Hi Researchers Can I request some assistance please? 1.2.7 Mary Doyle - There is a Death Certificate stateing that Mary DOYLE, daughter of Patrick DOYLE and Elizabeth MADDEN, died in Brisbane on 14 January 1920. "1920 B31155 Mary Doyle Patrick Doyle Elizabeth Madden ** late Ryan" However, there is a record of her marrying Cletus George Holland: - in Randwick, NSW, where her mother had lived 16772/1921 HOLLAND CLETUS G DOYLE MARY In 1969, Mary died in Canberra whilst visiting her daughter. She was returned to Brisbane and is buried with her husband in the Nudgee cemetery on 28 January 1969. As this death occurred in Canberra, I do not have access to the BDM for that area. Is there anyway that someone on the list could check the parents of Mary HOLLAND buried at the Nudgee cemetery? Mary Doyle, then Holland, is she the daughter of Elizabeth Madden-Ryan-Doyle? The information was supplied that she was our Mary, but why was there a death of Mary in 1920 that matches our Mary. (our Mary Doyle was born on 29 December 1888 in Qld to Elizabeth Madden & Patrick Doyle - Elizabeth was the widow of Francis Ryan) Thanks Lorrae J Forest Lake Q 4078 <http://www.lorrae.net/> http://www.lorrae.net/ __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 10087 (20140712) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com

Hi Lorrae, Yes there is an online index.  20006229HOLLANDMARY26/01/1969 no parents listed. http://www.ors.act.gov.au/resources/attachments/Historic_Death_Index3.pdf Cheers, Charmaine From: "Lorrae J" <lorrae@uqconnect.net>  Subject: Re: [AUS-QLD] 1.2.7 Mary Doyle  Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2014 20:27:23 +1000  In-Reply-To: <20140713041532.SUDC17495.nskntmtas04p.mx.bigpond.com@nskntcmgw06p> Thanks Jan That Mary RYAN died the following year - born 18 Feb 1875, died 5 Nov 1876 - she was born 4 months after her father died. Thus when her mother had the next child, she was named Mary also. No second names... so confusing. Does Canberra have their BDM on line yet, please? I checked trove for any notices and could not locate any yet. Thanks everyone for your replies - very much appreciated. Lorrae J Forest Lake Q 4078 http://www.lorrae.net/

Anyone interested in the name WOHLSEN Please contact Irene Schaffer Email: irene.schaffer@bigpond.com http://www.tasfamily.net.au/~schafferi

Hi Shirlee 1976 B72773 Leonard Edward Copping John Copping Priscilla May Carter Leonard Edward COPPING died in Brisbane - his death was registered in Brisbane. Lorrae J Forest Lake Q 4078 http://www.lorrae.net/ _____ From: Shirlee Cantwell [mailto:tcantwell@xtra.co.nz] Sent: Thursday, 3 July 2014 8:34 AM To: AUS-QLD@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-QLD] Elsa WALLER and Leonard COPPING I am trying to find some information on Elsa WALLER and her husband Leonard COPPING. Elsa WALLER born 1909/10 in Australia returned to Australia early 1960's to Queensland with her English born husband Leonard COPPING. In 1963 Australian Electoral Rolls he was recorded as a school teacher in the Tallebudgera district 16 kms inland from Surfers Paradise on the Gold Coast. Leonard died in 1976 and Elsa in 1988. That is all I have been able to find out. I think Elsa WALLER is Elsa Grace Templeton WALLER, the only daughter of Edith Mary Isabel JOHNSON and George Charles Vaughan WALLER, who travelled to England in 1925. George WALLER returned sometime before 1943 and died in 1946 and is buried at Springvale Cemetery in Victoria. Although 18 years younger than her husband I think Edith may have predeceased him in the UK. Any information gratefully appreciated. Shirlee Wellington, NZ __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 10038 (20140703) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com

Thanks Stan. It is all the same person but where the Cameron came from I do not know. On searching Trove I found an item in The Australasian of 23 May 1925 that says "Mr and Mrs G Cameron-Waller and Miss Elsa Cameron-Waller have arrived in London from Victoria." On perusing the Victorian shipping records they are only recorded as Waller and Elsa has been recorded as Grace. The Australasian newspaper had a column titled "Australians Abroad' and I found the Cameron-Wallers named in the column about 4 times mostly advising where Mrs Cameron-Waller and Elsa Cameron-Waller were staying at the time. I think someone in the family decided that Cameron-Waller sounded better than just plain Waller. When you search Ancestry there are only 16 in the E/Rolls and 1 in the marriages and they are all belong to the same family. It seems that Mr and Mrs Cameron-Waller parted company as it only mentions the mother and daughter. George could have returned to Australia prior to WW2 as there were no E/Rolls b/w 1937 and 1942/3 in Victoria and NSW. Shirlee Wellington, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeannette Chiverton" <chivje@bigpond.com> To: <aus-qld@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 4:33 PM Subject: Re: [AUS-QLD] Elsa WALLER and Leonard COPPING > Hello Shirlee > > A possible UK Marriage > Marriages Sep 1944 > WALLER Elsa G T C Copping Islington 1b 414 > WALLER-CAMERON Elsa Copping Islington 1b 414 > CAMERON Elsa W Copping Islington 1b 414 > CAMERON-WALLER Elsa G T Copping Islington 1b 414 > COPPING Leonard E Cameron-waller Islington 1b 414 > > There appears to be a choice of names. > Regards > Stan Chiverton > > On 3/07/2014 8:34 AM, Shirlee Cantwell wrote: >> I am trying to find some information on Elsa WALLER and her husband >> Leonard COPPING. Elsa WALLER born 1909/10 in Australia returned to >> Australia early 1960's to Queensland with her English born husband >> Leonard COPPING. In 1963 Australian Electoral Rolls he was recorded as a >> school teacher in the Tallebudgera district 16 kms inland from Surfers >> Paradise on the Gold Coast. Leonard died in 1976 and Elsa in 1988. That >> is all I have been able to find out. >> >> I think Elsa WALLER is Elsa Grace Templeton WALLER, the only daughter of >> Edith Mary Isabel JOHNSON and George Charles Vaughan WALLER, who >> travelled to England in 1925. George WALLER returned sometime before 1943 >> and died in 1946 and is buried at Springvale Cemetery in Victoria. >> Although 18 years younger than her husband I think Edith may have >> predeceased him in the UK. >> >> Any information gratefully appreciated. >> >> Shirlee >> Wellington, NZ >> >> Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any >> reply...... Thank you! >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> AUS-QLD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... Thank you! > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-QLD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Shirlee A possible UK Marriage Marriages Sep 1944 WALLER Elsa G T C Copping Islington 1b 414 WALLER-CAMERON Elsa Copping Islington 1b 414 CAMERON Elsa W Copping Islington 1b 414 CAMERON-WALLER Elsa G T Copping Islington 1b 414 COPPING Leonard E Cameron-waller Islington 1b 414 There appears to be a choice of names. Regards Stan Chiverton On 3/07/2014 8:34 AM, Shirlee Cantwell wrote: > I am trying to find some information on Elsa WALLER and her husband Leonard COPPING. Elsa WALLER born 1909/10 in Australia returned to Australia early 1960's to Queensland with her English born husband Leonard COPPING. In 1963 Australian Electoral Rolls he was recorded as a school teacher in the Tallebudgera district 16 kms inland from Surfers Paradise on the Gold Coast. Leonard died in 1976 and Elsa in 1988. That is all I have been able to find out. > > I think Elsa WALLER is Elsa Grace Templeton WALLER, the only daughter of Edith Mary Isabel JOHNSON and George Charles Vaughan WALLER, who travelled to England in 1925. George WALLER returned sometime before 1943 and died in 1946 and is buried at Springvale Cemetery in Victoria. Although 18 years younger than her husband I think Edith may have predeceased him in the UK. > > Any information gratefully appreciated. > > Shirlee > Wellington, NZ > > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-QLD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I am trying to find some information on Elsa WALLER and her husband Leonard COPPING. Elsa WALLER born 1909/10 in Australia returned to Australia early 1960's to Queensland with her English born husband Leonard COPPING. In 1963 Australian Electoral Rolls he was recorded as a school teacher in the Tallebudgera district 16 kms inland from Surfers Paradise on the Gold Coast. Leonard died in 1976 and Elsa in 1988. That is all I have been able to find out. I think Elsa WALLER is Elsa Grace Templeton WALLER, the only daughter of Edith Mary Isabel JOHNSON and George Charles Vaughan WALLER, who travelled to England in 1925. George WALLER returned sometime before 1943 and died in 1946 and is buried at Springvale Cemetery in Victoria. Although 18 years younger than her husband I think Edith may have predeceased him in the UK. Any information gratefully appreciated. Shirlee Wellington, NZ

My uncle died in a horrific train accident in Queensland in 1946. At the time of his death he was living with a Helen Joyce Jamieson who was born on 16 Jul 1913. The couple had a son who (according to the death certificate ) was 2months old at the date of CP Tillers death. I am given to understand Helen Joyce Jamieson (nee Kratzmann) subsequently married an Ernest James Woods . Woods apparently adopted Peter George Tiller who then became Peter George Woods. EJ Woods apparently died in 1957 . Later on Helen Joyce married a ? Greer and eventually she died and was buried as Joyce Helen Greer in Innisfail cemetery on 17 Nov 1978. I also discovered that someone in Qld (Lyn Scott) made a web page for a Peter Woods - and on that website were photos of CP Tiller that were obtained probably from the war memorial or government records as I have the same pictures it appears that Peter Woods who would now be 68 is alive and well. He would be my first cousin as his father and my mother were brother and sister. I have no idea whether Peter Woods is at all interested in knowing about his relatives or ancestors and don't want to create any problems. I do have extensive records of CP Tillers ancestors and relatives and would willingly make them available if wanted and when requested. I would like to be able to accurately record the marriages and relationships of Helen Joyce or Joyce Helen (Kratzmann/Jamieson/Woods/Greer) . I have been searching for information for very many years and it would be nice to close a cold case so to speak. Can anyone help me with the details to close the case.? Ken

Afternoon June, Hope I've got the right lady who has a microfiche reader of extra BDM records. If so, I'm searching for parents of :- WATSON, Charles Arthur b. 28 Dec 1916 just to be greedy are there any other's born to the same parents til 1919 pretty please.  Warm Regards, Charmaine On Wednesday, 11 June 2014 11:45 AM, June Robinson <june.robinson2@bigpond.com> wrote: Thanks Charmaine all new to me, June ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charmaine Researcher" <charmaine_researcher@yahoo.com.au> To: <aus-qld@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 9:06 AM Subject: [AUS-QLD] Resources Hi List, Many probably know about these resouces but for those that don't (like me) - here are the links. Anglican Records & Archives Centre - http://www.anglicanarchives.org.au/collection http://library.bundaberg.qld.gov.au/node/1397 - you can view the actually book/page ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-QLD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Val Not sure what you are looking for: Possible birth in NSW: 10386/1909 BAKER KATHLEEN M RICHARD MABEL WOOLLAHRA Possible marriage in NSW: 17131/1934 SAVAGE JOHN A F BAKER KATHLEEN M PETERSHAM Perhaps this is appropriate: trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16936657 The Sydney Morning Herald (NSW) - Friday 9 December 1932 SAVAGE v SAVAGE. Veronica May Savage (formerly Clarke) v John Arthur Savage. Issue, adultery with one Kathleen May Baker. Marriage, April, 1925, at Sydney, Roman Catholic rites. De-cree nisi. Mr. H. J. Studdert (instructed by Mr. Jack Tnom) for petitioner. Is this her burial: Cemetery: <http://austcemindex.com/cemetery.php?id=1728> Macquarie Park NSW Portion: RC Lwn Row: Block 16 Plot: 0474 Looks like she was widowed in 1958 in NSW 24713/1958 SAVAGE JOHN ARTHUR FRANCIS FREDERICK JOSEPH LYDIA ANN GRIFFITH Lorrae J Forest Lake Q 4078 http://www.lorrae.net/ _____ From: Val Date [mailto:val.date@sctelco.net.au] Sent: Saturday, 14 June 2014 9:34 AM To: aus-qld@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-QLD] SAVAGE I'm searching for information regarding Kathleen May SAVAGE nee BAKER, who lived at Tugun in 1980. She was born in 1909. Hoping someone can assist me. Regards, Val DATE __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 9946 (20140614) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 9946 (20140614) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com Ask A Librarian may be a possibility. In passing, I note there are some Ruthenberg photos on Trove <http://trove.nla.gov.au/picture/result?q=+Ruthenberg> http://trove.nla.gov.au/picture/result?q=+Ruthenberg Kerry -----Original Message----- From: aus-qld-bounces@rootsweb.com [ <mailto:aus-qld-bounces@rootsweb.com> mailto:aus-qld-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lorrae J Sent: Friday, 13 June 2014 11:24 PM To: 'aus-qld'; aus-qld-se-germans@rootsweb.com Cc: 'Laurel Hellyer' Subject: [AUS-QLD] FW: ruthenberg family book Evening all Can any-one help Laurel please? The Ruthenberg book was a set of books produced back in 1994 - a very nice set at that. Does anyone know if it is still available, and who from, please? Lorrae J Forest Lake Q 4078 <http://www.lorrae.net/> http://www.lorrae.net/ _____ From: Laurel Hellyer [mailto:] Sent: Wednesday, 28 May 2014 3:51 PM To: lorrae@uqconnect.net Subject: ruthenberg family book Hi Lorrae, A number of years ago you mentioned on a message board that their was a book you obtained from Fred Kleidon, Brasssall about the Ruthenberg family. Their is no longer a listing for a Fred Kleidon in Brassall and according to the ryerson index a KLEIDON Frederick William (Fred) of Brassall, had a funeral notice in the Courier Mail on the 04DEC2007. Do you have any further contacts with the family that you would be willing to pass on, so I may attempt to obtain a copy of this book for my own genealogical research. Cheers, Laurel __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 9940 (20140613) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. <http://www.eset.com> http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 9940 (20140613) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. <http://www.eset.com> http://www.eset.com Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-QLD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 9946 (20140614) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 9946 (20140614) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com

Have noticed the postings about the Ruthenberg books. I have the four books here if I can help with any information. I am a Ruthenberg descendant by adoption. My mum was a Matthews, her mother a Ruthenberg. bye for now Brenda Bayliss Miriam Vale.

Val.... There is a Kathleen Savage buried at Macquarie Park, NSW, 27 Oct,1995. R,C. Lawn Cem. Block 16, Plot 0474. Hope this is your gal. Val.Stewart. ****************************************************************************************************************** > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-QLD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

I'm searching for information regarding Kathleen May SAVAGE nee BAKER, who lived at Tugun in 1980. She was born in 1909. Hoping someone can assist me. Regards, Val DATE

The only book that sounds like this is this 1986 book by a slightly different set of Kleidons: http://trove.nla.gov.au/version/21482812 If so, it is available in a number of libraries, including SLQ so Ask A Librarian may be a possibility. In passing, I note there are some Ruthenberg photos on Trove http://trove.nla.gov.au/picture/result?q=+Ruthenberg Kerry -----Original Message----- From: aus-qld-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-qld-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lorrae J Sent: Friday, 13 June 2014 11:24 PM To: 'aus-qld'; aus-qld-se-germans@rootsweb.com Cc: 'Laurel Hellyer' Subject: [AUS-QLD] FW: ruthenberg family book Evening all Can any-one help Laurel please? The Ruthenberg book was a set of books produced back in 1986 - a very nice set at that. Does anyone know if it is still available, and who from, please? Lorrae J Forest Lake Q 4078 http://www.lorrae.net/ _____ From: Laurel Hellyer [mailto:] Sent: Wednesday, 28 May 2014 3:51 PM To: lorrae@uqconnect.net Subject: ruthenberg family book Hi Lorrae, A number of years ago you mentioned on a message board that their was a book you obtained from Fred Kleidon, Brasssall about the Ruthenberg family. Their is no longer a listing for a Fred Kleidon in Brassall and according to the ryerson index a KLEIDON Frederick William (Fred) of Brassall, had a funeral notice in the Courier Mail on the 04DEC2007. Do you have any further contacts with the family that you would be willing to pass on, so I may attempt to obtain a copy of this book for my own genealogical research. Cheers, Laurel __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 9940 (20140613) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 9940 (20140613) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-QLD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Evening all Can any-one help Laurel please? The Ruthenberg book was a set of books produced back in 1986 - a very nice set at that. Does anyone know if it is still available, and who from, please? Lorrae J Forest Lake Q 4078 http://www.lorrae.net/ _____ From: Laurel Hellyer [mailto:] Sent: Wednesday, 28 May 2014 3:51 PM To: lorrae@uqconnect.net Subject: ruthenberg family book Hi Lorrae, A number of years ago you mentioned on a message board that their was a book you obtained from Fred Kleidon, Brasssall about the Ruthenberg family. Their is no longer a listing for a Fred Kleidon in Brassall and according to the ryerson index a KLEIDON Frederick William (Fred) of Brassall, had a funeral notice in the Courier Mail on the 04DEC2007. Do you have any further contacts with the family that you would be willing to pass on, so I may attempt to obtain a copy of this book for my own genealogical research. Cheers, Laurel __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 9940 (20140613) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 9940 (20140613) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com

HI Greg, I have investigated the Toowong Cemetery burial registers regarding George Sim. The records indicate that the grandchild of Ann Atherton was buried first in the grave. Harry GADD then George SIM then finally Ann Atherton. All three were buried by the same Undertaker - W Barrett - which later became Sillett and Barrett which later again became Alex Gow - still in business today! They were buried in an " Unselected " plot.. which means that the decision on where they were buried was decided by the cemetery trustees and was not a choice made by the family (basically you paid your money - usually a little cheaper than a selected plot and the grave was arranged by the sexton) . This is not a paupers grave or a hospital grave. It is officially recorded as owned by the GADD Family- because he was the first burial.. his family is the grave rights holder. Unfortunately due to the age of the records very little biographical information was recorded. Other than the name and age of the deceased (usually just Adult or Child) the size of the coffin (which can indicate the height and approximate weight of the deceased) and who the undertaker was. There were no additional notations made in the "comments" section of the register as is usually the case in cases of communicable diseases and the like. The Queenslander Newspaper of the 22nd of September 1894 Pg 537 contains Ann Atherton's Death Notice DEATHS. ATHERTON.—On the 14th September, at Greenheys, Toowong, in her 91st year, Anne, relict of the late James Atherton, of Toowoomba, mother of Mrs. G. W. Griffiths, Toowoomba, and Mrs. J. W. Gadd, of this city. Friends please accept this intimation. Another article tells of the family "An Ancient Couple." *The Richmond River Herald and Northern Districts Advertiser *28 Nov 1890 pg 6 An Ancient Couple. A remarkable event took place: at Toowoomba on Saturday (says the Brisbane Courier). A line old couple, Mr. James Atherton and his good wife Ann, celebrated their sixtieth wedding day (diamond wedding) at the residence of their son-in-law, Mr. G. W. Griffiths. Mr. Atherton was born near Wigan in July, 1804 They came to Queensland in June, 1874, when seventy years or age, and settled down at Toowoomba. Their memory is as good now as ever. They well remember the celebration of the jubilee of George HI., also the peace rejoicings after Waterloo, and various events during the reigns of George IV., William IV., and our present Queen Victoria. The old lady is still very active about the house, as her husband is about the garden and attending to his poultry. He still retains all his teeth, never had toothache, and has been a great smoker from a young man. The Death of James Atherton in Toowoomba "Family Notices." *The Brisbane Courier *8 Sep 1892 Pg 4. DEATH ATHERTON - On the 26th August, at Toowoomba, James Atherton, late of Manchester, in his 89th year. The death of George Sim is also recorded in the Brisbane Courier. The only clue given by the funeral notice is that they both appear to be from Manchester. So perhaps this is simply the reason - Perhaps after James died, George Sim having met the family in the Second Class cabin of the St James on the voyage out. George Sim was roughly the same age as the Gadd family parents. Perhaps they became friends. George who was living at Kangaroo Point at the time of his death likely looked in on Ann who was at Toowong. I am not sure where the GADD family were living. As George Sim came out on his own it would be likely that he would seek out company on the voyage out it was some 120 days at sea! Maybe the two families knew each other from home? I would think a search of the census data for UK might provide more information... were they neighbours or something? The thing that is puzzling me.. is Ann's Death registration says her maiden name was PARK. yet the story on the Ancient couple says James Atherton was from Wigan, The only James Atherton and Ann from Wigan - Says her maiden name was KNOWLES! But then the Atherton - Knowles marriage wasn't until 1842 - which would make them only 48 years married in 1890! Where as the Atherton - Park marriage.. is exactly 60 years!! I wonder if the newspaper reporter actually spoke to the family before writing the article? Perhaps the memory of the "ancient'' couple was not as good as is claimed in the article! I am sorry that the cemetery records could not provide you with more clues. I wish you the best of luck with your search. Please get in touch again if I can be of any further assistance. Kind Regards Sue Olsen Friends of Toowong Cemetery Association Secretary On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Greg <gdav9@gdavis.id.au> wrote: > I have a George SIM who was born 23 Feb 1843 (from headstone) and died > 14 Mar 1882 at Kangaroo Point and is buried at Toowong. > On 14 Sep 1894 Ann ATHERTON (nee PARK) died and was buried in the same > plot at Toowong. > Harold GADD, the one year old grandson of Ann ATHERTON died 28 Mar 1879 > and is also buried in the same plot > James and Ann ATHERTON, their daughter Agnes and her husband Joshua GADD > and their three children and George SIM all arrived on St. James 24 Jul > 1874 > I would like to find the names of the parents of George SIM. > > >

A few years ago there were postings on this mailing list about the sailing ship ZOROASTER (not to be confused with the worlds first tanker with the same name) Did anyone find any pictures or other information about this sailing ship as it also served the 1820 settler emmigration to South Africa in addition to Australian migrations and is therefore of interest to a large audience.   Matthew Wicks

Thanks Charmaine all new to me, June ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charmaine Researcher" <charmaine_researcher@yahoo.com.au> To: <aus-qld@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 9:06 AM Subject: [AUS-QLD] Resources Hi List, Many probably know about these resouces but for those that don't (like me) - here are the links. Anglican Records & Archives Centre - http://www.anglicanarchives.org.au/collection http://library.bundaberg.qld.gov.au/node/1397 - you can view the actually book/page ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-QLD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Greg, I am the secretary of the Friends of Toowong Cemetery. I will take a look into the burial of George Sim on Thursday when I am at the cemetery. I will see if I can help solve the mystery... As these burials are in the first few years of the cemetery the records are not as extensive as the later records in which the deceased address, occupation and other biographical details are recorded. However it will say who the funeral director was and who purchased the grave (if it was purchased at all ) In the case of Paupers.. or persons who died in hospital they were often buried by the state. The plot can then be converted from a public grave to a purchased plot after the decease of another person often related to the first burial but sometimes not. I will get back to you later in the week... hopefully with answers to all of these questions. Kind Regards Sue Olsen Friends of Toowong Cemetery Association Secretary. On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Greg <gdav9@gdavis.id.au> wrote: > I have a George SIM who was born 23 Feb 1843 (from headstone) and died > 14 Mar 1882 at Kangaroo Point and is buried at Toowong. > On 14 Sep 1894 Ann ATHERTON (nee PARK) died and was buried in the same > plot at Toowong. > Harold GADD, the one year old grandson of Ann ATHERTON died 28 Mar 1879 > and is also buried in the same plot > James and Ann ATHERTON, their daughter Agnes and her husband Joshua GADD > and their three children and George SIM all arrived on St. James 24 Jul > 1874 > I would like to find the names of the parents of George SIM. There is a > George SIM on ancestry whose mother is Fanny PARK but he married and > went to Pennsylvania. > I don't seem to be able to find any connection between George SIM and > the ATHERTON family other than that they were on the same ship to > Queensland. > Did the ATHERTON family (who are related by marriage to the GRIFFITHS > family of "Southern Cross Windmill" fame and fortune) buy the plot at > Toowong for George SIM and then had some of their own family buried there ? > Any information about George SIM would be appreciated, > Greg > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... Thank you! > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-QLD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Someone paid for the grave for George Sim; that person then holds the burial rights and can decide who else can be buried there. There isn't a requirement for the 2nd burial to be related to the first one, although usually they are related. But nonetheless friends, colleagues and neighbours did "pass the hat around" to pay for the burial of someone who would otherwise get a pauper's grave, so the burial rights might be held by a wide variety of people. Note the burial rights holder can also be buried there, so it may be that Ann was the burial rights holder herself. And of course there is always the possibility that George and Ann were "related" but not in the eyes of the law; that is, they were in a de facto relationship of some kind. What became of James Atherton? Where is he buried? If he died before Ann, it would beg the question of why she is not buried with him. If he died after Ann, why did he bury his wife with George? Could he not afford a separate grave? Did he regard George as "one of the family"? People who travelled on crowded immigrant ships for months would naturally get to know one another. Very possibly on arriving in a strange land, particularly if they did not know anyone already here, they would tend to stick together and support one another. In the absence of extended family, many immigrants might well have been closely bonded to new friends. Probably this is what has happened in the case of George and Ann. In terms of trying to find whatever the connection might have been? Can you find funeral directors records or burial records or funeral notices that might indicate who arranged their funeral? That might help to identify the burial rights holder who is the common link. Can you find any addresses where George and Ann lives to see if they might have been neighbours or friends? Simply the more you can learn about the lives of George and Ann (and their families), the more likely you are to find some common element. Finally I note that on the BCC Grave Location Search it says Graves where the last burial occurred more than 30 years ago may be available for reuse by direct descendants and immediate family. Please contact 3407 8128 for more details. Why not phone them and ask who holds the burial rights? It might provide a quick answer to the mystery. Kerry -----Original Message----- From: aus-qld-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-qld-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Greg Sent: Monday, 9 June 2014 3:59 PM To: aus-qld@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-QLD] George SIM I have a George SIM who was born 23 Feb 1843 (from headstone) and died 14 Mar 1882 at Kangaroo Point and is buried at Toowong. On 14 Sep 1894 Ann ATHERTON (nee PARK) died and was buried in the same plot at Toowong. Harold GADD, the one year old grandson of Ann ATHERTON died 28 Mar 1879 and is also buried in the same plot James and Ann ATHERTON, their daughter Agnes and her husband Joshua GADD and their three children and George SIM all arrived on St. James 24 Jul 1874 I would like to find the names of the parents of George SIM. There is a George SIM on ancestry whose mother is Fanny PARK but he married and went to Pennsylvania. I don't seem to be able to find any connection between George SIM and the ATHERTON family other than that they were on the same ship to Queensland. Did the ATHERTON family (who are related by marriage to the GRIFFITHS family of "Southern Cross Windmill" fame and fortune) buy the plot at Toowong for George SIM and then had some of their own family buried there ? Any information about George SIM would be appreciated, Greg Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-QLD-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message