Hi Janine As you live at Halls Creek you would have to pay SAG to send you a copy of both of them. I once provided a transcription service for these but gave up a few years ago. The Indent does not note that he received a Certificate of Freedom, nor can I find one listed on the State Records of NSW web site. Do you have the information provided on the Indent for Edward? regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of janine h Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 4:53 PM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PJ] Edward Ivill I'm after a Certificate of Freedom or Ticket of Leave for the above convict. Are these available from the NSW archives? Cheers Janine Halls Creek WA.

Wonderful, she's the 5th Convict I've found in my mother's line. In the information it says her status is 'Bond'. Will you explain what this means please? Janine

Hi again, Was Catherine Bradshaw a Convict as well?? Janine

Thank you very much for the information Lesley, you're a legend ! Would you happen to have the passenger list for the Sarah? Cheers Janine.

Hi Lesley Thanks for the info. I've just recently found out that Edward Ivill was a convict from the Monaro Pioneers website. All I have is that he arrived in NSW on 7 Dec 1829 on board the Sarah. I have no other info, and no, not the indent either. I'm quite happy to pay for the information especially since it is impossible for me to get from here. Cheers and thanks. Janine

I'm after a Certificate of Freedom or Ticket of Leave for the above convict. Are these available from the NSW archives? Cheers Janine Halls Creek WA.

Hi Pat John Hawkes received his Certificate of Freedom in 1844 - not his Ticket of Leave. He received his TOL in 1843. It may be worth obtaining the butts of both documents. regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Pat Pitts Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 11:09 AM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: [PJ] JOHN HAWKES Hi Listers I hope everyone had an enjoyable christmas and wish everyone a very happy new year. I am trying to work out what happened to my convict John Hawkes from the time he arrived in Australia on the Earl Grey 2 in 1838 till the time he wed Mary Ann Davis on 28 feb 1852 in the Parish of Kilmore & Seymour. I know he received his TOL in 1844 (thanks Lesley). They family moved to Gundaroo (now ACT) sometime in the mid 1850s as their last none child Thomas was born there. John was a Shepherd and prior to being sent to Australia was a Spur Plater in Walsall, Stratford. The Gundaroo site does not have him listed on the convict list - obviously because he was not a convict at the time the family was living there. I also cannot trace the family after son William (Born 1858 Gundaroo) died and was buried July 1860 at Gundaroo. The only information I have on the family is when youngest son Thomas was married in Roma Queensland. He married an Emily Wright who was born at Duck Creek Cannoubar NSW. I note that there is an Index of Colonial Convict Movements 1827 to 1853 but this is only available in the NSW Library and I live in a remote area of central victoria. Can anyone have a look at any CD'S or information they may have on convict movements, work records. Any help or assistance would be most appreciated. Thanks

Hi Lesley, I hope you had a great Christmas. :-) Before Christmas it was suggested to me to get both baptism records - which I have done. But they do not give me any further info than I had. :-( I will try to get to the State Library and look at the originals, hopefully as you suggest, it may show the dates have been confused. Although I find it difficult to understand how Harrison could be accidently written as Harreur - no matter how poor the literacy of the Clerk. Regards Janine

Hi Listers I hope everyone had an enjoyable christmas and wish everyone a very happy new year. I am trying to work out what happened to my convict John Hawkes from the time he arrived in Australia on the Earl Grey 2 in 1838 till the time he wed Mary Ann Davis on 28 feb 1852 in the Parish of Kilmore & Seymour. I know he received his TOL in 1844 (thanks Lesley). They family moved to Gundaroo (now ACT) sometime in the mid 1850s as their last none child Thomas was born there. John was a Shepherd and prior to being sent to Australia was a Spur Plater in Walsall, Stratford. The Gundaroo site does not have him listed on the convict list - obviously because he was not a convict at the time the family was living there. I also cannot trace the family after son William (Born 1858 Gundaroo) died and was buried July 1860 at Gundaroo. The only information I have on the family is when youngest son Thomas was married in Roma Queensland. He married an Emily Wright who was born at Duck Creek Cannoubar NSW. I note that there is an Index of Colonial Convict Movements 1827 to 1853 but this is only available in the NSW Library and I live in a remote area of central victoria. Can anyone have a look at any CD'S or information they may have on convict movements, work records. Any help or assistance would be most appreciated. Thanks Pat Mott Researching HAWK, HAWKE, HAWKES, DAVIS, MOTT, GREEN, ANDERSON, RIGG, CAMPBELL, MAC TAGGART, TAGGART, RAIN, CONROY, ROBINSON, HOLGATE, DINES, MARSH

Leslie wrote ..... I would suggest that both of those baptisms are for the same child. If I were you I would check the BDM films for myself to ensure that the 1804 baptism record is correct as something appears amiss as one record states he was born 28 February 1804 and another 28 February 1805. I agree with Leslie As the 1804 and 1805 baptism are a mess, ... Vol 4 Index numbers don't match up with the actual register And yes there are many duplicates If child was born 1804 and bap 1805, there are many cases of a dupicate entry in 1804 Cathy Dunn -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lesley Uebel Sent: Sunday, 28 December 2008 10:50 AM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PJ] Charles Harrison Menzie Hi Janine, Mindred / Mildred Rose arrived on the Glatton arrived 11 March 1803. Lieutenant Charles A.F.N. Menzies arrived in Port Jackson on the Calcutta on 26 December 1803 and by 18 March 1804 was Commandant at Newcastle. Even accounting for a 7 month baby, a child to this couple would not have been possible before July 1804, as we discussed a month ago. I would suggest that both of those baptisms are for the same child. If I were you I would check the BDM films for myself to ensure that the 1804 baptism record is correct as something appears amiss as one record states he was born 28 February 1804 and another 28 February 1805. Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Steve Gall Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 11:28 PM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: [PJ] Charles Harrison Menzie Hi Listers, Wonder if any one can shed any light on these two baptisms. Number 880 vol 4 Charles Harrison Menzies: born 28 FEB 1805 Date of ceremony: 23 June, 1805 Where registered: St Phillips, Sydney Father: Charles Menzies Mother: Mildred Rose as well as one for Charles Harreur Harrison: b 28 Feb 1804 Where registered: Sydney, St Phillips Father: Charles Menzies Mother: Elizabeth Rose Do you know anything about this other child as it seems a bit strange? As far as I know Menzies arrived on the "Calcutta" at the beginning of 1804 - so how could he be the father of Charles Harreur. Although I'm not a direct descendant of Charles Menzies I was curious. Harreur seems an unusual middle name. I googled it and came up with some sites in the French language but no direct translation. Does anyone know of an Elizabeth Rose in the colony at this time? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Janine, Mindred / Mildred Rose arrived on the Glatton arrived 11 March 1803. Lieutenant Charles A.F.N. Menzies arrived in Port Jackson on the Calcutta on 26 December 1803 and by 18 March 1804 was Commandant at Newcastle. Even accounting for a 7 month baby, a child to this couple would not have been possible before July 1804, as we discussed a month ago. I would suggest that both of those baptisms are for the same child. If I were you I would check the BDM films for myself to ensure that the 1804 baptism record is correct as something appears amiss as one record states he was born 28 February 1804 and another 28 February 1805. Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Steve Gall Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 11:28 PM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: [PJ] Charles Harrison Menzie Hi Listers, Wonder if any one can shed any light on these two baptisms. Number 880 vol 4 Charles Harrison Menzies: born 28 FEB 1805 Date of ceremony: 23 June, 1805 Where registered: St Phillips, Sydney Father: Charles Menzies Mother: Mildred Rose as well as one for Charles Harreur Harrison: b 28 Feb 1804 Where registered: Sydney, St Phillips Father: Charles Menzies Mother: Elizabeth Rose Do you know anything about this other child as it seems a bit strange? As far as I know Menzies arrived on the "Calcutta" at the beginning of 1804 - so how could he be the father of Charles Harreur. Although I'm not a direct descendant of Charles Menzies I was curious. Harreur seems an unusual middle name. I googled it and came up with some sites in the French language but no direct translation. Does anyone know of an Elizabeth Rose in the colony at this time?

Well, that puts a different light on it all together, doesn't it. mmmmm. Cheers. Annie. > Steve Gall <sandjgall@iprimus.com.au> wrote: > > Hi Annie, > > > > Sorry I should have said that Mildred Rose Harrison came out on the > "Glatton" 11/3/1803. Lt Charles Menzies came out on HMS "Calcutta" > arriving > in Port Jackson 1804 just in time for the Vinegar Hill rebellion in > March. > Charles Harreur could have been Mildred's' (with her name recorded > wrongly > as Elizabeth) but the father couldn't have been Lt Menzies - unless > there > was another Charles Menzie in the colony! > > Lt Menzies didn't marry Mildred as he went back to England but got his > friend Lt Johnson to look after her - he takes her to Hobart. Charles > Harrison was definitely Mildred Roses son. She takes him to Hobart with > her > - he lives to be 90 years old and have 12 children. > > > > Regards Janine > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Annie, Sorry I should have said that Mildred Rose Harrison came out on the "Glatton" 11/3/1803. Lt Charles Menzies came out on HMS "Calcutta" arriving in Port Jackson 1804 just in time for the Vinegar Hill rebellion in March. Charles Harreur could have been Mildred's' (with her name recorded wrongly as Elizabeth) but the father couldn't have been Lt Menzies - unless there was another Charles Menzie in the colony! Lt Menzies didn't marry Mildred as he went back to England but got his friend Lt Johnson to look after her - he takes her to Hobart. Charles Harrison was definitely Mildred Roses son. She takes him to Hobart with her - he lives to be 90 years old and have 12 children. Regards Janine

Sreve, When did Mildred Rose arrive?? Was she on the same ship as Charles?? Elizabeth could be Mildred & they've misheard the name due to accents etc. Charles could've fallen in love with an already pregnant Mildred/Elizabeth & claimed the baby as his own. If the second baby was named Charles too then the first must've died. Is there a death for him?? Did Charles & Mildred marry?? We may never know for sure what happened. Cheers. Annie from Cairns, Aus. > Steve Gall <sandjgall@iprimus.com.au> wrote: > > Hi Listers, > > > > Wonder if any one can shed any light on these two baptisms. > > > > Number 880 vol 4 > > Charles Harrison Menzies: born 28 FEB 1805 > > Date of ceremony: 23 June, 1805 > > Where registered: St Phillips, Sydney > > Father: Charles Menzies > > Mother: Mildred Rose > > > > as well as one for > > > > Charles Harreur Harrison: b 28 Feb 1804 > > Where registered: Sydney, St Phillips > > Father: Charles Menzies > > Mother: Elizabeth Rose > > > > Do you know anything about this other child as it seems a bit strange? > As > far as I know Menzies arrived on the "Calcutta" at the beginning of 1804 > - > so how could he be the father of Charles Harreur. Although I'm not a > direct > descendant of Charles Menzies I was curious. Harreur seems an unusual > middle > name. I googled it and came up with some sites in the French language > but no > direct translation. Does anyone know of an Elizabeth Rose in the colony > at > this time? > > > > Hope you had a great Christmas > > > > Regards Janine > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Listers, Wonder if any one can shed any light on these two baptisms. Number 880 vol 4 Charles Harrison Menzies: born 28 FEB 1805 Date of ceremony: 23 June, 1805 Where registered: St Phillips, Sydney Father: Charles Menzies Mother: Mildred Rose as well as one for Charles Harreur Harrison: b 28 Feb 1804 Where registered: Sydney, St Phillips Father: Charles Menzies Mother: Elizabeth Rose Do you know anything about this other child as it seems a bit strange? As far as I know Menzies arrived on the "Calcutta" at the beginning of 1804 - so how could he be the father of Charles Harreur. Although I'm not a direct descendant of Charles Menzies I was curious. Harreur seems an unusual middle name. I googled it and came up with some sites in the French language but no direct translation. Does anyone know of an Elizabeth Rose in the colony at this time? Hope you had a great Christmas Regards Janine

Hi Barbara, >From the CD "Index of Colonial Convict Movements 1827 to 1853" produced by the Descendents of Convicts Group, Thomas DUCKWORTH arrived in the Colony on the Eliza 4 and was later transported to Norfolk Island on the Lucy Anne on 03/05/1830. Under "Remarks" is the Statement "Properly Ironed". The references are Page 340, Location 4/3596, Reel # 1062 which I feel sure refers to the NSW Records Office location of the original information. I could not find a reference as to his return. Cheers Peter Melbourne > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 06:46:28 +1000 > From: "Barbara B." <bbanar@tpg.com.au> > Subject: [PJ] Convicts to Norfolk Island. > To: <AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <001301c9679b$08e3abe0$101df13c@default> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Greetings List, > > I am wanting to confirm a deportation of a convict from NSW to Norfolk > Island. > Thomas Duckworth was supposed to have been tried and sentenced in NSW > 1830? and was then sent > to Norfolk Island aboard the "Lucy Anne". > > During the time of this conviction he was serving a life sentence in > NSW; I have these records. > Your help with Norfolk Island records would be much appreciated, as I'm > having no luck in searching on line > Thank you. > > Barbara/ Queensland. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:27:07 +1100 > From: "jude" <judeoshea@optushome.com.au> > Subject: [PJ] Shearing Industry > To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <004001c967e3$c31cee20$0201a8c0@userxp> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hello All, > Max mentioned a study of the shearing industry. I would be very interested > to hear if anyone finds out more about this. > All the best to everyone for the coming year and thanks Lesley for another > great year. > Jude O'Shea > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS list administrator, send an email > to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS mailing list, send an > email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS Digest, Vol 3, Issue 404 > *******************************************************

Hello All, Max mentioned a study of the shearing industry. I would be very interested to hear if anyone finds out more about this. All the best to everyone for the coming year and thanks Lesley for another great year. Jude O'Shea

Greetings List, I am wanting to confirm a deportation of a convict from NSW to Norfolk Island. Thomas Duckworth was supposed to have been tried and sentenced in NSW 1830? and was then sent to Norfolk Island aboard the "Lucy Anne". During the time of this conviction he was serving a life sentence in NSW; I have these records. Your help with Norfolk Island records would be much appreciated, as I'm having no luck in searching on line Thank you. Barbara/ Queensland.

thanks Peter, I've just ordered it ----- Original Message ----- From: "peter strauss" <pstrauss@aapt.net.au> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com>; <rosaleeshaw@ozemail.com.au> Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 7:48 PM Subject: First Australian Bank Robbery > > Hi Rosalee, > > This saga is the subject of an excellent narrative history by Carol Baxter > called "Breaking the Bank" published earlier this year by Allen & Unwin. > > One of my convict ancestors, George DUDLEY who had not long completed his > original sentence was found guilty of receiving some of the Promissory > notes and headed off to Norfolk Island for 14 years. > > It is a good read. > > Cheers > > Peter > Melbourne >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 18:50:07 +1100 >> From: "Rosalee" <rosaleeshaw@ozemail.com.au> >> Subject: [PJ] First Australian Bank Robbery >> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> >> Message-ID: <6F574431736B46E19C7BDD6A43BCDB96@owner506bf5eac> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> Oh, it pays to have a quiet Boxing Day!! >> >> I have been "googling" and "surfing" today, and tried my luck on a long >> time brick wall. >> >> Anne Toole, (Broxbournbury) was the daughter of a convict (Bernard Toole) >> (Somersetshire) who married John Wilford, alias Creighton (Bencoolen) >> when she was 14. >> >> Both John and her father drowned in 1829, when she was about 16 or >> 17...............and then I lost her. >> >> Now I know !! >> >> It seems that John was involved in the first australian bank robbery, on >> 14th september 1828 (and it seems they got quite a haul- some ?14,000 in >> promissory notes and coins) but he drowned before police could find an >> informant to give evidence. The circumstances of the drowning seem now >> somewhat suspicious. >> >> Anne, I now find, re-married with some speed - to James Dingle, a >> co-conspirator, very soon after her husband's death - and here was I >> thinking about this poor traumatised girl..... in the depths of >> depression, perhaps unable to move on with her life or see a >> future.....<huh> >> >> Anne's mother married just 5 months later as well, to the local >> constable.......I always wondered why, and now I am intrigued! >> >> If anyone knows more about this family, or about the story, please >> contact me. I am still looking for a death and offspring. >> >> Rosalee >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> To contact the AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS list administrator, send an email >> to >> AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-admin@rootsweb.com. >> >> To post a message to the AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS mailing list, send an >> email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com. >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com >> with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the >> body of the >> email with no additional text. >> >> >> End of AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS Digest, Vol 3, Issue 403 >> ******************************************************* > >

Hi Rosalee, This saga is the subject of an excellent narrative history by Carol Baxter called "Breaking the Bank" published earlier this year by Allen & Unwin. One of my convict ancestors, George DUDLEY who had not long completed his original sentence was found guilty of receiving some of the Promissory notes and headed off to Norfolk Island for 14 years. It is a good read. Cheers Peter Melbourne > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 18:50:07 +1100 > From: "Rosalee" <rosaleeshaw@ozemail.com.au> > Subject: [PJ] First Australian Bank Robbery > To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <6F574431736B46E19C7BDD6A43BCDB96@owner506bf5eac> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Oh, it pays to have a quiet Boxing Day!! > > I have been "googling" and "surfing" today, and tried my luck on a long > time brick wall. > > Anne Toole, (Broxbournbury) was the daughter of a convict (Bernard Toole) > (Somersetshire) who married John Wilford, alias Creighton (Bencoolen) when > she was 14. > > Both John and her father drowned in 1829, when she was about 16 or > 17...............and then I lost her. > > Now I know !! > > It seems that John was involved in the first australian bank robbery, on > 14th september 1828 (and it seems they got quite a haul- some ?14,000 in > promissory notes and coins) but he drowned before police could find an > informant to give evidence. The circumstances of the drowning seem now > somewhat suspicious. > > Anne, I now find, re-married with some speed - to James Dingle, a > co-conspirator, very soon after her husband's death - and here was I > thinking about this poor traumatised girl..... in the depths of > depression, perhaps unable to move on with her life or see a > future.....<huh> > > Anne's mother married just 5 months later as well, to the local > constable.......I always wondered why, and now I am intrigued! > > If anyone knows more about this family, or about the story, please contact > me. I am still looking for a death and offspring. > > Rosalee > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS list administrator, send an email > to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS mailing list, send an > email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS Digest, Vol 3, Issue 403 > *******************************************************