I have an interest in the following families in and around the Goulburn area, Rebecca GREEN = Nicholas MURRAY, c1887, Eliza GREEN = Joseph SEALES 1877 Jane GREEN = Arthur HOLBORROW C1875 William GREEN = Eliza CANT 1865 Letitia GREEN = Joseph ROSE 1890 Newtown NSW Do any of these folk appear in your tree ? Cheers, Lynne

(Re-posted as a community service to all genealogists.) SAVE THE 2006 CENSUS For many years local & family historians have tried to change the policy of destroying census forms after statistical data has been extracted, in Australia. In 2001 (as part of the Centenary of Federation celebrations) a trial took place which allowed individuals to request that their forms be retained. 53% of the population chose to retain their name identifiable data which is now housed at the National Archives until the year 2100. As 2001 was only a trial, there was no commitment to retain future censuses and the Australian Bureau of Statistics has recently released its proposals for the 2006 census, and is asking for submissions to be in by 30 July 2003. It is VITAL that all local & family historians (including friends and family) & interested persons make a personal submission by the 30th July 2003 requesting the following : That all forms in the 2006 & future Census in Australia should be retained by the National Archives in Australia because they are an invaluable record of Australian history, particularly for local & family history. The census is the only public record that records the name, address and occupation of every Australian. No other sources has this national coverage. At the very least, change the default option to retention of the form i.e. requiring individuals to specifically "opt out" of retention, rather than "opt in". Send your submissions, including your name, address, telephone, email (if applicable) and make sure you sign and date the letter. Submissions can be sent via email to [email protected] or posted to Roslyn Harvie, Population Census Development, Australian Bureau if Statistics, Locked Bag 10, Belconnen ACT 2016. Spread the word.....the more people we inform, the better response. A copy of the Information Paper: Census of Population and Housing, ABS Views on Content and Procedures (2007.0) is available to consult at http://www.ausstats.abs.gov.au/ausstats/free.nsf/Lookup/649C8AC4990CF250CA25 6D5700065D50/$File/20070%5F2006.pdf

Hi all, I am new to the list and researching the Collins and Summers families of the Illawarra district. COLLINS FAMILY My ancestor Thomas Collins born around 1823 and his wife Mary Harnett (Hartnett) born around 1829 in Co. Limerick Ireland immigrated to Australia on the ship "Success"arriving Sydney on 18-12-1849. Thomas and Mary were married in Co. Limerick in 1849 prior to leaving. They were accompanied by Thomas`s brother John ,his wife Johanna and 2 children together with brother Dennis and sister Margaret. I believe Thomas selected land at Jamberoo. The family was joining their father Dennis Collins ,born around 1793, in the Illawarra district. Dennis of Abbeyfale Co. Limerick was convicted of sheep stealing at Listowel Co. Kerry in 1834 and transported for life on the "Backwell" in 1835 aged 42. Dennis was married to Elizabeth [surname unknown] SUMMERS FAMILY Richard Summers born around 1824 and his wife Mary born around 1834 with their daughter Mary Ann ( 1 year old ) arrived in Sydney on the ship "Regina" on 23-06-1857.The parents gave their native place as Co. Galway, Ireland. Mary's place of birth was Gurnsey, Channel Islands. I believe they had at least 2 more children Richard and Bridget who were born in Australia. Mary Ann Summers married Michael Collins, son of Thomas and Mary Collins, at Dapto N.S.W. Nov 1879.A birth certificate of one of their children born in 1886 however gave Mary Ann's place of birth as Jersey and not Gurnsey as stated. It is believed that Mary"s parents did not approve of the marriage and are said to have disowned her.However her brother and sister appear to be witnesses at her wedding and Mary still had contact with them when she and her family moved to Queensland around 1900. I would like to hear from anyone with information about these families.At least with the Collins family i have town names in Co. Limerick and Co. Kerry. For the Summers family i only have Co. Galway and no idea of where they lived. Kerry.

Dear Jury: This is my second posting of the jury instructions. It seems I may have posted them to the wrong group the first time. I am really sorry I made that mistake. Okay here we go: JURY INSTRUCTIONS IN THE MATTER OF THE CROWN -V- WILLIAM RANDALL 1. Determine the case on its merits. 2. Be mindful of the charge "Guilty of Intent to do Grievous Bodily Harm." Intent is defined as a state of mind wherein the person knows and desires the consequences of his actions which must exist at the time the offense was committed. However, in this case only GENERAL INTENT is required for a finding of guilty. Which means the prosecutor does not have to prove the defendant intended to injure his wife with exact injury to her head. He only need prove defendant threw the object at her or used his hand to hit her. To prove general intent it need only be proven the defendant took physical action towards his wife. The prosecutor does not have to prove the exact injury was what the defendant had in mind. 3. There are no qualified expert witness at this trial. The non-expert cannot give an opinion regarding how Mrs. Randall was injured. However, Mrs. Randall can give a statement as to how she was injured. 4. Any witness who testified as to what they were told is not allowed for consideration. They can only testify as to what happened when they were present. They cannot tell you what someone else told them. 5. You must be of the opinion that the grievous bodily injury was UNLAWFULLY committed. 6. You WILL NOT consider that the parties involved were drinking or under the influence. The alleged action and the possible resulting injury need only be considered. 7. Do not consider any testimony regarding John Randall. 8. Do not consider any testimony of the police officer. 9. Do not consider any testimony regarding defendants reputation or past crimes. They are not relevant to this action. 10. You must decide which witness carries the most weight. 11. The prosecution is required to prove their case beyond a shadow of a doubt. 12. In the alternative if you determine defendant injured Mrs. Randall but did not intend to. You may find him guilty of gross negligence when inflicting injury. The Judge

Oops, address should be http://home.iprimus.com.au/pjmg/Family_history/Surname_interest_%20list.htm Penny ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Family History" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 7:39 AM Subject: Surname interest list for the Goulburn district > Hi all, > > I have added a page to my site, for people who want to list their research > interests in the Goulburn area. The address is > > http://home.iprimus.com.au/pjmg/family_history/surname_interest_list > > If you would like to add your details, please email me off list. > > Regards, > > Penny > > >

Hi all, I have added a page to my site, for people who want to list their research interests in the Goulburn area. The address is http://home.iprimus.com.au/pjmg/family_history/surname_interest_list If you would like to add your details, please email me off list. Regards, Penny

----- Original Message ----- Hi Wade Found this on the Colonial Secretarys Correspondence 1788-1825 - maybe if you looked up the reel (if you have not already done so) it may tell you something. FEARNESS, George. Per "Mangles", 1820 1822 Dec 22 On return of convicts discharged from the Establishment, Emu Plains; to Dr West's clearing party (Reel 6028; 2/8283 p.127) What was Dr west's christian name? Regards Joanne

Hi I'm new to list. Saw in the archives (2000) that a Charmaine Fripp was looking for info on the Lovells from that area. Does any one have a current e-mail address for her? Lionel Lovell

Hello AUS-NSW-SE-L, To "officially" inform the Jury of 12, .................................we have as a jury been officially dismissed as we are unable to reach a verdict (that is unanimously). -- Best regards, Mel Grieveson. mailto:[email protected]

Thanks Ray. Iwas aware what the parties did. It was that particular party of Dr Wests that I was interested in and the land clearing it undertook in the years from December 22 1822. I will follow up the muster records you mention. Wade ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 4:52 PM Subject: Re: Stewart & "clearing party" > Hello Wade. > You asked below, what a clearing party did. > > A clearing party was comprised of "government servants" -- i.e.: convicts, > who at certain times of the year, were taken from their normal government > duties (such as working in Road Gangs etc), and placed for a short period of > time with a large landowner, to do certain work for that owner -- such as > harvesting, etc. > > The work required of clearing parties was to clear the land of the native > growth of timber etc., to make it suitable to cultivate the land for the > production of imported plants to feed or otherwise use for white humans' > purposes, or that of their imported animals etc. By this I mean to clear the > land to grow food, wheat, barley, etc.; or as grazing land for sheep, > cattle, horses, etc. > > I was just going to refer you to Manning Clark's "History of Australia" for > more information -- but on checking the index there -- guess what? --- > there was not any reference to "convict" !! What a flaw! > > Nor can I find details in the index to the Australian Encyclopaedia. > > You will probably find details in an information leaflet from the NSW State > Records people, about convicts or convict assignments etc. -- they are > available on-line at State Records' web-site. > > Also check out the indexes to some of the books which specialised in > convicts, such as those by: A.G.L. SHAW, Lloyd L. ROBSON, John HIRST (I hope > that this is the correct spelling), ?? NICHOLSON. I don't have their exact > book titles in my head, but I am sure that your local friendly librarian can > search under those surnames, and for titles which include "convict" or > "convicts" in their names; and you should have a minefield of information. > University libraries should also have copies available for you to read and > photocopy immediately. (Some guesses are: "Convicts and the Colonies", > "Convict Society and its Enemies"). Even try a Google search with just one > of the above author surnames, plus "convict", and you will probably find the > full details. > > If you are anywhere near the Mitchell Library in Sydney, I am sure that > their card index would have references to clearing parties. Similarly, > check whatever indexes they currently have available to the Sydney Gazette, > for mention of clearing parties. > > My suspicion is that your fellow will have been in a Road Gang, so if you > check at most local libraries in the Genealogical Record Kit (GRK), there > might be an index on the "Assignment of Convicts" microfilm reel. (Just > guessing here of course). > > I feel confident that if you check the publications of the AGCI -- I know > that the genealogy section of the NSW State Library here in Sydney holds > them -- looking under the names separately of your convict, and also of Dr > WELLS -- you will probably find some good leads. > > Additionally, the Society of Genealogists in NSW last year published the > various early Convict Musters. There is one for around 1821 which might show > your guy (as long as he had arrived here before the Muster was taken). I > cannot recall off-hand the subsequent Muster years -- but check for them. > And of course the 1828 Census should show him, his family, etc.; and you > could also check up in that on Dr WELLS. > > Apologies to all that this has rambled on for so long, as well as for the > fact that it is so vague; but I do hope that it helps you in your research. > Regards: ray in sydney > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wade Cox" <[email protected]> > > > Was this Alexander Stewart once in Braidwood? > > > James Pender came out in 1821. He was on Dr West's Clearing party in > 1822. Does anyone know of the tasks of the clearing party from 1822? (He was > 16 when he stole 6 pence worth of bread, beef and mutton for food and got > seven years transportation. He never did that again.) ........ Any ideas > anyone? Who were the relatives? > > > Wade Cox > > > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

Hello Wade. You asked below, what a clearing party did. A clearing party was comprised of "government servants" -- i.e.: convicts, who at certain times of the year, were taken from their normal government duties (such as working in Road Gangs etc), and placed for a short period of time with a large landowner, to do certain work for that owner -- such as harvesting, etc. The work required of clearing parties was to clear the land of the native growth of timber etc., to make it suitable to cultivate the land for the production of imported plants to feed or otherwise use for white humans' purposes, or that of their imported animals etc. By this I mean to clear the land to grow food, wheat, barley, etc.; or as grazing land for sheep, cattle, horses, etc. I was just going to refer you to Manning Clark's "History of Australia" for more information -- but on checking the index there -- guess what? --- there was not any reference to "convict" !! What a flaw! Nor can I find details in the index to the Australian Encyclopaedia. You will probably find details in an information leaflet from the NSW State Records people, about convicts or convict assignments etc. -- they are available on-line at State Records' web-site. Also check out the indexes to some of the books which specialised in convicts, such as those by: A.G.L. SHAW, Lloyd L. ROBSON, John HIRST (I hope that this is the correct spelling), ?? NICHOLSON. I don't have their exact book titles in my head, but I am sure that your local friendly librarian can search under those surnames, and for titles which include "convict" or "convicts" in their names; and you should have a minefield of information. University libraries should also have copies available for you to read and photocopy immediately. (Some guesses are: "Convicts and the Colonies", "Convict Society and its Enemies"). Even try a Google search with just one of the above author surnames, plus "convict", and you will probably find the full details. If you are anywhere near the Mitchell Library in Sydney, I am sure that their card index would have references to clearing parties. Similarly, check whatever indexes they currently have available to the Sydney Gazette, for mention of clearing parties. My suspicion is that your fellow will have been in a Road Gang, so if you check at most local libraries in the Genealogical Record Kit (GRK), there might be an index on the "Assignment of Convicts" microfilm reel. (Just guessing here of course). I feel confident that if you check the publications of the AGCI -- I know that the genealogy section of the NSW State Library here in Sydney holds them -- looking under the names separately of your convict, and also of Dr WELLS -- you will probably find some good leads. Additionally, the Society of Genealogists in NSW last year published the various early Convict Musters. There is one for around 1821 which might show your guy (as long as he had arrived here before the Muster was taken). I cannot recall off-hand the subsequent Muster years -- but check for them. And of course the 1828 Census should show him, his family, etc.; and you could also check up in that on Dr WELLS. Apologies to all that this has rambled on for so long, as well as for the fact that it is so vague; but I do hope that it helps you in your research. Regards: ray in sydney ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wade Cox" <[email protected]> > Was this Alexander Stewart once in Braidwood? > James Pender came out in 1821. He was on Dr West's Clearing party in 1822. Does anyone know of the tasks of the clearing party from 1822? (He was 16 when he stole 6 pence worth of bread, beef and mutton for food and got seven years transportation. He never did that again.) ........ Any ideas anyone? Who were the relatives? > Wade Cox

One piece of information that may be of interest re Braidwood and the County of Argyle is that many convicts were given early land grants in the area of Goulburn, Bungonia and Lake Bathurst. There were also a clutch of Navy people who were friends of the nephew of Nelson who were given grants in the Braidwood area and Army people also received assistance. Vicki has relatives in the Braidwood district it turns out and perhaps there may be a connection to the Army in the Stewarts there. Let us see what comes out of the question. Wade

Thanks Joanne, That was one of the Millards on the site who are descendents also. The email address is wrong so I have not gone any further. Wade ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron & Joanne Flack" <[email protected]> To: "Wade Cox" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 2:16 PM Subject: Re: West Party > Hello Wade > > Found the following on Lesley Uebel's Wabpage "Claim a Convict": > > Pinder, James (Pender) "Hindostan"1821 Tried Wakefield 1821 7 years. He has > been claimed by somebody so if you go to > > > http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/page67.html > > and click on his name it will take you to the eamil of that claimer. > > If you join the [email protected],con List and post your interst > maybe other Listers can help also. > > Regards > > Joanne > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wade Cox" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 11:39 AM > Subject: West Party > > > > This is the detail for the Colonial Secretaries Index. > > Has anyone any detail re this party? > > > > Wade > > > > > > > > Pindar (Pender) James. Per "Hindostan", 1821 1822 Dec 22 On return of > convicts discharged from the Establishment, Emu Plains; to Dr West's > clearing party (Reel 6028; 2/8283 p.127) > > > > > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, > go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > >

Hello Wade Found the following on Lesley Uebel's Wabpage "Claim a Convict": Pinder, James (Pender) "Hindostan"1821 Tried Wakefield 1821 7 years. He has been claimed by somebody so if you go to http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/page67.html and click on his name it will take you to the eamil of that claimer. If you join the [email protected],con List and post your interst maybe other Listers can help also. Regards Joanne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wade Cox" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 11:39 AM Subject: West Party > This is the detail for the Colonial Secretaries Index. > Has anyone any detail re this party? > > Wade > > > > Pindar (Pender) James. Per "Hindostan", 1821 1822 Dec 22 On return of convicts discharged from the Establishment, Emu Plains; to Dr West's clearing party (Reel 6028; 2/8283 p.127) > > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

Thanks Cathy, I must have misunderstood the conversation. Wade ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cathy Dunn" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 12:24 PM Subject: Re: Stewart > At 12:23 PM 2/07/2003 +1000, you wrote: > >Wade wrote: > >They were allegedly the second white family in Ulladulla after the > >Kendalls and their next child was born there in 1836. Cathy Dunn will > >correct me if I am wrong on this. > > Yes wrong - there were many other families in the region apart for the > Kendalls by 1836 > James Pender is listed as a labourer of Kendalldale in 1836 on some old > baptism records > > Cathy Dunn > www.ulladulla.info/history > > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

At 12:23 PM 2/07/2003 +1000, you wrote: >Wade wrote: >They were allegedly the second white family in Ulladulla after the >Kendalls and their next child was born there in 1836. Cathy Dunn will >correct me if I am wrong on this. Yes wrong - there were many other families in the region apart for the Kendalls by 1836 James Pender is listed as a labourer of Kendalldale in 1836 on some old baptism records Cathy Dunn www.ulladulla.info/history

Dear Jury: In the matter of the Crown -v- Randall it seems there is a hung jury. This means the case will be dismissed. This is an unfortunate event. This ruling does make the Defendant guilty or innocent. All it means is the case is being dismissed. It other words it never happened. If that is the situation then the Crown could bring this matter to trial again. If any juror thinks the dismissing of this case is not a viable solution please contact me. The hung jury condition is not a solution for the parties involved. It leaves a question without an answer. I must say this is not the conclusion I was hoping for. I have my own opinion on guilt or innocents. However, I still do not want to influence anyone. I was hoping for a free discussion regarding the witness testimony. It was important to know which testimony carried the most weight. When I presented this question to the jury I received one answer. I am really curious to know what each of you are thinking. How you came to your conclusion. If any of you are interested in continuing with this matter please let me know. At this point I would like to know if you are interested in my effort to bring this matter to a final conclusion. If you are you may email me at [email protected] I will wait to see what kind of response I get prior to issuing a statement from the bench. Very Truly Yours, The Judge

This is the detail for the Colonial Secretaries Index. Has anyone any detail re this party? Wade Pindar (Pender) James. Per "Hindostan", 1821 1822 Dec 22 On return of convicts discharged from the Establishment, Emu Plains; to Dr West's clearing party (Reel 6028; 2/8283 p.127)

Errors. 1934 should read 1834 First child was baptised at Lake Bathurst in 1834 if unclear. Wade ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wade Cox" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 12:23 PM Subject: Stewart > Hi Vicki, > > Was this Alexander Stewart once in Braidwood? > > My GG grandma was Mary Ann Stewart who came out free on the Red Rover in 1831 and married James Pender in Braidwood district in 1833. The town of Braidwood did not exist until it was surveyed in 1839 and settled in 1840. The locations were known by the sub district settlements. We are having difficulty finding the records for such an early date as the Anglican records seem to be hard to locate until 1834 where a marriage is listed for what is Arnprior. They lived at Inverary Station north of Lake Bathurst which was the old route into Braidwood from Marulan along the Durran Durra. They lived there until 1835 or 1836 when they moved to Ulladulla. Their first child was baptised there by Vincent the Anglican minister for the parishes of Goulburn, Bungonia and Lake Bathurst. > > They were allegedly the second white family in Ulladulla after the Kendalls and their next child was born there in 1836. Cathy Dunn will correct me if I am wrong on this. > > James Pender came out in 1821. He was on Dr West's Clearing party in 1822. Does anyone know of the tasks of the clearing party from 1822? (He was 16 when he stole 6 pence worth of bread, beef and mutton for food and got seven years transportation. He never did that again.) > > She had relatives in Braidwood as they went back there often and at least two children were baptised there according to the old Anglican records. However, my GG grandfather George Pender was baptised near Sydney in 1841 and Presbyterian, so it occurred to me that her relative may have been a soldier. > > The other possibility is that it was the Stewarts in Charlestown and later Jerrabattgulla Creek at Toggranoggerah. James's death certificate list her as Steward which was the original name of the Stewarts of Charlestown and Toggranogggerah. However, James Jnr did not write the certificate and so the information was recorded for him and this may have been a simple transcription error. > > The marriage seems to have been the first marriage in the Braidwood district. We are having difficulty of finding any records at all prior to 1934 from the Anglican archives. > > The location of the relatives may find the first wife also if it is Alexander Stewart that was her relative. There may be others as well related in the areas. > The problem with the Braidwood Stewarts is that the Stewarts of Charleyong came later to the area. The Stuarts of Majors Creek were from a convict from Mt Elrington at Farringdon who settled there and had the French spelling to his name. The only others were the Stewarts of Charlestown who were once Stewards and settled up river. > > A daughter of James and Mary Ann married one of the Smiths from the Mongarlowe area. > > Any ideas anyone? Who were the relatives? > > Wade Cox > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

Hi Vicki, Was this Alexander Stewart once in Braidwood? My GG grandma was Mary Ann Stewart who came out free on the Red Rover in 1831 and married James Pender in Braidwood district in 1833. The town of Braidwood did not exist until it was surveyed in 1839 and settled in 1840. The locations were known by the sub district settlements. We are having difficulty finding the records for such an early date as the Anglican records seem to be hard to locate until 1834 where a marriage is listed for what is Arnprior. They lived at Inverary Station north of Lake Bathurst which was the old route into Braidwood from Marulan along the Durran Durra. They lived there until 1835 or 1836 when they moved to Ulladulla. Their first child was baptised there by Vincent the Anglican minister for the parishes of Goulburn, Bungonia and Lake Bathurst. They were allegedly the second white family in Ulladulla after the Kendalls and their next child was born there in 1836. Cathy Dunn will correct me if I am wrong on this. James Pender came out in 1821. He was on Dr West's Clearing party in 1822. Does anyone know of the tasks of the clearing party from 1822? (He was 16 when he stole 6 pence worth of bread, beef and mutton for food and got seven years transportation. He never did that again.) She had relatives in Braidwood as they went back there often and at least two children were baptised there according to the old Anglican records. However, my GG grandfather George Pender was baptised near Sydney in 1841 and Presbyterian, so it occurred to me that her relative may have been a soldier. The other possibility is that it was the Stewarts in Charlestown and later Jerrabattgulla Creek at Toggranoggerah. James's death certificate list her as Steward which was the original name of the Stewarts of Charlestown and Toggranogggerah. However, James Jnr did not write the certificate and so the information was recorded for him and this may have been a simple transcription error. The marriage seems to have been the first marriage in the Braidwood district. We are having difficulty of finding any records at all prior to 1934 from the Anglican archives. The location of the relatives may find the first wife also if it is Alexander Stewart that was her relative. There may be others as well related in the areas. The problem with the Braidwood Stewarts is that the Stewarts of Charleyong came later to the area. The Stuarts of Majors Creek were from a convict from Mt Elrington at Farringdon who settled there and had the French spelling to his name. The only others were the Stewarts of Charlestown who were once Stewards and settled up river. A daughter of James and Mary Ann married one of the Smiths from the Mongarlowe area. Any ideas anyone? Who were the relatives? Wade Cox