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I'm having a little trouble settling on the John ALLAN who married the widower Jane EDWARDS (nee FLETCHER) in 1815 at St Matthew's, Windsor, and her first husband Rowland EDWARDS was murdered at the Parramatta Toll House in 1814. The NSW Colonial Secretary Index lists the following items for 'ALLEN, John. Per "Anne", 1810' - 1815 Jan 27 Re permission to marry Jane Edwards at Windsor (Reel 6004; 4/3493 p.431) - 1817 Nov 24 Husband of widow of Rowland Edwards of Cornwallis; mentioned in petition of Samuel Tapster, servant of late Rowland Edwards for mitigation of sentence (Fiche 3181; 4/1853 p.328) The 1821 muster gives me where tried: Guildford, When tried: Aug 1808, Sentence: Life Emancipated. How disposed of: Landholder, Richmond, In colony. I'm not sure John stayed the 'landholder' of his wife's land, as in the 1828 census his wife (listed as Jane FLETCHER as she arrived in the colony) is the landholder, and there was disputation in the Sydney Gazette over ownership between the EDWARDS children and John ALLAN that was settled around this time. But I can't find John ALLAN in the 1828 census, and was wondering if anyone had any information on John ALLAN, perhaps from his 'permission' to marry in 1815? Many thanks, matt -- Matthew D. Hall Washington, DC cell: +1 410 733 9444 home: +1 202 370 6431

----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Pitts" <patpitts@iinet.net.au> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 10:44 AM Subject: Re: [PJ] JOHN HAWKES > Lesley > > I only received this email today despite it being sent on the > 28/12/08. I have made contact with my distant relative Jill who is > on the Claim the Convict site. The ship is incorrect I noted. I > have a lot of information to share - I know his wife and child in > England and was very excited to get the BC late last year of his son > born prior to him being shipped to Australia. I also know JOHN > HAWKES parents in England. I am not sure how about putting all this > information somewhere for others to find in the future. Your help > will be most appreciated. > > I am trying to find out what happened to John after 1860's at > Gundaroo. Also very interested to find out what happened since 1844 > and prior to his marriage to MARY ANN DAVIS. It appears who was > assigned to Mr George Potter at Gundaroo or in the Yass area. > Strange that he left there to marry in Seymour and then return back > to Gundaroo some years later. I am hoping this could have been > because of MARY ANN DAVIS'S family perhaps living at Gundaroo. > Unfortunately DAVIS is like having a SMITH in the family and tracing > is not easy. > > Thanks for all your advice and assistance. You have helped me so > many times over the years. > > Pat Mott > Researching HAWK, HAWKE, HAWKES, DAVIS, MOTT, GREEN, ANDERSON, RIGG, > CAMPBELL, MAC TAGGART, TAGGART, RAIN, CONROY, ROBINSON, HOLGATE, > DINES, MARSH > > On 28/12/2008, at 7:05 PM, Lesley Uebel wrote: > >> Hi Pat >> >> I cannot remember if you tried emailing that person who has claimed >> him on my >> web site. Some people claim convicts and know nothing about the >> convicts they >> claim, whilst others have a great deal of information to share - >> >> Regards >> Lesley Uebel >> mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au >> CLAIM A CONVICT >> http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Pat >> Pitts >> Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 5:53 PM >> To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [PJ] JOHN HAWKES >> >> >> Lesley >> >> Thanks for your response. I have his TOL but I will take your advice >> and try and get his Certificate of Freedom - see if that gives any >> other information. The TOL tells us nothing new. >> >> Thanks >> >> Pat >> >> Pat Mott >> Researching HAWK, HAWKE, HAWKES, DAVIS, MOTT, GREEN, ANDERSON, RIGG, >> CAMPBELL, MAC TAGGART, TAGGART, RAIN, CONROY, ROBINSON, HOLGATE, >> DINES, MARSH >> >> On 28/12/2008, at 12:49 PM, Lesley Uebel wrote: >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT- >> JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi all Rootsweb appears to be still having problem with delayed messages. If you send a message may I remind everyone to check the PJ Archives because the questions and replies are making it to the archives but are not being distributed immediately. http://tinyurl.com/92yjhw I know it is frustrating when you make the effort to write to the list and not see your message come through. There is nothing I can do about it and I hope that Rootsweb sort out their problems very soon. If it continues then I may have to re-open my other mailing list I hope that this one goes through Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au List Admin

Hi Michelle The Colonial Secretary Index gives mention to both William SADLER per "Baring" and Mary LILLIS per "Elizabeth" 1818. Permission to marry dates match. Check it out. http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/colsec/l/F33c_le-ll-12.htm#P5757_166097 Terry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michelle" <herbie_09@bigpond.com> To: <AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:53 PM Subject: [PJ] William Sadler arrived on the Baring 1819 > Hello > > I am tracing my family tree .... and looking for any information of a > William Sadler who arrived on the Baring in 1819. > > William was a boot maker and he married a Mary Lillias ... > > If you can assist me in my search I would be greatful > > Michelle Herbert > central coast NSW AUST > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.3/1879 - Release Date: 1/6/2009 5:16 PM

Hi Michelle And you can go to the Old Bailey site for his trial details. http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/ cheers Grahame On 07/01/2009, at 2:39 PM, Stan Elgood wrote: > Hi Michelle, > > According to the British Transportation Registers listed on the State > Library of Queensland website he was "Convicted at Middlesex Gaol > Delivery > for a term of life". > > Have you tried looking him up on the 1828 census at your local > library. > That should give you more info. > > The NSW Births Deaths and Marriages website my give further info if > you are > looking for dates of the marriage or births of their children. > > Lyn > Brisbane >

Hi Michelle According to "The Port Jackson Convicts Anthology" CD, William Sadler arrived on the Baring (2) in 1819. Tried Middlesex in 1818, received a 14 year sentence and was 21 years of age. He was granted permission to marry Mary Lillys, a convict who arrived on the Elizabeth I (2), in July 1823. Mary must have died before 1840, because in 1840 a female convict applied to marry him, but it was rejected on the grounds that the female stated on arrival that she was married with 2 children. On checking the actual Indent is states that William was tried on the 9 September 1818, received 14 years, he gave his native place as London, was a Shoemaker. He was 5 feet and 2 and a half inches tall, with fair to ruddy complexion, sandy brown hair and hazel eyes. You can read his actual trial details on the Old Bailey web site at: http://tinyurl.com/8wzjap According to the State Records of NSW web site he obtained his Certificate of Freedom on 11 October 1832... that is 14 years after his trial. I cannot find an entry in the 1822 General Muster for William although his wife Mary is listed as being in the Female Factory as Parramatta. In the 1823/4/5 General Muster List he was living at Liverpool and working as a Shoemaker - it also states incorrectly had he was serving a 7 year sentence. At this time his wife Mary was working as a Government Servant at the Orphan School. Mary received her certificate of Freedom on 26 May 1826. According to the 1828 NSW Census Mary Lilles was living in Pitt Street Sydney with 2 of her children, James Lilles 15 and Edward Lilles 12, both of whom arrived free with her. William Saddler is not mentioned in the 1828 NSW Census. regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Michelle Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:54 PM To: AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com Subject: [PJ] William Sadler arrived on the Baring 1819 Hello I am tracing my family tree .... and looking for any information of a William Sadler who arrived on the Baring in 1819. William was a boot maker and he married a Mary Lillias ... If you can assist me in my search I would be greatful Michelle Herbert central coast NSW AUST

Suscribe

Hi Michelle, I noticed on the NSW Births Deaths and Marriages website that there is an entry for : William Sadler who married MARY LILLACE in 1823 at St. Phillips Church of England church Sydney Lyn

Hi Michelle, According to the British Transportation Registers listed on the State Library of Queensland website he was "Convicted at Middlesex Gaol Delivery for a term of life". Have you tried looking him up on the 1828 census at your local library. That should give you more info. The NSW Births Deaths and Marriages website my give further info if you are looking for dates of the marriage or births of their children. Lyn Brisbane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michelle" <herbie_09@bigpond.com> To: <AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 11:53 AM Subject: [PJ] William Sadler arrived on the Baring 1819 > Hello > > I am tracing my family tree .... and looking for any information of a > William Sadler who arrived on the Baring in 1819. > > William was a boot maker and he married a Mary Lillias ... > > If you can assist me in my search I would be greatful > > Michelle Herbert > central coast NSW AUST > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello I am tracing my family tree .... and looking for any information of a William Sadler who arrived on the Baring in 1819. William was a boot maker and he married a Mary Lillias ... If you can assist me in my search I would be greatful Michelle Herbert central coast NSW AUST

Hello Karen, I have the following information for you from my book "Land Grants 1788-1809 - a record of registered grants and leases in NSW; VDL and NI" published by the Australian Document Library circa 1981. First off, in some of the grants he must have been recorded somewhere as "Cheap", Thomas as the index in the above book says "Cheap, Thomas see Chipp, Thomas". 1795 - BOOK 1A (Grants by William Patterson) No 471 - 5/9/1795 - Thomas Cheap (and 7 others) Granted 200 acres on the River Hawkesbury in the district of Mulgrave Place. Rent 4/- per year commencing after 5 years. >From other information in the book - I'm not sure whether these men had 25 acres each (ie separately) or held the 200 acres in common. This grant is part of the "Missing Land Grants" register/s - research about which is published in "Historical Studies Australia and New Zealand" Vol 5 pages 68-78 and pages 278-287. This was probably published circa 1951. The 8 men were: Chipp (Cheap), Thomas Briton, William Girdlestone, Robert Hooper, John Lee, James Loveday, Edward Sulivan (sic) Daniel White, James 1795 - Book 1A (Grants by Governor Hunter). No 484 - 15/10/1795 - Thomas Chipp Leased 60 acres on Norfolk Island. Rent £3 per year for 14 years commencing from 28 November, 1791. (Yes, 1791 is not a typo - looks like he and others had to pay some back rent - so he might have been there in 1791). 1795 - Book 2B (Grants by Governor Hunter) No 550 - 15/10/1795 - Thomas Chipp This is a duplication of the entry no. 484 in Book 1A. (Must have been 2 books going at the one time). 1795 - Book 3C (Grants by Governor Hunter) No 940 - 12/3/1800 - Joseph Foveaux Granted 600 acres in the district of Toongabbie. Rent 5 shillings per year commencing afer 5 years. "This ground was granted to John Hayes and Thomas Chipp, (two Non-commisioned Officers in the Marines and for their families; and purchased by the person in whose name the grant is made out (presumably Joseph Foveaux). This, together with two other grants of 980 acres and 190 acres (all three being included under the common name of "Stock Farm") sold to Mr John McArthur for £500 stg and the grants together with the deed of sale abovementioned given back to the Crown for land in the County of Camden, is destroyed this 30th May, 1823. (Signed) F Goulburn. NOTE. I can find no record in my book of land being granted to either Thomas Chipp or John Hayes in the Toongabbie district.. 1804 - Book 3c (Grants by Governor King) No 1173 - 4/6/1800 - Thomas Chipp. Granted 100 acres in the district of Bankstown. Rent: 3 shillings per year commencing after 5 years. 1809 - Book 4d (All land grants and leases Oct-Dec 1809). No 1718 - 24/11/1809 - Thomas Chipp 100 acres at Minto. The book doesn't say whether this was a lease or a grant. Nor does it say anything about rent. Joan Nichols > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Thanks so much for this Garry. I did a lot of research into the historical Bungarribee, but didn't think to keep looking and see what's currently happening, so probably wouldn't have found this myself. Happy NEw Year to you too. Again thanks Pam An Aussie transplanted to Rotorua, NZ At 11:56 1.01.09 +1100, Garry and Sandra Sanders wrote: >Happy New Year List > > > >For those who had convicts located at the Bungarribee Estate or thereabouts. > >

Kath Your help is most appreciated. I was lucky enough to have a look at the Gundaroo book at the Ballarat Library recently and could find no reference to JOHN HAWKES. There appears to be a lot of Davis families at GUNDAROO but I have tried through the Gundaroo site to contact some DAVIS researchers but with no luck as they have changed their email addresses. Thanks Pat Mott Researching HAWK, HAWKE, HAWKES, DAVIS, MOTT, GREEN, ANDERSON, RIGG, CAMPBELL, MAC TAGGART, TAGGART, RAIN, CONROY, ROBINSON, HOLGATE, DINES, MARSH On 06/01/2009, at 2:35 PM, Kath Connors wrote: > Hello Pat, > Went through a few records last night for you, I have a copy old > census and > think it is the 1861 no sign of John Hawks, also I forgot I had the > DAVIS > family > tree called " From a Little Acorn" by Beryl Pitman, no sign of John > Hawkes. > also have "GUNDAROO" by Errol Lea Scarlett written 1972. no sigh of a > Hawkes. > Do not give up Pat, > Kath > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT- > JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Pat, Went through a few records last night for you, I have a copy old census and think it is the 1861 no sign of John Hawks, also I forgot I had the DAVIS family tree called " From a Little Acorn" by Beryl Pitman, no sign of John Hawkes. also have "GUNDAROO" by Errol Lea Scarlett written 1972. no sigh of a Hawkes. Do not give up Pat, Kath

Hi Kath Can you advise me where I would be able to purchase "From a Little Acorn", thanks. Regards Julie > Went through a few records last night for you, I have a copy old census > and > think it is the 1861 no sign of John Hawks, also I forgot I had the DAVIS > family > tree called " From a Little Acorn" by Beryl Pitman, no sign of John > Hawkes. > also have "GUNDAROO" by Errol Lea Scarlett written 1972. no sigh of a > Hawkes.

Hi, I am trying to contact Juliette hendry (who initially made contact with me via this mailing list), but the last email address I had for her is no longer valid. Juliette, if you are still a member of this list could you email me privately at matheson1@pacific.net.au. Sorry for the intrusion for the rest of you!! Thanks Jennie Matheson

Christine, You will find many many convicts should you follow the children and their spouses through.... you will also find quite a number of cousins marrying cousins ! Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of christine Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:44 AM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PJ] James Winton Lesley, Thanks. It now appears that I have at least 2 convicts in the family as David Brown per the Pitt is also an ancester and several of his children married into the Bushell, Turnbull and Teale families. I'll have to check them all out now! I only have him as marrying Mary ann Lisson and their daughter Sarah marrying my GG grandfather John Brown- son of David Brown. Very intriguing!

Lesley, Thanks. It now appears that I have at least 2 convicts in the family as David Brown per the Pitt is also an ancester and several of his children married into the Bushell, Turnbull and Teale families. I'll have to check them all out now! I only have him as marrying Mary ann Lisson and their daughter Sarah marrying my GG grandfather John Brown- son of David Brown. Very intriguing! Christine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lesley Uebel" <ckennedy@bigpond.net.au> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [PJ] James Winton > Hi Christine, > > Yes, he was a convict per Larkins. His eldest daughter married into my > Rose > family and the others into other well known Hawkesbury families - Brown, > Teale, > Bushell, Asprey and Turnbull (loads of convicts in that lot) and did his > grandchildren. > > regards > > > Lesley Uebel > mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au > CLAIM A CONVICT > http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.2/1876 - Release Date: 1/5/2009 9:44 AM

Hi Donna As the author of that work - Edward Murphy didn't remarry whilst still serving his sentence regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Jo Eshuys Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 11:23 PM To: AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com Subject: [PJ] Edward Murphy per St Vincent Hi List My ancestor Edward Murphy arrived on the convict ship "St Vincent" in 1837. He was one of two Edward Murphy's on the St Vincent. Although his wife, Mary and son, Michael were to follow him 2 years later on board "Margaret 2" I have no evidence that they met up again and wonder if Edward remarried in Australia. I am wondering if someone with the Convicts permissions to marry CD could check to see if there was an application to marry made. Thanks to all Donna