Hello Ken and John. I am only loosely following this interesting discussion; and thank each of the participants for it. This posting is to pick up on the issue of who his father might have been. IF Thunderbolt / Fred WARD does have KNOWN direct MALE descendants only in the male line --- such as a son, grandson, great-grandson, great, great grandson; etc. --- then any one or more of them can these days have a DNA test done. The results of this blood test can then be compared with the results of similar tests done world-wide to show (sometimes with great exactitude) which other families have the same "results". In this way, the identity of his father MIGHT be ascertained more precisely, to either confirm or deny the hypothesis below. Rootsweb has a special DNA list, for anyone interested in this. Sorry, no time right now to post the link to it. HTH: ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth EDWARDS" <tenedw2@hotmail.com> > > John wrote.. > " It might be because his mother, who is held to have been Sarah Ward > the daughter of Michael Ward, convict" > I do not agree with this "recent" theory, the basis for which was > originally the age of Sarah's Mother..It was implied that at age 47, > Sophia was too old to have a child !.. so naturally he had to be Sarah's > boy...Recently further weight was given to the argument with the discovery > of Sarah's application to marry a prisoner named John HASWELL in August > 1832..Calculations based on data from certificates put Fred's birth year > around 1833 making the prisoner a likely candidate.HASWELL'S application > was refused, but what is overlooked is that in Sep 1833 a 17 year old > Sarah Anne WARD of Windsor was granted permission to marry another > prisoner named Morgan CARROLL.Whether or not that person was our Sarah > remains to be seen.. regardless, she did end up marrying John GARBUTT on > the 7th December 1835.According to prison records Fred was born in either > 1835 or 1836 in which case John Garbutt may well be Fred's Father !In > reality, the only person with the correct answer is his Mother! .. be it > Sarah or Sophia ! > Ken