Thanks Lesley for your help. All I remember going into Globe St to re check and the records had gone to Kingswood when it first opened, is it possible for one to purchase a copy be it C. D. etc, I recall Perry M,Intyre transcribing long ago. Regards Kath.

Hi Lynne The Sydney Gazette does have an article about the fire 21 May 1814 on page 2 I don't know if it was your Andrew who did start the fire as there were a few Tailors on board including one who was 18 years of age....... compared with Andrew at approx. 30 years of age It is a long way for you to travel for a re-enactment - but an excellent excuse to travel to Sydney :) regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Lynne Kokshoorn Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 9:38 AM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PJ] AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS Digest, Vol 4, Issue 119 Thank you Lesley Yes I did see that article thank you, many years ago, the Sydney Gazette I did try to access at some stage with no luck I would really like to come to Sydney for this event it will be something quite poignant and would I love to see what the artists are doing with the burning of the Three Bees its quite an exciting thing I think to be lucky enough to be linked to that ship. And something I might regret if I dont go.I did try to get in touch with the Vivid co but I have not had a reply. Personally I dont know that Andrew did or didn't set fire to the ship it could have been anyone but he was a Tailor- I read somehwere years ago where it said the cabin boy, and he was more than a boy's age though I am not an expert in these perhaps that is a terminology from those days. Andrew Callaghan went on to give Queens evidence in a murder trial and the others were hanged, he had a very interesting life if that is the right word. He was connected to to the stealing of cloth from the Everingham family. Andrew Callagthan has left behind a large family my mother is Elma Callaghan her father Michael and traces back to Andrew's son having five sons of this own. there are some very well known family names connected to the Callaghans, some families had sixteen children my mother one of fourteen, a fascinating history isnt it. I live in nz but I love new south wales and Sydney I feel very at home there. I stand on those rocks and feel very connected, recently I did the Susannah Place tour as well, it was wonderful I have recently learnt on my mother's mother's side Thourougood-Woodbridge that they descended from the name Singleton and there is a town called Singleton my mother did not know this and she said she knew of the town as she is now 79 it was nice to be able to share this with her. once again thanks for the information. cheers Lynne nz

Hi, Keith here, first time contributor: Went to the State Records Office (with the Central Coast Family History Society), first time there as well, what a wonderful place. I looked up your reference Peter, (Series # 12216 Descriptive Note:-4/4540; microfilm copy SR Reel 605) Unfortunately there is no reference to George Dudley/ Chapman in this ledger. This is probable because the ledger covers the years 1833/34 and you say he was sent there in 1839. Anyway I photographed the "C & D" entries and will email them to you so you can check them yourself. Regards Keith -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Peter Strauss Sent: Tuesday, 17 March 2009 12:00 PM To: List PJ- Convicts; LIST- AUS- CONVICTS Subject: [PJ] LOOK UP AT NSW STATE RECORDS

Hi Kath I cannot have been that small a book. I transcribed the Convict Death Index some 9 years ago and it runs to about 200 A4 pages. Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Kath Connors Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 9:46 AM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: [PJ] convicts death register Many years ago at Globe St Sydney they help a small book that contains the death of any convict that died while in his master service, my understanding was the masters had to notify the department. Has anyone had the use of it in later years ? I have forgotten what it was called and only remember the print was very hard to read. Regards Kath

Thank you Lesley Yes I did see that article thank you, many years ago, the Sydney Gazette I did try to access at some stage with no luck I would really like to come to Sydney for this event it will be something quite poignant and would I love to see what the artists are doing with the burning of the Three Bees its quite an exciting thing I think to be lucky enough to be linked to that ship. And something I might regret if I dont go.I did try to get in touch with the Vivid co but I have not had a reply. Personally I dont know that Andrew did or didn't set fire to the ship it could have been anyone but he was a Tailor- I read somehwere years ago where it said the cabin boy, and he was more than a boy's age though I am not an expert in these perhaps that is a terminology from those days. Andrew Callaghan went on to give Queens evidence in a murder trial and the others were hanged, he had a very interesting life if that is the right word. He was connected to to the stealing of cloth from the Everingham family. Andrew Callagthan has left behind a large family my mother is Elma Callaghan her father Michael and traces back to Andrew's son having five sons of this own. there are some very well known family names connected to the Callaghans, some families had sixteen children my mother one of fourteen, a fascinating history isnt it. I live in nz but I love new south wales and Sydney I feel very at home there. I stand on those rocks and feel very connected, recently I did the Susannah Place tour as well, it was wonderful I have recently learnt on my mother's mother's side Thourougood-Woodbridge that they descended from the name Singleton and there is a town called Singleton my mother did not know this and she said she knew of the town as she is now 79 it was nice to be able to share this with her. once again thanks for the information. cheers Lynne nz

Many years ago at Globe St Sydney they help a small book that contains the death of any convict that died while in his master service, my understanding was the masters had to notify the department. Has anyone had the use of it in later years ? I have forgotten what it was called and only remember the print was very hard to read. Regards Kath

Hi Lesley, Would that be the book Kath is referring to? Convicts Death Index? What period does it cover and how comprehensive is it? I would like to find out about the death of an ancestor, Henrietta GREGORY, in 1819. Cause of her death would be my main interest. Best regards, John Bushell > > Hi Kath > > I cannot have been that small a book. I transcribed the Convict Death > Index > some 9 years ago and it runs to about 200 A4 pages. > > > Regards > Lesley Uebel

Hi Marje The Indent for the Eliza is one of the easier ones to read :) The crimes committed were not noted on the Indents at that stage. The following is my interpretation of what that Indent notes about Thomas Name: Thomas Blake Tried: Stafford Assizes 11th March 1819 Sentence: 7 years Native Place: Walton on Trent Calling: Labourer Age: 25 Height: 5 feet 7 & a quarter inches Complexion: Fair medium Hair: Light brown Eye colour: Hazel TOL: 1093 Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of MarjeDawn@aol.com Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 12:52 AM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: [PJ] Thomas Blake per Eliza 1820 Hello Lesley and Listers, I have been researching Thomas Blake per Eliza arrived in January 1820, aged 25, sentenced to 7 years. I don't have a lot of details since the fiche (# 643 p. 47) of the Indent is difficult to read. The information I have is from your CD Lesley, The Port Jackson Convicts Anthology. I would like to find the crime which brought him to the colony. Can you help please? TIA Marje

Don't forget, nobody fills out their own death certificate. So if the kids/spouse/informant didn't know the person was a convict, it's unlikely to be mentioned at the death. Min. >In relation the BDMs, it seems it was only recorded for burials but >not on death certificates (ie post 1856). Some of the proforma >burial certificates I hold show the words "Quality or Profession (if >bond name of ship)". This seems to indicate that the minister >performing the burial service was required to note the name of the >ship if the deceased was still a convict. That is, it was not >required if the deceased had served their time, ie an ex-convict, or >was "free".

Marje I suggest you have a look at Lesley's web site and contact the two people who are also interested in Thomas as its likely that one or both may know the answer. cheers Grahame On 26/03/2009, at 12:52 AM, MarjeDawn@aol.com wrote: > > Hello Lesley and Listers, > > I have been researching Thomas Blake per Eliza arrived in January > 1820, aged > 25, sentenced to 7 years. > > I don't have a lot of details since the fiche (# 643 p. 47) of the > Indent is > difficult to read. > The information I have is from your CD Lesley, The Port Jackson > Convicts > Anthology. > > I would like to find the crime which brought him to the colony. > Can you help please? > > TIA > Marje > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-PT- > JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Lynne, You may have found this already in the PJ archives - I remember sending it many years ago. It is part of a letter written by Governor Macquarie to Earl Bathurst in May 1814 Destruction of the transport Three Bees by fire ----------------------------------------------------- A most unfortunate accident took place in Sydney Cove immediately in front of, and at a very short distance from Government House on Friday evening last, which I have now to relate to your Lordship. At about 5 o'clock in the evening the fine new ship Three Bees was discovered to be on fire, and so rapid and violent was the burst of flames when the hatches were accidentally raised, that all effort at extinguishing them were rendered totally useless, and must have been attended with the utmost risk to those who should have attempted it. The danger arising from the ordinary effect of fire being increased beyond calculation by the consideration that a very large quantity of gunpowder was deposited immediately adjoining the place from whence the flames first proceeded. No alternative was left to the Ship's Company but an immediate abandonment, which fortunately took place without any accident whatever. At this crisis, little short of the total destruction of the Town of Sydney was expected every moment to take place by the explosion of the Magazine. The alarm was so great that numbers of the inhabitants deserted their houses, and fled into the country to avoid being buried in its ruins. Fourteen guns, some loaded with ball and some with grape shot, exploded sending their contents in various directions, as the ship drifted, through the town, fortunately however, without doing any damage further than the breaking a window in the Naval Officer's House and shattering a writing desk that lay within it. At this time a light breeze blowing off the shore, and the cable being cut, the vessel drifted to the extremity of the Cove where she struck on some projecting rocks called Bennelong 's Point, and here the expected explosion took place. Owing to some circumstance, which cannot be otherwise accounted for than by supposing that the ship had previously taken in water, and wetted the powder, the explosion did not occur till nearly two hours after it was expected, and was not by any means so tremendous as there was reason to suppose it would have been. The alarm for the Town and the shipping in the Cove was now at an end, but the fire did not cease its ravages until the fine ship burnt down to the water's edge, which took place in about six hours from the first discovery. This unfortunate accident is attributed to some carelessness on the part of a Tailor, who had charge of a lighted candle in the morning in that part of the Hold whence the flames proceeded, dropping some of the snuff of it in an unextinguished state at his feet. Loses sustained by the crew of the Three Bees ------------------------------------------------------- The Government Stores and Provision, which had been sent out in her, had been fortunately landed (with the exception of a small quantity of wet provisions) previous to this lamentable occurrence. The unfortunate Commander, Surgeon, Officers and Crew were obliged precipitately to abandon the ship, leaving all their property of every kind to be destroyed in the general conflagration, and they are now without other support than what arises from the contributions of the humane and benevolent. (Source HRA You will, more than likely, find a newspaper report about it as well in the Sydney Gazette regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au CLAIM A CONVICT http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/index.html -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Lynne Kokshoorn Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 1:46 PM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PJ] AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS Digest, Vol 4, Issue 115 In reply to message no 4 on sunday march 22 Coralie Thank you so much for your information on the three bees, Vivid Festival in Sydney in June. I was able to google this in my relation Andrew Callaghan was on that ship and several family documents say that he may have been responsible for this fire though there is no way to prove or disprove this theory. I have been in sydney recently and did the rocks walking tour the guide told the other tourists about the three bees and the fire and my relation It was very special and I had a wonderful feeling for this I tempted to cross the ditch from nz and attend this event I will look into it once again many thanks for sharing the information I googled the newspaper article too. cheers Lynne nz

I would like to thank all who responded to my question about George Mills and if he was a convict. You came up with lots of suggestions and ideas which have been very helpful. I am still working through these and will let you know the outcome when and if I find something concrete. What a font of knowledge you PJ Listers are!! Thank you Lesley for your information as it saved me quite a bit of time and effort with some of the "George Mills". that you were definitely able to discount for me. Maybe he did come into Port Phillip or Morton Bay when they were still part of NSW. Maybe he was not a convict after all but I just have a "gut feeling" about this man. This is a great list as there are so many people who offer suggestions and help when one is not sure of where to look next. Thank you to all and I will let you all know how I get on. Valerie from Mollymook.

Thank you lLesley. Sandra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lesley Uebel" <ckennedy@bigpond.net.au> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 9:29 PM Subject: Re: [PJ] 1828 Census thanks >

In reply to message no 4 on sunday march 22 Coralie Thank you so much for your information on the three bees, Vivid Festival in Sydney in June. I was able to google this in my relation Andrew Callaghan was on that ship and several family documents say that he may have been responsible for this fire though there is no way to prove or disprove this theory. I have been in sydney recently and did the rocks walking tour the guide told the other tourists about the three bees and the fire and my relation It was very special and I had a wonderful feeling for this I tempted to cross the ditch from nz and attend this event I will look into it once again many thanks for sharing the information I googled the newspaper article too. cheers Lynne nz

Hello Lesley and Listers, I have been researching Thomas Blake per Eliza arrived in January 1820, aged 25, sentenced to 7 years. I don't have a lot of details since the fiche (# 643 p. 47) of the Indent is difficult to read. The information I have is from your CD Lesley, The Port Jackson Convicts Anthology. I would like to find the crime which brought him to the colony. Can you help please? TIA Marje

Sandra, no nothing was received from you to the list about that subject nor did I receive it back from Rootsweb as badly addressed. In future, if unsure if a message made it to the list but has not been received back to you is to check the PJ Convicts Archives as sometimes messages can take while to come through. The URL is: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS Many census have been taken over the years and they continue to be taken,...... but only a couple are available to us eg 1828 NSW Census and the 1841 Census (limited information as it lists the names of the head of the household only). Information about both has been on my web site for about 8 years. Regards Lesley Uebel mailto:ckennedy@bigpond.net.au -----Original Message----- From: aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-pt-jackson-convicts-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of sandra fox Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 9:11 PM To: aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PJ] 1828 Census thanks Lesley, I sent an email to this address and I think it is the one that was returned undeliverable. I asked if there was a list of years that census' were taken in NSW? Could you let me know please if this is delivered to the group. Sandra ----

Lesley, I sent an email to this address and I think it is the one that was returned undeliverable. I asked if there was a list of years that census' were taken in NSW? Could you let me know please if this is delivered to the group. Sandra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jenny T" <jennygirl@unwired.com.au> To: <AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:27 AM Subject: [PJ] 1828 Census thanks > Thank you Lesley and Garry for your responses to > my question they were a big help > > I wrote: > I don't seem to find any month of the year when I Google > 1828 census. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Karen Hodges <rowantreek@gmail.com> writes: > Up to volume 123 of BDM were copied onto microfilm and released for sale, > purchased by some Libraries and historical societies at the time. More were > given out to Libraries by the Government, to country areas in ARK kits. Then > someone [Government?] changed their mind about releasing the records and no > more volumes were copied. The first entry is in Volume 115 but the second is > in volume 146 so has to be purchased. > > I am not 100% sure about the double entries but think one is the result of > copying the full church entry and the other a copy sent in by the church, > for BDM of what they required at the time. Thanks Karen. -- Martin

Hi John, I have a copy of a death registration for the year 1870 where Item 11 on the form stated "Where born, and how long in the Australian Colonies, or States, indicating which". So the entry was written in, as to his county of birth in England and the notation "14 years in the Colony of New South Wales". This person arrived as a Bounty Immigrant. I have another death certif. for another free immigrant dated November 1936 with the same info. It seems that if you were born somewhere else you had to provide the information as to where you were born and how long you had been in the colony/state. In another instance where the convict ancestor died in 1885 it is noted how long he had been in the colony - but no mention of his convict ship. Once they were free, they were treated the same as free settlers, I guess. Lyn . ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Humphrey" <humphreyjohn@rogers.com> To: <aus-pt-jackson-convicts@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 11:21 PM Subject: Re: [PJ] Assistance re Death Certificate > > Does anyone know whether settlers who "came free" had the name of their > ship recorded in birth, marriage, death and other documents? (And if so, > why?) Or was that only done for convicts? John >>

Hi Stan, There is an interesting piece on that form in use by 1870 that you quoted: "how long in the Australian Colonies, or States, indicating which". I thought the states came into existence with Federation, but appears some at least existed by 1870. Shows how little I know of Australian history. When did NSW become a state rather than a colony? On my gg grandfather's death certificate he is down as having been in Queensland for 50 years, but in fact he was in NSW for the first 15 or 20 years after he emigrated. Best regards, John Bushell