Hi, I have a new version and one of those old gorgeous handwritten certificates and it states NSW but as Minuet says the informant might not be so informed and there was the stigma of convict descent. cheers Gayle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brent Richards" <brent.richards77@gmail.com> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:11 PM Subject: Re: [PJ] Help - Duggan William > Hi Gayle > On one of my branches, three of the children's birth certificates list the > father's birthplace as Victoria; the other three list it as South America. > Have you considered obtaining another sibling's birth certificate? > > Silly question, but are you sure the child's birth certificate says > Liverpool "NSW"? Does this information come from a transcription? I say > this > because: > > a) I've seen certificates where you can't tell from the writing whether > the > birthplace says "Victoria" or "Ireland". > b) Liverpool in England had a significant Irish population. > > Regards > Brent > ............................. > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:36:27 +1100 > From: "Gayle Clarke-Wood" <gclarkew@optusnet.com.au> > Subject: [PJ] Help - Duggan William > To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <3D2849D880F847938E73AF160B452220@owner883c056ql> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi > I need help as I keep coming up against brick walls. > > My GGGGgrandfather William Duggan is a mystery and everyone in the family > have put him in the "too hard basket". > > One theory put forward by a cousin is the following: > > Born: 1828 in Clare County,Ireland Travelled: on the Neptune-Arrived 6 > Feb > 1852 in Sydney (is he a convict?) > Occupation: Grooms/Labourer > Occupation: 1856 Sawyer Resided: 1856 in Wattle Flat,via > Bathurst,NSW,Australia > Died: ? > Father: James DUGGAN #23039 > Mother: Margaret (Mrs. James DUGGAN) #23038 > Wife: Mary Jane FINSAKER #22030 Birth name Jane FONSECA Married: 25 Nov > 1856 in Sofala-Church of Christ Anglican Church,NSW,Australia Born: 8 > Jan > 1839 in Parramatta,Sydney,NSW,Australia > Father: Moses FONSECA #23041 Mother: Esther AIKEN #23040 > > BUT.............. > on the birth certificate of one of their children it states he was born in > Liverpool, NSW and at the time of their sons Samuel's birth (1865) he was > 29 > and she was 27. so this discounts the first theory. > > I sent away for what I thought was his death certificate and it was the > wrong one. I am totally confused. If any lister could help I would be > greatly appreciative. > > cheers > > Gayle > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, Yes your right about the informant - Jane (or sometimes known as Mary Jane) William Duggans Wife and mother of the child, whose mark X was on the certificate and this lady alternated between Jane and Mary all the time. : ) cheers Gayle > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

The name Croydon could be what you are after. There is a suburb by that name in Sydney. There may be some connection. Max Have you tried different spellings i.e. Credon, Creedon, Credan etc.. Try swapping the vowels around Hi, has anyone out there come across the name of Cruden? My gt gt gt grandmother had this surname but I cannot find anything about her anywhere. They don't have a marriage certificate or a birthcertificate for their daughter and I cannot find any convicts with the surname either. I looked at this because a lot of the time not being able to find anything was because they were convicts. sorry to waste anyones time if she or her parents weren't. Sandra .

Hi Sandra An approximate time frame would help. Have you tried different spellings i.e. Credon, Creedon, Credan etc.. Try swapping the vowels around I have found the reverse in that I have not been able to find marriages and births because the people concerned were NOT convicts Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of sandra fox Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 10:38 PM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: [PJ] Untraceable relatives. Hi, has anyone out there come across the name of Cruden? My gt gt gt grandmother had this surname but I cannot find anything about her anywhere. They don't have a marriage certificate or a birthcertificate for their daughter and I cannot find any convicts with the surname either. I looked at this because a lot of the time not being able to find anything was because they were convicts. sorry to waste anyones time if she or her parents weren't. Sandra ----- Original Message -----

Hi Listers, Thanks to everyone who has helped with the abovenamed. I am now fairly certain that the fellow who was sent to VDL is the husband of the Bridget who made the application to join her husband in NSW. I thought I might explain why I have been chasing Hugh. I have a Bridget Daboa/Deboe/Taboa arriving Sydney mid 1841, supposedly single and native of Dublin. Bridget married Benjamin Allen in March 1842, and at this stage I haven't been able to determine whether Benjamin was the convict of the Georgiana; but he is of correct age as per marriage registration and convict indent. I have been unable to trace Benjamin and Bridget after early 1854. However, I have information on their two sons, Benjamin and William Allen. Benjamin jnr and William Allen's death registrations indicate that their mother was a Bridget Donohue/Donoghue. I have been wondering whether Bridget may have been the wife of Hugh, who was refused permission of free passage to NSW, and subsequently managed to obtain a passage utilising the bounty scheme. However, when she arrived she found that she was in the wrong place, and I gather would have been required to serve out a period of employment to pay for her passage. I note that Hugh received a conditional pardon in VDL in 1846, and now wonder, if the above scenario is correct, whether Hugh and Bridget got back together. Thanks again, Warren ________________________________________________________________________ AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.

Hi Listers Its my 60th birthday today and I received a book AUSTRALIA'S BIRTHSTAIN - The startling Legacy of the Convict Era by Babette Smith. I also have THE CRIMES OF THE FIRST FLEET CONVICTS by John Cobley. If anyone would like me to look up in either of these books please let me know. I am happy to do so. Pat Mott Central Victoria Researching HAWK, HAWKE, HAWKES, DAVIS, MOTT, GREEN, ANDERSON, RIGG, CAMPBELL, MAC TAGGART, TAGGART, RAIN, CONROY, ROBINSON, HOLGATE, DINES, MARSH On 29/01/2009, at 10:37 PM, sandra fox wrote: > Hi, has anyone out there come across the name of Cruden? My gt gt gt > grandmother had this surname but I cannot find anything about her > anywhere. > They don't have a marriage certificate or a birthcertificate for their > daughter and I cannot find any convicts with the surname either. I > looked > at this because a lot of the time not being able to find anything was > because they were convicts. sorry to waste anyones time if she or her > parents weren't. Sandra > ----- Original Message ----- > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT- > JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi My name is Neisha Gschwend (nee Shrimpton) I am new to this sight and would like to share my Convict ancestor information. My Great,Great,Great,Great Grandmother is Mary Davis/Bishop, Mary was born around 1761, probably at Diddlebury in Shropshire,England,under either the name of Davis or Bishop, both names common in the area. At present nothing has been found on her birth. In 1785 she managed to get herself into trouble by breaking into a house and stealing a copper kettle, and then into another house where she stole a quantity of clothing, and then handed over everything to Ann Davis and Joseph Owen, who both received the stolen property. Whether Ann was a relation or not is not known. Tried and convicted at Shrewsbury on 12th March 1785,Ann Davis was found not guilty but Mary was sentenced to death, a sentence that was changed to seven years of transportation on the 28th December 1785.Almost a year later on the 23rd November 1786 she was sent to the New Goal at Southwark and on 31st January 1787 after going by wagon to Gravend, she was placed on board the Lady Penrhyn.She arrived in the colony on board that ship as part of the First Fleet on the 26th January 1788. On the 18th December 1787 whilst on board the Lady Penrhyn on the way to Australia she fell down the hatchway...."pitched on her head...which being well defended by false hair, rolls etc she sustained no material injury"...reports the official papers. At Sydney on 27th September 1788 she broke a bottle over the head of John Mara who slept in her hut, but only after he had apparently called her a "bitch" in a scuffle with some of the Soldiers. On the 2nd November 1788 at St Phillips Church of England in Sydney she married Samuel Day as Mary Bishop the first time she was to use the name in the Colony, however she did not live long with Samuel for some reason or use the Day name. On the 4th March 1789 she was sent to Norfolk Island on board the "Sirius", her husband Samuel not being sent until 1790 and by then he had a defacto wife Mary Bolton with whom he was to stay with. Mary gave birth to a Daughter, Charlotte in 1791 the father not recorded. Mary and infant daughter Charlotte both left Norfolk Island on board the "Kitty" in March 1793,returning to Sydney. The 1801 list shows her as Mary Davis in Sydney with an expired sentence. Apparently she moved to the Parramatta area, and Rev Samuel Marsden in his muster shows her as a concubine with one illegitimate daughter. He apparently did not consider her legal marriage to Samuel Day as of any consequence. In 1806 she is shown as Mary Bishop, a servant at Government House at Parramatta. She was still at Parramatta when on the 10th May 1809 she leased land in the main Street of Parramatta and on the 16th November a Mary Bishop was granted 30 acres of land at Bringelly, which was probably this Mary Bishop although she appears to have never taken up the grant as she was still in Parramatta in 1811, but this time as Mary Davis, and in 1814 was still as Mary Davis living alone and single at Parramatta. On the 1811 muster her daughter is shown as Charlotte Bishop and as Charlotte Bishop she married James Crabb of the 73rd Regiment at Parramatta on 10th March 1811. Mary was still at Parramatta as Mary Davis in 1822, but managed to go unrecorded in 1825. By 1828 she was then a housekeeper to Joseph Martin at Parramatta, her age given was 63yrs and with her working also for Martin was her eldest grandchild Alexander William Crabb. Around 1833 Charlotte's husband John moved out, owing apparently to the birth of a child to another man, and it was apparently then that Mary Bishop moved to Kurrajong to be with Charlotte and also to have company in her old age. Mary died at Charlotte's home on the 1st January 1839, and she was buried five days later at St Peters Richmond, her age being shown as 80yrs, and a widow. She left behind a daughter and seven grandchildren. Her grave is unmarked, but all evidence points to her daughter Charlotte being buried with her in later years. NORTH RICMOND CEMETERY Sandstone Headstone marked as Charlotte Pently (one word)-Charlottepently Has a 1st Fleet Medallion on it for Mary Davis/ Bishop. Charlotte Bishop Charlotte Bishop was born on Norfolk Island in 1791, the daughter of Mary Davis/Bishop a convict on the First Fleet, and an unknown Father ( possibly Samuel Day ) with her mother Mary she came to Sydney on board the "Kitty" in March 1793. Her Mother was then sent to Parramatta and this is where Charlotte spent her childhood. In 1806 she was with her mother who was working at Government House as a servant, and living by 1809 in the main Street of Parramatta. In 1808 when Charlotte was 17yrs she had a daughter which she called Susannah ( father unknown ). It was in Parramatta that Charlotte met James Crabb, a soldier in the 73rd regiment. On the 1811 muster she was shown as Charlotte Bishop born in the colony and free, at Parramatta. On the 10th March 1811 at St John's Church of England , Parramatta she married James. Their two children were born at Parramatta- Alexander William in 1813 and Mary in 1814. Following the birth of Mary the family moved to Sydney. On the 1814 muster Charlotte is shown as Charlotte Crabb, free and on stores with three children and the wife of James soldier of the 73rd regiment. James seems to disappear from records just after that, and it is not known if he died and his death unrecorded, or if he deserted his family and returned to England at the end of his tour of duty, which is quite possible. Charlotte moved back to her mother's home in Parramatta, and that is where she met Richard Shrimpton, whom she married at St John's Church of England, Parramatta. Apparently accepted as a widow on the 9th August 1819. To Richard she was to have four children, their first child was born at Parramatta, Edward Francis in 1819,they then moved to the farm at Wilberforce were their other three children were born, Charles 1822, Leah 1824 and Richard in 1826. Age was to take its toll on Richard and he died on his farm on the 11th July 1827 and was buried at Wilberforce. On the 22nd December 1828 at St John's Church of England Charlotte married for a third time to John Pentley.(shown in register as Pintla) They moved to North Richmond and their daughter Susannah Jane was born in 1829. In 1833 Charlotte had a daughter Margaret Elizabeth to Frederick Allsop, at this point John no longer seems to be living with Charlotte. It is at this time she moved her family to Kurrajong and her mother Mary Bishop moved in with her probably to help with the small children and to give her comfort in her old age. John died in 1843 and Charlotte lived until the 5th September 1851,when she died in her home at Kurrajong. She was buried three days later at St Peters, Richmond, interred with her mother. Richard Shrimpton September 1787 committed to Reading Gaol Berkshire, charged with stealing a gelding the property of Rob Coster of Hungerford Berkshire at Edingham Hills. Sold the horse at Angel Inn at Woolhampton and took hired chaise to White Hart Inn at Charalan Street (Chilton) Wiltshire, where drunken bragging aroused suspicion. May 1788 reprieved from death sentence. Sent 11th June to Portsmouth and the prison hulk "Lion". On 29th November 1789 embarked on ship "Scarborough" for Botany Bay, arriving Port Jackson June 1790. November 1797 servant, eastern farm grant with no stock. Given pardon for good behaviour November 1799 and received a 50 acre land grant in eastern farm district. 1802 cultivating an acre of wheat, 6 acres Maize and employing 2 free men and a convict. 20th January1805 charged with obtaining permits for the issue of spirits by fraudulently making use of the names of other persons. Committed to the gaol gang. By 1806 sold his land and was a labourer employed by Simeon Lord.1807 farm at Kissing Point up for sale 1st February 1807 moved to Hawkesbury 1822 musters,held.twenty acres of land in Hawkesbury March 1827 farmer at Wilberforce County Cumberland on sons Baptism. I hope you found this information as interesting as I have. Regards, Neisha

Hi, has anyone out there come across the name of Cruden? My gt gt gt grandmother had this surname but I cannot find anything about her anywhere. They don't have a marriage certificate or a birthcertificate for their daughter and I cannot find any convicts with the surname either. I looked at this because a lot of the time not being able to find anything was because they were convicts. sorry to waste anyones time if she or her parents weren't. Sandra ----- Original Message -----

Hi Gayle, Have you spoke to Amanda ? http://tinyurl.com/afq782 Amanda has Mary/Jane's death in 1924 Lithgow... 9260/1924 - DUGGAN MARY J - MOSES & ESTHER - LITHGOW Perhaps Mary's death certificate might shed some light on William's death? Also Tony tonyg@dragnet.com.au was researching the Duggan family back in 1998. I haven't seen Tony for years, so perhaps this email address is no longer valid. Tony seems to think Mary Jane Duggan (c.1896) and might be buried in Maitland Cemetery. From what I can see on-line, I couldn't find William or Mary... http://www.maitland.nsw.gov.au/Heritage/Cemeteries Perhaps a call to Lithgow cemetery to see if Mary Jane Duggan is buried there and if so, is William with her? There is one William Duggan (d.05/07/1923 Anglican) buried at Lithgow, but whether he's yours or not... http://www.council.lithgow.com/cemetery.html Rhonda Turnbull raturn@dragnet.com.au has the Fonseca branch in her tree. Rhonda has been a avid researcher for many years and may be able to shed some light. :) Do you have a copy of William & Mary's marriage certificate? I think Brent's idea of obtaining more children's birth certificates would be a good idea. :) Kind regards, Sherrie. On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:36:27 +1100, Gayle Clarke-Wood <gclarkew@optusnet.com.au> wrote: > Hi > I need help as I keep coming up against brick walls. > > My GGGGgrandfather William Duggan is a mystery and everyone in the > family have put him in the "too hard basket". > > One theory put forward by a cousin is the following: > > Born: 1828 in Clare County,Ireland Travelled: on the Neptune-Arrived > 6 Feb 1852 in Sydney (is he a convict?) > Occupation: Grooms/Labourer > Occupation: 1856 Sawyer Resided: 1856 in Wattle Flat,via > Bathurst,NSW,Australia > Died: ? > Father: James DUGGAN #23039 > Mother: Margaret (Mrs. James DUGGAN) #23038 > Wife: Mary Jane FINSAKER #22030 Birth name Jane FONSECA Married: 25 > Nov 1856 in Sofala-Church of Christ Anglican Church,NSW,Australia > Born: 8 Jan 1839 in Parramatta,Sydney,NSW,Australia > Father: Moses FONSECA #23041 Mother: Esther AIKEN #23040 > > BUT.............. > on the birth certificate of one of their children it states he was born > in Liverpool, NSW and at the time of their sons Samuel's birth (1865) he > was 29 and she was 27. so this discounts the first theory. > > I sent away for what I thought was his death certificate and it was the > wrong one. I am totally confused. If any lister could help I would be > greatly appreciative. > > cheers > > Gayle

Hi Listers, I am trying to locate information on convict Hugh Donohue and his wife Bridget. The NAI Transportation Database indicates that Bridget made application for a free passage to New South Wales on the 4/11/1840, with reference to her husband Hugh Donohue being a convict and having being transported there. The problem I have with this is that I can find no trace of a Hugh Donohue convict being transported to NSW, as per contents of Lesley's Convict Anthology CD's. Does anyone know whether he came under a different name, or was he perhaps transported to a different penal settlement? Kind regards, Warren Diggins ________________________________________________________________________ AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.

Hi Gayle On one of my branches, three of the children's birth certificates list the father's birthplace as Victoria; the other three list it as South America. Have you considered obtaining another sibling's birth certificate? Silly question, but are you sure the child's birth certificate says Liverpool "NSW"? Does this information come from a transcription? I say this because: a) I've seen certificates where you can't tell from the writing whether the birthplace says "Victoria" or "Ireland". b) Liverpool in England had a significant Irish population. Regards Brent ............................. Message: 3 Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:36:27 +1100 From: "Gayle Clarke-Wood" <gclarkew@optusnet.com.au> Subject: [PJ] Help - Duggan William To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <3D2849D880F847938E73AF160B452220@owner883c056ql> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi I need help as I keep coming up against brick walls. My GGGGgrandfather William Duggan is a mystery and everyone in the family have put him in the "too hard basket". One theory put forward by a cousin is the following: Born: 1828 in Clare County,Ireland Travelled: on the Neptune-Arrived 6 Feb 1852 in Sydney (is he a convict?) Occupation: Grooms/Labourer Occupation: 1856 Sawyer Resided: 1856 in Wattle Flat,via Bathurst,NSW,Australia Died: ? Father: James DUGGAN #23039 Mother: Margaret (Mrs. James DUGGAN) #23038 Wife: Mary Jane FINSAKER #22030 Birth name Jane FONSECA Married: 25 Nov 1856 in Sofala-Church of Christ Anglican Church,NSW,Australia Born: 8 Jan 1839 in Parramatta,Sydney,NSW,Australia Father: Moses FONSECA #23041 Mother: Esther AIKEN #23040 BUT.............. on the birth certificate of one of their children it states he was born in Liverpool, NSW and at the time of their sons Samuel's birth (1865) he was 29 and she was 27. so this discounts the first theory. I sent away for what I thought was his death certificate and it was the wrong one. I am totally confused. If any lister could help I would be greatly appreciative. cheers Gayle

Hi Christine I note there is an entry for Silvester Lillis in Vol 2 of the Hawkesbury Family History Group's book Hawkesbury Pioneer Register. cheers Grahame

I didn't say discard it - but when it contradicts other information, some people are too willing to say "oh but it's a CERTIFICATE, so it must be right. " In the family I'm currently working on, out of 9 birth/marriage certificates not one is 100% accurate. So because the certificate says he was born in one place doesn't mean he wasn't the person arriving from another place, only that the person filling in the certificate had misconceptions or misinformation. cheers Min At 05:12 PM 29/01/2009, you wrote: >Min, > >Perhaps you are being a little harsh. How about certificates >sometimes include errors? It is good to have a healthy scepticism, >but until one finds contrary information then the certificate is the >best source. The historian's job is to collect information from a >number of sources and then interpret it. > >All good questions you raise, but 200 years on most likely >impossible to answer them. > >I suppose what I am getting at is don't discard a piece of >information too easily. > >Best regards, >John > >- original message - >Subject: Re: [PJ] Help - Duggan William >From: Minuet <minuet9@internode.on.net> >Date: 29-01-2009 04:50 > >I'm the first person to say that certificates are almost never accurate ;) > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word >'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 3809 (20090129) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com

Hi Christine I cannot help you with information about their lives before they arrived in Port Jackson and am not sure if that is what you really asking. regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of christine Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:21 AM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: [PJ] Silvester Lillis Hi Leslie and gang, I am looking for info on Silvester Lillis or Lellis. He arrived in 1823 on the Earl St Vincent and married another transportee, Sally or Sarah Kelly (arrived in 1840 on Isabella 11 ) in 1845. I know nothing about either before they set foot in this land. Can anyone help? Christine Christine Harmsworth Romteck Grid

I'm the first person to say that certificates are almost never accurate ;) So - is this the child's place of birth in the wrong section (or the question misunderstood?) Who registered that birth? Did they even know where he was born or did they assume? At 03:23 PM 29/01/2009, you wrote: > > BUT.............. > > on the birth certificate of one of their children it states he was born in > > Liverpool, NSW and at the time of their sons Samuel's birth (1865) he was > > 29 and she was 27. so this discounts the first theory.

Hi Gayle, If you have a look at the NSW State Records website under Assisted Immigrants you will find these listed under Duggan: Bridget 5 & family Catherine 2 & family infant Maria 7 & family Mary 28 & family Stephen 25 William 24 Patrick 35 & family Rose 1 & family They all arrived on the Neptune 1852 as assisted immigrants. The reel references appear as 2136, 2463 so if you go into the website you can order them on-line for a small fee. Lyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gayle Clarke-Wood" <gclarkew@optusnet.com.au> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:36 AM Subject: [PJ] Help - Duggan William > Hi > I need help as I keep coming up against brick walls. > > My GGGGgrandfather William Duggan is a mystery and everyone in the family > have put him in the "too hard basket". > > One theory put forward by a cousin is the following: > > Born: 1828 in Clare County,Ireland Travelled: on the Neptune-Arrived 6 > Feb 1852 in Sydney (is he a convict?) > Occupation: Grooms/Labourer > Occupation: 1856 Sawyer Resided: 1856 in Wattle Flat,via > Bathurst,NSW,Australia > Died: ? > Father: James DUGGAN #23039 > Mother: Margaret (Mrs. James DUGGAN) #23038 > Wife: Mary Jane FINSAKER #22030 Birth name Jane FONSECA Married: 25 Nov > 1856 in Sofala-Church of Christ Anglican Church,NSW,Australia Born: 8 > Jan 1839 in Parramatta,Sydney,NSW,Australia > Father: Moses FONSECA #23041 Mother: Esther AIKEN #23040 > > BUT.............. > on the birth certificate of one of their children it states he was born in > Liverpool, NSW and at the time of their sons Samuel's birth (1865) he was > 29 and she was 27. so this discounts the first theory. > > I sent away for what I thought was his death certificate and it was the > wrong one. I am totally confused. If any lister could help I would be > greatly appreciative. > > cheers > > Gayle > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Min, Perhaps you are being a little harsh. How about certificates sometimes include errors? It is good to have a healthy scepticism, but until one finds contrary information then the certificate is the best source. The historian's job is to collect information from a number of sources and then interpret it. All good questions you raise, but 200 years on most likely impossible to answer them. I suppose what I am getting at is don't discard a piece of information too easily. Best regards, John - original message - Subject: Re: [PJ] Help - Duggan William From: Minuet <minuet9@internode.on.net> Date: 29-01-2009 04:50 I'm the first person to say that certificates are almost never accurate ;)

Gayle, yes, really, some of these people! I see from your other post that you are a "cousin" regards Ray On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 8:18 AM, Gayle Clarke-Wood <gclarkew@optusnet.com.au > wrote: > Thanks Ray, a bit of acknowledgement for the original inhabitants. > > regards > > Gayle > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ray Fairall" <rayfairall@gmail.com> > To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 2:36 PM > Subject: Re: [PJ] A man in a thousand. > > > > The Aboriginals of the greater Sydney region probably had a more > > nutritious > > and varied diet than most in Europe at the time. Studies in the Northern > > Territory in the 1930's showed that the Aboriginals there were healthier, > > happier and better fed than the average member of the English Working > > class. > > > > The culture of the local tribes which had been sustained since the seas > > rose > > to their present heights, was destroyed by disease and alcohol within a > > decade. > > > > Ray. > > > > (Descendant of John Randall and John Martin, Alexander 1788).. > > > > On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Barbara Eglitis > > <muffy15@optusnet.com.au>wrote: > > > >> Obviously! Do you think they could all live in bark humpys and live on > >> goannas? > >> > >> Muffy. > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "COLIN BORROTT-MALONEY" <colinbm1@bigpond.com> > >> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 12:59 AM > >> Subject: Re: [PJ] A man in a thousand. > >> > >> > >> > The infrastructure was already in place for the original inhabitants. > >> > Everything that was needed to sustain life was already in place for > >> > them > >> ! > >> > It was the white mans burden that had to be carried out to here ! > >> > Cheers > >> > Col > >> > > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Lesley Uebel" <ckennedy@bigpond.net.au> > >> > To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> > >> > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 3:05 PM > >> > Subject: Re: [PJ] A man in a thousand. > >> > > >> > > >> >> Hi Valerie, Thank you > >> >> > >> >> Governor Phillip was certainly one of our better Governors and his > job > >> >> made all > >> >> that more difficult, arriving as they did with no infrastructure in > >> >> place. > >> >> > >> >> regards > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Lesley Uebel > >> >> mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au > >> >> CLAIM A CONVICT > >> >> http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com > >> >> [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of > >> >> valerie.williams > >> >> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 3:23 PM > >> >> To: PJ Convicts > >> >> Subject: Re: [PJ] A man in a thousand. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Dear Lesley, > >> >> > >> >> I agree with you about Captain Arthur Phillip, he really is the > Father > >> of > >> >> Our Nation and doesn't receive the recognition he deserves. > >> >> > >> >> Thank you for taking the time to type up the information from HRA for > >> our > >> >> list. I really enjoyed it > >> >> > >> >> Valerie Williams > >> >> Mollymook NSW > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> ------------------------------- > >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> >> AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >> 'unsubscribe' > >> >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> >> > >> >> __________ NOD32 3797 (20090124) Information __________ > >> >> > >> >> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > >> >> http://www.eset.com > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------- > >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >> > 'unsubscribe' > >> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi I need help as I keep coming up against brick walls. My GGGGgrandfather William Duggan is a mystery and everyone in the family have put him in the "too hard basket". One theory put forward by a cousin is the following: Born: 1828 in Clare County,Ireland Travelled: on the Neptune-Arrived 6 Feb 1852 in Sydney (is he a convict?) Occupation: Grooms/Labourer Occupation: 1856 Sawyer Resided: 1856 in Wattle Flat,via Bathurst,NSW,Australia Died: ? Father: James DUGGAN #23039 Mother: Margaret (Mrs. James DUGGAN) #23038 Wife: Mary Jane FINSAKER #22030 Birth name Jane FONSECA Married: 25 Nov 1856 in Sofala-Church of Christ Anglican Church,NSW,Australia Born: 8 Jan 1839 in Parramatta,Sydney,NSW,Australia Father: Moses FONSECA #23041 Mother: Esther AIKEN #23040 BUT.............. on the birth certificate of one of their children it states he was born in Liverpool, NSW and at the time of their sons Samuel's birth (1865) he was 29 and she was 27. so this discounts the first theory. I sent away for what I thought was his death certificate and it was the wrong one. I am totally confused. If any lister could help I would be greatly appreciative. cheers Gayle

Hi Leslie and gang, I am looking for info on Silvester Lillis or Lellis. He arrived in 1823 on the Earl St Vincent and married another transportee, Sally or Sarah Kelly (arrived in 1840 on Isabella 11 ) in 1845. I know nothing about either before they set foot in this land. Can anyone help? Christine Christine Harmsworth Romteck Grid ph 02 9666 1555 fax 02 9316 9950