Hi Dianne They could be baptised under their mother's surname. And then there are the spelling variations. You could search the NSW BDM online index for baptisms in 1807 just for Michael and then William and compare the two results to see if there are two entries with two reference numbers one apart. How do you know he left his estate to various family members? cheers Grahame On 18/06/2011, at 10:33 AM, dianna charles wrote: > Hi > I'm trying to find out who Michael BYRNE married or had his son's to at > least. From my information Michael arrived on the "Minerva" in 1800 from > Ireland. I have some details on him but still don't know who his childrens > mother was. > > Michael had twin boys William and Michael born in West Bargo NSW in > 1807. Michael snr died in 1827 and left something to his (unamed wife) and > something to his son William and other family members in the UK. > > Is there any way to find out who Michael BYRNE married please. Any > help much appreciated Kind regards Dianna > > > ---------------------- > To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to > [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Lesley I get the picture thanks. I wonder if its to do with Francis William Forbes, first chief justice in NSW, arr 1824. cheers Grahame On 18/06/2011, at 10:12 AM, Lesley Uebel wrote: > Grahame, > > Catherine was married in March 1829 (with permission). The muster taken > on board on her arrival in January 1828 states that she was assigned to > either Mr Forbes or W. Forbes. > > Catherine was free in 1835 > > > There were other convicts with the name of William Forbes who arrived in > 1828, 1830, 1834 and 1839, none of whom would be able to have convicts > assigned to them in 1828. Apart from the convict who arrived on the > first fleet, I cannot find another person (free or convict) in the > colony before 1828, who was old enough to be assiged a convict. > > The William Forbes who produced a child in 1835 was a convict who > arrived in 1828 and married, with permission, in 1832. He arrived in 1828. > > Regards > > Lesley Uebel >

Thank you for your reply Leslie, Catherine Hanlan/Hanley/ Hanlon depending on which record one looks at married Thomas Nicholls per Earl St Vincent 1820. In June 1828 she was given up by her master & returned to the 1st class women's factory, I assume this would have been William Forbes, I have found her in the November 1828 census listed as Catherine Stanley per Elizabeth 1827, was there an 1827 arrival? She is the right age and native place. She was listed as working for E S Hall of the Monitor Newspaper. With her name listed as Hanley on her death certificate & her marriage certificate state's it is Catherine Hanlen or Handley your guess is as good as mine as to her real name! The book I refer to is Elizabeth 1828 page 201 Cheers Karen nee Nicholls

Hi I'm trying to find out who Michael BYRNE married or had his son's to at least. From my information Michael arrived on the "Minerva" in 1800 from Ireland. I have some details on him but still don't know who his childrens mother was. Michael had twin boys William and Michael born in West Bargo NSW in 1807. Michael snr died in 1827 and left something to his (unamed wife) and something to his son William and other family members in the UK. Is there any way to find out who Michael BYRNE married please. Any help much appreciated Kind regards Dianna

Grahame, Catherine was married in March 1829 (with permission). The muster taken on board on her arrival in January 1828 states that she was assigned to either Mr Forbes or W. Forbes. Catherine was free in 1835 There were other convicts with the name of William Forbes who arrived in 1828, 1830, 1834 and 1839, none of whom would be able to have convicts assigned to them in 1828. Apart from the convict who arrived on the first fleet, I cannot find another person (free or convict) in the colony before 1828, who was old enough to be assiged a convict. The William Forbes who produced a child in 1835 was a convict who arrived in 1828 and married, with permission, in 1832. He arrived in 1828. Regards Lesley Uebel http://www.claimaconvict.net/index.html CLAIM A CONVICT email: [email protected] On 17/06/2011 7:27 PM, Grahame Thom wrote: > Hi Karen > > It depends on when she was disposed. If you search the online NSW BDM indexes then pre 1850 it looks like there may have been three William Forbes fathering children, with the earliest in 1835. If you can look up these on the Archives reels you may be able to get some useful information. > > Also if you do a search of the old newspapers pre 1850 for the Sydney Gazette and Sydney Herald you will find lots of entries for William Forbes. > > cheers > > Grahame > >SNIPPED................. >

Hi Karen It depends on when she was disposed. If you search the online NSW BDM indexes then pre 1850 it looks like there may have been three William Forbes fathering children, with the earliest in 1835. If you can look up these on the Archives reels you may be able to get some useful information. Also if you do a search of the old newspapers pre 1850 for the Sydney Gazette and Sydney Herald you will find lots of entries for William Forbes. cheers Grahame On 17/06/2011, at 11:08 AM, Lesley Uebel wrote: > Hi Karen > > "How disposed" does mean to whom assigned. > > I don't know which book you are referring to but the muster taken on > board when that transport arrived states, int he "remarks" column either > Mr Forbes or W Forbes. > > I cannot find a William Forbes in the colony at that time although he > may not be recorded in the various records that I have. There was a > William Forbes who arrived on the Alexander in 1788 but I cannot find > him listed in the 1828 NSW Census nor in most of the early Musters, nor > in the Col. Sec. Index. . Actually I cannot find Catherine listed > either under any spelling that her name appears in various records. > > It is interesting that many of the women who are noted as being > assigned, by the time the 1828 NSW Census was taken were living at the > Female Factory at Parramatta or with with another person > > > Regards > > Lesley > http://www.claimaconvict.net/index.html > CLAIM A CONVICT > > > > On 16/06/2011 6:17 PM, Karen Fountaine wrote: >> Hi Leslie& Lister's >> >> >> >> I have records of my GGGG grandmother Catherine Hanlan per Elizabeth 1828 >> >> In a book I have recently read it states "how disposed of" William Forbes >> >> Can anyone please tell me what that means? Was she assigned to him? If so >> where would I go to find more information on this info? >> >> >> >> Regards >> >> Karen >> > > ---------------------- > To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to > [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Suzanne Regards >From Max Cluff [ Mary Connor / George Grey descendant.] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Voytas Sent: Sunday, 12 June 2011 9:01 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [PJ] John McCrumb/Sally Donnelly Hello Geoff, John McCrumb married one of my ladies, Sally Donnelly, from the ship Elizabeth, which arrived on the 12th January 1828. He arrived per Martha in 1818 and applied to marry Sally in May 1828 aged 44 years, free by servitude. Sally's was one of the earliest marriages of the women from the Elizabeth. I have only found the child James McCrumb who was 36 hours old when he died, that may have been their child. I have details of children baptised to a couple Sally/Sarah Donnelly and James Montgomery.(Patrick, Anne and Sarah) Again have not found a death for John McCrumb. As with the early church registers there are many events that may have not been recorded, the registers are missing, a religious difference, registered under another name or incorrectly transcribed. I have researched all the women of the Elizabeth, published the results so far and still researching my ladies Suzanne Voytas On 10/06/2011 6:29 PM, Geoff Collins wrote: > I am trying to determine the fate of the above convict who, I believe, maybe my great great grandfather. Have determined that he was in the employ of William Mason in 1823 , married another convict Sally Donnelly at Cof E Richmond on 26/5/1828 by Rev Elijah Smith. From this point on I have no further information but , again, believe that they had a child, Mary Ann McCrumb, who married a Charles Chuck in 1847 and after this married my great grandfather Samuel Collins after the death of Charles in 1854 at Camperdown. No records of their union but children have variation of surname from McCrum, McCrumb, Chuck, Montgomery . There is a record of a James McCrumb who died as a baby. Hope someone has some information on this > > > Geoff Collins > ---------------------- To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 6201 (20110612) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com

Hi Karen "How disposed" does mean to whom assigned. I don't know which book you are referring to but the muster taken on board when that transport arrived states, int he "remarks" column either Mr Forbes or W Forbes. I cannot find a William Forbes in the colony at that time although he may not be recorded in the various records that I have. There was a William Forbes who arrived on the Alexander in 1788 but I cannot find him listed in the 1828 NSW Census nor in most of the early Musters, nor in the Col. Sec. Index. . Actually I cannot find Catherine listed either under any spelling that her name appears in various records. It is interesting that many of the women who are noted as being assigned, by the time the 1828 NSW Census was taken were living at the Female Factory at Parramatta or with with another person Regards Lesley http://www.claimaconvict.net/index.html CLAIM A CONVICT On 16/06/2011 6:17 PM, Karen Fountaine wrote: > Hi Leslie& Lister's > > > > I have records of my GGGG grandmother Catherine Hanlan per Elizabeth 1828 > > In a book I have recently read it states "how disposed of" William Forbes > > Can anyone please tell me what that means? Was she assigned to him? If so > where would I go to find more information on this info? > > > > Regards > > Karen >

Hi Leslie & Lister's I have records of my GGGG grandmother Catherine Hanlan per Elizabeth 1828 In a book I have recently read it states "how disposed of" William Forbes Can anyone please tell me what that means? Was she assigned to him? If so where would I go to find more information on this info? Regards Karen

Hi everyone I am trying to track down an elusive ancestor, whose name was George Hughes, who had a son George Hughes born in the Parramatta-Mittagong area sometime between 1829-1835 [possibly 1834]. I do not know whether or not he was a convict. His son was illiterate, so I am assuming his father may have been as well. His son's occupation was a sawyer. His son's birth/baptism does not appear to have been recorded, or there does not appear to be a surviving record. His mother's name is not known. The only document that lists the father's name is his son George Hughes' death certificate, where his wife as informant gave his father's name as being George Hughes in 1876. So, I am working my way through all the George Hughes' I can find who were living in the Colony of NSW around that time. There appears to have been about 14 convicts named George Hughes living in the colony around the right time. I was wondering if anyone might have come across any information on convict George Hughes, arrived 7/11/1818 on the “Morley” (2), who was born about 1797, convicted Middlesex England on 3 Dec 1817, who obtained a TL 1823 Airds [near Campbelltown], and Certificate of Freedom 9 Dec 1824 No. 014/2963. I was not able to locate an entry for him in the 1828 NSW Census, and the last record I could find for him was the 1825 general muster. Details I have for this convict: Australian Convict Transportation Registers – Other Fleets & Ships, 1791-1868 George Hughes, Vessel: Morley, Convicted Date: 3 Dec 1817, Voyage Date: Jul 1818, Place of Conviction: Middlesex, England Old Bailey Proceedings, 3rd December 1817. Reference Number: t18171203-27 26. GEORGE HUGHES was indicted for stealing, on the 25th of November , eight yards of stuff, value 6s. , the goods of James Fitch . ... GUILTY . Aged 20. Transported for Seven Years. Arrivals Nov 1818, Ship came in: Mosley / Morley (2), Master of ship’s name: Brown, Tried where: OBailey, When: Dec 1817 [Stafford], Period for which transported 7 years, Still in the colony. HO 10/1/1 NSW Aust. Settler & Convicts Lists, 1819. HO 10/15 NSW Aust. Settler & Convicts Lists 1821, [same info as above], How disposed of: Windsor. The Sydney Gazette & NSW Advertiser, Thurs 20 Feb 1823, p. 2. “Public notices... Tickets of leave... Morley (2) George Hughes, ditto [Airds]” NSW State Records website, HUGHES George Morley1818 014/2963 9 Dec 1824Certificate of Freedom [4/4423; Reel 601]TL 185/410 Certificate of Freedom 9 Dec 1824 No. 014/2963 TL 185/410. HO 10/19 NSW & Tas Aust Convict Musters 1825, Hughes, George, FS, Morley, 1818, 7, Labourer, Sydney. Any additional information anyone might be able to provide about this convict George Hughes would be very much appreciated. Kind regards Helen

Hi again Maureen. There was one typo in my reply. Palling should have been paling as in "Scar paling right hand". I would think that the meaning is that the scar was fading. Cheers Jeff. > > >> Hi Maureen, >> >> This should be correct. >> >> Scar centre of upper lip, Whiskers Grey, Eyes Hollow, lower part of right >> arm has been broken, Scar palling right hand, Small mole back of left >> hand, Scar back of left hand, Holds a t o Leave No 38/535 [Ticket of >> Leave, number 38/535] dated 8 April 1838, now surrendered. >> >> Cheers Jeff >> On 15/06/2011, at 7:43 PM, Maureen Player wrote:

Thank you Jordan for your response. Kind regards Helen On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Jordan <[email protected]> wrote: > >From the Macquarie: > > memorial >    2. a written statement of facts presented to a sovereign, a > legislative body, etc., as the basis of, or expressed in the form of, > a petition or remonstrance. > > > >From the OED: > > 3 b. A note, a memorandum. Now rare. > > and > 5 (Technical uses) >  b. A statement of facts forming the basis of or expressed in the > form of a petition or remonstrance to a person in authority, a > government, etc. > > Regards > > ---------------------- > To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to > [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Jeff Thank you!!!! Despite new reading glasses I could not figure it out. My Mum died a few years ago and I miss her for many many reasons; one being that she could read an old document with one eye shut! I'm so grateful for your help! Cheers, Maureen ----- Original Message ----- From: "jefarn123" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 9:17 PM Subject: Re: [PJ] Difficulty reading Cert. of Freedom > Hi Maureen, > > This should be correct. > > Scar centre of upper lip, Whiskers Grey, Eyes Hollow, lower part of right > arm has been broken, Scar palling right hand, Small mole back of left > hand, Scar back of left hand, Holds a t o Leave No 38/535 [Ticket of > Leave, number 38/535] dated 8 April 1838, now surrendered. > > Cheers Jeff > On 15/06/2011, at 7:43 PM, Maureen Player wrote: > >> Dear Lesley and list, >> >> I have been trying unsuccessfully to read information from a Certificate >> of Freedom: 41/37 : dated 9 JAN 1841 John Dunlop. >> >> Prisoner No. 34/21 >> Ship Royal Sovereign etc >> > > > > ---------------------- > To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to > [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Maureen, This should be correct. Scar centre of upper lip, Whiskers Grey, Eyes Hollow, lower part of right arm has been broken, Scar palling right hand, Small mole back of left hand, Scar back of left hand, Holds a t o Leave No 38/535 [Ticket of Leave, number 38/535] dated 8 April 1838, now surrendered. Cheers Jeff On 15/06/2011, at 7:43 PM, Maureen Player wrote: > Dear Lesley and list, > > I have been trying unsuccessfully to read information from a Certificate of Freedom: 41/37 : dated 9 JAN 1841 John Dunlop. > > Prisoner No. 34/21 > Ship Royal Sovereign etc >

Dear Lesley and list, I have been trying unsuccessfully to read information from a Certificate of Freedom: 41/37 : dated 9 JAN 1841 John Dunlop. Prisoner No. 34/21 Ship Royal Sovereign etc I cannot understand the last bit of the general remarks after 'scar back of left hand'.... except for the date. If anyone has access to this and can assist I would be most grateful. Kind regards, Maureen

>From the Macquarie: memorial 2. a written statement of facts presented to a sovereign, a legislative body, etc., as the basis of, or expressed in the form of, a petition or remonstrance. >From the OED: 3 b. A note, a memorandum. Now rare. and 5 (Technical uses) b. A statement of facts forming the basis of or expressed in the form of a petition or remonstrance to a person in authority, a government, etc. Regards

Hi Grahame Thanks very much for this informative response. Kind regards Helen On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Grahame Thom <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Helen > > Another word for memorial could be a claim.  A memorial was similar to a letter from an individual to the administration seeking a favour.  For example many memorials are to do with land that in some way may have had doubtful title.  Or it could be by someone seeking a grant of land or a government appointment.  A memorial can be quite informative because the person lodging the memorial needs to set out the reasons and or history to why they are seeking something.  I strongly recommend that you see what a memorial contains for any connected with your ancestors. > > If you go into the State Records of NSW website and use their search facility by searching for memorials.  The results will give you some idea. > > cheers > > Grahame > > On 15/06/2011, at 8:19 AM, Helen Thompson wrote: > >> Hi everyone >> Can I just ask what "Memorial" means in the Colonial Secretary's Index? >> Kind regards >> Helen > > > > ---------------------- > To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to > [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Helen Another word for memorial could be a claim. A memorial was similar to a letter from an individual to the administration seeking a favour. For example many memorials are to do with land that in some way may have had doubtful title. Or it could be by someone seeking a grant of land or a government appointment. A memorial can be quite informative because the person lodging the memorial needs to set out the reasons and or history to why they are seeking something. I strongly recommend that you see what a memorial contains for any connected with your ancestors. If you go into the State Records of NSW website and use their search facility by searching for memorials. The results will give you some idea. cheers Grahame On 15/06/2011, at 8:19 AM, Helen Thompson wrote: > Hi everyone > Can I just ask what "Memorial" means in the Colonial Secretary's Index? > Kind regards > Helen

Hi everyone Can I just ask what "Memorial" means in the Colonial Secretary's Index? Kind regards Helen On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 6:46 PM, Geoff Collins <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Lina > > >From the Colonial Secretary Index the following is recorded: >      COMER, James. Per "Indian", 1810 > >      1818 Sep 17,24 >     Re permission to marry at Castlereagh (Reel 6006; 4/3499 p.74) > >      1820 May 24 >     Of Evan. Memorial of his wife Ann (Fiche 3016; 4/1823 No.143) > >      1821 Aug 5 >     Memorial (Fiche 3035; 4/1826 No.26) > >      1821 Sep 22 >     On list of persons to receive grants of land in 1821 (Fiche 3266; > 9/2652 pp.66, 71) > >      1824 Sep; >      1825 Jun 21 >     Memorial (Fiche 3083; 4/1836B No.211 pp.937-9). Reply, 30 Jun (Reel > 6014; 4/3514 p.559) > >      1825 Jan 4 >     Memorial (Fiche 3125; 4/1841A No.154 p.9). Reply [as Conner], 14 Apr > (Reel 6014; 4/3514 p.76) > > > Unfortunately there is no mention of who he was assigned to- hope it helps > anyway > > > Geoff Collins > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 6:01 PM > Subject: [PJ] who were they assigned to? > > >> Hi Lesley >> >> I am back on the list again. Hope this finds you well and enjoying life. I >> presume you are still battling on helping everyone with their convict >> ancestors. Its marvellous what you've done over the years - I spose we >> should thank your family too!! >> >> Have you compiled a CD yet detailing who the convicts were assigned to? >> that might make you >> groan but you have produced some magic in the past >> >> I'm trying to fluff out the story of James Comer / COOMER who came on the >> INDIAN 1810 >> aged 16 convicted at Wiltshire Assizes 12 July 1808. I was told  (from a >> forgotten source) that he was assigned to someone at Parramatta when he >> arrived. I cant get to Sydney unfortunately being up here in the sticks at >> Molong and a carer as well - is there anything >> online please? >> >> kind regards >> Lina Moffitt >> >> >> >> http://www.quintopublishing.com >> http://www.indigohealthla.com >> >> >> ---------------------- >> To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to >> [email protected] >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ---------------------- > To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to > [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Lina Good to hear from you again. Have I compiled details of assignments of all convicts? No :) Apart from the fact that a lot of those records no longer exist, many convicts may have stayed with the person to whom they were assigned for only a a few days, a week or month or months. I think the subject of assignments has been one of greatest interest on this list for some reason. In the 1814 General Muster of Convicts, he was with George Stanbury at Parramatta. George Stanbury was a convict per the transport Atlantic in 1791. James was free by Conditional Pardon in 1820 and I can find no evidence that he received a TOL (which is not surpising, given the time) His Conditional Pardon states that his native place was Bath, Somerset - that that far from where he was convicted. Regards Lesley Uebel http://www.claimaconvict.net/index.html CLAIM A CONVICT email: [email protected] On 14/06/2011 6:01 PM, [email protected] wrote: > Hi Lesley > > I am back on the list again. Hope this finds you well and enjoying life. I presume you are still battling on helping everyone with their convict ancestors. Its marvellous what you've done over the years - I spose we should thank your family too!! > > Have you compiled a CD yet detailing who the convicts were assigned to? that might make you > groan but you have produced some magic in the past > > I'm trying to fluff out the story of James Comer / COOMER who came on the INDIAN 1810 > aged 16 convicted at Wiltshire Assizes 12 July 1808. I was told (from a forgotten source) that he was assigned to someone at Parramatta when he arrived. I cant get to Sydney unfortunately being up here in the sticks at Molong and a carer as well - is there anything > online please? > > kind regards > Lina Moffitt > >