Hi Karen One could ask by Catherine Finn, who arrived by the Lady Rowena, was transported. She was 80 years of age and sentenced to 7 years transportation. There were plenty of older women transported who received sentences from 7 years to life. Regards Lesley Uebel http://www.claimaconvict.net/index.html CLAIM A CONVICT email: [email protected] On 30/05/2011 9:27 AM, Karen Hodges wrote: > I know that young convict men who were sentenced to death often had > this punished reduced to transportation as it suited the Government to > send them out to Australia to help the labourer force. > > Has anyone come across any information as to whether punish of > transportation was effected by the age of a women? For example could a > woman awaiting trial consider it advantageous to lie about her age and > make herself older [beyond child bearing age] in hopes that she would > be consider not worth the cost of transporting to Australia? > > Karen

I know that young convict men who were sentenced to death often had this punished reduced to transportation as it suited the Government to send them out to Australia to help the labourer force. Has anyone come across any information as to whether punish of transportation was effected by the age of a women? For example could a woman awaiting trial consider it advantageous to lie about her age and make herself older [beyond child bearing age] in hopes that she would be consider not worth the cost of transporting to Australia? Karen

Hi Lesley, Thank you for the info on John Gorman's Ticket of Leave in 1838. I will look around that time period and see what I can come up with prior to his Certificate of Freedom in 1842 and a marriage in 1851 at Parramatta. Bye now Keith I tried sending this via the group and it bounced. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lesley Uebel" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [PJ] John Gorman Convict > Hi Keith > > The 1837 General Return of Convicts has him assigned to Thomas Icely at > Bathurst > > When he obtained a Ticket of Leave in 1838, it stated he was to remain > in the district of Bathurst. > > When he arrived in 1835 he stated that he was a Housepainter and > Glazier. This is an occupation that he may have returned to. > > Regards > > Lesley Uebel > > http://www.claimaconvict.net/index.html > CLAIM A CONVICT > > > email: [email protected] > > On 30/05/2011 3:14 AM, Victor & Keith wrote: >> Is anyone on list researching convict John Gorman born c1810 tried Dublin >> City 1834 and transported to NSW on 27/9/1834 arrived Sydney 22/1/1835. >> He came on the ship "Royal Admiral 3". >> >> I have found a Certificate of Freedom dated 10/2/1842 but I have not been >> able to trace his movements after arrival in NSW. I don't know where he >> was living when granted the certificate. >> >> My ancestor was John Gorman (O'Gorman) born c1810 Ireland married >> Parramatta 19/1/1851and in 1853 was at Rockley, NSW on Campbell's River. >> >> On his death certificate on 26/4/1856 it stated he was 45 years of age >> and been in the colony about 12 years (info not given by relative). >> >> I can find no arrival of a John Gorman/O'Gorman as a free settler and the >> above John appears to be the only one close to being a link. >> >> Any help appreciated. >> >> Keith >> Charlestown NSW >> >> > > ---------------------- > To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to > [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Lesley, Thank you for the information re the ticket of leave for John Gorman at Bathurst in 1838. I will look around the area and see what I can locate on him prior to his 1842 certificate of Freedom and then marriage in 1851 at Parramatta. Bye now Keith

Hi I also are having trouble finding what happened to my convict JOHN LAWRENCE from his arrival on 8/1/1939 on the Barossa and his settlement at Moparrabah (Kempsey District) It was stated in his wife ROSANNA CARTWRIGHT's Obituary that he worked as a Stock Keeper at Lake Innes Port Macquarie but I have been unable to find out from the Port Macquarie's Historical society of any existing record. We know he Married in Port Macquarie in 1850, Ticket of Leave 9/8/1946, Cancelled 6/11/1850, reissured 16/4/1851. So what did he do between1839 and 1851 when he turned up in Kempsey. This is still my mystery. Derek

Is anyone on list researching convict John Gorman born c1810 tried Dublin City 1834 and transported to NSW on 27/9/1834 arrived Sydney 22/1/1835. He came on the ship "Royal Admiral 3". I have found a Certificate of Freedom dated 10/2/1842 but I have not been able to trace his movements after arrival in NSW. I don't know where he was living when granted the certificate. My ancestor was John Gorman (O'Gorman) born c1810 Ireland married Parramatta 19/1/1851and in 1853 was at Rockley, NSW on Campbell's River. On his death certificate on 26/4/1856 it stated he was 45 years of age and been in the colony about 12 years (info not given by relative). I can find no arrival of a John Gorman/O'Gorman as a free settler and the above John appears to be the only one close to being a link. Any help appreciated. Keith Charlestown NSW

Hi Keith The 1837 General Return of Convicts has him assigned to Thomas Icely at Bathurst When he obtained a Ticket of Leave in 1838, it stated he was to remain in the district of Bathurst. When he arrived in 1835 he stated that he was a Housepainter and Glazier. This is an occupation that he may have returned to. Regards Lesley Uebel http://www.claimaconvict.net/index.html CLAIM A CONVICT email: [email protected] On 30/05/2011 3:14 AM, Victor & Keith wrote: > Is anyone on list researching convict John Gorman born c1810 tried Dublin City 1834 and transported to NSW on 27/9/1834 arrived Sydney 22/1/1835. > He came on the ship "Royal Admiral 3". > > I have found a Certificate of Freedom dated 10/2/1842 but I have not been able to trace his movements after arrival in NSW. I don't know where he was living when granted the certificate. > > My ancestor was John Gorman (O'Gorman) born c1810 Ireland married Parramatta 19/1/1851and in 1853 was at Rockley, NSW on Campbell's River. > > On his death certificate on 26/4/1856 it stated he was 45 years of age and been in the colony about 12 years (info not given by relative). > > I can find no arrival of a John Gorman/O'Gorman as a free settler and the above John appears to be the only one close to being a link. > > Any help appreciated. > > Keith > Charlestown NSW > >

Hi Ken The State Records of NSW states that the ARK records are available at Port Macquarie http://tinyurl.com/kubrbf They are available at many libraries around NSW - even my local library has a copy..... and they don't hold much regards Lesley http://www.claimaconvict.net/index.html CLAIM A CONVICT email: [email protected] On 28/05/2011 5:41 PM, Ken Thompson wrote: > Hello Lesley > > The Reel I checked was part of the NSW Archives Set which is in the local library. I think the information you refer to must be the original documents and also fiche which were copied prior to the copying which produced the reels. Both are probably available at the State Library in Sydney, but certainly not here in Port Macquarie. It is interesting to know about, but unfortunately it would be very difficult for me to access these records. I will keep it in mind, but in the meantime I will try to work around my investigation in some other way. > > However I would be interested to know how you would rate the possibility that there is a Java indent list in the original records, even though it is not on the Archives Reel. Would you think it was a very long shot, a rough chance, or reasonably likely ? > > Regards > > Ken > >

Hello Anne Very interesting and helpful. Thanks. As I see it now, Minchan and Hartnett both arrived on the Java 18.11.1833. Both were teachers and the authorities decided to send them to Port Macquarie. For some reason Port Macquarie wasn't quite ready for them, so they were held somewhere in Sydney, probably at Hyde Park Barracks. By coincidence, in early December nine convicts from the Hunter were brought to Sydney to act as witnesses in the trial Hitchcock V Rex (the Castle Forbes Trial). I think the process was that the convicts were sent to, or recorded at Hyde Park Barracks and then transferred to the prison hulk Phoenix. Anyway they were admited to the Phoenix on 6 December. Minchan and Harnett were transferred to the Phoenix the same day. The trial was on the 9th and 10th of December. On the first day the Judge ruled that the expected witnesses could not give evidence. So on the 10th all the witnesses and Minchan were released from the Phoenix. All the witnesses were returned to the Hunter. Minchan seems to have been taken with them. However Hartnett remained on the Phoenix until the 7th of January 1834, when he was transferred to Port Macquarie. He seems to have been assigned to The Port Macquarie Specials - whatever that was. I have some more checking to do on this, but you may already know more than I do, so I would welcome any comment or information. Regards Ken From: Kristy Willoughby <[email protected]> Hi Ken, Michael Minchan per "Java"was assigned to Port Macquarie on arrival. He had a life sentence. He received a Pardon in 1846, but is not on any of the Musters in between. There is however a Michael Tincham per Java 1833 in the 1837 Muster, assigned to N Mobbs at Parramatta. Bye Anne

Hello Lesley The Reel I checked was part of the NSW Archives Set which is in the local library. I think the information you refer to must be the original documents and also fiche which were copied prior to the copying which produced the reels. Both are probably available at the State Library in Sydney, but certainly not here in Port Macquarie. It is interesting to know about, but unfortunately it would be very difficult for me to access these records. I will keep it in mind, but in the meantime I will try to work around my investigation in some other way. However I would be interested to know how you would rate the possibility that there is a Java indent list in the original records, even though it is not on the Archives Reel. Would you think it was a very long shot, a rough chance, or reasonably likely ? Regards Ken

Hi Ken, Michael Minchan per "Java"was assigned to Port Macquarie on arrival. He had a life sentence. He received a Pardon in 1846, but is not on any of the Musters in between. There is however a Michael Tincham per Java 1833 in the 1837 Muster, assigned to N Mobbs at Parramatta. Bye Anne -----Original Message----- From: Ken Thompson Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 5:32 PM To: [email protected] ; Lesley Uebel Subject: [PJ] Minchan Hello Lesley I am interested in both Michael Minchan and John Richard Hartnett, who arrived on the Java in 1833, but only who they were assigned to, or where they lived on arrival or shortly afterwards The Java papers are on Reel 2423 page 299 but there is no indent list. The only list for the Java is an account of money belonging to convicts. Minchan and Hartnett didn't have any ! Neither of these convicts is on the 1841 Census on line and there is nothing relevant on Trove. I wonder whether anyone has any information on the initial asssignment of any other convict on the Java ? Regards Ken ---------------------- To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Ken I suggest that you check the fiche version - both the bound and printed versions as each have slightly different information. Regards Lesley Uebel http://www.claimaconvict.net/index.html CLAIM A CONVICT email: [email protected] On 27/05/2011 5:32 PM, Ken Thompson wrote: > Hello Lesley > > I am interested in both Michael Minchan and John Richard Hartnett, who arrived on the Java in 1833, but only who they were assigned to, or where they lived on arrival or shortly afterwards > > The Java papers are on Reel 2423 page 299 but there is no indent list. The only list for the Java is an account of money belonging to convicts. Minchan and Hartnett didn't have any ! > > Neither of these convicts is on the 1841 Census on line and there is nothing relevant on Trove. > > I wonder whether anyone has any information on the initial asssignment of any other convict on the Java ? > > Regards > > Ken >

Hello Lesley I am interested in both Michael Minchan and John Richard Hartnett, who arrived on the Java in 1833, but only who they were assigned to, or where they lived on arrival or shortly afterwards The Java papers are on Reel 2423 page 299 but there is no indent list. The only list for the Java is an account of money belonging to convicts. Minchan and Hartnett didn't have any ! Neither of these convicts is on the 1841 Census on line and there is nothing relevant on Trove. I wonder whether anyone has any information on the initial asssignment of any other convict on the Java ? Regards Ken

Hello Grahame Just for passing interest. Michael Minchan was in the Hunter at Drayton in 1852. It would have been another Michael Minchan in Adelaide 14.7.1847, 3.10.1849 and 13.9.1866. Cheers Ken

Hi Ken The person or governtment body he was first assigned should be included on the Indent available at many libraries. Whoever he was assigned when he arrived does not mean that he stayed with them - some changed quite frequently. The records state he received a TOL in 1842 for the Port Macquarie area. Regards LESLEY Uebel not Leslie http://www.claimaconvict.net/index.html CLAIM A CONVICT email: [email protected] On 26/05/2011 6:17 PM, Ken Thompson wrote: > Hello Leslie > > No, but I would very much like to see it. I am particularly interested to know who he was assigned to. > > Can I check this on the internet somehow ? > > Regards > > Ken >

Thanks Grahame. I searched Trove without success but will try again using the name variant that Dianne found. Cheers Ken Hi Ken I suggest you try a search on TROVE. http://trove.nla.gov.au/ cheers Grahame

Hello Leslie No, but I would very much like to see it. I am particularly interested to know who he was assigned to. Can I check this on the internet somehow ? Regards Ken Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 19:04:17 +1000 From: Lesley Uebel <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PJ] Convict Michael Minchan To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi Ken Yes, he did arrive on that transport. Have you checked the muster taken on board when he arrived? Regards Lesley Uebel

Hi Ken I suggest you try a search on TROVE. http://trove.nla.gov.au/ cheers Grahame On 25/05/2011, at 6:12 PM, Ken Thompson wrote: > Does anyone have any information on Michael Minchan, who is reported as arriving on the Java ? I suppose this was on 18.11.1833 because there was no previous arrival as far as I can discover. I think he must have been taken directly to the Hunter, but he isn't listed in Free Settler or Felon. > > Ken Thompson > > ---------------------- > To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to > [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Ken Yes, he did arrive on that transport. Have you checked the muster taken on board when he arrived? Regards Lesley Uebel http://www.claimaconvict.net/index.html CLAIM A CONVICT email: [email protected] On 25/05/2011 6:12 PM, Ken Thompson wrote: > Does anyone have any information on Michael Minchan, who is reported as arriving on the Java ? I suppose this was on 18.11.1833 because there was no previous arrival as far as I can discover. I think he must have been taken directly to the Hunter, but he isn't listed in Free Settler or Felon. > > Ken Thompson >

Does anyone have any information on Michael Minchan, who is reported as arriving on the Java ? I suppose this was on 18.11.1833 because there was no previous arrival as far as I can discover. I think he must have been taken directly to the Hunter, but he isn't listed in Free Settler or Felon. Ken Thompson