Hi John In relation the BDMs, it seems it was only recorded for burials but not on death certificates (ie post 1856). Some of the proforma burial certificates I hold show the words "Quality or Profession (if bond name of ship)". This seems to indicate that the minister performing the burial service was required to note the name of the ship if the deceased was still a convict. That is, it was not required if the deceased had served their time, ie an ex-convict, or was "free". I have 13 burial certificates of people who arrived in Australia and the ship is noted on five of them. All five were not convicts at any time. For the two who were ex-convicts, the ship is not recorded. So it looks like pot luck. I have not seen the ship's name recorded on a civil registration BDM certificate, nor a church marriage certificate, and the only time I have seen it recorded on a baptism certificate is when the child was born on the ship and then baptised after arrival. Also the ship was recorded in musters and the 1828 census. For convicts the name of the ship was recorded in other official documents as a means of identification. Sometimes the name of a ship can be mentioned in an obituary. And sometimes the name of the ship is recorded in army documents for soldiers and their families. Another source is the shipping intelligence column in the paper of port of arrival for "free". There may be other records where the name of the ship is recorded when telling the history of a person. cheers Grahame On 24/03/2009, at 12:21 AM, John Humphrey wrote: > > Does anyone know whether settlers who "came free" had the name of > their > ship recorded in birth, marriage, death and other documents? (And > if so, > why?) Or was that only done for convicts? John >>

Hi all, in answer to John, I have two "Free settlers" and nothing about the ship they arrived on is noted on their marriage or death certificate. Death certificates show how many years in the colony. Robin Harper

He could have come as an infant with his mother on board the Janus that arrived in 1820 with 104 females. Having looked at a number of shipping books that seems the best possibility from the J names listed. Elizabeth Roberts. -----Original Message----- From: Thomas & Kayleen Murphy [mailto:nicktim@optusnet.com.au] Sent: Sunday, 22 March 2009 7:56 PM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: [PJ] Assistance re Death Certificate Hi everyone, Seeking to tap into you collective wealth of knowledge. I have sighted the micro-fiche death record of my GG Grandfather Thomas MURPHY which lists; Name - Thomas MURPHY Age - 26 years Abode - Parramatta When Buried - March 3 Ships Name - Jansey Quality or Profession - Labourer By Whom Ceremony Performed - Nicholas Joseph Coffey I cannot find anything else about this person ie: was he a convict or free settler ? My main concern is that I cannot find any record of any ship arriving in Australia with the name Jansey or similar. Is there anyway that I, or an agent on my behalf can get access to the actual original paper death certificate, if it exists, to see if there was a transcription error ? Thanks Tom

Hi Martin Up to volume 123 of BDM were copied onto microfilm and released for sale, purchased by some Libraries and historical societies at the time. More were given out to Libraries by the Government, to country areas in ARK kits. Then someone [Government?] changed their mind about releasing the records and no more volumes were copied. The first entry is in Volume 115 but the second is in volume 146 so has to be purchased. I am not 100% sure about the double entries but think one is the result of copying the full church entry and the other a copy sent in by the church, for BDM of what they required at the time. Karen On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Martin Steer <martinsteer@maxi.net.au>wrote: > Karen Hodges <rowantreek@gmail.com> writes: > > > > > On BDM there are two records of this burial. The first one would be on > > Mircofilm which can be viewed at libraries that have an Archive Resource > Kit > > and in alot of city Libraries. > > > > V1845255 115/1845 MURPHY THOMAS AGE 26 > > > > You would look at volume 115 scroll through the film to 1845 and then > look > > for the date 3 March to see an image of this record held. > > > > V1845371 146/1845 MURPHY THOMAS AGE 26 > > > > This one you would need to purchase from a transcript agent or BDM to > know > > what details are on it. > > > > Karen, would you mind clarifying the difference between these two index > entries, i.e. how do you know which one is in ARK, why is one not there, > how come there is more than one record? > > TIA, > > -- > Martin > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Karen Hodges <rowantreek@gmail.com> writes: > > On BDM there are two records of this burial. The first one would be on > Mircofilm which can be viewed at libraries that have an Archive Resource Kit > and in alot of city Libraries. > > V1845255 115/1845 MURPHY THOMAS AGE 26 > > You would look at volume 115 scroll through the film to 1845 and then look > for the date 3 March to see an image of this record held. > > V1845371 146/1845 MURPHY THOMAS AGE 26 > > This one you would need to purchase from a transcript agent or BDM to know > what details are on it. > Karen, would you mind clarifying the difference between these two index entries, i.e. how do you know which one is in ARK, why is one not there, how come there is more than one record? TIA, -- Martin

Also when he died did he die in a hospital? I discovered one of my convicts purely by chance through a hospital record which listed his ship and status FS. Also there are couple of George Mills who arrived in VDL you could check out on the AOT site. Min At 04:56 PM 22/03/2009, you wrote: >Hi Valerie > >Do you have any of his children's birth certificates after 1856? They should >list his age [maybe more actuate than the death certificate, especially if

Hi Tom On BDM there are two records of this burial. The first one would be on Mircofilm which can be viewed at libraries that have an Archive Resource Kit and in alot of city Libraries. V1845255 115/1845 MURPHY THOMAS AGE 26 You would look at volume 115 scroll through the film to 1845 and then look for the date 3 March to see an image of this record held. V1845371 146/1845 MURPHY THOMAS AGE 26 This one you would need to purchase from a transcript agent or BDM to know what details are on it. Look at the information you have to see if you have recorded the source number down. Which record above has it come from? If it is the second then go and view the first at a Library as you may find a little bit more information or it may show the ship name differently if it is an error. The actual book that the original record was written in would be held by the Church where it took place or with a head office of that Church. Depending on the Church's policies and where it was held as to whether you or someone else could view it. It might be worth checking the book below, at a Library A History of Parramatta's pioneers / compiled by James McClelland James McClelland has written alot of books about convicts shipping arrivals. If your fellow appears in his book there is a good chance he might have included the ship he arrived on. Karen On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 11:03 PM, Thomas & Kayleen Murphy < nicktim@optusnet.com.au> wrote: > Sorry all, > > Thomas Murphy's year of death was 1845. > > > Tom > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Karen Hodges" <rowantreek@gmail.com> > To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 9:11 PM > Subject: Re: [PJ] Assistance re Death Certificate > > > > Hi Tom > > > > If you post the year of death, it should help the list, to help you. > > > > Karen > > > > On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 7:56 PM, Thomas & Kayleen Murphy < > > nicktim@optusnet.com.au> wrote: > > > >> Hi everyone, > >> > >> Seeking to tap into you collective wealth of knowledge > >> > >> I have sighted the micro-fiche death record of my GG Grandfather Thomas > >> MURPHY which lists; > >> > >> Name - Thomas > >> MURPHY > >> Age - 26 years > >> Abode - Parramatta > >> When Buried - March 3 > >> Ships Name - Jansey > >> Quality or Profession - Labourer > >> By Whom Ceremony Performed - Nicholas Joseph Coffey > >> > >> > >> I cannot find anything else about this person ie: was he a convict or > >> free > >> settler ? My main concern is that I cannot find any record of any ship > >> arriving in Australia with the name Jansey or similar. Is there anyway > >> that > >> I, or an agent on my behalf can get access to the actual original paper > >> death certificate, if it exists, to see if there was a transcription > >> error ? > >> > >> > >> > >> Thanks > >> > >> > >> Tom > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Does anyone know whether settlers who "came free" had the name of their ship recorded in birth, marriage, death and other documents? (And if so, why?) Or was that only done for convicts? John > > -----Original Message----- > From: Thomas & Kayleen Murphy [mailto:nicktim@optusnet.com.au] > Sent: Sunday, 22 March 2009 7:56 PM > To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com > Subject: [PJ] Assistance re Death Certificate > > Hi everyone, > > Seeking to tap into you collective wealth of knowledge. > > I have sighted the micro-fiche death record of my GG Grandfather Thomas > MURPHY which lists; > > Name - Thomas MURPHY > Age - 26 years > Abode - Parramatta > When Buried - March 3 > Ships Name - Jansey > Quality or Profession - Labourer > By Whom Ceremony Performed - Nicholas Joseph Coffey > > > I cannot find anything else about this person ie: was he a convict or free > settler ? My main concern is that I cannot find any record of any ship > arriving in Australia with the name Jansey or similar. Is there anyway that > I, or an agent on my behalf can get access to the actual original paper > death certificate, if it exists, to see if there was a transcription error ? > > > > Thanks > > > Tom > > > >

Thanks Karen, I'll check it all out. Cheers, Jenni ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Hodges" <rowantreek@gmail.com> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 3:41 PM Subject: Re: [PJ] Crimes > Hi Jenni > > I wrote to them back in 1994 at National Archives Bishop St Dublin 8 > Ireland. > > When you email the library just check with them as they should be able to > tell you their address just in case it has changed or the records have > been > moved. If there is an index of the names, they would probably check this > for > you and let you know if he is list. > > In my case they found no reference. > > If you tell them you are interested in a photocopy of the record they may > quote you, how much if they find a record. > > Karen > > On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Jenni Kay <jenni@esc.net.au> wrote: > >> Thanks Karen, >> >> I'll follow-up on your lead to the Library at Co. Meath. Thank you. I did >> have a look at the Irish Nationl Archives but could not find any >> reference >> to the Prisoners Petitions 1777-1836. Is this an online database, or >> something I need to request them to look-up for me? >> >> Cheers, >> Jenni >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Karen Hodges" <rowantreek@gmail.com> >> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 7:20 AM >> Subject: Re: [PJ] Crimes >> >> >> > Hi Jenni >> > >> > I have had the same trouble with my Irish Convict [Patrick Conlon] from >> Co >> > Kildare tried July 1817. I know he was sentenced for theft but that is >> > all. >> > I wrote to the local county Library to find out if there was a >> > newspaper >> > account unfortunately for me, there were nil local papers at this time >> > being >> > published. You might have better luck in Co Meath. The Library should >> have >> > an email contact to ask. >> > >> > The Library in Newbridge Kildare suggested I contact the National >> Archives >> > to see if he was listed in the Prisoners Petitions 1777-1836 [ these >> > are >> > appeals from convicted people for pardons or reductions in sentence]. >> > Again >> > no luck for mine but you might find yours in these records. >> > >> > I would be interested in hearing of any other resources, that this >> > information might be found for an Irish convict in this time frame. >> > >> > Karen >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 6:35 AM, Jenni Kay <jenni@esc.net.au> wrote: >> > >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> I am having a difficult time trying to discover what crime my convict >> >> ancestor committed.. I've checked the indents ( The Port Jackson >> Convicts >> >> Anthology), Irish database, the NSW State Records and cannot find the >> >> info >> >> I'm after. This was James O'Neil of the Canada (3) arrived PJ 1815, >> trial >> >> at >> >> Co. Meath Ireland 1814, sentence to life. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jenni >> >> South Australia >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> >> AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' >> >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> > 'unsubscribe' >> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Sorry all, Thomas Murphy's year of death was 1845. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Hodges" <rowantreek@gmail.com> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [PJ] Assistance re Death Certificate > Hi Tom > > If you post the year of death, it should help the list, to help you. > > Karen > > On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 7:56 PM, Thomas & Kayleen Murphy < > nicktim@optusnet.com.au> wrote: > >> Hi everyone, >> >> Seeking to tap into you collective wealth of knowledge >> >> I have sighted the micro-fiche death record of my GG Grandfather Thomas >> MURPHY which lists; >> >> Name - Thomas >> MURPHY >> Age - 26 years >> Abode - Parramatta >> When Buried - March 3 >> Ships Name - Jansey >> Quality or Profession - Labourer >> By Whom Ceremony Performed - Nicholas Joseph Coffey >> >> >> I cannot find anything else about this person ie: was he a convict or >> free >> settler ? My main concern is that I cannot find any record of any ship >> arriving in Australia with the name Jansey or similar. Is there anyway >> that >> I, or an agent on my behalf can get access to the actual original paper >> death certificate, if it exists, to see if there was a transcription >> error ? >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> >> Tom >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Husband Ken's Irish convict was HENRY FULHAM who was tried in Dublin in 1829. And for something different this year, Ken and I were in Dublin for St Pat's day. Sandra S _________________________________________________________________ Looking for a place to manage all your online stuff? Explore the new Windows Live . http://www.microsoft.com/australia/windows/windowslive/

Hi Tom If you post the year of death, it should help the list, to help you. Karen On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 7:56 PM, Thomas & Kayleen Murphy < nicktim@optusnet.com.au> wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Seeking to tap into you collective wealth of knowledge > > I have sighted the micro-fiche death record of my GG Grandfather Thomas > MURPHY which lists; > > Name - Thomas MURPHY > Age - 26 years > Abode - Parramatta > When Buried - March 3 > Ships Name - Jansey > Quality or Profession - Labourer > By Whom Ceremony Performed - Nicholas Joseph Coffey > > > I cannot find anything else about this person ie: was he a convict or free > settler ? My main concern is that I cannot find any record of any ship > arriving in Australia with the name Jansey or similar. Is there anyway that > I, or an agent on my behalf can get access to the actual original paper > death certificate, if it exists, to see if there was a transcription error ? > > > > Thanks > > > Tom > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi everyone, Seeking to tap into you collective wealth of knowledge. I have sighted the micro-fiche death record of my GG Grandfather Thomas MURPHY which lists; Name - Thomas MURPHY Age - 26 years Abode - Parramatta When Buried - March 3 Ships Name - Jansey Quality or Profession - Labourer By Whom Ceremony Performed - Nicholas Joseph Coffey I cannot find anything else about this person ie: was he a convict or free settler ? My main concern is that I cannot find any record of any ship arriving in Australia with the name Jansey or similar. Is there anyway that I, or an agent on my behalf can get access to the actual original paper death certificate, if it exists, to see if there was a transcription error ? Thanks Tom

Valerie, Have you seen this in the Victorian PRO: MILLS GEORGE 26 JUN 1848 ANNA MARIA 459 perhaps abit young but ages were flexible. 1848 was before Victoria came into it own. regards Robyn

Thank you Lesley and Garry for your responses to my question they were a big help I wrote: I don't seem to find any month of the year when I Google 1828 census.

Hi Valerie, Have you checked in Victoria? By coincidence my gggrandfather was William George Mills, down as George Mills on his daughters death certificate, and I had a lot of trouble tracing him in NSW (it's such a common name ) till I tried BDM in Victoria and found his marriage in 1864 to Frances Slater Anderson, nee Whitworth in Prahran. My Mills family spent time in Newtown as well before ending up in Mortdale, but we can't be connected as Frances married husband number three in 1884, when your George was still alive. I've so far not been able to find a death for my George in either state. Frances went on to marry yet again, husband number four,when she was 60!! Bye, Anne _________________________________________________________________ View photos of singles in your area. Click Here http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fdating%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fchannel%2Findex%2Easpx%3Ftrackingid%3D1046247&_t=773166080&_r=Hotmail_Endtext&_m=EXT

Hi Valerie Do you have any of his children's birth certificates after 1856? They should list his age [maybe more actuate than the death certificate, especially if he has registered the birth] his birth place [it may list a town not just a county, his occupation and the home address. These may give you new clues such as finding the town of his birth, might help identify him in an oversea census. Finding him in the 1841 census, would give you a set time frame to look for his arrival. eg between 1841 and when he married. Karen On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 4:24 PM, valerie.williams < valerie.williams@internode.on.net> wrote: > Thank you Betty, Grahame and Rosslyn for your answers. > > I guess I will just keep looking for him as I really don't have anything > else to say he was a convict. > > Cheers > Valerie from Mollymook > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thank you Betty, Grahame and Rosslyn for your answers. I guess I will just keep looking for him as I really don't have anything else to say he was a convict. Cheers Valerie from Mollymook

Hi Jenni I wrote to them back in 1994 at National Archives Bishop St Dublin 8 Ireland. When you email the library just check with them as they should be able to tell you their address just in case it has changed or the records have been moved. If there is an index of the names, they would probably check this for you and let you know if he is list. In my case they found no reference. If you tell them you are interested in a photocopy of the record they may quote you, how much if they find a record. Karen On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Jenni Kay <jenni@esc.net.au> wrote: > Thanks Karen, > > I'll follow-up on your lead to the Library at Co. Meath. Thank you. I did > have a look at the Irish Nationl Archives but could not find any reference > to the Prisoners Petitions 1777-1836. Is this an online database, or > something I need to request them to look-up for me? > > Cheers, > Jenni > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Karen Hodges" <rowantreek@gmail.com> > To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 7:20 AM > Subject: Re: [PJ] Crimes > > > > Hi Jenni > > > > I have had the same trouble with my Irish Convict [Patrick Conlon] from > Co > > Kildare tried July 1817. I know he was sentenced for theft but that is > > all. > > I wrote to the local county Library to find out if there was a newspaper > > account unfortunately for me, there were nil local papers at this time > > being > > published. You might have better luck in Co Meath. The Library should > have > > an email contact to ask. > > > > The Library in Newbridge Kildare suggested I contact the National > Archives > > to see if he was listed in the Prisoners Petitions 1777-1836 [ these are > > appeals from convicted people for pardons or reductions in sentence]. > > Again > > no luck for mine but you might find yours in these records. > > > > I would be interested in hearing of any other resources, that this > > information might be found for an Irish convict in this time frame. > > > > Karen > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 6:35 AM, Jenni Kay <jenni@esc.net.au> wrote: > > > >> Hi all, > >> > >> I am having a difficult time trying to discover what crime my convict > >> ancestor committed.. I've checked the indents ( The Port Jackson > Convicts > >> Anthology), Irish database, the NSW State Records and cannot find the > >> info > >> I'm after. This was James O'Neil of the Canada (3) arrived PJ 1815, > trial > >> at > >> Co. Meath Ireland 1814, sentence to life. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Jenni > >> South Australia > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks Karen, I'll follow-up on your lead to the Library at Co. Meath. Thank you. I did have a look at the Irish Nationl Archives but could not find any reference to the Prisoners Petitions 1777-1836. Is this an online database, or something I need to request them to look-up for me? Cheers, Jenni ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Hodges" <rowantreek@gmail.com> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 7:20 AM Subject: Re: [PJ] Crimes > Hi Jenni > > I have had the same trouble with my Irish Convict [Patrick Conlon] from Co > Kildare tried July 1817. I know he was sentenced for theft but that is > all. > I wrote to the local county Library to find out if there was a newspaper > account unfortunately for me, there were nil local papers at this time > being > published. You might have better luck in Co Meath. The Library should have > an email contact to ask. > > The Library in Newbridge Kildare suggested I contact the National Archives > to see if he was listed in the Prisoners Petitions 1777-1836 [ these are > appeals from convicted people for pardons or reductions in sentence]. > Again > no luck for mine but you might find yours in these records. > > I would be interested in hearing of any other resources, that this > information might be found for an Irish convict in this time frame. > > Karen > > > > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 6:35 AM, Jenni Kay <jenni@esc.net.au> wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I am having a difficult time trying to discover what crime my convict >> ancestor committed.. I've checked the indents ( The Port Jackson Convicts >> Anthology), Irish database, the NSW State Records and cannot find the >> info >> I'm after. This was James O'Neil of the Canada (3) arrived PJ 1815, trial >> at >> Co. Meath Ireland 1814, sentence to life. >> >> Cheers, >> Jenni >> South Australia >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >