Perhaps 1832 was a mis-reading of 1833. I have seen MANGLES arriving in NSW 19.4.1833 on a list of "events" on a history website. Sorry, can't remember which website. Good luck with it! Pam Harvey

Macquarie Uni has a site about trials. Regards Betty Candy -----Original Message----- From: collins.g@bigpond.com Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2013 12:37 PM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: [PJ] Samuel Collins Hi again Sorry to again seek the assistance of this forum but after going around in circles for almost 2 years with this same ancestor, I am afraid that I appear to have run out of answers. I have pursued numerous possible paths to find out the history of my great great grandfather and they have all pointed to him being a convict although all of the documented ones have proven fruitless. As another lead has just emerged, I would like to know if there are any sources to confirm information I have is that a Samuel Collins is on the Goal Description and Entrance Books for 1874 for Darlinghurst which notes his age as 58, his arrival on the “Mangles”in 1832 (?) and his religion as a Jew. I cannot find any voyage for the Mangles in that year nor can I find out any release or possible trial / crime he may have committed – are there other areas I should be looking at?. Regards Geoff Collins ---------------------- To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi again Sorry to again seek the assistance of this forum but after going around in circles for almost 2 years with this same ancestor, I am afraid that I appear to have run out of answers. I have pursued numerous possible paths to find out the history of my great great grandfather and they have all pointed to him being a convict although all of the documented ones have proven fruitless. As another lead has just emerged, I would like to know if there are any sources to confirm information I have is that a Samuel Collins is on the Goal Description and Entrance Books for 1874 for Darlinghurst which notes his age as 58, his arrival on the “Mangles”in 1832 (?) and his religion as a Jew. I cannot find any voyage for the Mangles in that year nor can I find out any release or possible trial / crime he may have committed – are there other areas I should be looking at?. Regards Geoff Collins

Lesley there were 5 Samuel Collins transported on this list. http://www.convictrecords.com.au/convicts/collins Nadine -----Original Message----- From: Lesley Uebel Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 9:37 AM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PJ] Samuel Collins "Mangles" Hi Geoff There was no Samuel Collins on the Mangles (6) arriving in 1833. There was a Samuel Coombes and a James Collins both of whom stated that they were protestants. Regasrds Lesley http://www.claimaconvict.net/index.html CLAIM A CONVICT email: ckennedy@bigpond.net.au On 6/08/2013 6:16 PM, collins.g@bigpond.com wrote: > Thanks Pm > > I am weeding through them , have found many references to the 19/4/1833 > voyage but I am still trying to locate a convict list. > > Regards > > Geoff Collins > > ---------------------- To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

That Separation Agreement may be with the Devon Archives or the National Archives - I found my Gt Grandfather's divorce papers at the National Archives - boy was that interesting reading. N You are more than welcome. -----Original Message----- From: MARTIN HOLDSWORTH Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 10:02 AM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PJ] William Heard/Herd/Hard Chasty Thank you for all this information. Some I had some I did not and thankful for the details of Charles Heard the father in law of William Heard Chasty. I also did not know about the separation order but knew of the argument. Im very thankful. Patsy Holdsworth ________________________________ From: "rockrat@eircom.net" <rockrat@eircom.net> To: MARTIN HOLDSWORTH <patsyagain@btinternet.com>; aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, 6 August 2013, 9:40 Subject: Re: [PJ] William Heard/Herd/Hard Chasty Okay have you got this? Silvester Treleavens Diary 1808 this is obviously the father: Thur. Feb. 25th. Married Mr. Wm. Chasty Clock Maker to Miss Susan Heard daughter of Mr. Charles Heard. Mr Chasty, watch and clock Maker and his wife having some words, she left him, and declared from the cruel manner he had treated her since marriage (14 weeks) that she would never live with him more, in consequence of which a separation deed was agreed on, parted the Furniture and resolved never to live together again. Wed. Dec. 28th. Died aged 72, Mr Charles Heard Glazier. N -----Original Message----- From: MARTIN HOLDSWORTH Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 8:58 AM To: Uebel Subject: [PJ] William Heard/Herd/Hard Chasty Dear All, Listers have been extremely helpful and have given me alot of information surrounding my direct ancestor but I am still unable to find and death certificate or any issue from his time as a convict in Australia. He went out on the Neva in 1833 and was granted a certiificate of freedom (1847 I think). He was born in 1808 in the Exeter area of Devon, England. His UK children were brought up by their grandparents. Can anyone help? No- else seems to be tracing the Chasty's on the main UK websites (genes reunited., find my past), and I don't know if anyone in Australia is trying. I am suspicious he returned to the UK as part of his jewellers shop became the Kangaroo pub and descendants are named Sydney and Adelaide but I just cannot prove anything. I have lots of newspaper articles which are very interesting but if I could find a family or death it would be more concrete. Patsy (Patricia Holdsworth) ---------------------- To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ---------------------- To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ---------------------- To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

More from Project Guttenberg Chasty, Robert, Hatherleigh ; Chasty, William, Teignmouth. I was assured by the owner of a clock by W. Chasty that he was a member of a well-known Teignmouth family of clock makers. I should be very grateful for reports of other examples. A correspondent writes that Robert Chasty " often permitted me to see him at work cutting cog-wheels, etc.," and that he " was an aged man when I knew him in the forties." page: Full text of "Devon & Cornwall notes & queries" - Internet Archive archive.org/stream/.../devoncornwallnot09amer_djvu.txt Pigot 1830 myweb.tiscali.co.uk/terryleaman/Tiscali/Pigot_1830_Directory.htm‎ Swan, Joseph Turner, Cain's lane. WATCH & CLOCK MAKERS. Bowden William, Paington Chasty William, Torwood st. Soper Thomas, 8 Braddon's row. -----Original Message----- From: MARTIN HOLDSWORTH Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 8:58 AM To: Uebel Subject: [PJ] William Heard/Herd/Hard Chasty Dear All, Listers have been extremely helpful and have given me alot of information surrounding my direct ancestor but I am still unable to find and death certificate or any issue from his time as a convict in Australia. He went out on the Neva in 1833 and was granted a certiificate of freedom (1847 I think). He was born in 1808 in the Exeter area of Devon, England. His UK children were brought up by their grandparents. Can anyone help? No- else seems to be tracing the Chasty's on the main UK websites (genes reunited., find my past), and I don't know if anyone in Australia is trying. I am suspicious he returned to the UK as part of his jewellers shop became the Kangaroo pub and descendants are named Sydney and Adelaide but I just cannot prove anything. I have lots of newspaper articles which are very interesting but if I could find a family or death it would be more concrete. Patsy (Patricia Holdsworth) ---------------------- To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Morning Lesley There was a Samuel Collins from Exeter QS Devon could this be his rellie? Sentence term: 14 years Ship: John Calvin Departure date: 9th May, 1846 Arrival date*: 9th January, 1847 Place of arrival Van Diemen's Land and Norfolk Island Nadine -----Original Message----- From: Lesley Uebel Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 9:37 AM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PJ] Samuel Collins "Mangles" Hi Geoff There was no Samuel Collins on the Mangles (6) arriving in 1833. There was a Samuel Coombes and a James Collins both of whom stated that they were protestants. Regasrds Lesley http://www.claimaconvict.net/index.html CLAIM A CONVICT email: ckennedy@bigpond.net.au On 6/08/2013 6:16 PM, collins.g@bigpond.com wrote: > Thanks Pm > > I am weeding through them , have found many references to the 19/4/1833 > voyage but I am still trying to locate a convict list. > > Regards > > Geoff Collins > > ---------------------- To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you for all this information. Some I had some I did not and thankful for the details of Charles Heard the father in law of William Heard Chasty. I also did not know about the separation order but knew of the argument. Im very thankful. Patsy Holdsworth ________________________________ From: "rockrat@eircom.net" <rockrat@eircom.net> To: MARTIN HOLDSWORTH <patsyagain@btinternet.com>; aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, 6 August 2013, 9:40 Subject: Re: [PJ] William Heard/Herd/Hard Chasty Okay have you got this? Silvester Treleavens Diary 1808 this is obviously the father: Thur. Feb. 25th.  Married Mr. Wm. Chasty Clock Maker to Miss Susan Heard daughter of Mr. Charles Heard. Mr Chasty, watch and clock Maker and his wife having some words, she left him, and declared from the cruel manner he had treated her since marriage (14 weeks) that she would never live with him more, in consequence of which a separation deed was agreed on, parted the Furniture and resolved never to live together again. Wed. Dec. 28th.  Died aged 72, Mr Charles Heard Glazier. N -----Original Message----- From: MARTIN HOLDSWORTH Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 8:58 AM To: Uebel Subject: [PJ] William Heard/Herd/Hard Chasty Dear All, Listers have been extremely helpful and have given me alot of information surrounding my direct ancestor but I am still unable to find and death certificate or any issue from his time as a convict in Australia. He went out on the Neva in 1833 and was granted a certiificate of freedom (1847 I think). He was born in 1808 in the Exeter area of Devon, England. His  UK children were brought up by their grandparents. Can anyone help? No- else seems to be tracing the Chasty's on the main UK websites (genes reunited., find my past), and I don't know if anyone in Australia is trying. I am suspicious he returned to the UK as part of his jewellers shop became the Kangaroo pub and descendants are named Sydney and Adelaide but I just cannot prove anything.  I have lots of newspaper articles which are very interesting but if I could find a family or death it would be more concrete. Patsy (Patricia Holdsworth) ---------------------- To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ---------------------- To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to  AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Okay have you got this? Silvester Treleavens Diary 1808 this is obviously the father: Thur. Feb. 25th. Married Mr. Wm. Chasty Clock Maker to Miss Susan Heard daughter of Mr. Charles Heard. Mr Chasty, watch and clock Maker and his wife having some words, she left him, and declared from the cruel manner he had treated her since marriage (14 weeks) that she would never live with him more, in consequence of which a separation deed was agreed on, parted the Furniture and resolved never to live together again. Wed. Dec. 28th. Died aged 72, Mr Charles Heard Glazier. N -----Original Message----- From: MARTIN HOLDSWORTH Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 8:58 AM To: Uebel Subject: [PJ] William Heard/Herd/Hard Chasty Dear All, Listers have been extremely helpful and have given me alot of information surrounding my direct ancestor but I am still unable to find and death certificate or any issue from his time as a convict in Australia. He went out on the Neva in 1833 and was granted a certiificate of freedom (1847 I think). He was born in 1808 in the Exeter area of Devon, England. His UK children were brought up by their grandparents. Can anyone help? No- else seems to be tracing the Chasty's on the main UK websites (genes reunited., find my past), and I don't know if anyone in Australia is trying. I am suspicious he returned to the UK as part of his jewellers shop became the Kangaroo pub and descendants are named Sydney and Adelaide but I just cannot prove anything. I have lots of newspaper articles which are very interesting but if I could find a family or death it would be more concrete. Patsy (Patricia Holdsworth) ---------------------- To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

According to the London Gazette published 1815 By order of the Court for the Relief of Insolvent Debtors: William Chasty, late of the parish of Chulmleigh, in the county of Devon, watch-maker, but now a prisoner in His Majesty's gaol of Saint Thomas the Apostle, in the county of Devon, for debt. -----Original Message----- From: MARTIN HOLDSWORTH Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 8:58 AM To: Uebel Subject: [PJ] William Heard/Herd/Hard Chasty Dear All, Listers have been extremely helpful and have given me alot of information surrounding my direct ancestor but I am still unable to find and death certificate or any issue from his time as a convict in Australia. He went out on the Neva in 1833 and was granted a certiificate of freedom (1847 I think). He was born in 1808 in the Exeter area of Devon, England. His UK children were brought up by their grandparents. Can anyone help? No- else seems to be tracing the Chasty's on the main UK websites (genes reunited., find my past), and I don't know if anyone in Australia is trying. I am suspicious he returned to the UK as part of his jewellers shop became the Kangaroo pub and descendants are named Sydney and Adelaide but I just cannot prove anything. I have lots of newspaper articles which are very interesting but if I could find a family or death it would be more concrete. Patsy (Patricia Holdsworth) ---------------------- To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

More Chasty, William of Teignmouth. This clockmaker or watchmaker has 1 trade directory entry listed on this site. http://www.clockswatches.com/ Apparently he was an insolvent debtor- http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/DevonMisc/Insolvents1827.html >From the National Archives Kews: William Chasty, watch maker 4678 A/PO 2/98 1814 Contents: Now in Chulmleigh, he was born in Okehampton where his father belonged. This would be worth chasing up. You need an account with them - sometimes they email stuff - this is the web site address: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/A2A/records.aspx?cat=027-4678a&cid=-1&Gsm=2012-06-18#-1 He was baptised in Church of England Chulmleigh Parish Devon. These are the records held and can be accessed here: http://www.devon.gov.uk CHULMLEIGH Births 1653-1953 Marriages 1653-1986 Deaths 1653-1989 There are many William Chasty on this register. http://www.thegenealogist.co.uk/ Best wishes Nadine -----Original Message----- From: MARTIN HOLDSWORTH Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 8:58 AM To: Uebel Subject: [PJ] William Heard/Herd/Hard Chasty Dear All, Listers have been extremely helpful and have given me alot of information surrounding my direct ancestor but I am still unable to find and death certificate or any issue from his time as a convict in Australia. He went out on the Neva in 1833 and was granted a certiificate of freedom (1847 I think). He was born in 1808 in the Exeter area of Devon, England. His UK children were brought up by their grandparents. Can anyone help? No- else seems to be tracing the Chasty's on the main UK websites (genes reunited., find my past), and I don't know if anyone in Australia is trying. I am suspicious he returned to the UK as part of his jewellers shop became the Kangaroo pub and descendants are named Sydney and Adelaide but I just cannot prove anything. I have lots of newspaper articles which are very interesting but if I could find a family or death it would be more concrete. Patsy (Patricia Holdsworth) ---------------------- To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Patsy 1. Have you tried the incoming Ships List to the UK? They are fragmented but you may find something. www.nationalarchives.gov.uk There are two deaths of William Chasty in Devon but sadly they don't give an age for either of them and no sign of the name Heard and derivatives. Is it possible he dropped the name Chasty and used the name Heard? I spent years looking for Sarah Crabtree born 1745 - found her under Grubtree. All avenues must be explored - I will drop dead at this laptop searching for my family!!!!!! Deaths Sep 1843 CHASTY William Okehampton 10 116 Deaths Dec 1852 Chasty William Newton Abbot 5b 85 Best wishes Nadine -----Original Message----- From: MARTIN HOLDSWORTH Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 8:58 AM To: Uebel Subject: [PJ] William Heard/Herd/Hard Chasty Dear All, Listers have been extremely helpful and have given me alot of information surrounding my direct ancestor but I am still unable to find and death certificate or any issue from his time as a convict in Australia. He went out on the Neva in 1833 and was granted a certiificate of freedom (1847 I think). He was born in 1808 in the Exeter area of Devon, England. His UK children were brought up by their grandparents. Can anyone help? No- else seems to be tracing the Chasty's on the main UK websites (genes reunited., find my past), and I don't know if anyone in Australia is trying. I am suspicious he returned to the UK as part of his jewellers shop became the Kangaroo pub and descendants are named Sydney and Adelaide but I just cannot prove anything. I have lots of newspaper articles which are very interesting but if I could find a family or death it would be more concrete. Patsy (Patricia Holdsworth) ---------------------- To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear All, Listers have been extremely helpful and have given me alot of information surrounding my direct ancestor but I am still unable to find and death certificate or any issue from his time as a convict in Australia. He went out on the Neva in 1833 and was granted a certiificate of freedom (1847 I think). He was born in 1808 in the Exeter area of Devon, England. His  UK children were brought up by their grandparents. Can anyone help? No- else seems to be tracing the Chasty's on the main UK websites (genes reunited., find my past), and I don't know if anyone in Australia is trying. I am suspicious he returned to the UK as part of his jewellers shop became the Kangaroo pub and descendants are named Sydney and Adelaide but I just cannot prove anything.  I have lots of newspaper articles which are very interesting but if I could find a family or death it would be more concrete. Patsy (Patricia Holdsworth)

Good afternoon all, My Denis Hogan came here as a convict in the 1830s, from Tipperary, and he eventually married Margaret Carey who I'm 99% sure also came from Ireland and they had three sons and a daughter. The first two sons James and John both married and had the usual large families, I am a descendant of John Hogan and Frances Marjoram, have followed that through another generation or so, and I am now looking to find who survived to adulthood, in the James and Mary (nee Jackson) Hogan family. I believe James and Mary married in 1866, and had the following children - John 1866 Rylstone; Margaret M. 1868 Forbes; Patrick 1868 Rylstone; Michael 1871 Rylstone; James 1873 Rylstone; William 1875 Parkes; Bridget Ann 1875 Rylstone. Any help and details on any of these families would be appreciated. Liz Walker.

HI Mat The Indent for those early ships was made up in England and not on arrival. The convicts listed may or may not have actually arrived - actually some may not have sailed and may have been replaced by others not listed on any Indent. It may be difficult to construct a list of those who actually arrived given the first muster taken was some years after the arrival on those in 1791. I have gathered information on those who may not be listed but who received a pardon of some description. No list available will be correct in every respect. Are you after someone in particular? Regards Lesley Uebel http://www.claimaconvict.net/index.html CLAIM A CONVICT email: ckennedy@bigpond.net.au On 31/07/2013 7:17 PM, Matt Hall wrote: > I've searched the web but can't find the answer ; the Third Fleet > Transportation Register (which I am viewing scans of via ancestry.com) > lists convicts listed for transport on nine ships in one list - the ship an > individual was to sail on is not listed. On the web I've seen several lists > showing convicts on each ship - my understanding was that indents were not > prepared on arrival. Is there another record of passengers embarked on each > ship, or have ship lists been constructed from other records? > thanks, > matt >

I've searched the web but can't find the answer ; the Third Fleet Transportation Register (which I am viewing scans of via ancestry.com) lists convicts listed for transport on nine ships in one list - the ship an individual was to sail on is not listed. On the web I've seen several lists showing convicts on each ship - my understanding was that indents were not prepared on arrival. Is there another record of passengers embarked on each ship, or have ship lists been constructed from other records? thanks, matt

Many thanks, all, especially Lesley I really appreciate all the help. Gloria

Hi Matt I understand your dilemma - it is a bit difficult to organise an inter-library loan from Australian libraries from the USA. Regards Lesley Uebel http://www.claimaconvict.net/index.html CLAIM A CONVICT email: ckennedy@bigpond.net.au On 29/07/2013 5:09 AM, Matt Hall wrote: > Thanks everyone on your feedback on 1st-3rd Fleet published biographies. In > reading around I found a note in a 2011 history article that Michael Flynn > is currently working (well, as of 2011) on a revised edition of the > "Founders of Australia". Not sure what the timeline is on that, but it's > good to know while I weigh up the decision on whether to throw $150 on an > old the original edition! (There aren't any copies on nearby libraries). > Thought others might like to know also. > cheers, > matt

Matt. If you are in oz, then you should be able to order most books into your local library for a small charge (some don't charge), under the Inter-Library-Loan system. Also, if you are near a university library in an oz city, they would be expected to hold copies of it too, and permit cheap photocopies as well --- or these days probably facilitate scans onto a 'stick' etc. Either phone their library, or look for their library catalogue online. Good Luck. ray On 29/07/2013, at 5:09 AM, Matt Hall <cispt2@gmail.com> wrote: Thanks everyone on your feedback on 1st-3rd Fleet published biographies. In reading around I found a note in a 2011 history article that Michael Flynn is currently working (well, as of 2011) on a revised edition of the "Founders of Australia". Not sure what the timeline is on that, but it's good to know while I weigh up the decision on whether to throw $150 on an old the original edition! (There aren't any copies on nearby libraries). Thought others might like to know also. cheers, matt ----------------------

Thanks everyone on your feedback on 1st-3rd Fleet published biographies. In reading around I found a note in a 2011 history article that Michael Flynn is currently working (well, as of 2011) on a revised edition of the "Founders of Australia". Not sure what the timeline is on that, but it's good to know while I weigh up the decision on whether to throw $150 on an old the original edition! (There aren't any copies on nearby libraries). Thought others might like to know also. cheers, matt