Hello John, Yes there were brickworks for a long time, in south Sydney, and one of the descendents of my Marjoram convicts worked there. I think those brickworks were still around in my childhood - they were just south of Newtown from memory. I think there would have been the odd footpaths made of bricks, but probably stone pavers were cheaper to use that manufactured bricks, before the surfaces we know now were invented. Unless they are in a reasonable amount of sunlight each day, brick paving gets very slippery in a short time, so it would not be safe for public paving where there were no gutters and drains. Liz Lake M. John wrote: > PS: > > When I tried looking into this myself (made just one trip to Sydney > archives but was unable to continue) I came upon what I think is a little > known fact .. that the "City" itself .. council or City commissioners (not > the State/Colonial government) ... also once had its own brickworks. This > was no doubt somewhere a bit futher out, towards Newtown/Camperdown, and > wasn't the Brickfields Hill (which by that time had probably been built > over?). > > This works was later disposed of, but when operating it apparently made > curved bricks .. of the type that the Tank Stream was eventually enclosed > by and put underground. > > I couldn't find any more on this other than that it was decided at some > point to sell it off, nor precisely where this brickmaking for the town or > city public works usage went on. Not sure if they ever used bricks for > public footpaths or for any other Council-controlled purpose apart from > drainage works. > > Gave up on that too, and flittered butterfly-like on to other more > succulent or more readily opening blooms. > > I'll keep this short as I realise convicts are not bricks and it is off > topic for anyone who is not mad keen on bricks. > > > Cheers, > > > > > > John > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > Thanks Grahame, > > > The book is new but I think the statement that Brickfield Hill is George > Street between Town Hall and the bottom of the slope is old hat. > > I look forward to someone solving this little seeming enigma definitively, > although perhaps this is not possible and some history gets lost forever. > > Cheers, > > > > John > > > > > > > At 04:41 PM 25/02/2009 +1100, you wrote: > > >> Yes thanks John. I was part of that debate, and hence why I made the >> post drawing attention to this new book. >> >> cheers >> >> Grahame >> >> On 25/02/2009, at 4:27 PM, John wrote: >> >> >>> Hi Grahame, >>> >>> >>> This has been a topic of much former discussion on this list, as to >>> the >>> (original) location of the Brickfield Hill, which is a very much >>> mentioned >>> place in Sydney or Port Jackson history. >>> >>> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > >

Found on google My understanding of the origins of "Brickfielder" is that the southerly change generated clouds of dust from the brick pits at Brickfield Hill in the 1800's. This information is I think contained in Hunt's 1894 paper. Brickfield Hill was near the corner of Goulburn and Pitt Sts in Sydney ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth Walker To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [PJ] PS re Brickfield Hill Hello John, Yes there were brickworks for a long time, in south Sydney, and one of the descendents of my Marjoram convicts worked there. I think those brickworks were still around in my childhood - they were just south of Newtown from memory. I think there would have been the odd footpaths made of bricks, but probably stone pavers were cheaper to use that manufactured bricks, before the surfaces we know now were invented. Unless they are in a reasonable amount of sunlight each day, brick paving gets very slippery in a short time, so it would not be safe for public paving where there were no gutters and drains. Liz Lake M. John wrote: > PS: > > When I tried looking into this myself (made just one trip to Sydney > archives but was unable to continue) I came upon what I think is a little > known fact .. that the "City" itself .. council or City commissioners (not > the State/Colonial government) ... also once had its own brickworks. This > was no doubt somewhere a bit futher out, towards Newtown/Camperdown, and > wasn't the Brickfields Hill (which by that time had probably been built > over?). > > This works was later disposed of, but when operating it apparently made > curved bricks .. of the type that the Tank Stream was eventually enclosed > by and put underground. > > I couldn't find any more on this other than that it was decided at some > point to sell it off, nor precisely where this brickmaking for the town or > city public works usage went on. Not sure if they ever used bricks for > public footpaths or for any other Council-controlled purpose apart from > drainage works. > > Gave up on that too, and flittered butterfly-like on to other more > succulent or more readily opening blooms. > > I'll keep this short as I realise convicts are not bricks and it is off > topic for anyone who is not mad keen on bricks. > > > Cheers, > > > > > > John > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > Thanks Grahame, > > > The book is new but I think the statement that Brickfield Hill is George > Street between Town Hall and the bottom of the slope is old hat. > > I look forward to someone solving this little seeming enigma definitively, > although perhaps this is not possible and some history gets lost forever. > > Cheers, > > > > John > > > > > > > At 04:41 PM 25/02/2009 +1100, you wrote: > > >> Yes thanks John. I was part of that debate, and hence why I made the >> post drawing attention to this new book. >> >> cheers >> >> Grahame >> >> On 25/02/2009, at 4:27 PM, John wrote: >> >> >>> Hi Grahame, >>> >>> >>> This has been a topic of much former discussion on this list, as to >>> the >>> (original) location of the Brickfield Hill, which is a very much >>> mentioned >>> place in Sydney or Port Jackson history. >>> >>> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386) Database version: 5.11830 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1970 - Release Date: 02/24/09 13:35:00 E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386) Database version: 5.11830 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386) Database version: 5.11830 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/

Hi Grahame & John & Liz Just to follow up on the Brickfield Hill location and butt into your discussion: Book: 'Early Sydney (1984) by Tess van Sommers states: "One of the early convicts who was a skilled craftsman was James BLOODWORTH, brickmaker. He earned his pardon by helping to establish the first brickworks at Brickfield Hill. By the end of 1789, there were three kilns going, turning out 30,000 bricks and tiles a month. The early brickmakers had to knead the clay with their feet.' And it goes on. Also, I have been corresponding with Susan on this PJ List about a book in my possession titled "The Story of Old George Street" by Charles H. Bertie (1920). On Page 35 there is an illustration (full page) of 'GEORGE STREET ON BRICKFIELD HILL IN AUGUST, 1796' captioned: Convicts are seen bringing in timber on a waggon drawn by bullocks. Three years previously these waggons and those for carrying bricks and tiles from the brickfields in the vicinity of Campbell Street were drawn by teams of convicts. On Page 33: the text states: 'A little further south, about the intersection of Bathurst street, we have the site of the picture "Brickfield Hill in 1796" reproduced on page 35. This was taken from Collin's account of New South Wales, published in 1798. The cart, it will be observed, is drawn by bullocks. If Captain Collins' artist had drawn his picture about three years earlier (in 1793), the bullocks sould have been replaced by men. Writing in December of that year, of the bricks made lower down the hill, Collins says: - "To convey these materials from the brickfield to the barrack ground, a distance of about three-quarters of a mile, three brick carts were employed, each drawn by 12 men, under the direction of one overseer. Seven hundred tiles, or 350 bricks, were brought by each cart, and every cart, in the day, brought either five loads of bricks or four of tiles." To bring in the timber, four timber carriages were employed, each being drawn by 24 men. For a number of years in early Sydney the use of bullocks, in place of horses, was universal. They were used in shafts like horses, in teams with traces, and even for riding purposes. The road down BRICKFIELD HILL became populated within a year or two of the foundation of the Colony. In 1790 a road to the brick kiln was made, and Collins, in December 1793, says that 150 huts had been added since the departure of Governor Phillip, and that "the huts extended nearly to the brickfields whence others were building to meet them, and thus unite that district with the town." These brickfields were situated in the vicinity bounded roughly by George, Campbell, Elizabeth and Goulburn streets. On the corner of Goulburn street we have the large stores of Messrs. Anthony Hordern and Sons. The original Anthony Hordern arrived in Sydney in the early 'twenties of last century, and opened a coachbuilding works in King Street, on the site of the "Truth" offices; while his wife conducted a haberdashery shop alongside. Their two sons, Anthony and Lebbius, opened a shop on BRICKFIELD HILL, the site of which is incorporated in the present building. The business was afterwards removed to the Haymarket where Mr. Sam Hordern, son of Anthony No. 2, built up the huge concern of today. On July 10, 1901, a devastating fire swept through the Haymarket premises, unfortunately attended with loss of life, which, in two hours, destroyed half a million pounds worth of goods. The present premises were thereafter built.' Hope some of the above is helpful. Cheers Jennie W.A.

Thanks Jennie, So entrenched did the idea become that Brickfields Hill had been the slope where Anthony Hordens finished up, a bit down from the Town Hall (old burial ground) in George Street, that there was even a later suggestion written by someone that the early painting published that seems to have been from a drawing done at Brickfield Hill, on the road to Parramatta, must have been 'reversed'. For that painting is easiest to understand if it were done on the southern side of the small creek valley through the early haymarkets. It takes some mental gymnastics to envisage it as being done where the final Anthony Hordens department store went up, whence the idea that it might have been reversed somehow in the printing process. I can discuss finer details more off list if interested. Best Regards, John ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ At 02:37 AM 26/02/2009 +0900, you wrote: >Hi Grahame & John & Liz >Just to follow up on the Brickfield Hill location and butt into your >discussion: > >Book: 'Early Sydney (1984) by Tess van Sommers states: "One of the early >convicts who was a skilled craftsman was James BLOODWORTH, brickmaker. He >earned his pardon by helping to establish the first brickworks at Brickfield >Hill. By the end of 1789, there were three kilns going, turning out 30,000 >bricks and tiles a month. The early brickmakers had to knead the clay with >their feet.' And it goes on. > >Also, I have been corresponding with Susan on this PJ List about a book in >my possession titled "The Story of Old George Street" by Charles H. Bertie >(1920). >On Page 35 there is an illustration (full page) of 'GEORGE STREET ON >BRICKFIELD HILL IN AUGUST, 1796' captioned: Convicts are seen bringing in >timber on a waggon drawn by bullocks. Three years previously these waggons >and those for carrying bricks and tiles from the brickfields in the vicinity >of Campbell Street were drawn by teams of convicts. > >On Page 33: the text states: 'A little further south, about the >intersection of Bathurst street, we have the site of the picture "Brickfield >Hill in 1796" reproduced on page 35. This was taken from Collin's account >of New South Wales, published in 1798. The cart, it will be observed, is >drawn by bullocks. If Captain Collins' artist had drawn his picture about >three years earlier (in 1793), the bullocks sould have been replaced by men. >Writing in December of that year, of the bricks made lower down the hill, >Collins says: - >"To convey these materials from the brickfield to the barrack ground, a >distance of about three-quarters of a mile, three brick carts were employed, >each drawn by 12 men, under the direction of one overseer. Seven hundred >tiles, or 350 bricks, were brought by each cart, and every cart, in the day, >brought either five loads of bricks or four of tiles." To bring in the >timber, four timber carriages were employed, each being drawn by 24 men. >For a number of years in early Sydney the use of bullocks, in place of >horses, was universal. They were used in shafts like horses, in teams with >traces, and even for riding purposes. The road down BRICKFIELD HILL became >populated within a year or two of the foundation of the Colony. In 1790 a >road to the brick kiln was made, and Collins, in December 1793, says that >150 huts had been added since the departure of Governor Phillip, and that >"the huts extended nearly to the brickfields whence others were building to >meet them, and thus unite that district with the town." These brickfields >were situated in the vicinity bounded roughly by George, Campbell, Elizabeth >and Goulburn streets. On the corner of Goulburn street we have the large >stores of Messrs. Anthony Hordern and Sons. The original Anthony Hordern >arrived in Sydney in the early 'twenties of last century, and opened a >coachbuilding works in King Street, on the site of the "Truth" offices; >while his wife conducted a haberdashery shop alongside. Their two sons, >Anthony and Lebbius, opened a shop on BRICKFIELD HILL, the site of which is >incorporated in the present building. The business was afterwards removed >to the Haymarket where Mr. Sam Hordern, son of Anthony No. 2, built up the >huge concern of today. On July 10, 1901, a devastating fire swept through >the Haymarket premises, unfortunately attended with loss of life, which, in >two hours, destroyed half a million pounds worth of goods. The present >premises were thereafter built.' > >Hope some of the above is helpful. >Cheers Jennie >W.A.