Thanks Deb, I'm not a Thunderbolt researcher but curious to see what others make of it. Late now so I'll look into all the URLs you sent later .. thanks. Re the material ..... """"""""" Frederick Ward was born in 1835 in Wilberforce, near Windsor, though there is no official record of his birth. He worked as a drover and horsebreaker at Tocal Station on the Paterson River until his arrest in 1856 for receiving seventy-five stolen horses. He was sentenced to ten years hard labour. He was released in 1860, but he returned to Cockatoo Island to complete his sentence after being tried for horse stealing. Ward escaped in 1863 with the help of his wife, Mary Ann. They lived on the Culgoa River near Bourke until Ward adopted the name 'Captain Thunderbolt in 1865. With associates, Ward carried out armed robberies near Bourke, Moree and Gunnedah. Alone and with a reward of 200 pounds on his head, Ward held up a mailman in 1867 and was almost captured while drunk near Manilla. In November that year his wife died of pneumonuia. Ward then worked with William Monckton, a 13 year old runaway, until October 1868. On 25 May, 1870 Ward was surprised while testing a horse, chased and shot by Constable Alexander Binney Walker at Kentucky Creek near Uralla. A Protestant, he was buried in Uralla cemetery without religious rites. Ward's career as a professional bushranger is attributed to his horsemanship, choice of horse, never taking on armed guards or police and popular sympathy due to his gentlemanly behaviour. [1]http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/thunderbolt.htm """"""""" ...... it is not stated where this comes from. It is however all stuff you can find in one or more of the various Thunderbolt accounts around. So, Mary swam the water with breakout tools and they broke out and bolted for the Culgoa ..... Back o' Bourke. To get far away from Sydney and any authorities the Culgoa would be fine. To go up the Culgoa, go to Bourke then head up the Darling and just keep going (don't veer right in to the Barwon). Places on/near the Culgoa are Goodooga and Weilmoringle. [Goodooga is actually on the Bokhara River, a parallle 'splay' to the Culgoa.] Goodooga is supposedly an Aboriginal word meaning "Yam". Mrs Thunderbolt being Aboriginal would know how to harvest/cook yams? Goodooga in fact is made up largely of indigenous Australians. It does sound an apt place to be legendary hideout of Captain Thunderbolt and his ?small ?band. Anyone who really wants to know what they think of Thunderbolt going to there, in Goodooga can check with Tiger Cochrane who seems to be a willing the contact on the village website (phone 0268296008). "It's is also believed that that large amounts of opal and gold are situated under and around Goodooga" - I know that as I'm a geologist, yet despite those claims of large amounts of gold and opals there none of the mineral explorers of modern times has found it. Here's who's-who at Goodooga = [2]http://mc2.vicnet.net.au/home/pmackett/nswsmith.html Goodooga had a population of 29 in 1994. The other centre along the Culgoa is Weilmoringle. It only has a handful of houses. In "New South Wales Aboriginal Deaths 1839-1945" you'll find that death 8046/1926 is "Thunderbolt", a 71 year old Aborigine who died at New Angledool (same region of NSW). Now 71 from 1926 means 1855 .... and this person whoever it was would have been aged 10 around the time when it is thought Ward on/near the Culgoa assumed the name Thunderbolt. Also, Kitty Thunderbolt died at New Angledool in 1916 (aged 67). And Jack Thunderbolt died at New Angledool in 1917. Any connection? It was an early habit of some Aborigines to 'exchange' names, including with Europeans. Or could the Wards have taken up an existing name at the Culgoa region for some reason. Or is this all just a meaningless coincidence? Cheers, John On Tue Mar 22 14:37 , 'Deb' sent: Hi John & listers, Firstly, regarding Frederick Ward (Thunderbolt), no record of his birth has been found, even according to the registry itself. See [3]http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/thunderbolt.htm which also shows his death certificate (cert.copy). I don't know if it is true but I have read Thunderbolt was a Protestant and could have been born illegitimately. At the time of his birth (which ever date you agree with) you are actually talking about a record of baptism not a "registration" even though they appear as registrations in the registry's records. If a child was not baptised they may not have been recorded at all. Illegitimacy may be one reason, distance/remoteness another, remembering there wasn't a church for every denomination in every area at all times and just because the few Ministers travelled around doesn't mean they had contact with everyone or recorded events at the actual time they occurred, I would imagine. I remember reading somewhere that some, so attached to their own faith, refused to use a C of E minister and preferred to go without any marriage/baptism ceremony in the absence of their own. In 1810 the Governor had ordered Chaplains to keep registers of all births and deaths in their parish/district. I don't for one minute believe these were all accurate... and whilst C of E ministers were required to record & pass on registers to the government, other denominations were not required to until later years - see chart on guide 4 (these time gaps increase the likelihood of lost or inaccurate records in my opinion). I don't know anything about actual "gaps" in the records but living in the harsh environment of the colony (incl flood/fire), anything could happen to parish registers. Even in "civilised" England parish records have sometimes been lost/destroyed in full or part. In the guide 4 mentioned below you can look at the break down at "Detailed list of registers". Hopefully the following links & reading between the lines will give you an idea of why some births may not have been "registered". It pays to look for the background of records on the websites where you access them. I'm all for studies but you don't need a study to see that the record keeping was far from perfect in the colony. I think it was a miracle some births were recorded at all! History of the registry's records [4]http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/historyofRegistrysRec.htm The 1810 order (partial quote) on the baptism page (SRNSW) [5]http://tinyurl.com/4fe7ewm Short Guide 4 - Attorney General and Justice: Registers of births, deaths and marriages (SRNSW) [6]http://tinyurl.com/4do9usx You may be interested in this page on lost & saved convict records which includes some census discussion (SRNSW). [7]http://tinyurl.com/4cuv9h5 Regarding census/musters, are you aware of the following page? It is fantastic to refer to. [8]http://www.convictcentral.com/index.html regards, Deb. -----Original Message----- From: [9]john.mail@ozemail.com.au Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 6:44 PM To: [10]aus-nsw-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HV] Thunderbolts middle name Hi Richard, If you check BDM online he doesn't appear to have been a registered birth(?). Even the cold hard facts of the governor general's last Sunday lunch are quickly lost if the guv'mint or someone aren't doing their job. Perhaps they had a budget cut the year Thunderbolt was born and decided only to register two out of every five births at Wilberforce. I'm particularly interested in just how gaps in records came about. Or in any published studies on such. For convict records there's been a few studies, apparently, of how records came to get lost, or wilfully destroyed. But what happened to those studies? Perhaps they got lost too? I suspect it is all very complicated ... if only we knew. Cheers, John Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [11]AUS-NSW-HUNTER-VALLEY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ) References 1. https://mail.iinet.net.au/mail/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bdm.nsw.gov.au%2FfamilyHistory%2Fthunderbolt.htm 2. http://mc2.vicnet.net.au/home/pmackett/nswsmith.html 3. file://localhost/tmp/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bdm.nsw.gov.au%2FfamilyHistory%2Fthunderbolt.htm 4. file://localhost/tmp/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bdm.nsw.gov.au%2FfamilyHistory%2FhistoryofRegistrysRec.htm 5. file://localhost/tmp/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Ftinyurl.com%2F4fe7ewm 6. file://localhost/tmp/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Ftinyurl.com%2F4do9usx 7. file://localhost/tmp/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Ftinyurl.com%2F4cuv9h5 8. file://localhost/tmp/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.convictcentral.com%2Findex.html 9. javascript:top.opencompose('john.mail@ozemail.com.au','','','') 10. javascript:top.opencompose('aus-nsw-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com','','','') 11. javascript:top.opencompose('AUS-NSW-HUNTER-VALLEY-request@rootsweb.com','','','')

Hi The information about Captain Thunderbolt and his 'career' which extended from the Hawkesbury to New England and then to the Narran is very interesting. I am interested in researching further my own family in the Narran area to the Warrego and would be very grateful if anyone can give me some leads on historical information available. My family were involved in horse and cattle stealing in exactly the same areas at the same time as Thunderbolt. There is a family story that one of them was involved with Thunderbolt. My g grandfather William McKenzie who was born at Pitt Town is alleged to have died at Gideon's Inn on the Narran while dancing a hornpipe. I am interested to know more about the area. The McKenzies had leases from the New England area to the Warrego in Queensland. Jean On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 1:12 AM, john.mail@ozemail.com.au < john.mail@ozemail.com.au> wrote: > > Thanks Deb, > I'm not a Thunderbolt researcher but curious to see what others make of > it. > Late now so I'll look into all the URLs you sent later .. thanks. > Re the material ..... > """"""""" > > Frederick Ward was born in 1835 in Wilberforce, near Windsor, though > there > is no official record of his birth. He worked as a drover and > horsebreaker > at Tocal Station on the Paterson River until his arrest in 1856 for > receiving seventy-five stolen horses. He was sentenced to ten years hard > labour. He was released in 1860, but he returned to Cockatoo Island to > complete his sentence after being tried for horse stealing. > Ward escaped in 1863 with the help of his wife, Mary Ann. They lived on > the > Culgoa River near Bourke until Ward adopted the name 'Captain Thunderbolt > in > 1865. With associates, Ward carried out armed robberies near Bourke, > Moree > and Gunnedah. Alone and with a reward of 200 pounds on his head, Ward > held > up a mailman in 1867 and was almost captured while drunk near Manilla. In > November that year his wife died of pneumonuia. > Ward then worked with William Monckton, a 13 year old runaway, until > October > 1868. On 25 May, 1870 Ward was surprised while testing a horse, chased > and > shot by Constable Alexander Binney Walker at Kentucky Creek near Uralla. > A > Protestant, he was buried in Uralla cemetery without religious rites. > Ward's career as a professional bushranger is attributed to his > horsemanship, choice of horse, never taking on armed guards or police and > popular sympathy due to his gentlemanly behaviour. > [1]http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/thunderbolt.htm > """"""""" > ...... it is not stated where this comes from. > It is however all stuff you can find in one or more of the various > Thunderbolt accounts around. > So, Mary swam the water with breakout tools and they broke out and bolted > for the Culgoa ..... Back o' Bourke. > To get far away from Sydney and any authorities the Culgoa would be fine. > To go up the Culgoa, go to Bourke then head up the Darling and just keep > going (don't veer right in to the Barwon). > Places on/near the Culgoa are Goodooga and Weilmoringle. [Goodooga is > actually on the Bokhara River, a parallle 'splay' to the Culgoa.] > Goodooga is supposedly an Aboriginal word meaning "Yam". > Mrs Thunderbolt being Aboriginal would know how to harvest/cook yams? > Goodooga in fact is made up largely of indigenous Australians. > It does sound an apt place to be legendary hideout of Captain Thunderbolt > and his ?small ?band. > Anyone who really wants to know what they think of Thunderbolt going to > there, in Goodooga can check with Tiger Cochrane who seems to be a > willing the contact on the village website (phone 0268296008). > > "It's is also believed that that large amounts of opal and gold are > situated > under and around Goodooga" - I know that as I'm a geologist, yet despite > those claims of large amounts of gold and opals there none of the mineral > explorers of modern times has found it. > Here's who's-who at Goodooga = > [2]http://mc2.vicnet.net.au/home/pmackett/nswsmith.html > Goodooga had a population of 29 in 1994. > The other centre along the Culgoa is Weilmoringle. > It only has a handful of houses. > In "New South Wales Aboriginal Deaths 1839-1945" you'll find that death > 8046/1926 is "Thunderbolt", a 71 year old Aborigine who died at New > Angledool (same region of NSW). > Now 71 from 1926 means 1855 .... and this person whoever it was would > have > been aged 10 around the time when it is thought Ward on/near the Culgoa > assumed the name Thunderbolt. > Also, Kitty Thunderbolt died at New Angledool in 1916 (aged 67). > And Jack Thunderbolt died at New Angledool in 1917. > Any connection? > It was an early habit of some Aborigines to 'exchange' names, including > with > Europeans. > Or could the Wards have taken up an existing name at the Culgoa region > for > some reason. > Or is this all just a meaningless coincidence? > Cheers, > John > > On Tue Mar 22 14:37 , 'Deb' sent: > > Hi John & listers, > Firstly, regarding Frederick Ward (Thunderbolt), no record of his birth > has > been found, even according to the registry itself. See > [3]http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/thunderbolt.htm which also > shows his > death certificate (cert.copy). > I don't know if it is true but I have read Thunderbolt was a Protestant > and > could have been born illegitimately. At the time of his birth (which > ever > date you agree with) you are actually talking about a record of baptism > not > a "registration" even though they appear as registrations in the > registry's > records. If a child was not baptised they may not have been recorded at > all. Illegitimacy may be one reason, distance/remoteness another, > remembering there wasn't a church for every denomination in every area > at > all times and just because the few Ministers travelled around doesn't > mean > they had contact with everyone or recorded events at the actual time > they > occurred, I would imagine. I remember reading somewhere that some, so > attached to their own faith, refused to use a C of E minister and > preferred > to go without any marriage/baptism ceremony in the absence of their > own. > In 1810 the Governor had ordered Chaplains to keep registers of all > births > and deaths in their parish/district. I don't for one minute believe > these > were all accurate... and whilst C of E ministers were required to > record & > pass on registers to the government, other denominations were not > required > to until later years - see chart on guide 4 (these time gaps increase > the > likelihood of lost or inaccurate records in my opinion). I don't know > anything about actual "gaps" in the records but living in the harsh > environment of the colony (incl flood/fire), anything could happen to > parish > registers. Even in "civilised" England parish records have sometimes > been > lost/destroyed in full or part. In the guide 4 mentioned below you can > look > at the break down at "Detailed list of registers". > Hopefully the following links & reading between the lines will give you > an > idea of why some births may not have been "registered". It pays to look > for > the background of records on the websites where you access them. I'm > all > for studies but you don't need a study to see that the record keeping > was > far from perfect in the colony. I think it was a miracle some births > were > recorded at all! > History of the registry's records > [4]http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/historyofRegistrysRec.htm > The 1810 order (partial quote) on the baptism page (SRNSW) > [5]http://tinyurl.com/4fe7ewm > Short Guide 4 - Attorney General and Justice: Registers of births, > deaths > and marriages (SRNSW) > [6]http://tinyurl.com/4do9usx > You may be interested in this page on lost & saved convict records > which > includes some census discussion (SRNSW). > [7]http://tinyurl.com/4cuv9h5 > Regarding census/musters, are you aware of the following page? It is > fantastic to refer to. > [8]http://www.convictcentral.com/index.html > regards, > Deb. > -----Original Message----- > From: [9]john.mail@ozemail.com.au > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 6:44 PM > To: [10]aus-nsw-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [HV] Thunderbolts middle name > Hi Richard, > If you check BDM online he doesn't appear to have been a registered > birth(?). > Even the cold hard facts of the governor general's last Sunday lunch > are > quickly lost if the guv'mint or someone aren't doing their job. > Perhaps they had a budget cut the year Thunderbolt was born and decided > only > to register two out of every five births at Wilberforce. > I'm particularly interested in just how gaps in records came about. > Or in any published studies on such. > For convict records there's been a few studies, apparently, of how > records > came to get lost, or wilfully destroyed. > But what happened to those studies? Perhaps they got lost too? > I suspect it is all very complicated ... if only we knew. > Cheers, > John > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... Thank you! > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [11]AUS-NSW-HUNTER-VALLEY-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ) > > References > > 1. > https://mail.iinet.net.au/mail/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bdm.nsw.gov.au%2FfamilyHistory%2Fthunderbolt.htm > 2. http://mc2.vicnet.net.au/home/pmackett/nswsmith.html > 3. file://localhost/tmp/ > parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bdm.nsw.gov.au%2FfamilyHistory%2Fthunderbolt.htm<http://parse.pl/?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bdm.nsw.gov.au%2FfamilyHistory%2Fthunderbolt.htm> > 4. file://localhost/tmp/ > parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bdm.nsw.gov.au%2FfamilyHistory%2FhistoryofRegistrysRec.htm<http://parse.pl/?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bdm.nsw.gov.au%2FfamilyHistory%2FhistoryofRegistrysRec.htm> > 5. file://localhost/tmp/ > parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Ftinyurl.com%2F4fe7ewm<http://parse.pl/?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Ftinyurl.com%2F4fe7ewm> > 6. file://localhost/tmp/ > parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Ftinyurl.com%2F4do9usx<http://parse.pl/?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Ftinyurl.com%2F4do9usx> > 7. file://localhost/tmp/ > parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Ftinyurl.com%2F4cuv9h5<http://parse.pl/?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Ftinyurl.com%2F4cuv9h5> > 8. file://localhost/tmp/ > parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.convictcentral.com%2Findex.html<http://parse.pl/?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.convictcentral.com%2Findex.html> > 9. javascript:top.opencompose('john.mail@ozemail.com.au','','','') > 10. javascript:top.opencompose('aus-nsw-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com > ','','','') > 11. javascript:top.opencompose(' > AUS-NSW-HUNTER-VALLEY-request@rootsweb.com','','','') > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... Thank you! > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-NSW-HUNTER-VALLEY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >