the Minister of War. On 29 Jun 1843 he and the son were granted special exit permits so that they probably accompanied the wife and two daughters (nothing is said about the third daughters case. (Government at Potsdam). Another case " The journeyman roofer Gottlob Hildebrandt in Potsdam from Bohnau near Weissenfels wished to emigrate with Pastor Kindermann and received his release from Prussian citizenship. He had been married for seven years: his wife, Dorothea Hildebrandt born Speck did not belong to his faith nor did she wish to emigrate. She would not stand in the way of his departure and would support herself. Since Hildebrandt had missed his opportunity for a free passage overseas, he reported that he would give up his emigration plan temporarily. His permit was placed in the files." There are many many more examples. One example of some explanations is from "Emigrants from Hessen Kassel" and while some of the examples relate to emigration to America, the same reasons would apply to Australia, Africa, South America and England and can be read on: http://www.itter.org/history/emigration.shtml An example from Baden in 1855: These were taken from Memoirs written by the son of an Emigrant. "It was a very hard struggle for poor people to get on there for wages were very low and heavy taxes to pay. It was very difficult to save a little money or buy a little land. When I was 12 years old my Father resolved to emigrate and as there was just an opening for Australia and a great many families in our neighbourhood who had friends there were going, so father made up his mind to go also with his family to better ourselves......." Book: Letters from Emigrants to Queensland 1863-1885 written by the QFHS with permission of the Co-ordinator General Premiers Dept of Qld. (issued from the Qld Govt Emigration Office London 1863) A letter written in Brisbane 18th January 1863 Even though it is an English person writing the sentiments would be the same: the name wasn’t recorded. “We bore up the voyage very well, and hope its all for the best. It is a great undertaking, but I can do better with them here than in England. But this is no place for a lazy man: but if he will work he will get paid. Perhaps you will not believe that I am getting at present 10s per day…… I can buy land for £1 per acre, in any quantity, but I think I can do best for my trade: and when I get a house and shop and garden, I shall work to myself not journeyman…….. I wish many that I know that are home, in want, were out here to enjoy plenty - they would do well here.” Another example is an extract from a publication called “Margin” No 20 1988 Published by the department of English and printed by the Dept of Geography, Monash University Clayton Vic Aust “The middle of the 19th century was a period of great social and political unrest and poverty in Europe. Therefore a significant number of Germans left their country and Australia must have been seen as a good place to go in search of a more prosperous future especially as the news of the recent Gold discoveries there reached Europe very quickly….. There is evidence, too, that Australia wanted European families to immigrate….The Stuttgart archives hold a letter signed by John Dunmore Lang, dated 21 February 1837 and addressed to Wuerttemberg authorities in Stuttgart informing ‘His Excellency’ that the English Government had asked their Australian colonies to support emigration from Europe to Australian and that therefore his brother Andrew Lang, property owner of NSW wanted 100 unblemished and hardworking families from Great Britain or the Continent to settle on his property.” >From the same publication, a letter from Christian Carl Krust to Johann Specht written in NSW 29-8-1855, it also contains an excellent on the route the ship took: “As so many asked me where Australia was, now I am able to tell them; from Hamburg or Bremen one goes west through the English Channel, then SW with France, Spain and Portugal on one’s left, then past the Island of Madeira where they grow such beautiful wine, to the Canaries and further south to sierra Leone where it starts to be very hot. Crossing the Equator the journey goes SE beyond the Cape of Goode Hope, the most southern tip of Africa, then straight east, where the sun rises, to Van Diemens Land. Halfway between there and Africa we passed the island of St Paul. >From Van Diemens Land it is NE to Sydney,. The Germans think we have to walk on our heads here, but we walk on our feet just like in Swabia. And our time is 9 ½ hours ahead. …… I wanted to be able to tell you whether it is good or not. As far as I can see, it would be good for you to be here too. …….. If somebody asks about us, tell them, we feel like birds freed from their cages.“ Also in the same publication, a letter from Johann Friedrich Woerner to his parents in Echterdingen, Denkendorf and Balzholz November 1852. “I cannot give enough thanks to God for leading me out of Germany. “ He goes on to talk about his wages and closed the paragraph with ”we bake our bread at home where we have a baking oven too. But we do not eat much bread: however, we have meat and tea or coffee twice a day. In Germany they say we are sold like slaves,. But that is not true. Here is no difference between master and labourer, everything I earn is my own…… Now my dear daughter, if you are well, write to me immediately and let nobody keep you from coming for we …..You will earn 20 pounds for the first year. You will never earn that much in all your life in Germany.” Another letter from the same publication in May 1853 from M Jesser to Jakob Schmidt in Kaltenweste, O.A. Besigheim Wurttemberg: ……..”Each have their own house, well built from pinewood….. It is ten thousand times better than in Germany, here they do not know tax collectors or police: it is a free country. It is even better than America as it is not as densely populated. We are doing well and have no food shortages. …..I wish all the poor people could come here, especially my mother and brother. I advise to come to Australia rather then go to America.” In a letter written in 1867 from Silesia: “For us things are getter ever worse from year to year. Dear Godmother we are now firmly resolved to come to you, I and my sister Ernestine…….you write to us asking how matters stand regarding the money necessary for the journey by land. In that regard it’s a sorry situation: and I must sincerely ask you Dear godmother please do send it. Mother can help us with nothing and everything is very dear and little in wages. Dear Godmother I must also mention when you send us the ticket for the passage ……..” from the same family undated. “I must also once again express my heartfelt thanks for the money which you have sent, I then paid debts and bought double clothing for Ernst……At present I again have great worry, namely regarding a room:I have to move out at New Year and don’t know wither. If only there were still one to be had. Then they all say ‘Yes if you had no children’ the poor children are everywhere in the way” But these are just the tip of the iceberg. It really does show that there really wasn't one reason for people emigrating. Hope you find them as interesting as we do. Regards Noel & Del Bergman

And here is another interesting article from the Courier dated 13 October 1863 - "The German Press on Immigration". - http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/3166233#pstart540488. Martyn, is there any chance of getting a copy of the advertisement for immigration to Australia please? THE GERMAN PRESS ON EMIGRATION. The last number of the German Emigration Journal, published at Bremen, contains the following :- "The Parliament of New Zealand has now among its members a German in the person of Herr F. Kelling, a native of Mecklenburg, who six years ago emigrated at the head of a body of Mecklenburg workmen and mechanics, and founded in the neighbourhood of Auckland a village that is in a flourishing condition, its population being now upwards of four hundred, and their number is rapidly increasing every day. The success of this experiment has induced the colonial government of New Zealand, through their agent in London, to make a similar grant of land to an association of Bohemians, of whom eighteen families are now on their voyage out as the pioneers of the company, and the rest are preparing to follow them immediately, and will sail from Hamburg in about a month. " The emigration to Queensland is also extending in Germany, and very naturally so, as an emigrant is now only required to pay ten dollars (30 shillings sterling) for his passage out, without having to subscribe to any onerous conditions or contract of service, but their certificates of good conduct and morality must be unexceptionable. And even this small payment is refunded on their arrival, it being merely required as a deposit to insure their punctuality in taking possession of the berth prepared for them on board the vessel chartered for their conveyance. " Queensland has an area of nine million acres, of which only 500,000 have been sold, the population being not more than 17,000 souls. The government sells land, all ready surveyed, at the rate of three dollars (nine shillings sterling) per acre. Without immigration there can be no sales of land, and the young colony cannot afford to wait for the increase of it's population from birth alone. The more people that are attracted to Queensland even without capital, if only able and willing to work, the more buyers of land for the future. It may be taken for granted that of three immigrants brought out to Queensland, at an expense of £20 each, two of them will be able to purchase a hundred acres of land each at the expiration of four years, whilst in the meantime all three will be earning their livelihood and improving the resources of the colony by indirectly contributing to the public revenue in paying their share of the import duty on the articles they consume. In this way Queensland can afford to make a temporary and apparent sacrifice by annually importing ten thousand immigrants at a charge of 200,000, which outlay is repaid in two years by the increase in the import duty alone, to say nothing of insuring possession of a fine healthy race of colonists, who, as they become independent and have amassed a small amount of capital by their industry and frugality when in the service of others, become themselves purchasers of land and part owners of the soil. If this system be continued steadily for a hundred years, at the end of that period they will have - including the increase from natural causes - a population of thirty millions, equal to that of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland." Paul -----Original Message----- From: aus-qld-se-germans-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-qld-se-germans-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Martyn Smith Sent: Tuesday, 22 June 2010 9:36 AM To: 'aus-qld-se-germans@rootsweb.com' Subject: [SEQ-Germans] Heussler and Francksen - immigration agents for QLD sent to Germany 1861 to encourage immigration. The below article is from the Moreton Bay Courier dated 16th April 1861. Advising that the Colonial government of Queensland is sending an immigration agent to educate Germans about Australia and pursue immigration. I also have a copy of an advertisement for immigration to Australia placed in a Hamburg newspaper dated 1861

My interest in German migration in the 19th century starts and stops almost with why they came, how they came, where they came from and what they did after arriving. Hence I get quite excited when we have these debates on the link. I learn a bit more and get some of my ideas either confirmed or corrected. I love it. I have done a lot of research into the why, how, where and what of German migration into Australia in the 19th century. I think I have it reasonably clear but there is still much to discover. I am writing this from memory. To understand it I find we have to consider it in 2 parts. Australia and Germany in the 19th century. German emigrants came to 5 states or colonies from 5 different parts of Germany. Remember that Germany was some 16 states or kingdoms until about 1870. The South Australians came from Silesia and Saxony. The first group came out because of persecution and arrived in about 1838. There can be little doubt that religious persecution was their reason although one wonders how many families came for the adventure. The migrants who followed these came because they had family in the first group or because of opportunities and letters home raving about the land of milk and honey and peace and freedom. Victoria is interesting because they came from 2 different areas. Those migrating into the western districts and places west of the Hume Highway came across from South Australia because land became scarce in the Barossa. Right across Melbourne we can find small pockets that were once German settlements. It seems that by the second generation these settlers had integrated totally into the overall population. I am often intrigued at how much the German influence had on Melbourne's development. Those people like those coming to Geelong appear to have came from the Slavic states of Eastern Germany. The potato disease seems to be the cause of leaving Germany There was a German migration into Tasmania but I have not yet been able to find anything about it. I just know it happened. New South Wales is fascinating. Popular theory is that there was no German migration into that state but like the persecution theory that is a myth. There was a very large German migration from the Rhine regions into New South Wales from the 1820s onward although the main influx was in the 1840s. They were brought out on contract to work the vineyards in the Hunter Valley, Camden area and Mudgee. After the contracts finished they often drifted across the range west and south. Albury already had a large German population before the South Australians migrated across to Jindera. Kirchner was a consul and business man who established a number if industries in the Northern Rivers. He brought Germans out to man his industries. Hence there was a large German population around Grafton and they also scattered across the tablelands. The majority of these migrants were Roman Catholic and they seem to have integrated immediately into the Irish Catholic communities. It seems that by the third generation all traces of German ancestry had been eliminated and I have found people of German descent who did not know it. I will later mention the migrants coming to Brisbane and moving down to Tenterfield and the New England. I would say that the German migration into NSW was as big as in South Australia but am open to correction. It is only my assessment which might be wrong. Queensland is the real place for Germen migration. The Germans coming to Queensland far outnumber those to South Australia. They came out under 3 different programmes. The first group arrived about 1832. J.D.Lang had a grand idea to civlise and Christianise the aborigines population. He decided that the best people to do this were the Germans so he went to the Gossner Mission School in Berlin looking for candidates. The first group arrived but the missions ideal never occurred. The realised almost immediately that there were vast opportunity in farming and trades and business so that was where they put their efforts. >From then on the government periodically sponsored Germans to come for mission ministry, to minister to the German communities and to provide tradesmen and business professional. They also encouraged the odd family to come unsupported and try their luck. The majority of Germans coming to Queensland came from the northern states of Pomerania and Brandenburg. A fellow named Lloyd who lived at Drayton and a fellow named Haussler who was a businessman in Brisbane undertook to bring Germans out as shepherds and farm labourers for the settlers on the Darling Downs and the New England of NSW. These two gentlemen went to Germany and persuaded people to come on a 2 year contract. The contract was similar to the one used to bring the Germans from the Rhine to the Hunter valley and NSW. I have a copy of Fred Kummerow's contract and am happy to share it on the link. He was engaged for 2 years. Every family member except the wife who was over 12 years of age was also engaged. They kept the families togethers where possible. During that 2 years the family received their rations for food, accommodation, some clothing and medical. They were paid a wage but part of that wage was retained to cover the cost of the shipping. Once the contract finished the family could leave. Most families left after about 5 years. The last scheme was where the government reclaimed land and divided it into smaller lots. This happened mostly in the Lockyer and Fassifern valleys Haussler in particular, wet to Germany to persuade people to come out for land parcels. On arrival the family was placed in a Migrant Hostel and then allotted a block of land. Every son over the age or 16 could get a block of land. Blocks were in sizes of 2 , 5, 10, 20, 40 or 80 acres. He was given a small loan and had to occupy within days and be productive within, I think, 5 years. That was the enticement to come but what enticed them to leave. This gets complex. As Germany entered the 19th century the old feudal system that had functioned for 1000 years was gradually closed down. Land was resumed from the barons and broken into blocks for families to farm. Suddenly the peasants were no longer peasants but land owners in their own right. This was not easy for many who now and to find ways to get their weekly food ration and clothing. For centuries they and their ancestor's and relied on the baron. The contracts offered in Australia were attractive. They could return to the life they understood. Somebody else did the caring and they just did the work. To add to these woes there was a disease in the potato and other root crops in the 1840s. They had 3 years of no corps followed by years of bad rainfalls. The agents presented a story of a land without disease and ample opportunity with wonderful weather. This was paradise. As the sons grew to men there developed a land shortage in Germany. In the past the baron found work of the sons and they all lived and worked for him. Now they had to find more land or move on to the cities. Another option was to migrate. The youngest son stayed home to inherit the farm while the older sons would often migrate. When the man arrived offering land for nothing in this new south land they grabbed it. There was a period of religious persecution in Silesia in the 1820s. How much the memory of this continued in people's mind is unknown. There was no actual persecution after about 1835. Germany became an industrial nation in the 19th century. Its industrial growth with foundries and railways was faster and greater than anything in Britain. Education grew at an equal rate. The literate and academic level of the Germans migrating to Queensland was higher than that of their English counterparts. Thus led to men like Karl Marx making their voices heard. It led to problems with workers demanding better pay and conditions. In 1848 there were massive strikes and riots throughout Germany. No country likes conscription into military service. The Prussians had a conscription programme and the people hated it. Young mend migrated. Young men just fled Germany. Families fled to avoid their sons being conscripted. Families migrated to avoid their sons being conscripted. Johann Hoffmann is repute to have said the he did not raise 8 sons to rage war against his people to satisfy the Prussian bully. Finally there was the rise of the Kaiser and the coming of Prussia. By the 1870s all 16 states had been brought under Prussian control. The people hated the Prussians. They could not get away fast enough. Hope this helps understand it all a little Albert Grulke

Hi, The following may be of interest... The below article is from the Moreton Bay Courier dated 16th April 1861. Advising that the Colonial government of Queensland is sending an immigration agent to educate Germans about Australia and pursue immigration. I also have a copy of an advertisement for immigration to Australia placed in a Hamburg newspaper dated 1861 You can also view the original on line at the following URL http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/3716356 GERMAN IMMIGRATION. DURING the month, Mr. John Christian Heussler, principal in the firm of Heussler and Francksen, of this city, -- has taken his departure for Europe, having been appointed by the Queensland government to act as Agent for the colony, for emigration purposes on that continent. The Germans have always proved useful colonists hitherto, and the idea has gained universal acceptance that, of all others, immigrants of this nationality are most likely to further the development of our agricultural resources. It was with a due appreciation of the value of the Germans as colonists, that the government extended to Europeans as well as to the inhabitants of the United Kingdom, the benefits arising from the new land laws, and the system of immigration which Mr. Heussler has gone home to carry out, is founded in connection with the regulations laid down in those laws. feeling that some effort is necessary to assist Mr. Heussler in his mission, the Germans of Brisbane and its vicinity are about to form a species of association for the purpose of disseminating throughout the Germanic States, but more especially the Prussian dominions, a know- ledge of the colony -- with regard to the geographical position, climate, capabilities, and resources of which the German peasant is far more ignorant than the most uninformed of England's husbandmen. It is the intention of the association to forward to the principal German newspapers translations of extracts from a pamphlet recently published anen! t the colony by Mr. Pugh, and occasional letters with regard to the political and social progress of Queensland. The " Ger- man element" in the community is at pre- sent somewhat feeble in point of numbers, but there is no lack of energy on the part of the most influential among them, and if they but carry out the project they have just mooted, their conduct will present an example worthy the adoption of their British fellow colonists. _____ Martyn

I was about to write a long email saying what Chris has just written. I am writing now to support his comments because they are so very important in understand why our ancestors migrated. In fact my research tells me that it may be that Fristchke's group did not come because of persecution. They were a deeply conservative religious group as history of the former ELCA will show. It is possible that they began to organise to migrate because of the persecution but by the time they left Silesia the persecution had ceased. I believe they did come because of their religious convictions but have doubts about it being due to the persecution. All research I have done shows that no other groups or individuals ever came out because of persecution. The South Australian Germans from Silesia were Lutheran and did come in connection with the church but the reason for migrating were due to family already here and opportunities prevailing in South Australia that could never prevail in Germany. I have found absolutely no evidence to support any theory that German migration to Victoria, Queensland or New South Wales had anything to do with religion. Albert Grulke -----Original Message----- From: aus-qld-se-germans-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-qld-se-germans-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Chris Schmidt Sent: Monday, 21 June 2010 7:55 PM To: aus-qld-se-germans@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SEQ-Germans] re Emigration- religious persecution Hi The fact that they were receiving religious persecution is overstated as a reason for immigration in the case of Queensland. It was certainly a major factor in the early German settlement in South Australia with three ships that arrived in 1839 with Pastor Kavel's flock and then Pastor Fritzsche's flock arriving in 1842. However, laws were passed in 1845 guaranteeing religious persecution. In my South Australian research of the South Australian branches of my family, I have found that people were often granted permission to emigrate in one year, but actually didn't emigrate until much later. Therefore, it remained a factor in people's minds- and -perhaps also concerned about a change in policy- until the 1850s. Certainly, however, by the time the heaviest German immigration to the Rosewood Scrub, Boonah and Lockyer areas was happening, it was nolonger a factor. We can see in South Australia where the settlers did come because of the religious persecution, they maintained a much stronger cultural identity and maintained their religious ties. If you go into these areas today they are still strongly Lutheran and have a Germanised cultural identity that is a mixture of German and English. There is even a German dialect that was spoken extensively in the Barossa and still is to some extent today called Barossa Deutsch which is sort of an anglicised German. Definitely, in Queensland German immigration has had a cultural impact on the areas they settled but not to the same extent. You don't see them holding on to their religion quite so ardently either----- they were pious, religious people in the large part whose faith was important them. But they were perhaps not as well educated and they were simple folk where denomination was not a priority- which it is amongst those that came here because of persecution- and taking my example of my BEUTEL and KAPERNICK ancestors who all were Lutheran originally, within one generation of being in Australia you have ever denomination under the sun including Catholic, Apostolic, Methodist, Presbyterian and Anglican and others. One thing that suprised when I started researching my Kapernick ancestors was the number of Catholic marriages, when in those days Catholics and protestants- particularly Lutheran- didn't mix. It certainly wouldn't have happened to the same extent in South Australia where they held on to denomination ties fiercely and even the different Synods that developed within Lutheranism didnt intermarry much. During the 1830s and 1840s groups went to United States for reasons of persecutionl. Somehow, though, it seems to have established itself as a major reason for emigration in Australia when the facts simply do not bear up to it. Of course, some of the early "German" settlers on the downs- most of the m were actually born here- were descendants of those settlers to South Australia that had moved here to find more cheaper and better land. Quite a few families came from the western dictricts of Victoria, to Queensland which were originally before that from South Australia! Thats why they are related! LOL! Even with the Bethania Lutherans that came around 1867 from memory and are said to have come here because of persecution, when this is deeply examined in the primary source material and diaries of the settlers it simply proves not to be true. It is possible that the persecution was a factor in SOME of the earlier Germans to come. Regards Chris ________________________________ From: Anna Bell <anna670@gmail.com> To: aus-qld-se-germans@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, 21 June, 2010 3:01:55 PM Subject: [SEQ-Germans] re Emigration Hello list Re german emigration the Aust Govt open up land for settlement in 1870. .Thus may be one of the reasons for the change of destination for Hamburg passenfers. Plus religious persecution they were enduring at home. Regards Anna Archives - http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/AUS-QLD-SE-Germans.html Quoting the entire text of a previous message in a reply is poor netiquette. Please don't do it. A List for the research for the descendants of the Germans who migrated to South East Queensland, Australia. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-QLD-SE-GERMANS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Archives - http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/AUS-QLD-SE-Germans.html Quoting the entire text of a previous message in a reply is poor netiquette. Please don't do it. A List for the research for the descendants of the Germans who migrated to South East Queensland, Australia. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-QLD-SE-GERMANS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello list Re german emigration the Aust Govt open up land for settlement in 1870. .Thus may be one of the reasons for the change of destination for Hamburg passenfers. Plus religious persecution they were enduring at home. Regards Anna

When I was pursuing the story of German migration to NSW I found that often the ship left Hamburg and had to stop in England for various reasons associated with their migration papers and the ship getting as clearance to sail to the colonies. Apparently the ships going to America also had to stop in London or Plymouth . It seems to me that due to wars in America and political issues relating to the USA and Britain some ships were actually diverted in England and sent to Australia. It seems also that in some instances papers did not allow migration to America. For example sometimes only married couples could migrate. In the NSW story we have a number of couples who left the Rhine as singles but married in London to allow migration. I do know that Peter Mutze and his lady friend eloped from Dresden because her parents disapproved of him. They somehow got to England on a ship bound for America. The civil war was raging in the USA and the English authorities would not allow the migrant ship to sail while hostilities lasted. The ship was diverted to Merton Bay. I amok still trying to make sens opt a lot of this but that seems to be one explanation. Albert Grulke -----Original Message----- From: aus-qld-se-germans-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-qld-se-germans-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Noel & Del Bergman Sent: Sunday, 20 June 2010 5:12 PM To: lois; AUS-QLD-SE-Germans-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SEQ-Germans] ZILLMANN SCHAEFER ARNDT BRANDENBURG EMIGRATION Hi Lois, We have found one families emigration record that is similar but not quite the same. The Harch Family who married in Schmölln Brandenburg in 1882 arrived in Australia on the ship "Quetta". However on the Ancestry website Hamburg Passenger Lists 1850-1934 has the family as travelling from Hamburg to North America via London. It is interesting that a sibling of this Friedrich Harch then travelled to Australia on the "Merkara" in 1884, the same ship as the Schafer and Arndt's. http://search.ancestry.com/search/db.aspx?dbid=1068 (unfortunately we don't think this site is free) The actual information is 1883: Hamburg Passenger List Name: Friedrich Harch Departure Date: 4 Apr 1883 Destination: New York Estimated birth year: abt 1857 Age Year: 26 Gender: männlich (Male) Family: Household members Residence: Schmölln, Preußen Occupation: Arbeiter Ship Name: Jessica Captain: Linicke Shipping Line: A. Kirsten, Hamburg Ship Type: Dampfschiff Accommodation: ohne Angabe Ship Flag: Deutschland Port of Departure: Hamburg Port of Arrival: London (Nordamerika via London) So this shows that people may have applied to emigrate and start out for one place and end up travelling to a different place altogether. We may never know the reason why. We will take note of other examples we find in the future. Regards Noel & Del Bergman 1865 Susanne Godeffroy Project From: "lois" <nore7mac@optusnet.com.au> To: "ausqldgers" <aus-qld-se-germans@rootsweb.com> Date sent: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 14:26:32 +1000 Subject: [SEQ-Germans] ZILLMANN SCHAEFER ARNDT BRANDENBURG EMIGRATION Send reply to: aus-qld-se-germans@rootsweb.com [ Double-click this line for list subscription options ] I have been reading comments about emigration with interest and for the first time checked out some of my ancestors on the Brandenburg Emigration Index. My grandmother's parents, C.F.W. ZILLLMAN (b. 1847) and Auguste Wilhelmine SCHAEFER (b. 1845) arrived in Queensland 16/07/1870 on the "Humboldt." Auguste's sister Marie Wilhelmine Ernestine Schaefer (b. 1859) m. August ARNDT arrived on 18/11/1884 on the "Merkara." The Schaefer parents, JOHANN JULIUS SCHAEFER (b. 1818) and Charlotte SCHMIDT (b. 1821 Schmoelln) came with them, Charlotte dying just four months after her arrival, and Johann Julius in 1907. There were details of all these emigrations in the Brandenburg register, but quite surprisingly, the whole Schaefer family - parents, these two daughters, plus two sons, are shown as going to, or applying to go to, Africa in 1858, and then Russia in 1862. It seems unlikely that they would actually have gone, and then returned to their place of origin (Eikstedt). Thus it m! ust have been easier to get permission to go than to actually go. It does sound as though people in general were desperate to get away. Has anyone else found ancestors applying to go to different countries at different times like this? Lois Cameron. Archives - http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/AUS-QLD-SE-Germans.html Quoting the entire text of a previous message in a reply is poor netiquette. Please don't do it. A List for the research for the descendants of the Germans who migrated to South East Queensland, Australia. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-QLD-SE-GERMANS- request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Archives - http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/AUS-QLD-SE-Germans.html Quoting the entire text of a previous message in a reply is poor netiquette. Please don't do it. A List for the research for the descendants of the Germans who migrated to South East Queensland, Australia. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-QLD-SE-GERMANS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Noel & Del I have passed this information on to the descendents of this family and I am sure that they will do a follow up. Cheers Bob

Thank you John, that was a very interesting story. Helen > John Heinemann <john.heinemann@ozemail.com.au> wrote: > > 2. Re: Reason for diverting from South Africa (Anna Bell) > > I have found the article below that was printed in a South African > newspaper > The Daily Dispatch two years ago. While it does not indicate why some > migrants approved to go to Africa came to Australia, it does indicate > the > reasons why the British Governor was seeking German migrants. > > John Heinemann > > > 2008/07/07 > SO WHAT did the Germans ever do for us besides bratwurst and beer? Quite > a > lot actually, say the experts. This month marks the 150th anniversary of > the > arrival of the German Settlers in the Eastern Cape - and there is a host > of > celebrations and exhibitions to commemorate their contribution to the > Border > region. > > > >From villages and towns such as Berlin, Stutterheim, Breidbach, Potsdam > and > Hamburg, to the distinctive white Eastern Cape accent and shweshwe > fabric, > these settlers have exerted more influence on our neck of the woods than > many people know. > > > "From the historical, agricultural and community development perspective > they had a role to play," said Mark Pautz, a descendant of the German > settlers who has researched his family tree back to the 1700s. > Pautz will be presenting a talk, A Personal Journey through Genealogy, > at > the Amathole Museum in King William's Town today. > "They were brought in by the British colonialists as a buffer in the > Border > wars. The fact that there are places like Berlin in the middle of Africa > is > kind of weird. It adds a bit of colour," he said. > East London historian Dr Keith Tankard said the history of the Germans > was > alive in East London today. "Have you ever noticed the accents of the > whites > in the Eastern Cape? It's what we call the East Cape accent. You go > across > to the West Bank and speak to the children and they've all got a strange > accent. That accent is the remnants of German," he said. > Tankard also said what we know today as shweshwe fabric originated in > Germany and it was later adopted by the Xhosas. > "The original German print would be blue pictures on white cloth but > then it > changed to red and other colours," he said. German surnames are common > in > this part of the Eastern Cape and many people of German descent are not > aware of their roots and family history. One such East Londoner, > Samantha > Kretzmann, was surprised when 200 people turned up at a Kretzmann family > reunion in Gonubie two years ago. > "It was such a magic moment," she said. "The interesting part was to see > all > these people and to see where my history all started." > > Pautz was born in East London in 1961 and grew up listening to stories > about > the family history from his father - former Daily Dispatch journalist > Beau > Pautz. When his father - who had an old sword that a family member had > brought to East London in 1858 - passed away, it was up to him to find > the > missing pieces of the puzzle. > "As a young boy I used to see the War Memorial in King William's Town," > said > Pautz. "The interesting story for me is that my grandfather from my > mother's > side was part of the team that built the memorial ... The brass plaque > of > the memorial had the name William Albert Pautz. He is my great uncle who > died in the First World War. That always fascinated me and I wanted to > know > more about these stories." > > > > According to Tankard, the first group of Germans was brought to the > Eastern > Cape by the Cape Colony's governor, Sir George Grey, as a means of > creating > peace on the frontier by non- military means. He wanted retired military > officers aged about 45 who were married with children, to come to the > region. The idea was to settle these families in villages across British > Kaffraria, to create schools, hospitals and mission stations. Grey > believed > such a move would help convert the Xhosa to western ways and to > Christianity > - and create employment for them. But less than 100 soldiers > volunteered, > says Tankard. > The government was unwilling to provide the money for their immigration. > But > Grey used scare tactics to get it to comply, saying another war with the > Xhosa was imminent. > To make up the numbers, adverts were soon placed in Britain for > thousands of > pensioners to take up the offer - but there were few takers. > So the British sent Grey 2 362 German soldiers, of whom only 362 were > married. These were mercenaries recruited by the British German Legion > during the Crimean War. > > In the Eastern Cape, they separated into three legions: the first went > west > of the Keiskamma River in Hamburg, Wooldridge and Peddie, the second > found a > home in Berlin, Postdam and Breidbach, and the third legion was > stationed in > the Stutterheim area. But Grey still needed women and so followed the > Lady > Kennaway - a ship loaded with single women from Northern Ireland. Only a > few > of them ended up marrying the soldiers as they had little to offer them, > said Tankard. > Grey then created another scheme. > "He arranged with a German company to recruit German peasant farmers. > "He wanted 2000 families a year to be sent out. The advantage is that > they > were farmers," said Tankard. "The legions were made up of soldiers and > they > didn't know how to farm. > "They (peasant farmers) would teach the soldiers how to farm, and would > be > married." > The first ship carrying the peasant farmers, the Caesar Godeffroy, > arrived > on July 7, 1858. > > > > Pautz has discovered that his family arrived on August 28, 1858, on the > La > Rochelle, a ship which sailed with 463 passengers. The three- month > voyage > claimed the lives of 23 passengers - including 17 children and six > adults. > The Pautz family history came to light when he contacted the Amathole > Museum > in King William's Town. > They sent him background information on his family and one of the names > that > cropped up was Johann Friedrich Wilhelm Pautz, who was born in the 1850s > in > Wisbu, Pomerania. He could not, however, locate the place on modern maps > in > the early 1990s when he started his research. > "It took me another 10 years," said Pautz. " I had a German friend at > the > University of Pretoria and we were drinking extensively one night and he > pulled out a pre- Second World War map of Germany. It transpired that > this > place is now in western Poland." > In the 1850s Pomerania was part of Prussia. > Pautz's journey into his family history even took him to Prague in the > Czech > Republic where he lived and found employment. Eventually, he learned > that > his family split in three directions in the 1850s: to South Africa, > France > and America. > In South Africa, Pautz's forefathers lived in Braunschweig, north of > King > William's Town and their gravesites are still in the area. > Recently there have been calls to remove colonial memorials in East > London - > including the German Settlers Memorial on the Esplanade. Pautz, however, > said the removal of the monument would not change history. > "You can remove the statues because they are just symbols but you can't > do > away with history," he said. "That's the underlying factor in it. > Regimes > and symbols come and go. I think we are in a time and a place where we > need > to embrace our own history and not try to pigeon- hole it. > "It's all our history and in it there are common things that bind us > together, whether good or bad. Let's learn from the bad things that have > happened, pick the good things and move ahead." > > Archives - > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/AUS-QLD-SE-Germans.html > > Quoting the entire text of a previous message in a reply is poor > netiquette. Please don't do it. > > A List for the research for the descendants of the Germans who migrated > to South East Queensland, Australia. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-QLD-SE-GERMANS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi The fact that they were receiving religious persecution is overstated as a reason for immigration in the case of Queensland. It was certainly a major factor in the early German settlement in South Australia with three ships that arrived in 1839 with Pastor Kavel's flock and then Pastor Fritzsche's flock arriving in 1842. However, laws were passed in 1845 guaranteeing religious persecution. In my South Australian research of the South Australian branches of my family, I have found that people were often granted permission to emigrate in one year, but actually didn't emigrate until much later. Therefore, it remained a factor in people's minds- and -perhaps also concerned about a change in policy- until the 1850s. Certainly, however, by the time the heaviest German immigration to the Rosewood Scrub, Boonah and Lockyer areas was happening, it was nolonger a factor. We can see in South Australia where the settlers did come because of the religious persecution, they maintained a much stronger cultural identity and maintained their religious ties. If you go into these areas today they are still strongly Lutheran and have a Germanised cultural identity that is a mixture of German and English. There is even a German dialect that was spoken extensively in the Barossa and still is to some extent today called Barossa Deutsch which is sort of an anglicised German. Definitely, in Queensland German immigration has had a cultural impact on the areas they settled but not to the same extent. You don't see them holding on to their religion quite so ardently either----- they were pious, religious people in the large part whose faith was important them. But they were perhaps not as well educated and they were simple folk where denomination was not a priority- which it is amongst those that came here because of persecution- and taking my example of my BEUTEL and KAPERNICK ancestors who all were Lutheran originally, within one generation of being in Australia you have ever denomination under the sun including Catholic, Apostolic, Methodist, Presbyterian and Anglican and others. One thing that suprised when I started researching my Kapernick ancestors was the number of Catholic marriages, when in those days Catholics and protestants- particularly Lutheran- didn't mix. It certainly wouldn't have happened to the same extent in South Australia where they held on to denomination ties fiercely and even the different Synods that developed within Lutheranism didnt intermarry much. During the 1830s and 1840s groups went to United States for reasons of persecutionl. Somehow, though, it seems to have established itself as a major reason for emigration in Australia when the facts simply do not bear up to it. Of course, some of the early "German" settlers on the downs- most of the m were actually born here- were descendants of those settlers to South Australia that had moved here to find more cheaper and better land. Quite a few families came from the western dictricts of Victoria, to Queensland which were originally before that from South Australia! Thats why they are related! LOL! Even with the Bethania Lutherans that came around 1867 from memory and are said to have come here because of persecution, when this is deeply examined in the primary source material and diaries of the settlers it simply proves not to be true. It is possible that the persecution was a factor in SOME of the earlier Germans to come. Regards Chris ________________________________ From: Anna Bell <anna670@gmail.com> To: aus-qld-se-germans@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, 21 June, 2010 3:01:55 PM Subject: [SEQ-Germans] re Emigration Hello list Re german emigration the Aust Govt open up land for settlement in 1870. .Thus may be one of the reasons for the change of destination for Hamburg passenfers. Plus religious persecution they were enduring at home. Regards Anna Archives - http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/AUS-QLD-SE-Germans.html Quoting the entire text of a previous message in a reply is poor netiquette. Please don't do it. A List for the research for the descendants of the Germans who migrated to South East Queensland, Australia. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-QLD-SE-GERMANS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

2. Re: Reason for diverting from South Africa (Anna Bell) I have found the article below that was printed in a South African newspaper The Daily Dispatch two years ago. While it does not indicate why some migrants approved to go to Africa came to Australia, it does indicate the reasons why the British Governor was seeking German migrants. John Heinemann 2008/07/07 SO WHAT did the Germans ever do for us besides bratwurst and beer? Quite a lot actually, say the experts. This month marks the 150th anniversary of the arrival of the German Settlers in the Eastern Cape - and there is a host of celebrations and exhibitions to commemorate their contribution to the Border region. >From villages and towns such as Berlin, Stutterheim, Breidbach, Potsdam and Hamburg, to the distinctive white Eastern Cape accent and shweshwe fabric, these settlers have exerted more influence on our neck of the woods than many people know. "From the historical, agricultural and community development perspective they had a role to play," said Mark Pautz, a descendant of the German settlers who has researched his family tree back to the 1700s. Pautz will be presenting a talk, A Personal Journey through Genealogy, at the Amathole Museum in King William's Town today. "They were brought in by the British colonialists as a buffer in the Border wars. The fact that there are places like Berlin in the middle of Africa is kind of weird. It adds a bit of colour," he said. East London historian Dr Keith Tankard said the history of the Germans was alive in East London today. "Have you ever noticed the accents of the whites in the Eastern Cape? It's what we call the East Cape accent. You go across to the West Bank and speak to the children and they've all got a strange accent. That accent is the remnants of German," he said. Tankard also said what we know today as shweshwe fabric originated in Germany and it was later adopted by the Xhosas. "The original German print would be blue pictures on white cloth but then it changed to red and other colours," he said. German surnames are common in this part of the Eastern Cape and many people of German descent are not aware of their roots and family history. One such East Londoner, Samantha Kretzmann, was surprised when 200 people turned up at a Kretzmann family reunion in Gonubie two years ago. "It was such a magic moment," she said. "The interesting part was to see all these people and to see where my history all started." Pautz was born in East London in 1961 and grew up listening to stories about the family history from his father - former Daily Dispatch journalist Beau Pautz. When his father - who had an old sword that a family member had brought to East London in 1858 - passed away, it was up to him to find the missing pieces of the puzzle. "As a young boy I used to see the War Memorial in King William's Town," said Pautz. "The interesting story for me is that my grandfather from my mother's side was part of the team that built the memorial ... The brass plaque of the memorial had the name William Albert Pautz. He is my great uncle who died in the First World War. That always fascinated me and I wanted to know more about these stories." According to Tankard, the first group of Germans was brought to the Eastern Cape by the Cape Colony's governor, Sir George Grey, as a means of creating peace on the frontier by non- military means. He wanted retired military officers aged about 45 who were married with children, to come to the region. The idea was to settle these families in villages across British Kaffraria, to create schools, hospitals and mission stations. Grey believed such a move would help convert the Xhosa to western ways and to Christianity - and create employment for them. But less than 100 soldiers volunteered, says Tankard. The government was unwilling to provide the money for their immigration. But Grey used scare tactics to get it to comply, saying another war with the Xhosa was imminent. To make up the numbers, adverts were soon placed in Britain for thousands of pensioners to take up the offer - but there were few takers. So the British sent Grey 2 362 German soldiers, of whom only 362 were married. These were mercenaries recruited by the British German Legion during the Crimean War. In the Eastern Cape, they separated into three legions: the first went west of the Keiskamma River in Hamburg, Wooldridge and Peddie, the second found a home in Berlin, Postdam and Breidbach, and the third legion was stationed in the Stutterheim area. But Grey still needed women and so followed the Lady Kennaway - a ship loaded with single women from Northern Ireland. Only a few of them ended up marrying the soldiers as they had little to offer them, said Tankard. Grey then created another scheme. "He arranged with a German company to recruit German peasant farmers. "He wanted 2000 families a year to be sent out. The advantage is that they were farmers," said Tankard. "The legions were made up of soldiers and they didn't know how to farm. "They (peasant farmers) would teach the soldiers how to farm, and would be married." The first ship carrying the peasant farmers, the Caesar Godeffroy, arrived on July 7, 1858. Pautz has discovered that his family arrived on August 28, 1858, on the La Rochelle, a ship which sailed with 463 passengers. The three- month voyage claimed the lives of 23 passengers - including 17 children and six adults. The Pautz family history came to light when he contacted the Amathole Museum in King William's Town. They sent him background information on his family and one of the names that cropped up was Johann Friedrich Wilhelm Pautz, who was born in the 1850s in Wisbu, Pomerania. He could not, however, locate the place on modern maps in the early 1990s when he started his research. "It took me another 10 years," said Pautz. " I had a German friend at the University of Pretoria and we were drinking extensively one night and he pulled out a pre- Second World War map of Germany. It transpired that this place is now in western Poland." In the 1850s Pomerania was part of Prussia. Pautz's journey into his family history even took him to Prague in the Czech Republic where he lived and found employment. Eventually, he learned that his family split in three directions in the 1850s: to South Africa, France and America. In South Africa, Pautz's forefathers lived in Braunschweig, north of King William's Town and their gravesites are still in the area. Recently there have been calls to remove colonial memorials in East London - including the German Settlers Memorial on the Esplanade. Pautz, however, said the removal of the monument would not change history. "You can remove the statues because they are just symbols but you can't do away with history," he said. "That's the underlying factor in it. Regimes and symbols come and go. I think we are in a time and a place where we need to embrace our own history and not try to pigeon- hole it. "It's all our history and in it there are common things that bind us together, whether good or bad. Let's learn from the bad things that have happened, pick the good things and move ahead."

Hi Lois, We have found one families emigration record that is similar but not quite the same. The Harch Family who married in Schmölln Brandenburg in 1882 arrived in Australia on the ship "Quetta". However on the Ancestry website Hamburg Passenger Lists 1850-1934 has the family as travelling from Hamburg to North America via London. It is interesting that a sibling of this Friedrich Harch then travelled to Australia on the "Merkara" in 1884, the same ship as the Schafer and Arndt's. http://search.ancestry.com/search/db.aspx?dbid=1068 (unfortunately we don't think this site is free) The actual information is 1883: Hamburg Passenger List Name: Friedrich Harch Departure Date: 4 Apr 1883 Destination: New York Estimated birth year: abt 1857 Age Year: 26 Gender: männlich (Male) Family: Household members Residence: Schmölln, Preußen Occupation: Arbeiter Ship Name: Jessica Captain: Linicke Shipping Line: A. Kirsten, Hamburg Ship Type: Dampfschiff Accommodation: ohne Angabe Ship Flag: Deutschland Port of Departure: Hamburg Port of Arrival: London (Nordamerika via London) So this shows that people may have applied to emigrate and start out for one place and end up travelling to a different place altogether. We may never know the reason why. We will take note of other examples we find in the future. Regards Noel & Del Bergman 1865 Susanne Godeffroy Project From: "lois" <nore7mac@optusnet.com.au> To: "ausqldgers" <aus-qld-se-germans@rootsweb.com> Date sent: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 14:26:32 +1000 Subject: [SEQ-Germans] ZILLMANN SCHAEFER ARNDT BRANDENBURG EMIGRATION Send reply to: aus-qld-se-germans@rootsweb.com [ Double-click this line for list subscription options ] I have been reading comments about emigration with interest and for the first time checked out some of my ancestors on the Brandenburg Emigration Index. My grandmother's parents, C.F.W. ZILLLMAN (b. 1847) and Auguste Wilhelmine SCHAEFER (b. 1845) arrived in Queensland 16/07/1870 on the "Humboldt." Auguste's sister Marie Wilhelmine Ernestine Schaefer (b. 1859) m. August ARNDT arrived on 18/11/1884 on the "Merkara." The Schaefer parents, JOHANN JULIUS SCHAEFER (b. 1818) and Charlotte SCHMIDT (b. 1821 Schmoelln) came with them, Charlotte dying just four months after her arrival, and Johann Julius in 1907. There were details of all these emigrations in the Brandenburg register, but quite surprisingly, the whole Schaefer family - parents, these two daughters, plus two sons, are shown as going to, or applying to go to, Africa in 1858, and then Russia in 1862. It seems unlikely that they would actually have gone, and then returned to their place of origin (Eikstedt). Thus it m! ust have been easier to get permission to go than to actually go. It does sound as though people in general were desperate to get away. Has anyone else found ancestors applying to go to different countries at different times like this? Lois Cameron. Archives - http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/AUS-QLD-SE-Germans.html Quoting the entire text of a previous message in a reply is poor netiquette. Please don't do it. A List for the research for the descendants of the Germans who migrated to South East Queensland, Australia. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-QLD-SE-GERMANS- request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

----- Original Message ----- From: lois To: Chris Schmidt Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 7:11 PM Subject: Re: [SEQ-Germans] ZILLMANN SCHAEFER ARNDT BRANDENBURG- Any connection with August ZILLMANN Chris - there were 3 main Zillmann families in Queensland as far as I can fathom. (1) The missionary Zillmann of Nundah was not connected as far as I know. (2) August Hugo Glabbert-Zillmann was distantly related to (3) C.F.W. Zillmann, my great grandfather. 'Our' family was - Marie Ernestine Z m. Wilhelm August Schimke, my grandmother Bertha Louise Z who married Wilhelm Paul Knopke, Wilhelm Friedrich Z, Adolf Carl Z, Carl August Z, Frank Max Z, Augusta Emilie Z m. Ludwig Richard Knopke, Ferdinand Ludwig Z, Gustav Albert Z and Frederick Z. Two of Ludwig Richard/Auguste Emilie Knopke's daughters married Zillmanns who were descendants of August Zillmann. One distant Beutel connection I know of is from my mother's side - Emma Johanne Auguste Kamp b. 1867 m. Ferdinand Beutel - don't have anything on descendants apart from what can be found in indexes - Emma Kamp's father Samuel was a brother of my great-great-grandmother Frederika Emilie Christina Kamp m. Christian Friedrich Draheim. ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Schmidt To: aus-qld-se-germans@rootsweb.com ; nore7mac@optusnet.com.au Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 4:47 PM Subject: Re: [SEQ-Germans] ZILLMANN SCHAEFER ARNDT BRANDENBURG- Any connection with August ZILLMANN Hi Lois I noticed your posting on Christian ZILLMANN. I have in my tree August Hugo Glabbert-Zillmann sometimes just called ZILLMANN. He was born 27 Mar 1841Brandenburg, Prussia d. 7 Aug 1917 Hatton Vale, Qld and married 4 Mar 1866 in Damme, Prenzlau, Brandenburg, Prussia Johanne Christine Wilhelmine SPRUNG b. 7 Jan 1844 Grenz, Prenzlau, Brandenburg, Prussia d. 22 Feb 1928 Hatton Vale, Qld. August is the son of Hugo GLABBERT and Wilhelmine Christine Luise ZILLMANN. Wilhelmine is the daughter Daniel ZILLMANN and Marie Elisabeth BEUTEL. Wilhelmine also had a brother Daniel. I was wondering is your Christian connected to August. I do know that a daughter of Christian ZILLMANN by the name of Auguste Emilie ZILLMANN b. 1884 married on the 10 Dec 1908 Ludwig Richard KNOPKE b. 12 Nov 1886 Hatton Vale. Their daughter Rosie Amanda Knopke b. 4 May 1913 in Laidley, Qld married Walter Richard ZILLMANN b. 5 May 1909. Walter is a grandson of the above August. I am interested in the ZILLMANN family for a number of reasons: I am tracing all BEUTEL descendants from Brandenburg to Queensland. We have had some success in tying the different branches together. Also two of Augusts grandsons marry into my Kapernick family as do other descendants. They also marry back into the Beutel family Regards Chris ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: lois <nore7mac@optusnet.com.au> To: ausqldgers <aus-qld-se-germans@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sat, 19 June, 2010 2:26:32 PM Subject: [SEQ-Germans] ZILLMANN SCHAEFE R ARNDT BRANDENBURG EMIGRATION I have been reading comments about emigration with interest and for the first time checked out some of my ancestors on the Brandenburg Emigration Index. My grandmother's parents, C.F.W. ZILLLMAN (b. 1847) and Auguste Wilhelmine SCHAEFER (b. 1845) arrived in Queensland 16/07/1870 on the "Humboldt." Auguste's sister Marie Wilhelmine Ernestine Schaefer (b. 1859) m. August ARNDT arrived on 18/11/1884 on the "Merkara." The Schaefer parents, JOHANN JULIUS SCHAEFER (b. 1818) and Charlotte SCHMIDT (b. 1821 Schmoelln) came with them, Charlotte dying just four months after her arrival, and Johann Julius in 1907. There were details of all these emigrations in the Brandenburg register, but quite surprisingly, the whole Schaefer family - parents, these two daughters, plus two sons, are shown as going to, or applying to go to, Africa in 1858, and then Russia in 1862. It seems unlikely that they would actually have gone, and then returned to their place of origin (Eikstedt). Thus it m! ust have been easier to get permission to go than to actually go. It does sound as though people in general were desperate to get away. Has anyone else found ancestors applying to go to different countries at different times like this? Lois Cameron. Archives - http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/AUS-QLD-SE-Germans.html Quoting the entire text of a previous message in a reply is poor netiquette. Please don't do it. A List for the research for the descendants of the Germans who migrated to South East Queensland, Australia. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-QLD-SE-GERMANS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2945 - Release Date: 06/17/10 18:35:00