Thanks Ray, a bit of acknowledgement for the original inhabitants. regards Gayle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Fairall" <rayfairall@gmail.com> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 2:36 PM Subject: Re: [PJ] A man in a thousand. > The Aboriginals of the greater Sydney region probably had a more > nutritious > and varied diet than most in Europe at the time. Studies in the Northern > Territory in the 1930's showed that the Aboriginals there were healthier, > happier and better fed than the average member of the English Working > class. > > The culture of the local tribes which had been sustained since the seas > rose > to their present heights, was destroyed by disease and alcohol within a > decade. > > Ray. > > (Descendant of John Randall and John Martin, Alexander 1788).. > > On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Barbara Eglitis > <muffy15@optusnet.com.au>wrote: > >> Obviously! Do you think they could all live in bark humpys and live on >> goannas? >> >> Muffy. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "COLIN BORROTT-MALONEY" <colinbm1@bigpond.com> >> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 12:59 AM >> Subject: Re: [PJ] A man in a thousand. >> >> >> > The infrastructure was already in place for the original inhabitants. >> > Everything that was needed to sustain life was already in place for >> > them >> ! >> > It was the white mans burden that had to be carried out to here ! >> > Cheers >> > Col >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Lesley Uebel" <ckennedy@bigpond.net.au> >> > To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> >> > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 3:05 PM >> > Subject: Re: [PJ] A man in a thousand. >> > >> > >> >> Hi Valerie, Thank you >> >> >> >> Governor Phillip was certainly one of our better Governors and his job >> >> made all >> >> that more difficult, arriving as they did with no infrastructure in >> >> place. >> >> >> >> regards >> >> >> >> >> >> Lesley Uebel >> >> mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au >> >> CLAIM A CONVICT >> >> http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com >> >> [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of >> >> valerie.williams >> >> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 3:23 PM >> >> To: PJ Convicts >> >> Subject: Re: [PJ] A man in a thousand. >> >> >> >> >> >> Dear Lesley, >> >> >> >> I agree with you about Captain Arthur Phillip, he really is the Father >> of >> >> Our Nation and doesn't receive the recognition he deserves. >> >> >> >> Thank you for taking the time to type up the information from HRA for >> our >> >> list. I really enjoyed it >> >> >> >> Valerie Williams >> >> Mollymook NSW >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> >> AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' >> >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> __________ NOD32 3797 (20090124) Information __________ >> >> >> >> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> > 'unsubscribe' >> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi all, Does anyone know who John Jones "Randolph" tried Sussex, Lewes 19/3/1847 married after arrival NSW, or any remarriages? His TOL was Mudgee District. He is listed under NSW Archives- Index to Convict Exiles 1846-50. Any information re this John Jones appreciated. Thanks, Susan in NSW.

Thanks to all who helped. Kings County makes sense - I saw the gs as a yo - Mayo (or Sligo whch didn't fit) being the only one I could think of with a tail letter second last - but then old Ireland isn't my strong point, I guess I'm about to get better acquainted with it now :) I couldn't for the life of me think of a name that would be abbreviated as Kath n - stupid me, Kathleen. NP - native place - strange how clear it is after I've been told *G* Thanks again, and kudos for being one of the most helpful lists around Min

Thanks Grahame, I did look at a map - but I thought I'd check - after all she is supposed to be married with kids in Maitland when she leaves for VDL. Are the directories of everyone, I thought they were more businesses / professionals? If they include all the bigger households then yes, the chances are that is the Brownlow she was working for. LOL is laughing out loud. cheers Min

At 08:26 AM 28/01/2009, you wrote: Ray Thanks for the additional note and reference. My only reading of his unintended appointment as governor was in the 1926 edition of the Australian Encyclopedia. The majority of histories about his time in Australia don't mention that his appointment was accidental. Gary ==================== >Macquarie was ALWAYS very keen on pushing himself forward for >promotions for himself and his "family" members, at every opportunity; and >he ACTIVELY canvassed for this position once he knew that it was >becoming available. > >Malcolm ELLIS's "Lachlan Macquarie: His Life, Adventures, and Times". _________________________________ Gary Luke ~ gary@feraltek.com.au Sydney, Australia

Hi Minuet Maitland is a fair distance north of Sydney, maybe 200 kms plus, use a map site through google such as multimap. There were no other Brownlows listed in the directories. Could check the 1841 census (with its limitations) - I doubt many convicts would have a maid, check the Col Sec indexes for other Brownlows. What does LOL mean? - not needed. Grahame On 27/01/2009, at 11:06 PM, Minuet wrote: > Yes I thought it looked like Sydney too. except for the last letter. > That's not close to Maitland area (is it?) > Of course there may be other Brownlows in NSW.... she was a laundry > maid so could have worked for anyone. > Thanks > > Just once I'd like one of her records to provide an answer instead > of a dozen questions LOL > > > > At 10:52 PM 27/01/2009, you wrote: >> Hi Minuet >> >> The last word looks like Sydney in the first reference >> >> In a 1832 Directory Richard Beownlow was an Innkeeper, Kent St, >> Sydney >> In a 1844/45 Sydney Directory Richard Brownlow was a wine and spirit >> merchant 366 George street, private residence 104 Elizabeth Street. >> >> cheers >> >> Grahame > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT- > JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Gary: Macquarie was ALWAYS very keen on pushing himself forward for promotions for himself and his "family" members, at every opportunity; and he ACTIVELY canvassed for this position once he knew that it was becoming available. I would very strongly recommend that anyone who is interested in the Macquarie era of our history, should read Malcolm ELLIS's wonderfully well-researched and well-written biography of him: "Lachlan Macquarie: His Life, Adventures, and Times". One of the things which this book reveals, is how the positions which he held in India, equipped him extremely well to be the governor of NSW. ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Luke" <gary@feraltek.com.au> ... It's not well know that Macquarie wasn't intended to be the governor. > Colonel Nightingale was selected as governor, with Macquarie only in > command of the military. In April 1809 Nightingale fell ill and > resigned. As the least embarrasing solution for the colonial office > Macquarie was hastily promoted in May, a fortnight before the ships > set sail. So instead of spending only a few years as a military > officer in one of Britain's colonies, suddenly without preparation he > was thrown into governing the whole colony for 22 years.

At 08:42 PM 27/01/2009, you wrote: >Lachlan Macquarie is one of my favourite Governors and one of the better ones. It's not well know that Macquarie wasn't intended to be the governor. Colonel Nightingale was selected as governor, with Macquarie only in command of the military. In April 1809 Nightingale fell ill and resigned. As the least embarrasing solution for the colonial office Macquarie was hastily promoted in May, a fortnight before the ships set sail. So instead of spending only a few years as a military officer in one of Britain's colonies, suddenly without preparation he was thrown into governing the whole colony for 22 years. Gary _________________________________ Gary Luke ~ gary@feraltek.com.au Sydney, Australia

At 08:12 PM 27/01/2009, you wrote: >Without wishing to minimise Gov Phillips' magnificent achievements in a >starving new colony, my money has always been on Lachlan Macquarie I'd like to put in a reminder about Gov Bourke (1832-37), without detracting from the superb and inspired work of Phillip (1788-92) and Macquarie (1810-21). Bourke was the bridging governor between the period of administering convicts and the type of freedoms which we still live with. Macquarie permitted individual convicts to flourish, but a lot of that was rolled back after Bigge's report, first by Brisbane (1822-25) followed by Darling (1826-31). It's during his period that many of the major regional town centres were established, with local councils and legislative representatives. Bourke allowed autonomous institutions and organisations of free association to form. By the middle of his time there were seven newspapers in Sydney, including the Sydney Herald. The freedom to form organisations and the press freedoms were the platforms which allowed the general public to force the end of convict transportation. Only one statue in the city is due to an initiative from the public, and was paid for exclusively by donations from the public - the statue of Gov Bourke in front of the Mitchel Library. He received recognition in his own time from all levels of society, but he has been a bit neglected in our time. Phillip, Macquarie & Bourke - thank you. Gary _________________________________ Gary Luke ~ gary@feraltek.com.au Sydney, Australia

On 27/01/2009, at 9:57 PM, Minuet wrote: > I hope Lesley will indulge me - this is a VDL convict record, but > she was convicted in Sydney! :) I'm hoping people might recognise > some of the places mentioned. Minuet ?? for larceny ?/ Stealing meat from a dwelling house it was found in my house I was a servant to Mr Brownlow at Sydney One brother Peter Kenny at Native Place Sister Kathleen at Native Place Born Kings County Ireland (now County Offlay and still in Ireland) regards Jeff

hello Minuet it looks like ....................... ?? larceny to RC - No - stealing meal from a dwelling house it was found in my house I was a servant to Mr Brownlow at Sydney ''''''''''''''''''''''''' Regards Alan

Yes I thought it looked like Sydney too. except for the last letter. That's not close to Maitland area (is it?) Of course there may be other Brownlows in NSW.... she was a laundry maid so could have worked for anyone. Thanks Just once I'd like one of her records to provide an answer instead of a dozen questions LOL At 10:52 PM 27/01/2009, you wrote: >Hi Minuet > >The last word looks like Sydney in the first reference > >In a 1832 Diecrory Richard Beownlow was an Innkeeper, Kent St, Sydney >In a 1844/45 Sydney Directory Richard Brownlow was a wine and spirit >merchant 366 George street, private residence 104 Elizabeth Street. > >cheers > >Grahame

Hi Minuet The last word looks like Sydney in the first reference In a 1832 Diecrory Richard Beownlow was an Innkeeper, Kent St, Sydney In a 1844/45 Sydney Directory Richard Brownlow was a wine and spirit merchant 366 George street, private residence 104 Elizabeth Street. cheers Grahame On 27/01/2009, at 9:57 PM, Minuet wrote: > I hope Lesley will indulge me - this is a VDL convict record, but > she was convicted in Sydney! :) I'm hoping people might recognise > some of the places mentioned. > > http://www.users.on.net/~minuet/file/kenny036e.jpg > ?? for larceny > ?/ > stealing meat from a dwelling house it was found in my house I was > a servant to Mr Brownlow? at ???? > > (Lesley - note she is now a RC for religion!!!! > so, younger, shorter and a catholic!) > > > http://www.users.on.net/~minuet/file/kenny037e.jpg > centre entry " One brother Peter Kenny at ....... . > Sister ...... at ......... > > (this bit is really exciting, now all I have to do is find an irish > born Margaret Kenny with a brother of Peter... shouldn't be too > hard... right? *G*) > > http://www.users.on.net/~minuet/file/kenny038e.jpg > bottom entry "born .......... county Ireland" > (I know what it looks like, but the first letter isn't similar to the > same letter eslewhere on the page....) > > Minuet > > > > > > > ---------- > *Earth is the insane asylum for the universe* > > ---------- > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT- > JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I didn't want to influence people - with good reason, - your reading is very different to mine ;) thanks Min At 10:24 PM 27/01/2009, you wrote: >Hello Minuet. > >You did not say what it was that you thought this looks like. > >For me it reads as Born King's County, Ireland. > >ray

Can we please stop this discussion now as I really do not want to unsubscribe another lister. ... and for that person who said that my reply about Governor Macquarie did not mention convicts and was therefore off topic perhaps you have a lot to learn about convicts to PJ. Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au

I hope Lesley will indulge me - this is a VDL convict record, but she was convicted in Sydney! :) I'm hoping people might recognise some of the places mentioned. http://www.users.on.net/~minuet/file/kenny036e.jpg ?? for larceny ?/ stealing meat from a dwelling house it was found in my house I was a servant to Mr Brownlow? at ???? (Lesley - note she is now a RC for religion!!!! so, younger, shorter and a catholic!) http://www.users.on.net/~minuet/file/kenny037e.jpg centre entry " One brother Peter Kenny at ....... . Sister ...... at ......... (this bit is really exciting, now all I have to do is find an irish born Margaret Kenny with a brother of Peter... shouldn't be too hard... right? *G*) http://www.users.on.net/~minuet/file/kenny038e.jpg bottom entry "born .......... county Ireland" (I know what it looks like, but the first letter isn't similar to the same letter eslewhere on the page....) Minuet ---------- *Earth is the insane asylum for the universe* ----------

What the PJ list can do for one! I arrived home hot & brain tired after family history duty at Katoomba Library, opened the PJ list and beheld Betty's transcript of Lydia's court case followed by more from Marg M & Shirley. Thank you all. Research into the Lydia (let's call her Lydia) & John BENN/John MACDONALD story is one of the cases where nothing is straightforward. Soldier Michel GRIFFIN, wife Mary nee AMOS, 2 children Ann & Nicholas plus Thomas born at sea, arrived on the "Britannia" in October 1791. Lydia was the only one colonial born. She was baptised as Elliza GRIFFIN (correct - 2 Ls) at St Phillips on 4th March 1794. This would be impossible to find not only because of the different forename & unknown surname when she married John BENN but it is in NSW BDM index as GRIFFITHS. (V1794278 3A/1794; V1794354 1A/1794) Lydia's mother, Mary, died on 2nd September 1794, according to David Collins in his ‘Authoritative Account of the English Colony in New South Wales’ she killed herself by drinking. I guess she could not cope with the young family in the harsh conditions of those early days. How Lydia was cared for is unknown but we surmise her sister Ann, then about 10, cared for her 2 younger brothers & Lydia. In 1800 Ann married Thomas Bates, a convict of the Neptune 1790. Presumably Lydia may still have been in Ann's care. John BENN, convict of the Gorgon 1791, was also known as John VENHAM or VENMAN but nicknamed 'big Ben". True name - who knows? He was working 30 acres in the Pitt Town area in 1800, with increases in 1802 & 1806 & with others became involved with shipping, whaling and sealing also. Benn was seen as a horse fancier and a hard taskmaster who became lordly with affluence. John Benn & Eliza Griffin (by those names) married at St Matthew's, C or E, Windsor on 16th August 1814. (V18141663 3A/1814) John was killed in an accident, from memory on the Sydney Road, when thrown from his horse on 10th December 1815 (newspaper report I do not have at hand at the moment) & Hawkesbury gossip was that Lydia was implicated in a plot to replace Benn by Macdonald who was assigned to John Benn. I agree Benn's death in not in the BDM index, but had not thought about a probate index entry. Thanks for the suggestion. From memory he is either buried, or there is a memorial to him, on the Macdonald crypt in St Matthew's, Windsor. I took photos when I was "introducing" three young granddaughters to their 6X great grandfather Michael Griffin on the Edwards line though Lydia's sister Ann. Unfortunately I have not every plaque in my photos. I, too, have read that Macdonald Valley is named after John who was interested in exploring the adjacent region. He was never a bushranger if you take the modern meaning of the term. He certainly had no need to hide from the constabulary as far as I can find out. Joan Edwards, Blue Mountains NSW

Hello Minuet. You did not say what it was that you thought this looks like. For me it reads as Born King's County, Ireland. ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Minuet" <minuet9@internode.on.net> > http://www.users.on.net/~minuet/file/kenny038e.jpg > bottom entry "born .......... county Ireland" > (I know what it looks like, but the first letter isn't similar to the > same letter eslewhere on the page....) > > Minuet

Hi Frank Lachlan Macquarie is one of my favourite Governors and one of the better ones. He arrived some 20 years after the First Fleet, so his job in some respects was not as difficult as that of Governor Phillip, as Phillip had to help organise what was required transporting all of those people and supplies to a virtually unknown country. Phillip also did not have ships arrive at regular intervals bringing what was needed. Governor Macquarie was certainly a man I admire and I have made no secret of that over the years on this list. He had an organised mind but also had to deal with a few of the military and others who did not like to be told :)) and the back stabbers. He achieved a lot as can be seen from what he had his hand in building during his years. One of the few criticisms I have of Macquarie is the number of places he named after himself, his wife, his home, his wife's home etc etc >From a document I put together many years ago and that I called "The Final Straw" - Macquarie when sending his second resignation to Earl Bathurst said: "After the arduous and harassing duties I have had to perform in the administration of this Colony for now upwards of ten years, the constant counteraction I have experienced here to my best measures, and the cruel and base calumnies circulated to the prejudice of my character at home, I must confess, my Lord, I am now heartily tired of my situation here, and anxiously wish to retire from public life as soon as possible." Governor Phillips also had to send a number of resignations to London before his was accepted. Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Frank Murray Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 8:12 PM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PJ] AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS Digest, Vol 4, Issue 32 > 7. Re: . (Lesley Uebel) Without wishing to minimise Gov Phillips' magnificent achievements in a starving new colony, my money has always been on Lachlan Macquarie as the one who lifted a rebellious, poorly managed Colony, controlled by the NSW (Rum) Corps and turned it into a society where, among other things,emancipists had a chance. H is achievements are recognised in Governor Marie Bashir's magnificent (in delivery and content) address on Australia Day. Go to http://www.abc.net.au/rn/breakfast/stories/2009/2470703.htm for text and/or repeat. frank M

Dear Lesley and all Whilst I am sure there may be some of us on this list that agree with the comments made by Col, I feel these discussion lines are not appropriate for the primary purpose of the Port Jackson convict list. Lesley, please correct me if I am wrong. If Colin has direct convict ancestors who had interaction with aboriginals then of course I would love to hear his stories, as many of you know my first fleeter most certainly did. Environmental issues regarding our country and how aboriginals addressed this issue again is off topic, respectfully, please can we keep to our core list objectives, that of Port Jackson convicts, thank you. And, by the way, as a scientist I would dispute the second sentence in the below quote in any case. Regards Julie > If we were really serious about looking after Australia, the enviroment & > the planet. > The aboriginals lived here for thousands of years with little impact on > the > enviroment. >