I have mixed experiences on this one, and none of them from the Western NSW area - all Gippsland. I think they mirror a little how women were viewed, and the single ones as opposed to the married ones. The three I can instantly call to mind are: A female (unmarried) teacher refusing to employ a pupil teacher in the 1870s/1880s, as she was "from the hotel" (ie her father was the publican) and it was even rumoured that she had served alcohol. This woman was, however, active in the temperance movement. The wife of one of the discoverers of Kalgoorlie. The couple ended up being the richest people around when they came back to Gippsland. However the society ladies never accepted her as she was the "daughter of the hotel, although she had never served in the bar and remained always in the parlour". She was, however, most revered, especially during WWI, but by the less exalted in society as an extremely practical philanthropist. Finally, there is something in the back of my mind about a time in Victorian history where there had to be a woman in some form of charge before a licence could be given for a hotel, as this was assumed to add a civilising influence. I THINK this may have been around the 1870s in a goldfields context. In other words, liquor control commissioners would not give a licence until a female presence could be demonstrated as a civilising influence. I do know one of my great aunts was highly esteemed for her role in outback hotels on the Darling, around 1900, but that was in conjunction with her husband. I suspect it was, as always, a case of it was an okay place for a married woman to be, but the bar was not really the place for either the married or unmarried woman, although they had a significant role as cooks and maids. So, I have just consulted my mother, who spent a short time working as a maid in hotels in both NSW and Victoria in the late 1940s. In the first one, in Windsor, NSW, she was under age and was not allowed in the bar in any capacity. In the second, in Heyfield, Victoria, she was over age, but there was no expectation to work in the bar as "there was a barman, and the licensee, and his wife, and it was the barman's job". "Did women ever pull beer in either of those hotels?" "The publicans wife did, in both of them". I've seen a bit in the paper recently about a book being released on female publicans - but I think they were just in Victoria. It was the subject of a PhD thesis. And I think it found several generations in some hotels, and was looked on by those women who were there, especially in the older generations, as somewhere a woman, often widowed, could work and support her family without having to go outside the "home" to work, and maintain her self-respect. Interesting subject! Linda At 12:54 PM 26/10/03 +1100, Jill wrote: >Hi List >Re Lorraine's comments about not liking your ancestor was a barmaid, I have >had the general impression from my research that being a barmaid in these >country pubs in the last part of the 19th century was not a "rough" >occupation. I'm only taking about an impression, but it seems as though >these women were accomplished cooks and housekeepers rather than rough >barmaids, as we might think of them in tough Sydney pubs in the early part >of the twentieth century. Can anyone out there confirm my impression? > >Jill

Having done the Hotels for out West, it is perhaps significant that I have very little that I can add to the role played by women within hotels. I saw the interview about the PhD thesis on women in hotels. I agree that publican's licenses could be granted to both men and women. In the west the overwhelming majority of these licenses went to men. Most of the licenses that did go to women were issued because they were the widows of the publican of that hotel. The Publican's Licensing Act of 1863 said that these licenses could be transferred without contest ie. it was accepted that the woman could carry on the job in the absence of the husband. However this view of a woman as a mirror image of her husband could have a downside. His suspected "crimes" became hers. Mrs Whiteus applied for the license of the Carrier's Arms, Booligal, and was opposed by the police. She was the widow of John Whiteus, and the House,...manager of the House and whatever scandal brought forward would have to be proved...The heinous crime of which they were accused was unlicensed entertainment. And before anyone starts conjuring up pictures in their mind of what that might be - they were charged with playing music in their hotel when the hotel did not have an entertainment license. The matter was resolved with the concert room being made part of the public house, and thus under the control of the Bench. The police withdrew their objection, and Mrs W. got her license. ( Hay Standard, April 17, 1872.) The other claim of the PhD thesis was that women had a civilizing influence on the establishment. Out west - they could try. Mrs Smith of the Wilpatera Hotel, on the Anabranch, could not bear to see men drinking when she thought they had had enough and when asked how she prevented it, she replied in her direct way, "On Sundays I used to lock the door, put the key in my pocket and go for a walk in the bush picking wildflowers. Sometimes I would visit a neighbour." ....Mrs Smith...subdued the hard drinking fencers, drovers and teamsters who called at Wilpatera. Gradually they went for their sprees elsewhere and the lease of the hotel lapsed in 1874. ( Withers Maxine, Bushmen of the Great Anabranch, 1989, pp.64-65.) I did not come across any stipulation that there should be a woman in some form of authority for a publican's license in NSW. What did have to be provided at all times was accommodation and food. Now the Aussie bloke was not noted for being great in the kitchen, so perhaps this is where the idea came in of the necessity of a woman on the premises. In fact it is the woman as the provider of a pleasant function venue that is most presented in newspaper reports of the time. She is the one who effortlessly puts on a spread for 70 people for luncheon in a room bedecked with evergreens. Praise is always given to her at any gathering - particularly in the smaller hotels along the Darling. When it comes to the bigger centre, like Broken Hill at the peak of the mining boom, such nicieties as praising the hostess, seem largely to be forgotten. In hotel advertisements, much was made of the facilities offered and the name of the publican; only rarely were the contributions of the publican's wife mentioned. The above is just the official records - what actually happened might have been very different. My family had hotels along the Darling. This has been spoken of with pride, and there has never been any mention that this was in any way belittling for the woman. This I know is about publican's wives rather than barmaids as such - but it is the best that I can do. Regards..............Rusheen. > From: Linda Barraclough <kapana@netspace.net.au> > > I have mixed experiences on this one, and none of them from the Western NSW > area - all Gippsland. I think they mirror a little how women were viewed, > and the single ones as opposed to the married ones. > >> > Finally, there is something in the back of my mind about a time in > Victorian history where there had to be a woman in some form of charge > before a licence could be given for a hotel, as this was assumed to add a > civilising influence. I THINK this may have been around the 1870s in a > goldfields context. In other words, liquor control commissioners would not > give a licence until a female presence could be demonstrated as a > civilising influence. > > I do know one of my great aunts was highly esteemed for her role in outback > hotels on the Darling, around 1900, but that was in conjunction with her > husband. I suspect it was, as always, a case of it was an okay place for a > married woman to be, but the bar was not really the place for either the > married or unmarried woman, although they had a significant role as cooks > and maids. > > So, I have just consulted my mother, who spent a short time working as a > maid in hotels in both NSW and Victoria in the late 1940s. In the first > one, in Windsor, NSW, she was under age and was not allowed in the bar in > any capacity. In the second, in Heyfield, Victoria, she was over age, but > there was no expectation to work in the bar as "there was a barman, and the > licensee, and his wife, and it was the barman's job". "Did women ever pull > beer in either of those hotels?" "The publicans wife did, in both of them". > > I've seen a bit in the paper recently about a book being released on female > publicans - but I think they were just in Victoria. It was the subject of a > PhD thesis. And I think it found several generations in some hotels, and > was looked on by those women who were there, especially in the older > generations, as somewhere a woman, often widowed, could work and support > her family without having to go outside the "home" to work, and maintain > her self-respect. > > Interesting subject! > > Linda > > > At 12:54 PM 26/10/03 +1100, Jill wrote: >> Hi List >> Re Lorraine's comments about not liking your ancestor was a barmaid, I have >> had the general impression from my research that being a barmaid in these >> country pubs in the last part of the 19th century was not a "rough" >> occupation. I'm only taking about an impression, but it seems as though >> these women were accomplished cooks and housekeepers rather than rough >> barmaids, as we might think of them in tough Sydney pubs in the early part >> of the twentieth century. Can anyone out there confirm my impression? >> >> Jill