He was just strolling along with 218 pounds of lead in a basket? About 100 kilos.... that someone threw at him??? Did he take up weightlifting later? *G* Minuet >"..feloniously stealing on the 6th May, two hundred and eighteen pounds >weight of lead, value 40s belonging to William Rothwell, fixed to a certain >building there situate against the statute" > >In defence Joseph replied " I was going to Knightsbridge, a man had this >basket, and he threw it down, and I was carrying it home with an intent to >advertise it".

Dear Lister,s just returned from Darling Harbour where I saw the Tall ships again. It makes you wonder that even if our forbears were short how they got all those people and stores into the ships for so many months in the voyage out here. I once went on an ocean liner and that was not the best thing when we had a storm so what they must have gone through in those tiny ships. The harbour and stretts, trains etc. were a sea of Australian flags waved by many nationalities. Sandra ----- Original Message ----- From: <miworrad@optusnet.com.au> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 4:31 PM Subject: Re: [PJ] Today's Age > Hi, Grahame, > > There was an article about the project in today's Sydney Morning Herald as > well. That article said that a team ranging from historians to > epidimiologists, with the help of amateur genealogists, will be helping to > uncover convict stories. Hopefully it will not just be Tassie. I've > contacted the site to ask them about it. > > Regards > > Merril > > > >> Grahame & Rosslyn Thom <grthom@bigpond.com> wrote: >> >> Its still there Barbara - try by copy and paste into the internet as >> the wrapping around is probably the problem. >> >> The article kind of indicates Tassie is first so I thought NSW could >> be included in the future. I had not looked at the founders web site >> because of the date. >> >> The other interesting thing is that there are no family historians on >> the Project Team, all academics. >> >> cheers >> >> Grahame >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Happy Australia Day! I descend from Joseph WRIGHT arrived Scarborough 1788 At the age of 17, Joseph's life was to take on a new direction. He had been apprehended in Sloan Square, Chelsea in the possession of stolen lead, tried and found guilty. "..feloniously stealing on the 6th May, two hundred and eighteen pounds weight of lead, value 40s belonging to William Rothwell, fixed to a certain building there situate against the statute" In defence Joseph replied " I was going to Knightsbridge, a man had this basket, and he threw it down, and I was carrying it home with an intent to advertise it". His good intentions did little for his case. He was found guilty and sentenced to 7 years transportation. He married Eleanor/Ellen GOTT (Neptune 2nd fleet) and was among the first settlers of the Hawkesbury area. Joseph died in 1811 and is buried the Old Sydney Burial Ground (St Phillips) which is now the site of Sydney Town Hall. Kind Regards Kevin Wilson Brisbane Qld

Hello Lesley and Listers. HAPPY AUSTRALIA DAY!! I am directly descended from a First Fleet Marine ( who married a Second Fleet convict). My husband is directly descended from First Fleeter Jacob BELLETT-Scarborough. Regards Judith O'Shea

Hello is the article about Darwin .. i am looking on the net not in thr paper itself Michelle Herbert Bateau Bay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grahame & Rosslyn Thom" <grthom@bigpond.com> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 2:53 PM Subject: [PJ] Today's Age > Hi all > > I hope everyone is enjoying Australia Day. > > On page 3 of today's Age there is an article about "Proud convict > past an evoluntionary lesson for savory Darwin. > > The bottom line of this story is that the University of Tasmania, > together with the University of Melbourne will be collecting stories > as they "want to uncover these rich personal stories and migrate them > into the historical record." At the end of the article it state > "Visit www.foundersandsurvivors.org - details of "your convict" can > be registered on the site from February 10." > > It looks like a good project, but the one thing that annoys me is the > comment "Their post-convict lives are not part of the public record. > Instead, they are hidden away in private family archives - a secret > history." Have they not heard of Lesley and all the listers on this > mailing list???? > > Have a read of the article at > > http://www.theage.com.au/national/proud-convict-past-an-evolutionary- > lesson-for-snooty-darwin-20090125-7pgq.html > > cheers > > Grahame > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Keep looking I had a simular problem with a relli turned out he had a wife Margaret with whom he was having children with and a maid Margaret with whom he was also having children with at the same time! we worked out what was going on after purchasing all the childrens death certificates and one of the Margarets ----- Original Message ----- From: "Minuet" <minuet9@internode.on.net> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 5:01 PM Subject: Re: [PJ] Kenny?Briggs > Thanks John, > > I actually spent last night entering each event into an > excel spreadsheet in order to do just what you suggest. > It highlights the tendency to baptise the children of the previous > marriage on the day of the new marriage(!!!) and that there must be > more than one woman involved but has not shown me anything > to help separate them as yet. > The only thing it has raised is even more confusion > > In Feb 1841 Margaret Kenny marries Thomas Briggs. > In Sep 1841 Sarah is born (this bdate given in her 1842 baptism) > In both Feb & Nov 1841 Margaret is tried for stealing getting 6 > months for the first and 7 years for the second. > In Dec 1841 she is transported to VDL. > In Oct 1844 Margaret gets permission to marry Thomas COLLINS > In Nov 1844 Alice Briggs child of Margaret & Thomas is baptised aged > 13 months (so born after my Margaret left NSW) > In Nov 1844 Henry Briggs son of Margaret and Thomas is baptised aged 3 > years. > Meaning he was born in 1841. > Now if he has JUST turned three, then he was born in Oct 1841, if > he's about to turn 4 then he was born anytime after Oct 1840, > so either while she was expecting Sarah, or within weeks before her > conception. Being baptised separately seems to indicate that the > Margaret and Thomas Briggs who had Sarah are different to the > Margaret and Thomas Briggs who had Henry and Alice. > That Margaret then marries Collins and the children and the marriage > are Catholic.... all the other events are presbyterian. > I think my brain may explode. > ;) > > Happy Australia Day > Minuet > > > > > At 04:33 PM 26/01/2009, you wrote: >>Hi Lesley & Minuet, >> I have been following this confusing >> trail with interest. >> It occurred to me that a lot of time and effort has gone >> into the NAMES involved. Has anyone tried to list the NUMERALS of >> the dates to see if they disclose any anomalies? It is so easy to >> transcribe a date wrongly or read it wrongly when it is in handwritten >> script. >> Just an idea but it may reveal where a further error may lie. >>Kind regards, >> John Chapman >> Werris Creek. >>First Railway Town in Australia. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi I am been reading the story of your family ... Minuet you have one of those jigsaw puzzles that have become so jumbled ... but i am sure that it will all fall into place. Please keep me informed on it ..it has been great reading Michelle Herbert Bateau Bay NSW AUS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Minuet" <minuet9@internode.on.net> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 5:01 PM Subject: Re: [PJ] Kenny?Briggs > Thanks John, > > I actually spent last night entering each event into an > excel spreadsheet in order to do just what you suggest. > It highlights the tendency to baptise the children of the previous > marriage on the day of the new marriage(!!!) and that there must be > more than one woman involved but has not shown me anything > to help separate them as yet. > The only thing it has raised is even more confusion > > In Feb 1841 Margaret Kenny marries Thomas Briggs. > In Sep 1841 Sarah is born (this bdate given in her 1842 baptism) > In both Feb & Nov 1841 Margaret is tried for stealing getting 6 > months for the first and 7 years for the second. > In Dec 1841 she is transported to VDL. > In Oct 1844 Margaret gets permission to marry Thomas COLLINS > In Nov 1844 Alice Briggs child of Margaret & Thomas is baptised aged > 13 months (so born after my Margaret left NSW) > In Nov 1844 Henry Briggs son of Margaret and Thomas is baptised aged 3 > years. > Meaning he was born in 1841. > Now if he has JUST turned three, then he was born in Oct 1841, if > he's about to turn 4 then he was born anytime after Oct 1840, > so either while she was expecting Sarah, or within weeks before her > conception. Being baptised separately seems to indicate that the > Margaret and Thomas Briggs who had Sarah are different to the > Margaret and Thomas Briggs who had Henry and Alice. > That Margaret then marries Collins and the children and the marriage > are Catholic.... all the other events are presbyterian. > I think my brain may explode. > ;) > > Happy Australia Day > Minuet > > > > > At 04:33 PM 26/01/2009, you wrote: >>Hi Lesley & Minuet, >> I have been following this confusing >> trail with interest. >> It occurred to me that a lot of time and effort has gone >> into the NAMES involved. Has anyone tried to list the NUMERALS of >> the dates to see if they disclose any anomalies? It is so easy to >> transcribe a date wrongly or read it wrongly when it is in handwritten >> script. >> Just an idea but it may reveal where a further error may lie. >>Kind regards, >> John Chapman >> Werris Creek. >>First Railway Town in Australia. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello All, On behalf of my clan and I, we all wish you and yours, a happy and safe 221st Australia Day. Regards / Thanks, Steven L. CARR Proud decendant of Robert FORRESTER (1st Fleet) Nancy L. CARR (nee WILSON) Proud Decendant of William WILSON (Pt. Macquarie, 1822) Proud Members of the Liverpool Genealogy Society www.lgs.org.au Proud Memebers of the Dubbo & District Family History Society Inc http://www.dubbofamilyhistory.org.au/ CARR Clan Homepage http://members.optuszoo.com.au/stevenc123

Thanks John, I actually spent last night entering each event into an excel spreadsheet in order to do just what you suggest. It highlights the tendency to baptise the children of the previous marriage on the day of the new marriage(!!!) and that there must be more than one woman involved but has not shown me anything to help separate them as yet. The only thing it has raised is even more confusion In Feb 1841 Margaret Kenny marries Thomas Briggs. In Sep 1841 Sarah is born (this bdate given in her 1842 baptism) In both Feb & Nov 1841 Margaret is tried for stealing getting 6 months for the first and 7 years for the second. In Dec 1841 she is transported to VDL. In Oct 1844 Margaret gets permission to marry Thomas COLLINS In Nov 1844 Alice Briggs child of Margaret & Thomas is baptised aged 13 months (so born after my Margaret left NSW) In Nov 1844 Henry Briggs son of Margaret and Thomas is baptised aged 3 years. Meaning he was born in 1841. Now if he has JUST turned three, then he was born in Oct 1841, if he's about to turn 4 then he was born anytime after Oct 1840, so either while she was expecting Sarah, or within weeks before her conception. Being baptised separately seems to indicate that the Margaret and Thomas Briggs who had Sarah are different to the Margaret and Thomas Briggs who had Henry and Alice. That Margaret then marries Collins and the children and the marriage are Catholic.... all the other events are presbyterian. I think my brain may explode. ;) Happy Australia Day Minuet At 04:33 PM 26/01/2009, you wrote: >Hi Lesley & Minuet, > I have been following this confusing > trail with interest. > It occurred to me that a lot of time and effort has gone > into the NAMES involved. Has anyone tried to list the NUMERALS of > the dates to see if they disclose any anomalies? It is so easy to > transcribe a date wrongly or read it wrongly when it is in handwritten script. > Just an idea but it may reveal where a further error may lie. >Kind regards, > John Chapman > Werris Creek. >First Railway Town in Australia.

Thank you Grahame - I found it. Barbara. :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grahame & Rosslyn Thom" <grthom@bigpond.com> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [PJ] Today's Age > Its still there Barbara - try by copy and paste into the internet as > the wrapping around is probably the problem. > > The article kind of indicates Tassie is first so I thought NSW could > be included in the future. I had not looked at the founders web site > because of the date. > > The other interesting thing is that there are no family historians on > the Project Team, all academics. > > cheers > > Grahame > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Lesley & Minuet, I have been following this confusing trail with interest. It occurred to me that a lot of time and effort has gone into the NAMES involved. Has anyone tried to list the NUMERALS of the dates to see if they disclose any anomalies? It is so easy to transcribe a date wrongly or read it wrongly when it is in handwritten script. Just an idea but it may reveal where a further error may lie. Kind regards, John Chapman Werris Creek. First Railway Town in Australia.

Hi, Grahame, There was an article about the project in today's Sydney Morning Herald as well. That article said that a team ranging from historians to epidimiologists, with the help of amateur genealogists, will be helping to uncover convict stories. Hopefully it will not just be Tassie. I've contacted the site to ask them about it. Regards Merril > Grahame & Rosslyn Thom <grthom@bigpond.com> wrote: > > Its still there Barbara - try by copy and paste into the internet as > the wrapping around is probably the problem. > > The article kind of indicates Tassie is first so I thought NSW could > be included in the future. I had not looked at the founders web site > because of the date. > > The other interesting thing is that there are no family historians on > the Project Team, all academics. > > cheers > > Grahame > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Its still there Barbara - try by copy and paste into the internet as the wrapping around is probably the problem. The article kind of indicates Tassie is first so I thought NSW could be included in the future. I had not looked at the founders web site because of the date. The other interesting thing is that there are no family historians on the Project Team, all academics. cheers Grahame

Mary Spencer was the 1st love of James Squire "Charlotte" 1788 after he arrived in the colony. MARY SPENCER (c1768-) Mary Spencer b c 1768 from Formby, Lancaster charged Wigan on 9 October 1786 with theft at Crosby of one cotton and one black silk handkerchief a green quilted Tammy (glazed material party wool) petticoat and a black silk cloak. She received sentence of only five years transportation, and a contrite clerk wrote on 25 January 1787 to Lord Sydney to correct his error in recording it as seven years. "I could not forgive myself I to be the instrument of the poor Woman's being deprived of her liberty even for a moment. Mary was only 18 when she embarked directly on "Prince of Wales" at Portsmouth by the turnkey of Lancaster gaol on 8 April 1787, together with Ellen Wainwright and Eleanor Fraser (qqv). On the shop she bore a daughter Mary (qv) who would survive until 5 April 1788 and be buried at Sydney Cove. In November 1789 Mary was sent to Norfolk by Supply. There in February 1791 she was provide with a sow for her herself and her son Francis (born August 1790, fathered by James Squire, qv), and sold a sow from the litter on 7 May 1792. On 21 September that year she left Norfolk Island by Atlantic, evidently leaving her son behind. David Collins (qv) wrote on 30 March 1793 to Captain Francis Grose, then in control at Port Jackson, saying there was no objection to the child remaining where he was since he was likely to receive better care there than at Port Jackson. In 1796 the child Francis was marked "not on the supply list" as in fact he was not. The boy was sent to Sydney where he enlisted in the NSW Corps in June 1797. By September 1808 he was described as being dark complexion and hazel eyes, light brown hair, 5ft 11ins, aged 18 years and one month. His natural father James Squire, remained interested in the boy, mentioning him in his will. Mary married John Palmer, private in the NSW Corps (per Neptune1790), at St. Phillip's, on 10 August 1797, following the birth of their daughter Ann in Sydney on 4 June 1796. A second daughter Elizabeth was born in Sydney on 12 October 1799 surviving to May 1800. Palmer transferred to the Invalid Company in 1810 and was living alone in 1828. He died in1832. No record of his wife after 1800 has been confrimed but she was described as deceased in James Squire's will of April 1822. Cheers Rhonda

Hi Valerie, Thank you Governor Phillip was certainly one of our better Governors and his job made all that more difficult, arriving as they did with no infrastructure in place. regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of valerie.williams Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 3:23 PM To: PJ Convicts Subject: Re: [PJ] A man in a thousand. Dear Lesley, I agree with you about Captain Arthur Phillip, he really is the Father of Our Nation and doesn't receive the recognition he deserves. Thank you for taking the time to type up the information from HRA for our list. I really enjoyed it Valerie Williams Mollymook NSW

Yes, I read it this morning in the SMH...... and have a few thoughts that I will keep to myself for the present. One error in the report and written by someone who obviously has not researched convicts... "A great missing link in Australian history, however, is what came after many convicts received their "tickets of leave" from penal servitude" In my opinion that should read Certificates of Freedom and not tickets of leave. As you are all aware a TOL only gave you a certain amount of freedom but you had to stay in the district noted on the TOL and were mustered on a regular basis and were still classified as a convict. regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Grahame & Rosslyn Thom Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 2:54 PM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: [PJ] Today's Age Hi all I hope everyone is enjoying Australia Day. On page 3 of today's Age there is an article about "Proud convict past an evoluntionary lesson for savory Darwin. The bottom line of this story is that the University of Tasmania, together with the University of Melbourne will be collecting stories as they "want to uncover these rich personal stories and migrate them into the historical record." At the end of the article it state "Visit www.foundersandsurvivors.org - details of "your convict" can be registered on the site from February 10." It looks like a good project, but the one thing that annoys me is the comment "Their post-convict lives are not part of the public record. Instead, they are hidden away in private family archives - a secret history." Have they not heard of Lesley and all the listers on this mailing list???? Have a read of the article at http://www.theage.com.au/national/proud-convict-past-an-evolutionary- lesson-for-snooty-darwin-20090125-7pgq.html cheers Grahame

Happy Australia Day Listers. Grahame, regarding your post re the article in today's Age - I wonder why this research is only being done on Tasmanian convicts. What about all the information we have on this List about Port Jackson convicts? I had a look at the website you gave www.foundersandsurvivors.org and tried to look at the article in the Age but the page is unavailable! Thank you Lesley for the story on Governor Phillip, it is very interesting, I really enjoy reading these excerpts which you take the trouble to type up. Barbara In hot, hot Canberra.

Dear Lesley, I agree with you about Captain Arthur Phillip, he really is the Father of Our Nation and doesn't receive the recognition he deserves. Thank you for taking the time to type up the information from HRA for our list. I really enjoyed it Valerie Williams Mollymook NSW > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 19:30:23 +1100 > From: "Lesley Uebel" <ckennedy@bigpond.net.au> > Subject: [PJ] A man in the thousand...... (Part 2) > To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <OGEELKEHANIHLMOJNLCJCEDCPPAA.ckennedy@bigpond.net.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > ....continued > > The labours of Governor Phillip may be divided into sections - the > foundation of > the settlement and the establishment of the government. After the > selection of

Hi Remember that when convicts applied for permission to marry they had to apply using the name on the Indent...... otherwise it was rejected.... although I guess a few did get through The difference between the two Margarets noted in the Sydney Gazette is that one was said to be free and the other not. I don't know who the other person was.... but I have found that the newspapers often got the names wrong :)) they still do Female Factory Index--Parramatta 1826--1848 on microfiche by Joan Reese. regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Minuet Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 2:14 PM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PJ] KENNY, BRIGGS & help pls Hi again, At 01:20 PM 26/01/2009, you wrote: The Sydney Gazette of 20 February 1841 gives her name as Margaret McKenny, REE - theft again :) The bottom of that same column in the Sydney gazette is a Margaret Kenny who rec'd the exact same sentence - so she could be either of them. :/ >She did spend time in the Female Factory so those records may hold something. >You have to be careful using the Female Factory Index as the names have not >been matched against the Indents...... and some women, although >still convicts, >are listed under their husbands surname. Sydney female factory? Where would I find these records please, the only ones I've come across stop around 1828. >It is interesting that once free and then convicted in 1841 her >maiden name was >used. As a free person one would think that, if married, her husbands surname >would be used. And in the marriages too - each remarriage is done under the maiden name not the widowed name. (Mind you I had another search last night and I can't seem to kill off any of her husbands, she must have been adeot at hiding the bodies *G*) cheers Minuet ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi all I hope everyone is enjoying Australia Day. On page 3 of today's Age there is an article about "Proud convict past an evoluntionary lesson for savory Darwin. The bottom line of this story is that the University of Tasmania, together with the University of Melbourne will be collecting stories as they "want to uncover these rich personal stories and migrate them into the historical record." At the end of the article it state "Visit www.foundersandsurvivors.org - details of "your convict" can be registered on the site from February 10." It looks like a good project, but the one thing that annoys me is the comment "Their post-convict lives are not part of the public record. Instead, they are hidden away in private family archives - a secret history." Have they not heard of Lesley and all the listers on this mailing list???? Have a read of the article at http://www.theage.com.au/national/proud-convict-past-an-evolutionary- lesson-for-snooty-darwin-20090125-7pgq.html cheers Grahame