Thanks to all who have replied re. Ester Abrahams, Just what I was looking for. Wal carter

My tow-penneth worth. In Ireland once we asked at St Michael's Granary in Limerick city about old newspaper records. Told none existed back to 1827 so off we went to the Library to fill in some time. Someone asked me if I was okay? I'm fine I said but wouldn't it make my day if you had newspapers on film going back to 1827. She opened a drawer crock full of films and asked me which one I wanted! I subsequently found the trial records for my Bridget Finucan(e) of Ballybrood Co Limerick and asked could I photocopy the page from the film-reader. I was told I could but I had to take the film into (guess where) St Michael's!! To use their machine. This sadly is a very true story. Barbara Corrigan.

Hi Wal A very good book published last year on George Johnston and Easter Abrahams is Marine Officer - Convict Wife by Alan Roberts - cost about $30. Published by the Annandale Urban Research Association. It gives a very good balanced view of their family life and their children. Some other well known publications give biased views about some aspects of their lives. I am not related, one of my ancestors was involved in some land dealings that later involved George. And for those interested has a bit on the location of Brickfield Hill, saying it was the bit of George Street from the Town Hall down to the bottom of the slope. cheers Grahame On 24/02/2009, at 4:09 PM, walcarter wrote: > Hi Listers. > Trying to find details about Ester Abrahams per Prince of Wales > 1st fleet. Was she the same woman who married Major George > Johnson ? also any details of her sentence and where & when born. > Regards > Wal Carter > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT- > JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

At 04:09 PM 24/02/2009, you wrote: Wal Esther Abrahams on the First Fleet was sentenced to 7 years transportation at the Old Bailey on 30th August 1786 for stealing a length of black lace. She was Johnson's defacto wife from the time of their arrival although they weren't married until 1814. The daughter Rosannah was born on 18 March 1887 in Newgate prison. She sometimes used the surname Julian. Esther's marriage also used Julian as her own surname. There are a few books about her, chapters and references in Australian Jewish and general history books, and articles in the journal of the Australian Jewish Historical Society. Her tale is an important part of the early story of Annandale in Sydney. Two other relatives came to Australia. A niece of Esther Abrahams, Mary Jones (aka Julia Emanuel) was transported on the Grenada in 1835. When her son married he stated his mother's maiden name was Julian. A great-nephew Michael Abrahams arrived free in 1832, and was sentenced in Sydney in 1836 for swindling and sent to Van Diemen's Land How are you related to her? Gary ================================== >Hi Listers. >Trying to find details about Ester Abrahams per Prince of Wales 1st >fleet. Was she the same woman who married Major George Johnson ? >also any details of her sentence and where & when born. >Regards >Wal Carter > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word >'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________ Gary Luke ~ gary@feraltek.com.au Sydney, Australia

Hi Wal A few people have claimed her on my web site. You can also find her trial details on the Old Bailey web site. he was tried in 1786. http://www.oldbaileyonline.org.uk/forms/formMain.jsp Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of walcarter Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 4:09 PM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: [PJ] Ester Abrahams Hi Listers. Trying to find details about Ester Abrahams per Prince of Wales 1st fleet. Was she the same woman who married Major George Johnson ? also any details of her sentence and where & when born. Regards Wal Carter

Yes, they had a few children and eventually married. Suggest you join Clan Johnston - they have a database of JOHNSTONs in Australia and will be able to put you in touch with others researching Esther ABRAHAMS. Clan Johnston/e http://www.johnston.asn.au/ Genealogical Officer & Clan Archivist: Des Johnstone E-mail: valdesj@bigpond.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "walcarter" <walandjune@dodo.com.au> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 4:09 PM Subject: [PJ] Ester Abrahams Hi Listers. Trying to find details about Ester Abrahams per Prince of Wales 1st fleet. Was she the same woman who married Major George Johnson ? also any details of her sentence and where & when born. Regards Wal Carter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Susan & Lesley It's been interesting following this thread. I have an old book published by Tyrell's Limited, 99 Castlereagh St, Sydney in 1920 - titled 'The Story of Old George Street: A Chapter in Old Sydney' by Charles H. Bertie, Fellow RAHS [author of 'Old Sydney'; 'Stories of Old Sydney'; and 'The Story of Vaucluse House' etc. Page 37: has a photo of 'George Street south about 1883'. It is captioned: 'Portion of the DOG and DUCK HOTEL which is visible, stood on the western side of George Street, about midway between Engine Street and Valentine lane.' An extract from the text states: 'There was no likelihood of the teamsters who came to the Haymarket suffering from thirst. I have before me a plan of this district in 1842, and between Orchard's corner and Hay Street there are no less than five public-houses. On the corner itself, just on the bend, stood, until comparatively recent times, the old WHEATSHEAF INN, which occupied about two-thirds of the footway - leaving but three of four feet for the traffic to pass. What landlord could ask for more? A door in the middle of the footway of George Street! A little lower down the street was the DOG and DUCK, a great resort of the waggoners and men from the country. Next to that was the old BLACK SWAN, then came the STEAM ENGINE, and after that the ODDFELLOW. In addition to these, there were other public houses in the vicinity, notably the WOOLPACK and the SQUARE and COMPASS, patronised mainly by the turfites of the period.' [?? What are turfites] My interest: In my family history I have a note that there is a connection to the SQUARE and COMPASS Inn: Notice: for John FRANCIS of the Square and Compass Inn, George St, South [Sydney] of the funeral of his wife Jane [nee L'Andre or Landers born 11 Aug 1811 in Parramatta, NSW]. Notice in SMH 27 & 28.3.1851. [Mind you, another record says she died 28 Mar 1856?]. This John FRANCIS was the fifth child of Thomas and Honora Francis and born at Castlereagh circa 1807. His father, Thomas FRANCIS arrived as a convict sentenced to 14 years on board ship 'Admiral Barrington' 1791. Third Fleet. Died 3 Sep 1820 aged 56yrs. Buried: Castlereagh. His mother, Honorah/Honoria/Norah COLLINS was a convict sent out for 7 years from Kerry, Ireland on the "Marquis Cornwallis" in March 1795. Died 1837 aged 67yrs. I believe that their first three children [born to Thomas Francis & Honoria/Norah Collins] were baptised on their parent's wedding day 3.7.1801 at St. John's, Parramatta! Minister: Samuel Marsden. Wedding witnesses were Michael Collins & Mary Ward [both illiterate] - but I haven't been able to link Michael Collins with Honoria/Norah - although it's likely they were related. Hope some of the Dog and Duck info helps - and you are able to find a copy of this book in a Library near you to have a look at the photo. The book contains lots of early George Street (and surrounds) illustrations - including 'The First Picture of Sydney - in 1788' drawn by Cptn John Hunter on 20 Aug 1788. Shows the 1st hospital & flagstaff [near Loftus St] & canvas hut of Govnr Phillip, the 1st Govt. House. Cheers Jennie W.A. -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Susan Lamberton Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 3:28 PM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PJ] Sydney Hotels 1815 to 1830 Hi all, Does anyone have any info/photos/tales of the "Dog and Duck" or "Horse and Jockey" hotels in Sydney run by the Hanslows, or the "Kingston Hotel run by George Davis? Thanks,

Hi Listers. Trying to find details about Ester Abrahams per Prince of Wales 1st fleet. Was she the same woman who married Major George Johnson ? also any details of her sentence and where & when born. Regards Wal Carter

Thanks Robyn, I would appreciate anything at all .. as am interested in the general history of the times too. Contact me off list with anything. My ancestor would be very very very minor in all this (as we no doubt come from a very poor Irish family), and hence he is unlikely to be listed in any general texts on the matter. His wife actually petitioned the government for his releasement, as she termed it ... stating about how he was an unbelievably loyal chappie (implying there must be some awful mistak I guess ??). She suggested he should be returned to her and his family, but they still sent him to 'Botany Bay' or Sydney nonetheless - and so that was the end of that family of eight as a unit, since he remarried here (as I believe most exiles would have done). I understand that such petitions were fairly standard and that the person they were sent to probably never even bothered to read them. Strangely enough though, this wife's plea survives ... somewhere (as someone in the family got hold of a copy of it) but precisely where it is I do not know of either (the Dublin "Castle papers" would be a first guess). Best Regards, John Byrnes (Sydney) ~~~~~ At 09:39 AM 24/02/2009 +1100, Robyn wrote: >John >Irish research is very challenging, I happen to have at the moment Sir >Richard Musgrave's history of the 1798 rebellion. it's very loyalist & >anti papist & although not a genealogical text does list a lot of names >of participants on both sides. I could have a look for your ancestor's >name, no guarantee but a possibility, if of course you haven't already >consulted this tome >Robyn Hardie >On Tuesday, February 24, 2009, at 02:10 AM, John wrote: > >> >> >> >> Hello, >> >> >> >> >> My ancestor was supposedly trialled/exiled as a United Irishman in >> 1798 ,, >> but I've been unable to find any records at all on him in Ireland. >> >> Regards, >> >> >> >> >> John

Oops, I see it's probably the mother you want of course, there is more info on her too. Jan -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of walcarter Sent: Tuesday, 24 February 2009 2:09 PM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: [PJ] Ester Abrahams Hi Listers. Trying to find details about Ester Abrahams per Prince of Wales 1st fleet. Was she the same woman who married Major George Johnson ? also any details of her sentence and where & when born. Regards Wal Carter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Wal, Just reached out to take a peek in this book I have on children of the first fleet and find there is quite a bit on your Ester Abrams. Not sure about copy write rules, as to how much I can copy? But it says she was born in Newgate prison March 18, 1787. To a convict mother of the same name. If you like I can scan the rest, or type it out a little later. Regards Jan -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of walcarter Sent: Tuesday, 24 February 2009 2:09 PM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: [PJ] Ester Abrahams Hi Listers. Trying to find details about Ester Abrahams per Prince of Wales 1st fleet. Was she the same woman who married Major George Johnson ? also any details of her sentence and where & when born. Regards Wal Carter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you John, No mention of either of those hotels in the book. The Sands Directory of 1858 mentions both places. Licensee : Hotel : Location Davison, George Sir Richard Bourke Camperdown Fernandez, D Sir Maurice O'Connell Riley St, Woolloomooloo Robinson, John Sir Maurice O'Connell Elizabeth & Hunter Sts Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of John Caling Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 12:20 PM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PJ] Sydney Hotels 1815 to 1830 Hi Lesley, Thank you for this interesting insight to the early hotel industry in the colony. Does you book mention the Sir Richard Bourke Hotel at 8 Riley Street, Woolloomooloo or the Sir Maurice O'Connell hotel which I think may have been the re-named Sir Richard Bourke Hotel? My GG Uncle, George Copas (Marquis of Huntley (4)) applied for and received a Conditional Pardon in 1846. He was a cab proprietor between 1855 and 1861 and in 1861 he became an inn keeper at the Sir Richard Bourke Hotel. The Sands Directories reveal a variation of the hotel's street number and also reveal that either the Sir Richard Bourke Hotel had its name changed to the Sir Maurice O'Connell Inn or that George became the licensee of the new hotel bearing the latter's name. The 1867 & 1868 Sands directories list the Sir Maurice O'Connell Hotel as being at 14 Riley Street, Woolloomooloo while the 1869 directory lists the hotel at 6 Riley Street. Confusion continues with the 1870 directory which lists the hotel at 10 & 12 Riley Street, while the 1871 directory lists 12 & 14 Riley Street as being the address of the Hotel. George's funeral notice states 12 Riley St.. George also acquired property that is now known as 112 - 114 Oxford St and died leaving a substantial legacy to his family, charities and friends. George also travelled back to England some time between 1855 and 1864 and brought his wife out to the colony so the hotel trade must have been quite lucrative. I would be most interested in any mention of either of the above hotels in your book. Cheers, John Caling Currimundi, Qld.

OK, thanks Lesley JC -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lesley Uebel Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 11:43 AM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PJ] Sydney Hotels 1815 to 1830 Thank you John, No mention of either of those hotels in the book. The Sands Directory of 1858 mentions both places. Licensee : Hotel : Location Davison, George Sir Richard Bourke Camperdown Fernandez, D Sir Maurice O'Connell Riley St, Woolloomooloo Robinson, John Sir Maurice O'Connell Elizabeth & Hunter Sts Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html

Hi Lesley, Thank you for this interesting insight to the early hotel industry in the colony. Does you book mention the Sir Richard Bourke Hotel at 8 Riley Street, Woolloomooloo or the Sir Maurice O'Connell hotel which I think may have been the re-named Sir Richard Bourke Hotel? My GG Uncle, George Copas (Marquis of Huntley (4)) applied for and received a Conditional Pardon in 1846. He was a cab proprietor between 1855 and 1861 and in 1861 he became an inn keeper at the Sir Richard Bourke Hotel. The Sands Directories reveal a variation of the hotel's street number and also reveal that either the Sir Richard Bourke Hotel had its name changed to the Sir Maurice O'Connell Inn or that George became the licensee of the new hotel bearing the latter's name. The 1867 & 1868 Sands directories list the Sir Maurice O'Connell Hotel as being at 14 Riley Street, Woolloomooloo while the 1869 directory lists the hotel at 6 Riley Street. Confusion continues with the 1870 directory which lists the hotel at 10 & 12 Riley Street, while the 1871 directory lists 12 & 14 Riley Street as being the address of the Hotel. George's funeral notice states 12 Riley St.. George also acquired property that is now known as 112 - 114 Oxford St and died leaving a substantial legacy to his family, charities and friends. George also travelled back to England some time between 1855 and 1864 and brought his wife out to the colony so the hotel trade must have been quite lucrative. I would be most interested in any mention of either of the above hotels in your book. Cheers, John Caling Currimundi, Qld. -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lesley Uebel Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 10:07 AM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: [PJ] Sydney Hotels 1815 to 1830 Hi all, I have an interesting book called "Inns of Australia" by Paul McGuire - my edition was published in 1912. There is an index in the back of many of the names of Inns (hotels) and also the names of many of the owners in NSW, Vic., Tasmania, WA and S.A.. <SNIP>

Hi all, I have an interesting book called "Inns of Australia" by Paul McGuire - my edition was published in 1912. There is an index in the back of many of the names of Inns (hotels) and also the names of many of the owners in NSW, Vic., Tasmania, WA and S.A.. Taken from pages 33,34 and 35 When Macquarie arrived to end the Military Junta’s reign, there were seventy-five licences in Sydney alone. Macquarie order that they be reduced to twenty. One was to be given on the road to Parramatta; three in Parramatta; one on the road beyond it to the Hawkesbury; and six at Windsor and thereabouts. Macquarie’s order did not stand. In 1810, the Judge Advocate listed fifty beer licencees for Sydney (a lesser number perhaps were licensed to sell spirits). The Bigge Report gives 104 licences for 1811, 117 for 1812, 93 for 1813, 110 for 1814, 85 for 1815, 70 for 1816, 75 for 1817, 94 for 1818, 62 for 1819, 46 for 1820. Macquarie cut at the shanty trade and illicit stills. He encouraged reputable publicans to improve their premises. He persuaded the British Government to a reasonable duty on spirits and an unrestricted import, to discourage moonshiners. He won leave for a distillery to take up the grain surplus on occasion. Through most of the Macquarie reign, rum continued as a powerful element of the economy. When John O’Hearne contracted in 1812 to restore the stone bridge over the Tank Stream near the Cove, he was paid with 660 gallons of rum and a bonus of 15 gallons for good workmanship. Doubtless his profit was sufficient. Australia’s coal sold in India for Bengal rum. And Sydney’s Hospital (which came to house the Parliament) was built by Riley, Blaxcell and D’Arcy Wentworth in return for the necessary labour and a permit to import 45,000 gallons of rum. Forty nine public houses and their licensees are named in the Sydney Gazette of April 19, 1817, thirty one in Sydney and eighteen out of town. The Sydney houses were The Green Man kept by John Tindall The Cat and Fiddle, Thomas Collicott The Feathers, Charles Clarke The Blacksmith’s Arms, William David The Dog and Duck, Ambrose McGuigan The Foul Anchor, Ed. Redmond The King’s Head, Sam Fowler The Windmill, Jas. Vandercomb The Bee Hive, F. Mourant The Saint Patrick, Stephen Murphy The Duke of Wellington, William Walsh The Greyhound, Sarah Hazard The Punch Bowl, Thomas Wilford The Bee Hive, Japhet White The Westmoreland Arms, Esther Bradley The Pine Apple, Nathaniel Lawrence The Black Swan, Richard Palmer The New Zealander, Benjamin Morris The Golden Fleece, John Laurie The Green Gate, Thomas Hanson The Blue Lion, William Board The Lord Nelson, Joseph Salter The Saint Pauls, Ann Cooper The Unicorn, Jas. Byrne The Grapes, Samuel Terry The Hope and Anchor, Phoebe Turnstall, The Lord Nelson’s Victory, Henry Henry The Pot of Beer, William Kennedy The Bunch of Grapes, Mary Dwyer. We have not been able to find a single survivor by site and title in modern Sydney. Sydney has significantly been less tenacious than Melbourne and Adelaide of the old names. Inn names and signs are fascinating themes for the connoisseur of social history. Most of ours were brought from Britain; though we recall S. B.’s brave local note of The Three Jolly Settlers. The antipodean scene suggested The Macquarie Arms, The Governor King, The New Zealander and probably The Windmill; while out of town appeared The Hawkesbury Settler, with The First and Last at Castlereagh marking for a time the frontiers of settlement. Other signs have echoes of antiquity, The Seven Stars may have derived from Manchester’s inn licensed under Edward III. The New Inn had one of the oldest of titles; there were New Inns, no doubt in Thebes and Babylon and Tyre. The Lord Nelson and Nelson’s Victory recalled recent glories; the Duke of Wellington had to wait another year or two for his Sydney honours. Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html

Hi I would appreciate that politics be excluded from this discussion. I would also like to remind some of the listers to SNIP emails. Thank you Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au List Admin

Hi Lesley and others I notice the use of the word "lumber" in our communications to refer to the timber mills where trees were sawn into useable pieces of timber and the product produced as lumber. Lumber certainly is a term used in the US and Canada and the feller of trees or a worker in timber as a lumberman or lumberjack. I ask was the term "lumber" also commonly used in PJ in those early days of the colony or was timber more the normally used description. Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lesley Uebel" <ckennedy@bigpond.net.au> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 3:20 PM Subject: Re: [PJ] Lumber Yard & Convicts > > Hi Jenny > > There was also a Lumber Yard at Parramatta. > > Daniel was employed at the Lumber Yard in 1821, but that does not mean > that he > was still employed there a few months later. The convicts employed in the > Lumbar > Yard were Blacksmiths, Carpenters, Sawyers, Shoemakers, Tailors etc > > Because he was relocated to Emu Plains between 1823 and 1825 does not mean > that > he was employed in a Lumber Yard at that place as he could have been > employed > doing anything for the government. > > Re the 1822 General Muster - there are probably many people missing from > it - > perhaps some because they were missed by the people who transcribed these > record. > > I cannot find a Ticket of Leave for Daniel, so perhaps he remained working > for > the government until his sentence expired in 1827. > > regards > Lesley Uebel > mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au > CLAIM A CONVICT > http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Jenny > T > Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 1:19 PM > To: AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com > Subject: [PJ] Lumber Yard & Convicts > > > Hello List > > This is my brick wall; I am trying to find the Goverment Lumber Yard that > my > convict Daniel Canvin 1820> was employed. I had it all nicely pigeon holed > and I > was quoting in my research the Lumber Yard that was in Sydney Town corner > of > George and Bridge Street. I then obtained the General Muster List of NSW > 1823, > 1824, 1825, and here I find him under Goverment Employment at Emu Plains > with a > spelling of Cannivan. I now have to rethink my research. > > I was as wondering if anyone knew much about convicts at Emu Plains and if > it > had a Lumber Yard 1820- 1827. I am aware that Daniel ended up working for > the > Badgery Family all of his life however I am not sure when his Goverment > Employemt ended and his work for the Badgery family began. I am also > wondering > why I can't find Daniel in 1822 Muster > > I'd be so grateful for any help. > > Jenny > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello lesley No he was not a convict ...it is about the pub I am interested in. What its name was after and before it was the Miners Exchange (it was this in 1874 and my ggg grandfather was suppose to be the publican and he fell down the stairs and he died). Just after any history of the pub Michelle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lesley Uebel" <ckennedy@bigpond.net.au> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 9:02 PM Subject: Re: [PJ] Sydney Hotels 1815 to 1830 > Hi Michelle > > Was the owner a convict who had served his sentence or had been pardoned? > > regards > > > Lesley Uebel > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

John Irish research is very challenging, I happen to have at the moment Sir Richard Musgrave's history of the 1798 rebellion. it's very loyalist & anti papist & although not a genealogical text does list a lot of names of participants on both sides. I could have a look for your ancestor's name, no guarantee but a possibility, if of course you haven't already consulted this tome Robyn Hardie On Tuesday, February 24, 2009, at 02:10 AM, John wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > > My ancestor was supposedly trialled/exiled as a United Irishman in > 1798 ,, > but I've been unable to find any records at all on him in Ireland. > > Regards, > > > > > John > > (Sydney) > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > At 09:37 PM 23/02/2009 +1100, you wrote: > >> Gerry, >> >> I spend enough time grumbling about my own government, so perhaps I >> shouldn't grumble about yours. However , having 15 of my 16 g g >> grandparents >> Irish (and the sixteenth, born here, half Irish) I'll do it anyway, >> though >> with best intentions. >> >> Is there not a 50 year limit on copyright? If British Library can put >> their >> set of Dublin Freeman's Journal on free computer access website >> without >> Irish lawsuits then surely Irish Government Libraries could do so. . >> Here in >> Australia the National Library is digitising our newspapers back to >> white >> settlement (1788) and up to the copyright limit of 1955 - all with >> free >> computer access to anyone anywhere in the world. See >> http://ndpbeta.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home >> >> Moreover, the NSW State Government had recently provided $Aus10 >> million to >> digitise all State Library card indexes back over a hundred years >> with a >> view to free computer access – a boon for genealogists. >> >> And NSW Govt Archives provides access to extensive immigration >> records in >> the 19C. Ships, names, families, dob, origin, profession etc etc. All >> free >> and to anyone anywhere in the world. See >> http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/. >> >> In NSW I have free computer access to State Government website which >> gives >> me Births (incl names of parents , location, year, and certificate >> reference); marriages (full names, year, location and certificate >> reference); and deaths (name, parents, location , year and certificate >> reference) from 1788 to early 20 Century. All free and including >> church records of the period prior to official records. See >> http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/searchHistoricalRecords.htm >> And >> full detail from certificates is then available for a price much >> discounted >> if not required for legal purposes. >> >> All free – that is, after we pay our income taxes. And absolutely >> free to >> overseas based people.. >> >> So it is frustrating for us out here in the Colonies to be billed on >> the >> basis of guessing whether the minimal detail is "ours". I recently >> sought >> information, based on the minimal initial BDM information on one well >> known >> and well promoted site. All wrong calls! And it cost $Aus 70. But I'd >> happily pay this if the website gave more detail enabling us to go >> beyond >> lottery- like bids for information. >> >> So, in my view, the Irish Government appears to have ignored its >> important >> heritage- and its loyal diaspora. >> >> >> >> Regards >> >> Frank M. >> >> >> 2009/2/23 <aus-pt-jackson-convicts-request@rootsweb.com> >> >>> >>> >>> The Port Jackson Convicts Mailing List >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: Dublin Trial Records (Gerry Kennedy) >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> - >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 08:06:34 -0000 >>> From: "Gerry Kennedy" <gerrynkennedy@eircom.net> >>> Subject: Re: [PJ] Dublin Trial Records >>> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> >>> Message-ID: <0B0605A4F64640A1BAAD1F7D72D2A5FD@owner> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>> Frank, >>> >>> This is a commercial enterprise that the newspaper owners (who >>> presumably >>> own the copyright) have done, not the Irish Government. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com >>> [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of >>> Frank >>> Murray >>> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 12:10 PM >>> To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: [PJ] Dublin Trial Records >>> >>> Ron, >>> >>> Presumably you have a National Library readers Ticket. (Anyone may >>> apply >>> from all over Australia. See the NLA website.) Go to NLA webpage and >>> to >>> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message >

Hello, I've long agreed all government information should be made free and downloadable. And it's nice to see various agencies going that route. However much Irish stuff got burned I understand, like when the Four Courts building was bombarded in Dublin. So sadly there's no way of bringing that back to life or cognisance. I can't find my (paternal/surname) ancestors in Ireland at all; whereas I can find heaps of other ones in England .. usually easily/reliably back to late 1770s, and maybe the odd 1600s trace too with leaps of faith. I've been pleased with English records, such as parish register books. Re the earlier comments that the Irish government is making a "cash cow" of information supply, where on earth does it get such ideas from? Was Maggie Thatcher Irish or Scottish? My ancestor was supposedly trialled/exiled as a United Irishman in 1798 ,, but I've been unable to find any records at all on him in Ireland. Regards, John (Sydney) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ At 09:37 PM 23/02/2009 +1100, you wrote: >Gerry, > >I spend enough time grumbling about my own government, so perhaps I >shouldn't grumble about yours. However , having 15 of my 16 g g grandparents >Irish (and the sixteenth, born here, half Irish) I'll do it anyway, though >with best intentions. > >Is there not a 50 year limit on copyright? If British Library can put their >set of Dublin Freeman's Journal on free computer access website without >Irish lawsuits then surely Irish Government Libraries could do so. . Here in >Australia the National Library is digitising our newspapers back to white >settlement (1788) and up to the copyright limit of 1955 - all with free >computer access to anyone anywhere in the world. See >http://ndpbeta.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home > >Moreover, the NSW State Government had recently provided $Aus10 million to >digitise all State Library card indexes back over a hundred years with a >view to free computer access – a boon for genealogists. > >And NSW Govt Archives provides access to extensive immigration records in >the 19C. Ships, names, families, dob, origin, profession etc etc. All free >and to anyone anywhere in the world. See http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/. > >In NSW I have free computer access to State Government website which gives >me Births (incl names of parents , location, year, and certificate >reference); marriages (full names, year, location and certificate >reference); and deaths (name, parents, location , year and certificate >reference) from 1788 to early 20 Century. All free and including >church records of the period prior to official records. See >http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/searchHistoricalRecords.htm And >full detail from certificates is then available for a price much discounted >if not required for legal purposes. > >All free – that is, after we pay our income taxes. And absolutely free to >overseas based people.. > >So it is frustrating for us out here in the Colonies to be billed on the >basis of guessing whether the minimal detail is "ours". I recently sought >information, based on the minimal initial BDM information on one well known >and well promoted site. All wrong calls! And it cost $Aus 70. But I'd >happily pay this if the website gave more detail enabling us to go beyond >lottery- like bids for information. > >So, in my view, the Irish Government appears to have ignored its important >heritage- and its loyal diaspora. > > > >Regards > >Frank M. > > >2009/2/23 <aus-pt-jackson-convicts-request@rootsweb.com> > >> >> >> The Port Jackson Convicts Mailing List >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Dublin Trial Records (Gerry Kennedy) >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 08:06:34 -0000 >> From: "Gerry Kennedy" <gerrynkennedy@eircom.net> >> Subject: Re: [PJ] Dublin Trial Records >> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> >> Message-ID: <0B0605A4F64640A1BAAD1F7D72D2A5FD@owner> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Frank, >> >> This is a commercial enterprise that the newspaper owners (who presumably >> own the copyright) have done, not the Irish Government. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Frank >> Murray >> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 12:10 PM >> To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [PJ] Dublin Trial Records >> >> Ron, >> >> Presumably you have a National Library readers Ticket. (Anyone may apply >> from all over Australia. See the NLA website.) Go to NLA webpage and to >> > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >