There are no records for the Wollombi Bridge party in 1835, the best information you can easily access about the work done by and food, conditions etc of Bridge parties is in Convict Road Gangs 1826 to 1836 by Ian Webb a 54 page monograph published 2003 available by interlibrary Loan or for sale the Convict Trail Project What happened to convicts past 1839. It was assignment to private individuals that was stopped, convict under sentence continued to work for the government and be assigned to various work parties, sometime in the 1840s a large number got ticket of leaves, CP's etc. I do not know of any publication about the winding down of the system, it is not my particular area of interest. Someone else may know the end of the system in more detail. Regards Elizabeth Roberts _____ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Monday, 20 June 2011 5:02 PM To: [email protected] Subject: AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS Digest, Vol 6, Issue 117

Hi! My convict, William Jarvis, arrive in Port Jackson in November 1838. It is my understanding that the cessation of male convict assignment regulation was passed (in England?) in August 1838 and was to take effect 1 January 1839 for convicts in towns and domestic servants everywhere from August 1839. My question is would they have assigned William in December1838 - he probably landed in Sydney on the 29th or 30th November (newspaper reports) - when it was to be ceased a month later? Or did the convicts once they had been assigned just allowed to phase out over time? Any comments, ideas appreciated. Regards, John and Lyn Kurwongbah Queensland

HI Lesley Many thanks for your reply and help, and thanks for all this information. Well to start with I've only found out from other researchers that William was born in Bargo in 1807, I'm afraid I can't verify anything though as I haven't been able to find a birth entry for William (or his twin Michael). I may have to start at the beginning I'm afraid and try and find a baptism for William born ?? 1807ish, hopefully there are some old Catholic baptisms at the State Library on microfilm. That's all I have to go on though what other people have put out there, I just can't understand if someone had a birth date for William that they don't know who the mother is, makes me think that they haven't actualley seen a birth/christening record. As the family are Catholic and there was no priest here at that time, I may not be able to find Williams actual birth. I've contacted Campbelltown family historical society just in case though know something and I've contacted Picton as that's out near Bargo. Other than that I'm not sure what to do next. Many thanks kind regards Dianna

If anyone has tried to send messages only to have them returned as undeliverable - please just try and try again. It is not a PJ List problem but a worldwide one. Rootsweb use Sorbs "Spam and Open Relay Blocking System" - a spam filtering tool - only problem is that it is causing problems to many who try and post or reply to a message on Rootsweb lists. The message you will receive is as follows (and I have received 16 of them over 3 days) "This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason: Each of the following recipients was rejected by a remote mail server. The reasons given by the server are included to help you determine why each recipient was rejected. Recipient: <[email protected]> Reason: 5.7.1 <[email protected]>... Rejected: 61.9.189.149 listed at dnsbl.sorbs.net" Regards Lesley Uebel email: [email protected]

Hi again Jan I think that whatever you read from is wrong. James Blanch was convicted on 16 February 1814 and sentenced to 7 years, 14 + 7 + 21 - therefore I think it was actually his Certificate of Freedom he received in February 1821 and not his Ticket of Leave. Going by the number of his TOL issued during Governor Macquaries time, I think that number was probably issued some time in 1817. Regards Lesley Uebel http://www.claimaconvict.net/index.html CLAIM A CONVICT email: [email protected] On 19/06/2011 4:55 PM, Jan and Geoff Addison wrote: > Hi Lesley and listers, > > On the subject of Indents I'm wondering how much information I'm likely to find about James Blanch who arrived on the Fanny in 1816. > > Also in the short time I've been researching him I've been unable to find any records such as Ticket of Leave or Certificate of Freedom although in an interesting article written about him it is claimed he gained his Ticket of Leave in February 1821. Any suggestions as to where I could verify this would be much appreciated. > > Many thanks, > > Jan,

Hi Jan What you will find on that is: Name James Blanch Tried: Middlesex Gaol Delivery Date: 16 February 1814 Sentence: 7 years Native place: London Occupation: Mathematical Instrument Maker Age on arrival : 31 years Height: 5 feet, eight and a quarter inches Complexion: Sallow Hair: Brown Eyes: Hazel TOL No. 1236 (this was the old method of numbering TOLs) Also states Dead. There is no date against this, but I guess he is the one who died in 1841? He will not be listed in the State Records Certificates of Freedom as he would have been free by 1821 and there records commence in 1823. I suggest that you try the newspapers. Regards Lesley Uebel http://www.claimaconvict.net/index.html CLAIM A CONVICT email: [email protected] On 19/06/2011 4:55 PM, Jan and Geoff Addison wrote: > Hi Lesley and listers, > > On the subject of Indents I'm wondering how much information I'm likely to find about James Blanch who arrived on the Fanny in 1816. > > Also in the short time I've been researching him I've been unable to find any records such as Ticket of Leave or Certificate of Freedom although in an interesting article written about him it is claimed he gained his Ticket of Leave in February 1821. Any suggestions as to where I could verify this would be much appreciated. > > Many thanks, > > Jan, > Perth W.A. >

Hi Lesley, Thank you so much for your help. There is much more information on the Indent than I expected. This is a link to the article I referred to http://members.optusnet.com.au/jph8524/JHjames_blanch.htm What you say regarding 1821 being the year he gained his Certificate of Freedom makes sense now you point it out. When he was convicted in the Old Bailey in 1814 his occupation was listed as being a customs officer but I imagine he had done an instrument makers type apprenticeship when he was younger. I've looked through the papers on Trove but had no luck finding anything regarding the TOL although there are reports of his death in 1841. Thanks again for your help, Jan.

Hi Rob Try putting in Wollombi Bridge party in the oldnewspapers search, click below. You should get nine hits. Also try Alleyn River and you get more. Maybe you have already tried this. cheers Grahame http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/search?adv=y On 19/06/2011, at 2:49 PM, Rob Coughlan wrote: > How could I locate the on board muster for the Florentia (1) 1828 for a > convict Michael Coughlan. Also Iindent states assigned to William Bucknell > on the Alleyn River. I have details of this property and no record of > Michael being there so I am assuming he arrived. Next mention of him is a > court case in Sydney 1835 where it mentions him as an absconder from > Wollombi Bridge Party. Found not guilty in the court case but held in > custody as an absconder. Sent to Newcastle Gaol then Maitland Gaol for > disposal. As I live in WA it is a lttle difficult to get to NSW State > Archives to view and copy these documents. No further mention of him until > his ticket of leave in 1837. Is it possible to find out details of the > period he was with Bucknell or are those records lost. Great northern Road > Project can not help me with Wollombi Bridge Party and I am having trouble > finding anything out about it. Can anybody assist with suggestions to chase > up these leads? Rob Coughlan

Fantastic Nadine, had not thought of that derivative. There are so many anglicised versions of the Gaelic then on top of that you get typesetting errors in 19th century printers. Once again cheers Rob Coughlan -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of nadine Sent: Sunday, 19 June 2011 3:31 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PJ] musters Hello Rob I have a Coughlan married into my Crabtree family in Ireland - her name was also spelled Cawlin. Just in case this may be an avenue of approach for you. Best wishes Nadine Ireland ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Coughlan" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 5:49 AM Subject: [PJ] musters > How could I locate the on board muster for the Florentia (1) 1828 for > a convict Michael Coughlan. Also Iindent states assigned to William > Bucknell on the Alleyn River. I have details of this property and no > record of Michael being there so I am assuming he arrived. Next > mention of him is a court case in Sydney 1835 where it mentions him as > an absconder from Wollombi Bridge Party. Found not guilty in the > court case but held in custody as an absconder. Sent to Newcastle > Gaol then Maitland Gaol for disposal. As I live in WA it is a lttle > difficult to get to NSW State Archives to view and copy these > documents. No further mention of him until his ticket of leave in > 1837. Is it possible to find out details of the period he was with > Bucknell or are those records lost. Great northern Road Project can > not help me with Wollombi Bridge Party and I am having trouble finding > anything out about it. Can anybody assist with suggestions to chase > up these leads? Rob Coughlan > > > ---------------------- > To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to > [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ---------------------- To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Valerie Both are available via the ARK series of fiche and film. The Bound Indents are those that were handwritten at the time of arrival and the Annotated Printed Indents (typed) are those made up for distrbution to people such as magistrates in various parts of the colony. As part of the ARK series - the Bound (handwritten) Indents are available for those convicts arriving from 1788 up until mid 1835. The Annotated Printed Indents (typed) are available for those convicts arriving from 1831 to nearly the end of transportaton. There is an overlap - both being available from about 1831 - 1835 If your convict arrived during that time it is worth checking both as information may have been mistranscribed on the printed version. Regards Lesley Uebel http://www.claimaconvict.net/index.html CLAIM A CONVICT email: [email protected] On 19/06/2011 4:01 PM, valerie.williams wrote: > Hi Lesley, > > I have been reading the emails and I noticed that the other day in reply to a query, you asked if that person had checked the bound or the printed indents. > I didn't know there were two kinds of indents. Could you please explain the difference for me please and tell me where I might find them. Thank you for all the help you give to all of us who still have a lot to learn!! > > Kind Regards > Valerie Williams at Mollymook >

Hi Lesley, I have been reading the emails and I noticed that the other day in reply to a query, you asked if that person had checked the bound or the printed indents. I didn't know there were two kinds of indents. Could you please explain the difference for me please and tell me where I might find them. Thank you for all the help you give to all of us who still have a lot to learn!! Kind Regards Valerie Williams at Mollymook

Thank you Grahame, I have tried but to no avail. It gives a tantalising glimpse into that Bridge Party of which I would like to find more detail. Thanks again, Rob -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Grahame Thom Sent: Sunday, 19 June 2011 2:47 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PJ] musters Hi Rob Try putting in Wollombi Bridge party in the oldnewspapers search, click below. You should get nine hits. Also try Alleyn River and you get more. Maybe you have already tried this. cheers Grahame http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/search?adv=y On 19/06/2011, at 2:49 PM, Rob Coughlan wrote: > How could I locate the on board muster for the Florentia (1) 1828 for > a convict Michael Coughlan. Also Iindent states assigned to William > Bucknell on the Alleyn River. I have details of this property and no > record of Michael being there so I am assuming he arrived. Next > mention of him is a court case in Sydney 1835 where it mentions him as > an absconder from Wollombi Bridge Party. Found not guilty in the > court case but held in custody as an absconder. Sent to Newcastle > Gaol then Maitland Gaol for disposal. As I live in WA it is a lttle > difficult to get to NSW State Archives to view and copy these > documents. No further mention of him until his ticket of leave in > 1837. Is it possible to find out details of the period he was with > Bucknell or are those records lost. Great northern Road Project can > not help me with Wollombi Bridge Party and I am having trouble finding > anything out about it. Can anybody assist with suggestions to chase > up these leads? Rob Coughlan ---------------------- To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Rob When we refer to the Indent we mean often the muster taken on board on arrival. These are the microfiche available in many libraries. If you noted to whom Michael was assigned then you looked at the muster taken on board when he arrived. The 1828 NSW Census (taken end 1828) Michael was still employed by W. W. Bucknell at Elms Hall, Patersons Plains - he is listed as Caughlan. After a quick check of the 1837 General Return of Convicts, I cannot find Michael under either of those spellings - and by rights he should be listed as he did not receive his CP until 1840 Regards Lesley Uebel http://www.claimaconvict.net/index.html CLAIM A CONVICT email: [email protected] On 19/06/2011 2:49 PM, Rob Coughlan wrote: > How could I locate the on board muster for the Florentia (1) 1828 for a > convict Michael Coughlan. Also Iindent states assigned to William Bucknell > on the Alleyn River. I have details of this property and no record of > Michael being there so I am assuming he arrived. Next mention of him is a > court case in Sydney 1835 where it mentions him as an absconder from > Wollombi Bridge Party. Found not guilty in the court case but held in > custody as an absconder. Sent to Newcastle Gaol then Maitland Gaol for > disposal. As I live in WA it is a lttle difficult to get to NSW State > Archives to view and copy these documents. No further mention of him until > his ticket of leave in 1837. Is it possible to find out details of the > period he was with Bucknell or are those records lost. Great northern Road > Project can not help me with Wollombi Bridge Party and I am having trouble > finding anything out about it. Can anybody assist with suggestions to chase > up these leads? Rob Coughlan > >

Hi Lesley and listers, On the subject of Indents I'm wondering how much information I'm likely to find about James Blanch who arrived on the Fanny in 1816. Also in the short time I've been researching him I've been unable to find any records such as Ticket of Leave or Certificate of Freedom although in an interesting article written about him it is claimed he gained his Ticket of Leave in February 1821. Any suggestions as to where I could verify this would be much appreciated. Many thanks, Jan, Perth W.A.

Hi Dianna, In The Sydney Gazette through end July and August, the house and property of the late Michael Byrne of Pitt Street were up for sale. It states in the ad that they were lately occupied by Mrs Reynolds. It also states they they were let to a respectable tenant for 7 years. By end 1828, there was no Mrs Reynolds living in Pitt Street.... or I should say, one who would able to be a tenant. Who was Mrs Reynolds? She may be of no interest at all..... In September 1827 there are notices regarding the Administration of his Will and for people to contact either Edmund Burke or Miles Leary. In the same newspaper on 5 October 1827 "THE UNDERSIGNED ; being now of Age, request that all Claims aganist me, or the Estate of my Father, Mr Michael Byrne, late of King-steet, deceased, be presented to me for Payment ; and all Persons indebted to the said Estate, are also requested to discharge their respective Accounts, for which I will give receipts, otherwise I shall hand over those Claims to my Solicitor. WILLIAM BYRNE. 3d October, 1827" You did state that William and Michael were twins and were born in 1807 - so I wonder why both their names are not listed above. If William turned 21 sometime early in October 1827, then would he not have been born in October 1806? I realise that the 1828 NSW Census states both William and Michael were 21 - but William would have been 22 by then. Perhaps he and Michael were not twins. Michael snr. was sent to Norfolk Island in September 1805 - do you know how long he spent there? Aa a pregnancy usually lasts 9 months - the twins? would have been conceived about January 1806? ... so that means that Michael snr. was only on Norfolk Island for a few months from September 1805 to January 1806 - hardly seems worth sending him there. I do know that he was back in Sydney in late 1809 and onwards because there are references to him in the Sydney Gazette. How do you know that his children were both born in West Bargo Regards Lesley Uebel http://www.claimaconvict.net/index.html CLAIM A CONVICT email: [email protected] On 19/06/2011 9:25 AM, dianna charles wrote: > Hi Grahame > Thanks for your reply. It's very difficult to find these people on the > BDM as they are all Catholics, not too many early catholic births deaths etc > recorded. > > The information re his probate came from another descendant I believe > but as per usual I will have to go and find this out for myself. > > Theres so much information on Ancestry re the Byrne family, I've > tried to contact the people that have put the information on there but no > luck so far, I like to see all the certificates for myself before I come to > any conclusion. > > I may have to go through the Colonial Secretaries reels to see if > they reveal anything on his marriage or partner at least. Many thanks > Dianna > >

Thanks Lesley for that information, for a moment I thought there was something I missed. Despite absconding, Michael's Ticket of Leave was recommended in November 1836, with effect from 28th February, 1837 and announced in the Government Gazette of 15 March 1837. It was granted for the Maitland Police District but this also covered part of Wollombi so it is not clear where he lived. This was transferred to Patrick's Plains with effect from on 12 August, 1839, following approval by the Maitland Police Magistrate on 16.07.1839. At some time prior to 1839 he applied for permission to marry Mary Ann Cruse. This was refused. He later requested permission to marry Ann Kershaw 1839 of Wollombi. This was granted on 20.08.1839. This may have been the reason his ticket of leave being transferred. They were married on 11.09.1839 by Rev. Rev. Irving Hetherington, Saint Andrew's Church, Singleton, in a Presbyterian ceremony. James and Elizabeth Brown are given as witnesses .The certificate states that they were both living in Wollombi at the time. The reference to Wollombi Bridge party and that Ann Kershaw's father, Thomas Kershaw, was a convict supervisor in the area lead me to think that after his Ticket of Leave he remained in the district. I feel at this stage that the assignment records for are probably long gone. If anyone on the forum thinks otherwise or has any other leads it would be helpful and much appreciated.

How could I locate the on board muster for the Florentia (1) 1828 for a convict Michael Coughlan. Also Iindent states assigned to William Bucknell on the Alleyn River. I have details of this property and no record of Michael being there so I am assuming he arrived. Next mention of him is a court case in Sydney 1835 where it mentions him as an absconder from Wollombi Bridge Party. Found not guilty in the court case but held in custody as an absconder. Sent to Newcastle Gaol then Maitland Gaol for disposal. As I live in WA it is a lttle difficult to get to NSW State Archives to view and copy these documents. No further mention of him until his ticket of leave in 1837. Is it possible to find out details of the period he was with Bucknell or are those records lost. Great northern Road Project can not help me with Wollombi Bridge Party and I am having trouble finding anything out about it. Can anybody assist with suggestions to chase up these leads? Rob Coughlan

Hi Grahame Thanks for your reply. It's very difficult to find these people on the BDM as they are all Catholics, not too many early catholic births deaths etc recorded. The information re his probate came from another descendant I believe but as per usual I will have to go and find this out for myself. Theres so much information on Ancestry re the Byrne family, I've tried to contact the people that have put the information on there but no luck so far, I like to see all the certificates for myself before I come to any conclusion. I may have to go through the Colonial Secretaries reels to see if they reveal anything on his marriage or partner at least. Many thanks Dianna

Hello Rob I have a Coughlan married into my Crabtree family in Ireland - her name was also spelled Cawlin. Just in case this may be an avenue of approach for you. Best wishes Nadine Ireland ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Coughlan" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 5:49 AM Subject: [PJ] musters > How could I locate the on board muster for the Florentia (1) 1828 for a > convict Michael Coughlan. Also Iindent states assigned to William > Bucknell > on the Alleyn River. I have details of this property and no record of > Michael being there so I am assuming he arrived. Next mention of him is a > court case in Sydney 1835 where it mentions him as an absconder from > Wollombi Bridge Party. Found not guilty in the court case but held in > custody as an absconder. Sent to Newcastle Gaol then Maitland Gaol for > disposal. As I live in WA it is a lttle difficult to get to NSW State > Archives to view and copy these documents. No further mention of him > until > his ticket of leave in 1837. Is it possible to find out details of the > period he was with Bucknell or are those records lost. Great northern > Road > Project can not help me with Wollombi Bridge Party and I am having trouble > finding anything out about it. Can anybody assist with suggestions to > chase > up these leads? Rob Coughlan > > > ---------------------- > To send a message to the Port Jackson Convicts List, send an email to > [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Karen, I have not checked the original 1828 Census but it appears as though the "H" must have been incorrectly transcribed as "ST" . The year of arrival in the 1828 NSW Census is often incorrect although she did arrive very early in 1828 and tried in 1827 - so she may have made that error. As you state that she was sent to the 1st Class of the Parramatta Female Factory after her first assignment, it was not because of some misdemeanour. When she applied to marry Thomas her name was recorded as Hanson and the marriage records as Handley. In a letter from Governor Darling to Under Secretary Horton dated 15 December 1826 he states, in part and referring to Hall "He is a fellow without principle, an Apostate Missionary. I confess I am at a loss to discover his object. He is poor, a widower with eight young children, and must be aware that, in the event of being prosecuted, his imprisonment is inevitable..." The above was in part in relation to the well know Sudds case, in which Francis FORBES is also mentioned. Regards Lesley Uebel http://www.claimaconvict.net/index.html CLAIM A CONVICT email: [email protected] On 18/06/2011 3:28 PM, Karen Fountaine wrote: > Thank you for your reply Leslie, > > > > Catherine Hanlan/Hanley/ Hanlon depending on which record one looks at > married Thomas Nicholls per Earl St Vincent 1820. > > In June 1828 she was given up by her master& returned to the 1st class > women's factory, I assume this would have been William Forbes, > > > I have found her in the November 1828 census listed as Catherine Stanley per > Elizabeth 1827, was there an 1827 arrival? She is the right age and native > place. She was listed as working for E S Hall of the Monitor Newspaper. > > With her name listed as Hanley on her death certificate& her marriage > certificate state's it is Catherine Hanlen or Handley your guess is as good > as mine as to her real name! > > > The book I refer to is Elizabeth 1828 page 201 > > > > > > Cheers > > Karen nee Nicholls >