Hi Sandra, Yes, Sandra it is probably best to forget it as you still have not provided a name or time frame in order for anyone to help. Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of sandra fox Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 6:03 PM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PJ] Untraceable relatives. Sorry Lesley, I didn't want to take up to much room as I didn't know if she had convict ancestors or not so thank you so much. I will follow all these leads and maybe I will be lucky. Sandra ----- Original Message -----

Sorry Lesley, I didn't want to take up to much room as I didn't know if she had convict ancestors or not so thank you so much. I will follow all these leads and maybe I will be lucky. Sandra ----- Original Message -----

I should have also said it is wise to always give the names of the people concerned when asking for assistance. Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Lesley Uebel Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 5:37 PM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PJ] Untraceable relatives. Hi Sandra, Do you have a time frame ?? The reason I asked this before and gave the suggestions I did is because there were a few convicts who arrived as Credon, Creadan, Creadon and Creedon Regards

Hi Sandra, Do you have a time frame ?? The reason I asked this before and gave the suggestions I did is because there were a few convicts who arrived as Credon, Creadan, Creadon and Creedon Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of sandra fox Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 5:21 PM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PJ] Untraceable relatives. Thanks Lesley, I have tried some different spellings but didn't think to double the e. My problem is that I can't find either of them. They just seem to have landed here from outerspace. Sandra

Hi Sandra If your Cruden ancestor was the only one with that surname them maybe she came free and was a steerage passenger in a ship that today no record exits of the names of those passengers. This happened on many early immigration ships. Maybe she came with one of her married daughter's family. not sure thats cheeers Grahame >> >> >>> Hi, has anyone out there come across the name of Cruden? My gt gt gt >>> grandmother had this surname but I cannot find anything about her >>> anywhere. >> >>

Minuet, didn't think of a G. Ihave sometimers, some times I remember and sometimes I forget. Thanks Sandra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Minuet" <minuet9@internode.on.net> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 9:20 AM Subject: Re: [PJ] Untraceable relatives. > I'd also be trying Gruden and other variations. A lot of cursive > letters can look like a C > > I agree with Lesley - I can find more on convicts than on > 'respectable' people *G* > Min > > >>Hi, has anyone out there come across the name of Cruden? My gt gt gt >>grandmother had this surname but I cannot find anything about her >>anywhere. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Max, the trouble now is that as I have no information I wouldn't know if they were a Croydon . Even the McPherson's are untraceable. Sandra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Bancroft" <maxwell1@bigpond.net.au> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 8:02 AM Subject: Re: [PJ] Untraceable relatives. > The name Croydon could be what you are after. There is a suburb by that > name > in Sydney. There may be some connection. > Max > > Have you tried different spellings i.e. Credon, Creedon, Credan etc.. Try > swapping the vowels around > > Hi, has anyone out there come across the name of Cruden? My gt gt gt > grandmother had this surname but I cannot find anything about her > anywhere. > They don't have a marriage certificate or a birthcertificate for their > daughter and I cannot find any convicts with the surname either. I looked > at this because a lot of the time not being able to find anything was > because they were convicts. sorry to waste anyones time if she or her > parents weren't. Sandra > > > > > > . > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Lesley, I have tried some different spellings but didn't think to double the e. My problem is that I can't find either of them. They just seem to have landed here from outerspace. Sandra ----- Original Message -----

June Had a look - No Ann Carey. There is a reference in the index for the ship Neptune but you did not give me the convicts name on that ship. I will have a look when you send the name through. Thanks pat Pat Mott Researching HAWK, HAWKE, HAWKES, DAVIS, MOTT, GREEN, ANDERSON, RIGG, CAMPBELL, MAC TAGGART, TAGGART, RAIN, CONROY, ROBINSON, HOLGATE, DINES, MARSH On 30/01/2009, at 4:59 PM, june robinson wrote: > Hi Pat, Happy birthday. > I would like a look up if possible, oflanded at Port Jackson ship > Neptune > 2nd fleet 28/6/1790, she was b Liverpool 26/10.1765' > Also AnnCarey Bristol she got 14yrs. > also reseaching Robinson/Robertson from Scotland > thank you, > June Qld > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pat Pitts" <patpitts@iinet.net.au> > To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:48 PM > Subject: Re: [PJ] Untraceable relatives. > > > > > >> > >> >>> > > >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT- >>> JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.14/1917 - Release Date: > 1/26/2009 > 6:37 PM > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT- > JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Rhonda Yes I found the information at The National Archives in Dublin Ireland. It was a petition to try and stop him from being transported. It didn't work though, he was still sent to Tasmania. They mention petitions on their site http://www.nationalarchives.ie/topics/transportation/search01.html They have some fascinating information on the pages. I found one of mine and my Husband's only Convict from Ireland. The other two although her husband was still there, she didn't have a petition. Possibly because she was a female, and he wasn't in the same place as him. The other wasn't married, was most miffed about him, because he has been the hardest to trace. Kitty > Hello Kitty > > I was interested in part of your recent email (excerpt below). I have at > least two Irish convicts in my family tree. > > Can you tell me how and where you found the 15 pages on your husband's > convict? Both my Irish convicts were married when transported to Port > Jackson. Did you mean that you found this information whilst in Ireland? > > Any information would be welcome. > > Thanks > Rhonda

Hello Kitty I was interested in part of your recent email (excerpt below). I have at least two Irish convicts in my family tree. Can you tell me how and where you found the 15 pages on your husband's convict? Both my Irish convicts were married when transported to Port Jackson. Did you mean that you found this information whilst in Ireland? Any information would be welcome. Thanks Rhonda This is all the info you will find on him. UNLESS- he had a wife and family in Ireland. Then there is copious information. I found 15 pages on ,my Husbands Convict, because he was married and had a family Petitions were done for those convicts who were married. I visited the National Archives whilst in Dublin in 2007, they were very helpful.

Thanks Grahame, That link was interesting for the variety of nationalities amongst the crew. However, a few of the names make me suspicious of the veracity. For example: Fisher, William France Bell, George Italy Wheeler, James France Rather uncontinental looking names. I will do a bit of poking around there, but it is a pity they just give steerage as numbers with no names. Best regards, John

Hi Pat, Happy birthday. I would like a look up if possible, oflanded at Port Jackson ship Neptune 2nd fleet 28/6/1790, she was b Liverpool 26/10.1765' Also AnnCarey Bristol she got 14yrs. also reseaching Robinson/Robertson from Scotland thank you, June Qld ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Pitts" <patpitts@iinet.net.au> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:48 PM Subject: Re: [PJ] Untraceable relatives. > > >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT- >> JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.14/1917 - Release Date: 1/26/2009 6:37 PM

Robyn This is the only Hugh Donohue I could find Match 28 from 'Ireland-Australia transportation database' Lastname: DONOHUE Firstname: HUGH Sex: M Document date: 04/11/1840 Sentence: Transportation for 7 years Document ref1: FS 1840 4 Comment1: Convict's wife, Bridget Donohue, requests a free passage to New South Wales. >From this site http://www.nationalarchives.ie/search/index.php?category=18 He was on page 3 and I found him by his surname. This is all the info you will find on him. UNLESS- he had a wife and family in Ireland. Then there is copious information. I found 15 pages on ,my Husbands Convict, because he was married and had a family Petitions were done for those convicts who were married. I visited the National Archives whilst in Dublin in 2007, they were very helpful. Hope this helps. Kitty Tasmania Hi Robyn You are unlikely to find convicts sent from Ireland on that Queensland web site regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html Hello, I agree there seems to be none by that spelling in the convict lists in the QLD library. Some interseting results on theollowing websites: http://www.slq.qld.gov.au/info/fh/convicts some for Donoghue but no Hugh and few before 1840 a Nicholas in 1834 and a Maurice1835

Hi Robyn You are unlikely to find convicts sent from Ireland on that Queensland web site regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Robyn Gross Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 1:13 PM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PJ] Hugh Donohue Hello, I agree there seems to be none by that spelling in the convict lists in the QLD library. Some interseting results on theollowing websites: http://www.slq.qld.gov.au/info/fh/convicts some for Donoghue but no Hugh and few before 1840 a Nicholas in 1834 and a Maurice1835

Hello Lesley, Is it possible to find the names of convicts who arrived in 1827 on the "Brothers" ship please , I have found conflicting dates of a female birth and would like to find which is correct. Thank you, Margaret . ----- Original Message ----- From: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts-request@rootsweb.com> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 2:37 PM Subject: AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS Digest, Vol 4, Issue 36 > > > The Port Jackson Convicts Mailing List > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Silvester Lillis (Grahame & Rosslyn Thom) > 2. Re: Help - Duggan William (Brent Richards) > 3. Re: Help - Duggan William (Sherrie Blackman) > 4. Untraceable relatives. (sandra fox) > 5. Re: Untraceable relatives. (Pat Pitts) > 6. Mary Davis Bishop (Brett Hadden) > 7. Re: Untraceable relatives. (Lesley Uebel) > 8. Re: Untraceable relatives. (Max Bancroft) > 9. Re: Help - Duggan William (Gayle Clarke-Wood) > 10. Re: Help - Duggan William (Gayle Clarke-Wood) > 11. Re: Untraceable relatives. (Minuet) > 12. Re: Hugh Donohue (wdiggins@aol.com) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:22:55 +1100 > From: Grahame & Rosslyn Thom <grthom@bigpond.com> > Subject: Re: [PJ] Silvester Lillis > To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <51F71154-5EC5-41CC-9C9D-489DA63583EF@bigpond.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > Hi Christine > > I note there is an entry for Silvester Lillis in Vol 2 of the > Hawkesbury Family History Group's book Hawkesbury Pioneer Register. > > cheers > > Grahame > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:11:32 +1100 > From: Brent Richards <brent.richards77@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [PJ] Help - Duggan William > To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <9c12dfa00901290111w55adaf46g6143a37d5354ffd7@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi Gayle > On one of my branches, three of the children's birth certificates list the > father's birthplace as Victoria; the other three list it as South America. > Have you considered obtaining another sibling's birth certificate? > > Silly question, but are you sure the child's birth certificate says > Liverpool "NSW"? Does this information come from a transcription? I say > this > because: > > a) I've seen certificates where you can't tell from the writing whether > the > birthplace says "Victoria" or "Ireland". > b) Liverpool in England had a significant Irish population. > > Regards > Brent > ............................. > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:36:27 +1100 > From: "Gayle Clarke-Wood" <gclarkew@optusnet.com.au> > Subject: [PJ] Help - Duggan William > To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <3D2849D880F847938E73AF160B452220@owner883c056ql> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi > I need help as I keep coming up against brick walls. > > My GGGGgrandfather William Duggan is a mystery and everyone in the family > have put him in the "too hard basket". > > One theory put forward by a cousin is the following: > > Born: 1828 in Clare County,Ireland Travelled: on the Neptune-Arrived 6 > Feb > 1852 in Sydney (is he a convict?) > Occupation: Grooms/Labourer > Occupation: 1856 Sawyer Resided: 1856 in Wattle Flat,via > Bathurst,NSW,Australia > Died: ? > Father: James DUGGAN #23039 > Mother: Margaret (Mrs. James DUGGAN) #23038 > Wife: Mary Jane FINSAKER #22030 Birth name Jane FONSECA Married: 25 Nov > 1856 in Sofala-Church of Christ Anglican Church,NSW,Australia Born: 8 > Jan > 1839 in Parramatta,Sydney,NSW,Australia > Father: Moses FONSECA #23041 Mother: Esther AIKEN #23040 > > BUT.............. > on the birth certificate of one of their children it states he was born in > Liverpool, NSW and at the time of their sons Samuel's birth (1865) he was > 29 > and she was 27. so this discounts the first theory. > > I sent away for what I thought was his death certificate and it was the > wrong one. I am totally confused. If any lister could help I would be > greatly appreciative. > > cheers > > Gayle > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 21:56:45 +1100 > From: "Sherrie Blackman" <silkweb@tpg.com.au> > Subject: Re: [PJ] Help - Duggan William > To: "Gayle Clarke-Wood" <gclarkew@optusnet.com.au>, > aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <op.uoil0vub5xjpm9@sherrie-01> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; > charset=iso-8859-15 > > Hi Gayle, > > Have you spoke to Amanda ? > > http://tinyurl.com/afq782 > > Amanda has Mary/Jane's death in 1924 Lithgow... > 9260/1924 - DUGGAN MARY J - MOSES & ESTHER - LITHGOW > > Perhaps Mary's death certificate might shed some light on William's death? > > Also Tony tonyg@dragnet.com.au was researching the Duggan > family back in 1998. I haven't seen Tony for years, so perhaps this > email address is no longer valid. > > Tony seems to think Mary Jane Duggan (c.1896) and might be buried in > Maitland Cemetery. > > From what I can see on-line, I couldn't find William or Mary... > http://www.maitland.nsw.gov.au/Heritage/Cemeteries > > Perhaps a call to Lithgow cemetery to see if Mary Jane Duggan is buried > there > and if so, is William with her? > > There is one William Duggan (d.05/07/1923 Anglican) buried at Lithgow, but > whether he's yours or not... > http://www.council.lithgow.com/cemetery.html > > Rhonda Turnbull raturn@dragnet.com.au has the Fonseca branch in her tree. > Rhonda has been > a avid researcher for many years and may be able to shed some light. :) > > Do you have a copy of William & Mary's marriage certificate? > > I think Brent's idea of obtaining more children's birth certificates would > be a good idea. :) > > Kind regards, > Sherrie. > > > > On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:36:27 +1100, Gayle Clarke-Wood > <gclarkew@optusnet.com.au> wrote: > >> Hi >> I need help as I keep coming up against brick walls. >> >> My GGGGgrandfather William Duggan is a mystery and everyone in the >> family have put him in the "too hard basket". >> >> One theory put forward by a cousin is the following: >> >> Born: 1828 in Clare County,Ireland Travelled: on the Neptune-Arrived >> 6 Feb 1852 in Sydney (is he a convict?) >> Occupation: Grooms/Labourer >> Occupation: 1856 Sawyer Resided: 1856 in Wattle Flat,via >> Bathurst,NSW,Australia >> Died: ? >> Father: James DUGGAN #23039 >> Mother: Margaret (Mrs. James DUGGAN) #23038 >> Wife: Mary Jane FINSAKER #22030 Birth name Jane FONSECA Married: 25 >> Nov 1856 in Sofala-Church of Christ Anglican Church,NSW,Australia >> Born: 8 Jan 1839 in Parramatta,Sydney,NSW,Australia >> Father: Moses FONSECA #23041 Mother: Esther AIKEN #23040 >> >> BUT.............. >> on the birth certificate of one of their children it states he was born >> in Liverpool, NSW and at the time of their sons Samuel's birth (1865) he >> was 29 and she was 27. so this discounts the first theory. >> >> I sent away for what I thought was his death certificate and it was the >> wrong one. I am totally confused. If any lister could help I would be >> greatly appreciative. >> >> cheers >> >> Gayle > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:37:32 +1100 > From: "sandra fox" <sandra26sandra@optusnet.com.au> > Subject: [PJ] Untraceable relatives. > To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <316173B453CE4B0C977C80BB1CABAFAA@HP26230307792> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi, has anyone out there come across the name of Cruden? My gt gt gt > grandmother had this surname but I cannot find anything about her > anywhere. > They don't have a marriage certificate or a birthcertificate for their > daughter and I cannot find any convicts with the surname either. I looked > at this because a lot of the time not being able to find anything was > because they were convicts. sorry to waste anyones time if she or her > parents weren't. Sandra > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:48:57 +1100 > From: Pat Pitts <patpitts@iinet.net.au> > Subject: Re: [PJ] Untraceable relatives. > To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <A2B0AC9F-0190-48B8-A069-46A5E6F96790@iinet.net.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > Hi Listers > > Its my 60th birthday today and I received a book AUSTRALIA'S > BIRTHSTAIN - The startling Legacy of the Convict Era by Babette > Smith. I also have THE CRIMES OF THE FIRST FLEET CONVICTS by John > Cobley. If anyone would like me to look up in either of these books > please let me know. I am happy to do so. > > Pat Mott > Central Victoria > Researching HAWK, HAWKE, HAWKES, DAVIS, MOTT, GREEN, ANDERSON, RIGG, > CAMPBELL, MAC TAGGART, TAGGART, RAIN, CONROY, ROBINSON, HOLGATE, > DINES, MARSH > > On 29/01/2009, at 10:37 PM, sandra fox wrote: > >> Hi, has anyone out there come across the name of Cruden? My gt gt gt >> grandmother had this surname but I cannot find anything about her >> anywhere. >> They don't have a marriage certificate or a birthcertificate for their >> daughter and I cannot find any convicts with the surname either. I >> looked >> at this because a lot of the time not being able to find anything was >> because they were convicts. sorry to waste anyones time if she or her >> parents weren't. Sandra >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT- >> JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:42:32 -0800 > From: "Brett Hadden" <sleddogtours@bigpond.com> > Subject: [PJ] Mary Davis Bishop > To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <000c01c982a5$ee18b0a0$ca4a11e0$@com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > Hi My name is Neisha Gschwend (nee Shrimpton) I am new to this sight and > would like to share my Convict ancestor information. > > My Great,Great,Great,Great Grandmother is Mary Davis/Bishop, Mary was born > around 1761, probably at Diddlebury in Shropshire,England,under either the > name of Davis or Bishop, both names common in the area. At present nothing > has been found on her birth. > In 1785 she managed to get herself into trouble by breaking into a house > and > stealing a copper kettle, and then into another house where she stole a > quantity of clothing, and then handed over everything to Ann Davis and > Joseph Owen, who both received the stolen property. Whether Ann was a > relation or not is not known. > Tried and convicted at Shrewsbury on 12th March 1785,Ann Davis was found > not > guilty but Mary was sentenced to death, a sentence that was changed to > seven > years of transportation on the 28th December 1785.Almost a year later on > the > 23rd November 1786 she was sent to the New Goal at Southwark and on 31st > January 1787 after going by wagon to Gravend, she was placed on board the > Lady Penrhyn.She arrived in the colony on board that ship as part of the > First Fleet on the 26th January 1788. > On the 18th December 1787 whilst on board the Lady Penrhyn on the way to > Australia she fell down the hatchway...."pitched on her head...which being > well defended by false hair, rolls etc she sustained no material > injury"...reports the official papers. > At Sydney on 27th September 1788 she broke a bottle over the head of John > Mara who slept in her hut, but only after he had apparently called her a > "bitch" in a scuffle with some of the Soldiers. > On the 2nd November 1788 at St Phillips Church of England in Sydney she > married Samuel Day as Mary Bishop the first time she was to use the name > in > the Colony, however she did not live long with Samuel for some reason or > use > the Day name. > On the 4th March 1789 she was sent to Norfolk Island on board the > "Sirius", > her husband Samuel not being sent until 1790 and by then he had a defacto > wife Mary Bolton with whom he was to stay with. > Mary gave birth to a Daughter, Charlotte in 1791 the father not recorded. > Mary and infant daughter Charlotte both left Norfolk Island on board the > "Kitty" in March 1793,returning to Sydney. The 1801 list shows her as Mary > Davis in Sydney with an expired sentence. > Apparently she moved to the Parramatta area, and Rev Samuel Marsden in his > muster shows her as a concubine with one illegitimate daughter. He > apparently did not consider her legal marriage to Samuel Day as of any > consequence. In 1806 she is shown as Mary Bishop, a servant at Government > House at Parramatta. > She was still at Parramatta when on the 10th May 1809 she leased land in > the > main Street of Parramatta and on the 16th November a Mary Bishop was > granted > 30 acres of land at Bringelly, which was probably this Mary Bishop > although > she appears to have never taken up the grant as she was still in > Parramatta > in 1811, but this time as Mary Davis, and in 1814 was still as Mary Davis > living alone and single at Parramatta. > On the 1811 muster her daughter is shown as Charlotte Bishop and as > Charlotte Bishop she married James Crabb of the 73rd Regiment at > Parramatta > on 10th March 1811. > Mary was still at Parramatta as Mary Davis in 1822, but managed to go > unrecorded in 1825. By 1828 she was then a housekeeper to Joseph Martin at > Parramatta, her age given was 63yrs and with her working also for Martin > was > her eldest grandchild Alexander William Crabb. > Around 1833 Charlotte's husband John moved out, owing apparently to the > birth of a child to another man, and it was apparently then that Mary > Bishop > moved to Kurrajong to be with Charlotte and also to have company in her > old > age. > Mary died at Charlotte's home on the 1st January 1839, and she was buried > five days later at St Peters Richmond, her age being shown as 80yrs, and a > widow. She left behind a daughter and seven grandchildren. Her grave is > unmarked, but all evidence points to her daughter Charlotte being buried > with her in later years. > > NORTH RICMOND CEMETERY > Sandstone Headstone marked as Charlotte Pently (one word)-Charlottepently > Has a 1st Fleet Medallion on it for Mary Davis/ Bishop. > > Charlotte Bishop > > Charlotte Bishop was born on Norfolk Island in 1791, the daughter of Mary > Davis/Bishop a convict on the First Fleet, and an unknown Father ( > possibly > Samuel Day ) with her mother Mary she came to Sydney on board the "Kitty" > in > March 1793. Her Mother was then sent to Parramatta and this is where > Charlotte spent her childhood. In 1806 she was with her mother who was > working at Government House as a servant, and living by 1809 in the main > Street of Parramatta. In 1808 when Charlotte was 17yrs she had a daughter > which she called Susannah ( father unknown ). It was in Parramatta that > Charlotte met James Crabb, a soldier in the 73rd regiment. > On the 1811 muster she was shown as Charlotte Bishop born in the colony > and > free, at Parramatta. On the 10th March 1811 at St John's Church of England > , > Parramatta she married James. Their two children were born at Parramatta- > Alexander William in 1813 and Mary in 1814. Following the birth of Mary > the > family moved to Sydney. On the 1814 muster Charlotte is shown as Charlotte > Crabb, free and on stores with three children and the wife of James > soldier > of the 73rd regiment. James seems to disappear from records just after > that, > and it is not known if he died and his death unrecorded, or if he deserted > his family and returned to England at the end of his tour of duty, which > is > quite possible. > Charlotte moved back to her mother's home in Parramatta, and that is where > she met Richard Shrimpton, whom she married at St John's Church of > England, > Parramatta. Apparently accepted as a widow on the 9th August 1819. > To Richard she was to have four children, their first child was born at > Parramatta, Edward Francis in 1819,they then moved to the farm at > Wilberforce were their other three children were born, Charles 1822, Leah > 1824 and Richard in 1826. Age was to take its toll on Richard and he died > on > his farm on the 11th July 1827 and was buried at Wilberforce. > On the 22nd December 1828 at St John's Church of England Charlotte married > for a third time to John Pentley.(shown in register as Pintla) They moved > to > North Richmond and their daughter Susannah Jane was born in 1829. > In 1833 Charlotte had a daughter Margaret Elizabeth to Frederick Allsop, > at > this point John no longer seems to be living with Charlotte. It is at this > time she moved her family to Kurrajong and her mother Mary Bishop moved in > with her probably to help with the small children and to give her comfort > in > her old age. > John died in 1843 and Charlotte lived until the 5th September 1851,when > she > died in her home at Kurrajong. She was buried three days later at St > Peters, > Richmond, interred with her mother. > > Richard Shrimpton > > September 1787 committed to Reading Gaol Berkshire, charged with stealing > a > gelding the property of Rob Coster of Hungerford Berkshire at Edingham > Hills. Sold the horse at Angel Inn at Woolhampton and took hired chaise to > White Hart Inn at Charalan Street (Chilton) Wiltshire, where drunken > bragging aroused suspicion. May 1788 reprieved from death sentence. Sent > 11th June to Portsmouth and the prison hulk "Lion". On 29th November 1789 > embarked on ship "Scarborough" for Botany Bay, arriving Port Jackson June > 1790. November 1797 servant, eastern farm grant with no stock. Given > pardon > for good behaviour November 1799 and received a 50 acre land grant in > eastern farm district. 1802 cultivating an acre of wheat, 6 acres Maize > and > employing 2 free men and a convict. 20th January1805 charged with > obtaining > permits for the issue of spirits by fraudulently making use of the names > of > other persons. Committed to the gaol gang. By 1806 sold his land and was a > labourer employed by Simeon Lord.1807 farm at Kissing Point up for sale > 1st > February 1807 moved to Hawkesbury 1822 musters,held.twenty acres of land > in > Hawkesbury March 1827 farmer at Wilberforce County Cumberland on sons > Baptism. > > I hope you found this information as interesting as I have. > > Regards, > Neisha > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 07:51:48 +1100 > From: "Lesley Uebel" <ckennedy@bigpond.net.au> > Subject: Re: [PJ] Untraceable relatives. > To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <OGEELKEHANIHLMOJNLCJKEHIPPAA.ckennedy@bigpond.net.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi Sandra > > An approximate time frame would help. > > Have you tried different spellings i.e. Credon, Creedon, Credan etc.. > Try > swapping the vowels around > > I have found the reverse in that I have not been able to find marriages > and > births because the people concerned were NOT convicts > > > Regards > > Lesley Uebel > mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au > CLAIM A CONVICT > http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of sandra > fox > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 10:38 PM > To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com > Subject: [PJ] Untraceable relatives. > > > Hi, has anyone out there come across the name of Cruden? My gt gt gt > grandmother had this surname but I cannot find anything about her > anywhere. > They don't have a marriage certificate or a birthcertificate for their > daughter and I cannot find any convicts with the surname either. I looked > at this because a lot of the time not being able to find anything was > because they were convicts. sorry to waste anyones time if she or her > parents weren't. Sandra > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 08:02:49 +1100 (AUS Eastern Daylight Time) > From: "Max Bancroft" <maxwell1@bigpond.net.au> > Subject: Re: [PJ] Untraceable relatives. > To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <49821979.000001.05108@MAX-PC> > Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > The name Croydon could be what you are after. There is a suburb by that > name > in Sydney. There may be some connection. > Max > > Have you tried different spellings i.e. Credon, Creedon, Credan etc.. Try > swapping the vowels around > > Hi, has anyone out there come across the name of Cruden? My gt gt gt > grandmother had this surname but I cannot find anything about her > anywhere. > They don't have a marriage certificate or a birthcertificate for their > daughter and I cannot find any convicts with the surname either. I looked > at this because a lot of the time not being able to find anything was > because they were convicts. sorry to waste anyones time if she or her > parents weren't. Sandra > > > > > > . > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 08:05:40 +1100 > From: "Gayle Clarke-Wood" <gclarkew@optusnet.com.au> > Subject: Re: [PJ] Help - Duggan William > To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <3D1D625A4A7D4193A1ECF5CE5A23CCCA@owner883c056ql> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi, > > Yes your right about the informant - Jane (or sometimes known as Mary > Jane) > William Duggans Wife and mother of the child, whose mark X was on the > certificate and this lady alternated between Jane and Mary all the time. > : ) > > cheers > Gayle >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 08:09:19 +1100 > From: "Gayle Clarke-Wood" <gclarkew@optusnet.com.au> > Subject: Re: [PJ] Help - Duggan William > To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <3427A0F07FE84D0595BE7777E4B419CA@owner883c056ql> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi, > > I have a new version and one of those old gorgeous handwritten > certificates > and it states NSW but as Minuet says the informant might not be so > informed > and there was the stigma of convict descent. > > cheers > > Gayle > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brent Richards" <brent.richards77@gmail.com> > To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:11 PM > Subject: Re: [PJ] Help - Duggan William > > >> Hi Gayle >> On one of my branches, three of the children's birth certificates list >> the >> father's birthplace as Victoria; the other three list it as South >> America. >> Have you considered obtaining another sibling's birth certificate? >> >> Silly question, but are you sure the child's birth certificate says >> Liverpool "NSW"? Does this information come from a transcription? I say >> this >> because: >> >> a) I've seen certificates where you can't tell from the writing whether >> the >> birthplace says "Victoria" or "Ireland". >> b) Liverpool in England had a significant Irish population. >> >> Regards >> Brent >> ............................. >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:36:27 +1100 >> From: "Gayle Clarke-Wood" <gclarkew@optusnet.com.au> >> Subject: [PJ] Help - Duggan William >> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> >> Message-ID: <3D2849D880F847938E73AF160B452220@owner883c056ql> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> Hi >> I need help as I keep coming up against brick walls. >> >> My GGGGgrandfather William Duggan is a mystery and everyone in the family >> have put him in the "too hard basket". >> >> One theory put forward by a cousin is the following: >> >> Born: 1828 in Clare County,Ireland Travelled: on the Neptune-Arrived 6 >> Feb >> 1852 in Sydney (is he a convict?) >> Occupation: Grooms/Labourer >> Occupation: 1856 Sawyer Resided: 1856 in Wattle Flat,via >> Bathurst,NSW,Australia >> Died: ? >> Father: James DUGGAN #23039 >> Mother: Margaret (Mrs. James DUGGAN) #23038 >> Wife: Mary Jane FINSAKER #22030 Birth name Jane FONSECA Married: 25 Nov >> 1856 in Sofala-Church of Christ Anglican Church,NSW,Australia Born: 8 >> Jan >> 1839 in Parramatta,Sydney,NSW,Australia >> Father: Moses FONSECA #23041 Mother: Esther AIKEN #23040 >> >> BUT.............. >> on the birth certificate of one of their children it states he was born >> in >> Liverpool, NSW and at the time of their sons Samuel's birth (1865) he was >> 29 >> and she was 27. so this discounts the first theory. >> >> I sent away for what I thought was his death certificate and it was the >> wrong one. I am totally confused. If any lister could help I would be >> greatly appreciative. >> >> cheers >> >> Gayle >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 09:20:38 +1100 > From: Minuet <minuet9@internode.on.net> > Subject: Re: [PJ] Untraceable relatives. > To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <7j1pve$8q4jip@ipmail04.adl2.internode.on.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > I'd also be trying Gruden and other variations. A lot of cursive > letters can look like a C > > I agree with Lesley - I can find more on convicts than on > 'respectable' people *G* > Min > > >>Hi, has anyone out there come across the name of Cruden? My gt gt gt >>grandmother had this surname but I cannot find anything about her >>anywhere. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:36:44 -0500 > From: wdiggins@aol.com > Subject: Re: [PJ] Hugh Donohue > To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <8CB50925799AC0C-B50-108D@webmail-de02.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Hi Listers, > I am trying to locate information on convict Hugh Donohue > and his wife Bridget. The NAI Transportation Database indicates that > Bridget made application for a free passage to New South Wales on the > 4/11/1840, with reference to her husband Hugh Donohue being a convict > and having being transported there. The problem I have with this is > that I can find no trace of a Hugh Donohue convict being transported to > NSW, as per contents of Lesley's Convict Anthology CD's. > > Does anyone know whether he came under a different name, or was he > perhaps transported to a different penal settlement? > > Kind regards, Warren Diggins > ________________________________________________________________________ > AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the > move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS list administrator, send an email > to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS mailing list, send an > email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS Digest, Vol 4, Issue 36 > ******************************************************

Who are you looking for Margaret and I shall check regards .... I have deleted the 12 other emails you sent with this question. Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Margaret Stantiall Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 12:49 PM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PJ] AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS Digest, Vol 4, Issue 36 Hello Lesley, Is it possible to find the names of convicts who arrived in 1827 on the "Brothers" ship please , I have found conflicting dates of a female birth and would like to find which is correct. Thank you, Margaret .

Hi Grahame, What period would that be: "early immigration ships"? I am looking for a RICHARD REYNOLDS who was in England for the 1851 census, but married in Sydney on 1 Jan 1855. Cannot find any record of how he got here. I know there was a convict (exile) of the same name arrived on Randolph 1849, but I have eliminated him as a possibility. Best regards, John

Hello, I agree there seems to be none by that spelling in the convict lists in the QLD library. Some interseting results on theollowing websites: http://www.slq.qld.gov.au/info/fh/convicts some for Donoghue but no Hugh and few before 1840 a Nicholas in 1834 and a Maurice1835 and this great site http://www.jenwilletts.com/searchaction.php has Patrick 1837 aged 18 tried in Co Carlow. Patrick 1827 (age aoccupation and assignment given) Martin tried Co Galway 1832 several entries about this man worth looking at and I can't include in respect for the web owner's copyright. Michael 1839 getting a ticket of leave. (place given) John 1836 (tol) regards Robyn in Wodonga ----- Original Message ----- From: <wdiggins@aol.com> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [PJ] Hugh Donohue > Hi Listers, > I am trying to locate information on convict Hugh Donohue > and his wife Bridget. The NAI Transportation Database indicates that > Bridget made application for a free passage to New South Wales on the > 4/11/1840, with reference to her husband Hugh Donohue being a convict > and having being transported there. The problem I have with this is > that I can find no trace of a Hugh Donohue convict being transported to > NSW, as per contents of Lesley's Convict Anthology CD's. > > Does anyone know whether he came under a different name, or was he > perhaps transported to a different penal settlement? > > Kind regards, Warren Diggins > ________________________________________________________________________ > AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the > move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I'd also be trying Gruden and other variations. A lot of cursive letters can look like a C I agree with Lesley - I can find more on convicts than on 'respectable' people *G* Min >Hi, has anyone out there come across the name of Cruden? My gt gt gt >grandmother had this surname but I cannot find anything about her anywhere.