I have hazel - and Margaret Kenny is the first convict ancestor I've found with hazel - all the rest are browns - and to top it off she's probably not the Margaret who gave birth to my great grandmother :/ (Browns dominate in my family) At 09:27 PM 19/02/2009, you wrote: >Welcome Robert, > >Yet another convict with hazel eyes.

Hi John, As a variation, my convict ancestor is recorded as having dark hazel eyes; I would have called this brown! Lol Perhaps I should start calling my eye colour dark hazel. Regards Janine -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Bushell Sent: Thursday, 19 February 2009 9:27 PM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PJ] Introduction from New List Member Welcome Robert, Yet another convict with hazel eyes. I started a topic on that last year sometime, and as I watch these pages I keep seeing a very high occurrence of hazel as the colour of their eyes. Who was it the other day said he needed a research project? I suggest this is one just crying out for someone to take it up. A comparative study of the occurrence of hazel eyes in the convict population and the occurrence of hazel eyes in early 21st century Australian population. Might be some distorting factors like immigrants from Asian countries in recent decades and southern Europeans following WWII, but the person doing the research can take that into account. Best regards, John Bushell PS. I have blue eyes whereas my first known ancestor amongst the convicts was described as having hazel eyes. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Greetings to list members This is just an introduction from a new member. I'm researching the following convict: "John Chard Fairlie (Ship) 15 FEB 1834 Standing No 34-181 Indent No 12 Age 18 Education R&W Religion Protestant Single Native Place Bristol Trade Tailor 3 1/2 years Indifferent House Breaking Bristol Quarter Sessions 8 April 1833 Sentence 14 years Former Convict 1 year Height 5'6" Complex Sallow Hair Brown Eyes Hazel & tender Marks Fish on upper tree & serpent lower rt arm, 2 inoculation scars under left arm blue ring on middle finger of left hand" John was given a ticket of leave 43/2048 on 24 August 1843 for the district of Parramatta, subsequently marked "Altered to Port Phillip" on petition. I'm interested in finding out whether he did in fact go to Port Phillip and whether he remained there. I also have an interest in Thomas Dillon (Havering, 1849) and know his story quite well through the efforts of others. Regards Robert -- Robert Curran

Hi, Will someone please advise me how to find out who my two female convicts were assigned to when they arrived in PJ on the Minerva in December of 1839. They were Catherine Byrne (not the Catherine married to Biggs) and Catherine Bradshaw. Any leads appreciated. Cheers Janine

Welcome Robert, Yet another convict with hazel eyes. I started a topic on that last year sometime, and as I watch these pages I keep seeing a very high occurrence of hazel as the colour of their eyes. Who was it the other day said he needed a research project? I suggest this is one just crying out for someone to take it up. A comparative study of the occurrence of hazel eyes in the convict population and the occurrence of hazel eyes in early 21st century Australian population. Might be some distorting factors like immigrants from Asian countries in recent decades and southern Europeans following WWII, but the person doing the research can take that into account. Best regards, John Bushell PS. I have blue eyes whereas my first known ancestor amongst the convicts was described as having hazel eyes.

Hi Lesley, Thankyou very much for that explanation. Seems as though she was playing up in the Female Factory, so may have been sent back after marriage. Kind regards, Susan, in NSW. On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Lesley Uebel <ckennedy@bigpond.net.au>wrote: > Hi Sian > > There could be a few reasons why. > > Sarah may have misbehaved and therefore sent back to the factory OR it > could be > that John Large misbehaved > > When they applied for permission to marry neither one was in receipt of a > Ticket > of Leave (nor a pardon or Certificate of Freedom) As I have mentioned > before she > was assigned to Andrew Byrne when she arrived although I don't know just > how > long she stayed in his employ. > > Either the master of John or Sarah would have had to agree to engage both > of > them for the marriage application to be approved. The person to whom they > were > both assigned may have sent Sarah back > > > Regards > > > Lesley Uebel > mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au > CLAIM A CONVICT > http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Susan > Lamberton > Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 10:56 PM > To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PJ] Female Factory > > > Hi Minuet, > > Thankyou very much for searching the list for Timms and Turner. > Wonderful to have the results for Sarah Fisher. > One question though for the list. > Sarah married a convict, in 1827 at Parramatta, so > why would she have still been in the Female Factory in 1828? > Obviously from the index she was still there, but I thought they had to > move > out of the Factory when they married? > > Kind regards, > Susan, in > NSW/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Sian There could be a few reasons why. Sarah may have misbehaved and therefore sent back to the factory OR it could be that John Large misbehaved When they applied for permission to marry neither one was in receipt of a Ticket of Leave (nor a pardon or Certificate of Freedom) As I have mentioned before she was assigned to Andrew Byrne when she arrived although I don't know just how long she stayed in his employ. Either the master of John or Sarah would have had to agree to engage both of them for the marriage application to be approved. The person to whom they were both assigned may have sent Sarah back Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Susan Lamberton Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 10:56 PM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PJ] Female Factory Hi Minuet, Thankyou very much for searching the list for Timms and Turner. Wonderful to have the results for Sarah Fisher. One question though for the list. Sarah married a convict, in 1827 at Parramatta, so why would she have still been in the Female Factory in 1828? Obviously from the index she was still there, but I thought they had to move out of the Factory when they married? Kind regards, Susan, in NSW/

Hi Minuet, Thankyou very much for searching the list for Timms and Turner. Wonderful to have the results for Sarah Fisher. One question though for the list. Sarah married a convict, in 1827 at Parramatta, so why would she have still been in the Female Factory in 1828? Obviously from the index she was still there, but I thought they had to move out of the Factory when they married? Kind regards, Susan, in NSW/ On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 10:14 PM, Minuet <minuet9@internode.on.net> wrote: > Hi > I had a few extra names to look up for some people - married names > etc, but I've lost track of which names were for whom - so here > are the amazing results in total: > > Margaret Jones - no listing > Rachel Coulter - no listing > Susannah Coulter - no listing > Janet Timms - no listing > Jessie Turner - no listing. > > Sorry folks, looks like anyone we're actually interested in avoided > the Parramatta factory just to annoy us. > Min > > > ---------- > *Earth is the insane asylum for the universe* > > ---------- > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi I had a few extra names to look up for some people - married names etc, but I've lost track of which names were for whom - so here are the amazing results in total: Margaret Jones - no listing Rachel Coulter - no listing Susannah Coulter - no listing Janet Timms - no listing Jessie Turner - no listing. Sorry folks, looks like anyone we're actually interested in avoided the Parramatta factory just to annoy us. Min ---------- *Earth is the insane asylum for the universe* ----------

Thanks Lesley Arnie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lesley Uebel" <ckennedy@bigpond.net.au> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [PJ] old burial ground > Hi Arnie > > The City of Sydney have produced it ... one or more others have copied it! > > The City of Sydney (and original) one is at > > > http://tinyurl.com/dcdoew > > Regards > > Lesley Uebel > mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au > CLAIM A CONVICT > http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of fletch > Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 6:45 PM > To: AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com > Subject: [PJ] old burial ground > > > Did someone at some stage have a link to the register of names of those > who are > believed to be still buried in the old cemetery ? > > Or was I dreaming, which happens quite often. > > Thanks > > Arnie > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Arnie The City of Sydney have produced it ... one or more others have copied it! The City of Sydney (and original) one is at http://tinyurl.com/dcdoew Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of fletch Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 6:45 PM To: AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com Subject: [PJ] old burial ground Did someone at some stage have a link to the register of names of those who are believed to be still buried in the old cemetery ? Or was I dreaming, which happens quite often. Thanks Arnie

Did someone at some stage have a link to the register of names of those who are believed to be still buried in the old cemetery ? Or was I dreaming, which happens quite often. Thanks Arnie

Hi Matt I only checked the convicts and not those who arrived in another capacity. regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Matthew Hall Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 3:39 PM To: AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com Subject: [PJ] RAWLINS first fleet Hi all, I was wondering if there was a RAWLINS (or close spelling) on the first fleet, and if so if any offspring were recorded in NSW? cheers, matt -- Matthew D. Hall Washington, DC

No, none on the First Fleet to my knowledge regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Matthew Hall Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 3:39 PM To: AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com Subject: [PJ] RAWLINS first fleet Hi all, I was wondering if there was a RAWLINS (or close spelling) on the first fleet, and if so if any offspring were recorded in NSW? cheers, matt Matthew D. Hall Washington, DC

Lesley, Many thanks. How do they expect us to find anything or anyone :-) Arnie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lesley Uebel" <ckennedy@bigpond.net.au> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 3:29 PM Subject: Re: [PJ] perry >H Arnie > > Mary was about 20 years of age when she arrived in 1815. The Old Bailey > gives > her age at 19 when she was convicted in 1814. > > > What was she doing between arrival and the 1828 NSW Census ?? She > married :) > She obtained permission to marry Frederick Salmon in 1817 at Parramatta. > > If you check the Colonial Secretary Index you will find the following > > PERRY, Mary. Per "Admiral Gambier" > > 1817 Apr 7,19 > Re permission to marry at Parramatta (Reel 6005; 4/3496 pp.118-9) > > > This is incorrect as are over 25% of the other marriages noted on that > index - > as I found when I transcribed the marriage permissions between 1810 and > 1825. . > It should read that Mary arrived on the Northampton. > > On checking the 1822 General Muster and the 1823/4/5 General Muster List I > see > that my transcription was correct as they have her listed as Mary Salmon > arriving on the Northampton. > > They do not appear to have had any children and probably separated in the > mid > 1820's > > regards > > Lesley Uebel > mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au > CLAIM A CONVICT > http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of fletch > Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 2:59 PM > To: AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com > Subject: [PJ] perry > > > Hi List, > > I have a Mary Perry, who at the age of 31, arrived in PJ per " > Northhampton " in > 1815 to serve a 7 year sentence. > > According to the Col. Sec. papers 1788-1825 she was to be employed at the > Factory at Parramatta on June 23 1815. > > According to the 1828 census she is noted as being Free by Servitude, > Servant to > George Richards. > > Being 13 years after her arrival she had obviously served out her time and > was > wondering if she would have still been employed / assigned to the Factory > at > Parramatta or was she working else where before she ended up in George > Richards > employ ? > > Any ideas. > > Regards > > Arnie > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

H Arnie Mary was about 20 years of age when she arrived in 1815. The Old Bailey gives her age at 19 when she was convicted in 1814. What was she doing between arrival and the 1828 NSW Census ?? She married :) She obtained permission to marry Frederick Salmon in 1817 at Parramatta. If you check the Colonial Secretary Index you will find the following PERRY, Mary. Per "Admiral Gambier" 1817 Apr 7,19 Re permission to marry at Parramatta (Reel 6005; 4/3496 pp.118-9) This is incorrect as are over 25% of the other marriages noted on that index - as I found when I transcribed the marriage permissions between 1810 and 1825. . It should read that Mary arrived on the Northampton. On checking the 1822 General Muster and the 1823/4/5 General Muster List I see that my transcription was correct as they have her listed as Mary Salmon arriving on the Northampton. They do not appear to have had any children and probably separated in the mid 1820's regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of fletch Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 2:59 PM To: AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com Subject: [PJ] perry Hi List, I have a Mary Perry, who at the age of 31, arrived in PJ per " Northhampton " in 1815 to serve a 7 year sentence. According to the Col. Sec. papers 1788-1825 she was to be employed at the Factory at Parramatta on June 23 1815. According to the 1828 census she is noted as being Free by Servitude, Servant to George Richards. Being 13 years after her arrival she had obviously served out her time and was wondering if she would have still been employed / assigned to the Factory at Parramatta or was she working else where before she ended up in George Richards employ ? Any ideas. Regards Arnie

Hi List, I have a Mary Perry, who at the age of 31, arrived in PJ per " Northhampton " in 1815 to serve a 7 year sentence. According to the Col. Sec. papers 1788-1825 she was to be employed at the Factory at Parramatta on June 23 1815. According to the 1828 census she is noted as being Free by Servitude, Servant to George Richards. Being 13 years after her arrival she had obviously served out her time and was wondering if she would have still been employed / assigned to the Factory at Parramatta or was she working else where before she ended up in George Richards employ ? Any ideas. Regards Arnie p.s. thanks to all who replied re " Sydney Hotels 1815-1830 "

Hi, I have checked the index of a book I have on the children of the first fleet. There is no Rawlins mentioned. The closest name would be a Lawson/Rossen/Rawson. Regards Jan D -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lesley Uebel Sent: Wednesday, 18 February 2009 1:51 PM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PJ] RAWLINS first fleet No, none on the First Fleet to my knowledge regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Matthew Hall Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 3:39 PM To: AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com Subject: [PJ] RAWLINS first fleet Hi all, I was wondering if there was a RAWLINS (or close spelling) on the first fleet, and if so if any offspring were recorded in NSW? cheers, matt Matthew D. Hall Washington, DC ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Lesley and Jan. I've been playing around with census indexes and found in the 1851 census a Jonathan Rawlins, widower, aged 67, of 'no profession' and 'partly' deaf or blind, living in Marylebone, Middlesex. His stated place of birth is 'Sidney Cove'. This makes his approximate date of birth 1784, so I'd wondered if he was born in the first few years of the colony, incorrect about his date of birth, or perhaps fanciful, though 'Sydney Cove' is a fairly specific place to state birth (most state simply Sydney). There's nothing in the NSW BDM that seems close. cheers, matt ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 14:12:09 +0900 > From: "Jan" <boris52@iprimus.com.au> > Subject: Re: [PJ] RAWLINS first fleet > To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <004901c99187$73e1a530$5ba4ef90$@com.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi, > I have checked the index of a book I have on the children of the first > fleet. > There is no Rawlins mentioned. > The closest name would be a Lawson/Rossen/Rawson. > > Regards > Jan D > > -- Matthew D. Hall Washington, DC cell: +1 410 733 9444 home: +1 202 370 6431

Hi all, I was wondering if there was a RAWLINS (or close spelling) on the first fleet, and if so if any offspring were recorded in NSW? cheers, matt -- Matthew D. Hall Washington, DC cell: +1 410 733 9444 home: +1 202 370 6431