As one, among others, who has been subjected to "the experience" at the door to RC Archives, I doubt if the Government is the reason for Catholic Church records not being available to Jenny. As for "Fr Therry's papers", I examined the records of the marriages conducted by the various priests, incl Fr Therry, on Reel SAG 6 (St Mary's records) at Mitchell Library (and SAG itself). The witnesses and the 1829 date of my g.g.grandparents' 1830 marriage were suspect so I examined the Mitchell Library Reels of Fr Therrys papers. I am not sure if you have looked at these...extensive bits of loose paper, back of envelopes, etc, in very rough date order with Fr Therry's notations about BDM, church affairs, donations to the building fund, building accounts etc. There I found, in Fr Therry's hand a correct record of the marriage, date, location, occupation of the groom, and witnesses. (Reel CY806) Furthermore the 1835 marriage record of another forbear was shown in NSW BDM records as in "C of E Cabramatta". I found the correct record on one of Fr Therry's scraps of paper as having occurred in St Mary's, Sydney with dates , location, witnesses and a "promise" to pay a fee. The folder outlining the many Therry reels is on the shelf, knee height, at the far end of the Mitchell reading room. But ask at the desk if you can't see it. Frank M. > for -----Original Message----- > From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kath > Connors > Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 6:59 AM > To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PJ] Time Capsule Daniel CANVIN > > Elizabeth, have you ever read Father Therry history? on horse back etc in > all kinds of weather it is a wonder any of his records survived. > I worked voluntary at St Mary's 1968 & 1969 and we battled in those days > for > > voluntary workers., the government rules do not allow you access these > days. > Our convict ancestors Thomas Collison & Margaret Hughes were also given > permission in to marry in Sydney 1832 and no marriage records exist. > Kath > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Convict Trail" <convicttrail@bigpond.com> > To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> > Cc: <jennygirl@unwired.com.au> > Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 8:08 AM > Subject: Re: [PJ] Time Capsule Daniel CANVIN > > > > Hi Jenny, > > Re Daniel Calvin, this is not the first wedding preformed by Father > > Therry, > > that has not been found. My ancestor Elizabeth(Betsy)Sinnott was married > > to > > Richard Dwyer by Father Therry but again no evidence exists. I know this > > marriage happened as it was certified as having happened on a application > > to > > remove Elizabeth's daughter from the Orphan Asylum. The application for > > permission to marry together with two other exists but not the evidence > of > > the marriage. > > > > It would be interesting to how many of his marriages are missing from the > > records that were supplied later to the Register General. Was a book lost > > or > > were just a few not recorded or was a page or so lost from the book or > did > > the book get wet in the saddle bag and some pages become illegible? > > > > > I would like to ask my 3x great grandfather Daniel CANVIN to please put > > > down > > his anvil and come and sit down quietly under a tree on the Badgery's > > property at Majors Creek and tell me why: > > > > Although I have his permission to marry document dated 5 Aug 1826, I > can't > > find a marriage. I would tell him that I have been through all the > records > > BMD, LDS, Mutch Index, Fr Therry's Papers, I have tried to scale the wall > > and get into the inner sanctum at St Mary's Cathedral however Pauline > > tells > > me that I can't have access to their files. I would say that I have found > > reference to his marriage in a book by Kieran Sheedy and I have written > to > > Kieran Sheedy in Ireland asking for the source however I didn't get a > > reply. > > The book goes on to tell me that the marriage was performed by Fr Therry > > and > > that Mary Dwyer acted as one of the witnesses. Now that has had to come > > from > > somewhere. > > > >

Its a shame these records have not been extracted and given to Birth Deaths and Marriages, to add to their index. I wonder how many other church records are out there that did not go to BDM at the time. It would be wonderful if the Government and Churches could work together now and add missing records to the over all indexes, for these early days of Australia. Thanks for posting this find to the list Karen On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 5:55 PM, Frank Murray <fcmurr@gmail.com> wrote: > As one, among others,  who has been subjected to "the experience" at the > door to RC Archives, I doubt if the Government is the reason for Catholic > Church records not being available to Jenny. > > As for "Fr Therry's papers", I examined the records of the marriages > conducted by the various priests, incl Fr Therry,  on Reel SAG 6 (St Mary's > records) at Mitchell Library (and SAG itself). The witnesses and the 1829 > date of my g.g.grandparents' 1830 marriage were suspect so I examined the > Mitchell Library Reels of Fr Therrys papers. I am not sure if you have > looked at these...extensive bits of loose paper, back of envelopes, etc,  in > very rough date order with Fr Therry's notations about BDM, church affairs, > donations to the building fund, building accounts etc. There I found, in Fr > Therry's hand a correct record of the marriage, date, location, occupation > of the groom,  and witnesses. (Reel CY806) > > Furthermore the  1835 marriage record of another forbear was shown in NSW > BDM records as in "C of E Cabramatta". I found the correct record on one of > Fr Therry's scraps of paper as having occurred in St Mary's, Sydney with > dates , location, witnesses and a "promise" to pay a fee. > > The folder outlining the many Therry reels is on the shelf, knee height, at > the far end of the Mitchell reading room. But ask at the desk if you can't > see it. > Frank M.

Hi Karen You may already be aware of this but there are more records on the OLD microfiche than on the new microfiche, the CDs available and the BDMs available on line. Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Karen Hodges Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 6:47 PM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PJ] Time capsule ....Fr Therry's papers and RCArchives Its a shame these records have not been extracted and given to Birth Deaths and Marriages, to add to their index. I wonder how many other church records are out there that did not go to BDM at the time. It would be wonderful if the Government and Churches could work together now and add missing records to the over all indexes, for these early days of Australia. Thanks for posting this find to the list Karen

In my experience the catholic church have their records in various places - not just St Mary's, Sydney with the gate guardian from hell. I rang a church in Naranderra NSW and the old preist said "just a moment" and came back with a 105-year-old book of marriage records that were different to the NSW BDM info! Also I found a repository in Toowoomba (the Marion Centre archives) that had baptism info that cannot be found anywhere else. My advice - ring the church in the town where your ancestors were, you may be surprised. Russell Karen Hodges wrote: >Its a shame these records have not been extracted and given to Birth >Deaths and Marriages, to add to their index. > >I wonder how many other church records are out there that did not go >to BDM at the time. It would be wonderful if the Government and >Churches could work together now and add missing records to the over >all indexes, for these early days of Australia. > >Thanks for posting this find to the list > >Karen > >

Hi Russell, Not at Bombala in the Monaro District. We tried to find the grave of Sam Whittaker, my husband's convict, in the Bombala cemetery without success, no headstone. We approached the council, who were very helpful. The person we were directed to searched the records and found Sam's death and grave area,, but he said to us that in their efforts to transcribe records from the local churches , the Catholic Church was the only one refusing to allow access to their records. It obviously varies from place to place. Regards Kay On 10/03/2009, at 6:33 PM, Russell wrote: > In my experience the catholic church have their records in various > places - not just St Mary's, Sydney with the gate guardian from hell. > I rang a church in Naranderra NSW and the old preist said "just a > moment" and came back with a 105-year-old book of marriage records > that > were different to the NSW BDM info! > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT- > JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message