John wrote.. " It might be because his mother, who is held to have been Sarah Ward the daughter of Michael Ward, convict" I do not agree with this "recent" theory, the basis for which was originally the age of Sarah's Mother..It was implied that at age 47, Sophia was too old to have a child !.. so naturally he had to be Sarah's boy...Recently further weight was given to the argument with the discovery of Sarah's application to marry a prisoner named John HASWELL in August 1832..Calculations based on data from certificates put Fred's birth year around 1833 making the prisoner a likely candidate.HASWELL'S application was refused, but what is overlooked is that in Sep 1833 a 17 year old Sarah Anne WARD of Windsor was granted permission to marry another prisoner named Morgan CARROLL.Whether or not that person was our Sarah remains to be seen.. regardless, she did end up marrying John GARBUTT on the 7th December 1835.According to prison records Fred was born in either 1835 or 1836 in which case John Garbutt may well be Fred's Father !In reality, the only person with the correct answer is his Mother.. be it Sarah or Sophia ! Ken

Hi all. In 1870, Fred's brother Joshua also named his child Frederick Wordsworth (Wedsworth !).. its also interesting to note that some of the other children had names of uncles and grandparents....eg.. William Thompson in 1870, Handley T in 1862 and Sophia J.E.A in 1875.I would be interested to see the birth certificates for Marina E (1861) and Frederick W (1868).. just to satisfy my curiosity about the fathers middle name.Even if it was proven that his name was Wordsworth, it would only be one of a number of claims that are in dispute... was the person who died in 1867 Mary Ann BUGG, or was it, as the papers claim, his Mistress Louisa MASON ?. strong evidence suggests that Mary went on to die as Mrs BURROWS in 1905 ! Ken.

Thanks Ken, I had just read a bit here, a bit there, didn't know which was right. If Fred was born in 1833, say, maybe his father was Carroll .. but whatever when wrong there, when Sarah moved to John Garbutt (in 1835/36) perhaps Garbutt didn't want the boy so he was left with Sarah's parents and that way he assumed the name Ward ? Could that be likely? Cheers, John On Thu Mar 24 21:28 , Kenneth EDWARDS sent: John wrote.. " It might be because his mother, who is held to have been Sarah Ward the daughter of Michael Ward, convict" I do not agree with this "recent" theory, the basis for which was originally the age of Sarah's Mother..It was implied that at age 47, Sophia was too old to have a child !.. so naturally he had to be Sarah's boy...Recently further weight was given to the argument with the discovery of Sarah's application to marry a prisoner named John HASWELL in August 1832..Calculations based on data from certificates put Fred's birth year around 1833 making the prisoner a likely candidate.HASWELL'S application was refused, but what is overlooked is that in Sep 1833 a 17 year old Sarah Anne WARD of Windsor was granted permission to marry another prisoner named Morgan CARROLL.Whether or not that person was our Sarah remains to be seen.. regardless, she did end up marrying John GARBUTT on the 7th December 1835.According to prison records Fred was born in either 1835 or 1836 in which case John Garbutt may well be Fred's Father !In reality, the only person with the correct answer is his Mother! .. be it Sarah or Sophia ! Ken Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [1]AUS-NSW-HUNTER-VALLEY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ) References 1. javascript:top.opencompose('AUS-NSW-HUNTER-VALLEY-request@rootsweb.com','','','')

Hi John and listers I just checked the old Pioneer series of CDs (limiting my search to 1868) for comparison with the online version and got exactly the same info plus denomination Wesleyan Methodist and Registration Year 1868, Registration No. 0. Judy > > However, if instead you just search ALL Frederick Ward births .... > over > entire search span, it does pop up then" > """" > > V18681400 161/1868 WARD FREDERICK W FREDERICK W MARY A > > """" > That's apparently it ... Frederick Wordsworth Ward, born to Mary Ann > Bugg. > Yet search for all Ward births in year 1868 and you will not find it !!! > Why is that? There seems to be some funny things about the system? > Does that registration say who the informant was ... etc. > Maybe the most recent author has considered all these things. > Cheers, > John >>

Thanks Ken, That explains the curious "Wedsworth" record. Cheers, John (Sydney) On Thu Mar 24 20:16 , Kenneth EDWARDS sent: Hi all. In 1870, Fred's brother Joshua also named his child Frederick Wordsworth (Wedsworth !).. its also interesting to note that some of the other children had names of uncles and grandparents....eg.. William Thompson in 1870, Handley T in 1862 and Sophia J.E.A in 1875.I would be interested to see the birth certificates for Marina E (1861) and Frederick W (1868).. just to satisfy my curiosity about the fathers middle name.Even if it was proven that his name was Wordsworth, it would only be one of a number of claims that are in dispute... was the person who died in 1867 Mary Ann BUGG, or was it, as the papers claim, his Mistress Louisa MASON ?. strong evidence suggests that Mary went on to die as Mrs BURROWS in 1905 ! Ken.

Thanks Judy, I'm getting more interested ..... I wonder then if the Wards were Wesleyan ... my ancestors (English/Irish) are Wesley Methodist too ( ... when they weren't later on being Salvation Army). And set onto Fred's trail at Narran Lake was none other that black tracker Constable Byrne. Just a coincidence .. the Byrne's too are very Irish (.... when not being Scottish). Now I was told by someone else (Bob) that you must not speak ill of Frederick Wordsworth Ward .. because half of Gosford is related to him, and they might come looking for you(?). But none of this so far has helped us know why his middle name was Wordsworth. It might be because his mother, who is held to have been Sarah Ward the daughter of Michael Ward, convict (note unmarried which is perhaps why the birth was not registered ... but that could be for many reasons - as already noted) was of a family who admired Wordsworth the poet ?? Michael Ward (Michael Handley Thompson Ward) was sent to Australia for stealing one gallon and a half of rectified spirits plus one gallon and a pint of rum. Ward, aged 26 was sentenced to death for this; then reprieved to transportation. Ward sailed aboard the convict ship, the "Indefatigable" in May 1815. Two months later his 23 year old wife, Sophia followed him aboard the "Northampton" from Liverpool as a free person. If BDM is searched for Sophia Ward mother you find she gave birth to a daughter Esther : V1826898 20/1826 WARD ESTHER MICHAEL SOPHIA J May have been earlier children and they didn't register them .... and the 1828 census has Michael a labourer with a small farm at Wilberforce; children Sarah 12, Emily 8, Joshua 6, George 4, Hester 2 (= the 'Esther'), and Selina one month. Thus Fred was born after 1826. Some think he was born 1833 (Sarah then 19). Some write that Fred was born in a slab hut at Freeman's Reach, opposite Gardiner's Hotel (wherever that was exactly) - Freeman's reach is just upstream of Wilberforce. Uralla history ( [1]http://www.uralla.biz/history/details.php?who=8 ) has the Fred Jr details as: "Mid 1867 - Frederick Wordsworth Ward (Jnr) born - baptised Wesleyan - Methodist Tamworth Distict Circuit. Birth Reg in 1868. Birth probably contributed to Mary Ann's death." Note also " March 1866 - Mary Ann Ward born Mallaley" presumably another of Mary Ann's ("Mrs Thunderbolt's") children Cheers, John On Thu Mar 24 17:58 , sent: Hi John and listers I just checked the old Pioneer series of CDs (limiting my search to 1868) for comparison with the online version and got exactly the same info plus denomination Wesleyan Methodist and Registration Year 1868, Registration No. 0. Judy > > However, if instead you just search ALL Frederick Ward births .... > over > entire search span, it does pop up then" > """" > > V18681400 161/1868 WARD FREDERICK W FREDERICK W MARY A > > """" > That's apparently it ... Frederick Wordsworth Ward, born to Mary Ann > Bugg. > Yet search for all Ward births in year 1868 and you will not find it !!! > Why is that? There seems to be some funny things about the system? > Does that registration say who the informant was ... etc. > Maybe the most recent author has considered all these things. > Cheers, > John >> References 1. http://www.uralla.biz/history/details.php?who=8

Hi Richard, Yes I would be interested in any/all of that too. As I think I sent to the list ... (?).... Fred Ward is a non-exist on BDM. But try searching for Thunderbolt surname. You'll find they exist. They lived and died at Angledool area .. north of Narran Lake, Culgoa River area, back of Bourke. So I was wondering what does all that mean. I just got sent some great detail for this area, by a list member. Cheers, John ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ At 09:51 PM 23/03/2011 -0700, you wrote: >Hello > >Not sure if this message has been posted as I had a failure notice. > >On the subject of rewriting history, I've been looking for something I read, I >think it was by Errol Lea-Scarlett, arguing that the 1870 destruction of convict >records was due to the hated stain and the desire of a prosperous new middle >class to erase our convict origins.  Views of Thunderbolt's career could be seen >in the same way, in the sense that if he escaped and it was covered up >by police history has been rewritten to suit a prevailing mindset.  This has >been the thesis of recent books on the subject.  And if so then just maybe the >truth could be sought out.. > >Regards  > >Richard    > > > > > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... Thank you! > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-NSW-HUNTER-VALLEY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Some of my ancestors were around that area,Angledool... PAGE, COLLINS, COVENEY.. Jenelle. -----Original Message----- From: aus-nsw-hunter-valley-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-nsw-hunter-valley-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Sent: Thursday, 24 March 2011 5:52 PM To: aus-nsw-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HV] Thunderbolts middle name Hi Richard, Yes I would be interested in any/all of that too. As I think I sent to the list ... (?).... Fred Ward is a non-exist on BDM. But try searching for Thunderbolt surname. You'll find they exist. They lived and died at Angledool area .. north of Narran Lake, Culgoa River area, back of Bourke. So I was wondering what does all that mean. I just got sent some great detail for this area, by a list member. Cheers, John ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ At 09:51 PM 23/03/2011 -0700, you wrote: >Hello > >Not sure if this message has been posted as I had a failure notice. > >On the subject of rewriting history, I've been looking for something I read, I >think it was by Errol Lea-Scarlett, arguing that the 1870 destruction of convict >records was due to the hated stain and the desire of a prosperous new middle >class to erase our convict origins.  Views of Thunderbolt's career could be seen >in the same way, in the sense that if he escaped and it was covered up >by police history has been rewritten to suit a prevailing mindset.  This has >been the thesis of recent books on the subject.  And if so then just maybe the >truth could be sought out.. > >Regards  > >Richard    > > > > > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... Thank you! > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-NSW-HUNTER-VALLEY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-NSW-HUNTER-VALLEY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1498/3525 - Release Date: 03/23/11

PS: Re Frederick Wordsworth Ward Jr born somewhere around Tamworth and registered after Mary Ann's death ... I first searched to 1870 and failed to find it. I then increased search range to 1890 ... and still failed to find it. (Although there is a curious "Frederick Wedsworth Ward" birth registered: ...) """"" 12476/1870 WARD FREDERICK WEDSWORTH JOSHUA M SARAH MAITLAND """"" However, if instead you just search ALL Frederick Ward births .... over entire search span, it does pop up then" """" V18681400 161/1868 WARD FREDERICK W FREDERICK W MARY A """" That's apparently it ... Frederick Wordsworth Ward, born to Mary Ann Bugg. Yet search for all Ward births in year 1868 and you will not find it !!! Why is that? There seems to be some funny things about the system? Does that registration say who the informant was ... etc. Maybe the most recent author has considered all these things. Cheers, John in was registered in the 'Tamworth Circuit' after her death in early 1868 On Thu Mar 24 17:00 , 'john.mail@ozemail.com.au' sent: Hello Jenelle, In contrast to the version that they went to the Culgoa after breakout from Cockatoo Island (which is with the URL sent here recently re the BDM article that contains photo of the Thunderbolt's death certificate) there's accounts of Fred or Mrs Thunderbolt, Mary Ann Bugg, which don't have them going to the Culgoa at all - Far from going direct to Bourke thence on up the Culgoa one says "On one occasion they even rode as far west as Bourke. During this time, Ward and Mary Ann Bugg managed to have four children" - as if they only got to Bourke later on? But if you check online BDM you'll find "Thuderbolts" around Angledool. I'm certainly not sure what it all means. Also there was supposedly a child registered of the`very same name ("Frederick Wordsworth Ward") .. one of their children ["she had a fourth child not long before her death, as a son Frederick Wordsworth Ward was registered in the 'Tamworth Circuit' after her death in early 1868 to Frederick & Mary Ann Ward. This birth may have contributed to her death"], but if so where is that in the online BDM records. Seems very puzzling stuff one way or another? Cheers, John ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On Thu Mar 24 16:40 , 'Jenelle Mccarrick' sent: Some of my ancestors were around that area,Angledool... PAGE, COLLINS, COVENEY.. Jenelle. -----Original Message----- From: [1][1]aus-nsw-hunter-valley-bounces@rootsweb.com [[2][2]aus-nsw-hunter-valley-bounces@rootsweb.com','','','')">[3]aus-nsw-h unt [3]er-valley-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Sent: Thursday, 24 March 2011 5:52 PM To: [4][4]aus-nsw-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HV] Thunderbolts middle name Hi Richard, Yes I would be interested in any/all of that too. As I think I sent to the list ... (?).... Fred Ward is a non-exist on BDM. But try searching for Thunderbolt surname. You'll find they exist. They lived and died at Angledool area .. north of Narran Lake, Culgoa River area, back of Bourke. So I was wondering what does all that mean. I just got sent some great detail for this area, by a list member. Cheers, John ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ At 09:51 PM 23/03/2011 -0700, you wrote: >Hello > >Not sure if this message has been posted as I had a failure notice. > >On the subject of rewriting history, I've been looking for something I read, I >think it was by Errol Lea-Scarlett, arguing that the 1870 destruction of convict >records was due to the hated stain and the desire of a prosperous new middle >class to erase our convict origins. Views of Thunderbolt's career could be seen >in the same way, in the sense that if he escaped and it was covered up >by police history has been rewritten to suit a prevailing mindset. This has >been the thesis of recent books on the subject. And if so then just maybe the >truth could be sought out.. > >Regards > >Richard > > > > > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... Thank you! References 1. javascript:top.opencompose('aus-nsw-hunter-valley-bounces@rootsweb.com','','','') 2. javascript:top.opencompose('aus-nsw-hunter-valley-bounces@rootsweb.com','','','') 3. javascript:top.opencompose('er-valley-bounces@rootsweb.com','','','') 4. javascript:top.opencompose('aus-nsw-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com','','','')

Hello Jenelle, In contrast to the version that they went to the Culgoa after breakout from Cockatoo Island (which is with the URL sent here recently re the BDM article that contains photo of the Thunderbolt's death certificate) there's accounts of Fred or Mrs Thunderbolt, Mary Ann Bugg, which don't have them going to the Culgoa at all - Far from going direct to Bourke thence on up the Culgoa one says "On one occasion they even rode as far west as Bourke. During this time, Ward and Mary Ann Bugg managed to have four children" - as if they only got to Bourke later on? But if you check online BDM you'll find "Thuderbolts" around Angledool. I'm certainly not sure what it all means. Also there was supposedly a child registered of the`very same name ("Frederick Wordsworth Ward") .. one of their children ["she had a fourth child not long before her death, as a son Frederick Wordsworth Ward was registered in the 'Tamworth Circuit' after her death in early 1868 to Frederick & Mary Ann Ward. This birth may have contributed to her death"], but if so where is that in the online BDM records. Seems very puzzling stuff one way or another? Cheers, John ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On Thu Mar 24 16:40 , 'Jenelle Mccarrick' sent: Some of my ancestors were around that area,Angledool... PAGE, COLLINS, COVENEY.. Jenelle. -----Original Message----- From: [1]aus-nsw-hunter-valley-bounces@rootsweb.com [[2]aus-nsw-hunter-valley-bounces@rootsweb.com','','','')">[3]aus-nsw-hunt er-valley-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Sent: Thursday, 24 March 2011 5:52 PM To: [4]aus-nsw-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HV] Thunderbolts middle name Hi Richard, Yes I would be interested in any/all of that too. As I think I sent to the list ... (?).... Fred Ward is a non-exist on BDM. But try searching for Thunderbolt surname. You'll find they exist. They lived and died at Angledool area .. north of Narran Lake, Culgoa River area, back of Bourke. So I was wondering what does all that mean. I just got sent some great detail for this area, by a list member. Cheers, John ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ At 09:51 PM 23/03/2011 -0700, you wrote: >Hello > >Not sure if this message has been posted as I had a failure notice. > >On the subject of rewriting history, I've been looking for something I read, I >think it was by Errol Lea-Scarlett, arguing that the 1870 destruction of convict >records was due to the hated stain and the desire of a prosperous new middle >class to erase our convict origins. Views of Thunderbolt's career could be seen >in the same way, in the sense that if he escaped and it was covered up >by police history has been rewritten to suit a prevailing mindset. This has >been the thesis of recent books on the subject. And if so then just maybe the >truth could be sought out.. > >Regards > >Richard > > > > > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... Thank you! > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [5]AUS-NSW-HUNTER-VALLEY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [6]AUS-NSW-HUNTER-VALLEY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - [7]www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1498/3525 - Release Date: 03/23/11 Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [8]AUS-NSW-HUNTER-VALLEY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ) References 1. javascript:top.opencompose('aus-nsw-hunter-valley-bounces@rootsweb.com','','','') 2. javascript:top.opencompose('<a href= 3. javascript:top.opencompose('aus-nsw-hunter-valley-bounces@rootsweb.com','','','') 4. javascript:top.opencompose('aus-nsw-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com','','','') 5. javascript:top.opencompose('AUS-NSW-HUNTER-VALLEY-request@rootsweb.com','','','') 6. javascript:top.opencompose('AUS-NSW-HUNTER-VALLEY-request@rootsweb.com','','','') 7. file://localhost/tmp/parse.pl?redirect=http://www.avg.com 8. javascript:top.opencompose('AUS-NSW-HUNTER-VALLEY-request@rootsweb.com','','','')

There has been a lot of discussion on Captain Thunderbolt. Carol Baxter is going to publish a book on Thunderbolt in September 2011. See details on her web page: http://www.carolbaxter.com/ Jean Pritchard

Hi Listers This is a very long shot indeed, but nothing ventured is nothing gained, and there are usually some historical buffs about who have a good handle on old Maitland History. I am trying to find if there is any old images of High Street about the era of 1850s to 1880 or so, that shows the corner of High Street and Devonshire Street. The reason for this, is that I would like to find an old image of what "The Australian" Hotel looked like, which originally stood on either the east or west corner (not sure which), of Devonshire and High Street. If anyone comes up with something then my email address is below. Thankyou Margaret ************************* Margaret Bauer Qld, Australia bauerm@tpg.com.au *************************

Hello Not sure if this message has been posted as I had a failure notice. On the subject of rewriting history, I've been looking for something I read, I think it was by Errol Lea-Scarlett, arguing that the 1870 destruction of convict records was due to the hated stain and the desire of a prosperous new middle class to erase our convict origins.  Views of Thunderbolt's career could be seen in the same way, in the sense that if he escaped and it was covered up by police history has been rewritten to suit a prevailing mindset.  This has been the thesis of recent books on the subject.  And if so then just maybe the truth could be sought out.. Regards  Richard   

John- Your mention of the Culgoa and Thunderbolt reminded me of the meeting of one of my ancestors, William Beaumont, who was a station owner in the area. The details were obtained from one of the volumes of the History of Bourke. "In the mid to late 1860s, the North-West of New South Wales encountered an upsurge of bushrangers operating in the area. It seems from the press of the day, William Beaumont had first hand experience with the problem. There follows two accounts of an incident involving William and "Captain Thunderbolt". >From the "P.G." 19 April 65 - "On the 26th ultimo, Messrs Bowman (prob. Beaumont - W.J.C.) and Little's station, Bourke District, was robbed by four armed offenders, viz Frederick Ward, alias Captain Thunderbolt, William Mackay, and two others not described, of the undermentioned property: 4 saddles, 6 saddle straps, 1 bridle, pair of saddle bags, 2 double-barrelled guns, 3 red blankets, 5 pairs trousers, 2 pairs Wellington boots, 2 Tweed coats, 3 water cans, and 5 boxes of percussion caps; also a bay mare. Sergeant Cleary, Constable Byrne, and a black tracker, traced the offenders to Narran Lake, about two hundred miles from Bourke, and succeeded in finding Ward's camp in a dense scrub, about a quarter of a mile from the lake. Ward's half-cast woman and two children were found in the camp, also, the whole of the stolen property described, and 4 horses (see Horses and Cattle). The woman was arrested by Sergeant Cleary for having stolen property in her possession." (Beaumont and Little had "Towby" Run at the time; the holding may have been "Toulby" - W.J.C.).4 >From the "Empire" 2 May 1865 - *April 20 - Bushranging* *in* *the* *Far North-West* - On the 26th of last month the station of Macleay, Little and Co. on the Culgoa, about 100 miles from Bourke was stuck up by four armed men. There were about five or six men on the station and Mr Beaumont, one of the firm, was disposed to show fight, but there was no disposition among the others to help, so he was obliged to yield. They took what firearms and ammunition was to be had, and loaded two pack horses with shops and station stores, and took their departure. A special meesenger was despatched to Bourke, which place he reached on Monday evening. Next morning sergeant Cleary and constable Byrne, with the messenger, started for the station, which they reached in the evening of the Wednesday. They took their tracker with them, who happily belongs to the neighbourhood where the affair took place. On the following morning, that is on Thursday, having got fresh horses, they started, accompanied by Mr Beaumont and another black. In order that your readers may understand the difficulties of this pursuit, I may observe that the bushrangers had four days start of the police. They took up their tracks up the Brie and across the country to the Bokarra, from thence to the Narran. The bushrangers had fired the grass for some eighteen miles, to obliterate their tracks. On the second night the police came to where it is thought the bushrangers had camped on Sunday night, the fire still burning. Here the gentlemen of the road had shot a bullock, and cut what meat they wanted out of the rump of the beast. The police took up the tracks next morning, which led them right into the Narran Lake. A considerable time was spent in looking about for the way they had passed out of the lake, which is about five miles across. At last the tracker found the track of a pickaninny leading up a hill into the scrub, a little after that of a gin, which would appear to be their way to water. Just before this they saw a horse galloping along the edge of the lake. The scrub being very thick, they followed the track up a hill, about three hundred yards from the lake, when, lo, they came upon the camp of the gentry, Mrs. Fredrick Ward, alias Captain Thunderbolt's half-cast gin and pickaninnies were busy plating the stolen property. She recognised sergeant Cleary, and said, "So you are here again, are you, but you're too late, they`re off; we saw you when you came on the lake this morning." They found all the property stolen from the station, less what had been consumed - tea, sugar, flour, tobacco, slops, and three double-barrelled guns, loaded to the muzzle, and two pistols, ammunition, &c. They had to pick up the tracks of the retiring gentlemen, but they could not succeed, as they had taken different ways. They camped on the other side of the lake for the day, and at night they stealthily stole round to the camp, and planted themselves within sight of the camp, nearly the whole night, but without the anticipated reults. I ought to have observed that Mrs. Thunderbolt, who speakes good English gave them a little Billingsgate, and twitted them on their want of success, and was particularly severe on Mr. Beaumont, who, she said, was only showing off at the station when he wanted to show fight. On the morning succeeding their watch of the camp, they packed up the stolen goods and two splendid horses, and a mare and foal, bringing the good lady and young ones with them; however, she got rusty on the way, and threw herself from the horse, and attacked the constable and tore his shirt to ribbons. With her passion she brought on, or feigned to bring on labour, when they were obliged to take her to a station belonging to a worthy named Foster, where they left her. She frequently threatened them with "Fred's" vengeance. The goods were taken to the station of the parties plundered, and the horses brought on to Bourke. As a finale to this paragraph I may observe that in January this worthy, with one mate, stuck up a hawker on the Culgoa, and took a large sum of money and goods from him. It will be remembered, too, for it was recorded in your columns, that on that occasion Sergeant Cleary succeeded in tracking him to his hiding-place, near the notorious Red Town station on the Narran. He there found his lady love and the goods, and a horse with Mr. Moffit's brand on; he very naively said the brand was his, but not the horse. Now, as the captain has got two recruits, his operations will be carried on a more extended scale. Anent this horse, it may not be out of place to say he was drowned a little time ago in the Darling, and there is some reason to believe he was driven into the Darling by some of "Fred's" pals, as we had some bright boys from the neighbourhood in Bourke at the time. It has been said that a gallows is a mark of an advanced state of civilisation, so by a parity of reasoning I would say that the presence of these gentry as bushrangers in this remote and hitherto but little known portion of her Majesty's dominions, might be taken as evidence of a like state." Shortly after these events, Thunderbolt seems to have operated in the Cookeran (Corcoran) Lake area, and Mogil Mogil, Gunderbluie and Colarindabry ("Empire" and "Armidale Express") and then in the Tamworth and Taree areas. Early in 1865 there was an outbreak of bushranging south-east of Walgett." David Fitzsimmons

No worries, Bruce. Deb -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Fairhall Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 3:01 PM To: aus-nsw-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HV] Records in colony / Thunderbolts birth reg'n & death cert Thank you, Deb <snipped>

Hi John, Nor am I, but I guess the mystery/disputes (there always seems to be some) re bushrangers gets people's attention... including mine when discussions pop up :o) Deb. -----Original Message----- From: john.mail@ozemail.com.au Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:12 PM To: aus-nsw-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HV] Records in colony / Thunderbolts birth reg'n & death cert... and his middle name as was also asked about ... and "onthe Culgoa"? Thanks Deb, I'm not a Thunderbolt researcher but curious to see what others make of it. <snipped>

Thanks Deb, I'm not a Thunderbolt researcher but curious to see what others make of it. Late now so I'll look into all the URLs you sent later .. thanks. Re the material ..... """"""""" Frederick Ward was born in 1835 in Wilberforce, near Windsor, though there is no official record of his birth. He worked as a drover and horsebreaker at Tocal Station on the Paterson River until his arrest in 1856 for receiving seventy-five stolen horses. He was sentenced to ten years hard labour. He was released in 1860, but he returned to Cockatoo Island to complete his sentence after being tried for horse stealing. Ward escaped in 1863 with the help of his wife, Mary Ann. They lived on the Culgoa River near Bourke until Ward adopted the name 'Captain Thunderbolt in 1865. With associates, Ward carried out armed robberies near Bourke, Moree and Gunnedah. Alone and with a reward of 200 pounds on his head, Ward held up a mailman in 1867 and was almost captured while drunk near Manilla. In November that year his wife died of pneumonuia. Ward then worked with William Monckton, a 13 year old runaway, until October 1868. On 25 May, 1870 Ward was surprised while testing a horse, chased and shot by Constable Alexander Binney Walker at Kentucky Creek near Uralla. A Protestant, he was buried in Uralla cemetery without religious rites. Ward's career as a professional bushranger is attributed to his horsemanship, choice of horse, never taking on armed guards or police and popular sympathy due to his gentlemanly behaviour. [1]http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/thunderbolt.htm """"""""" ...... it is not stated where this comes from. It is however all stuff you can find in one or more of the various Thunderbolt accounts around. So, Mary swam the water with breakout tools and they broke out and bolted for the Culgoa ..... Back o' Bourke. To get far away from Sydney and any authorities the Culgoa would be fine. To go up the Culgoa, go to Bourke then head up the Darling and just keep going (don't veer right in to the Barwon). Places on/near the Culgoa are Goodooga and Weilmoringle. [Goodooga is actually on the Bokhara River, a parallle 'splay' to the Culgoa.] Goodooga is supposedly an Aboriginal word meaning "Yam". Mrs Thunderbolt being Aboriginal would know how to harvest/cook yams? Goodooga in fact is made up largely of indigenous Australians. It does sound an apt place to be legendary hideout of Captain Thunderbolt and his ?small ?band. Anyone who really wants to know what they think of Thunderbolt going to there, in Goodooga can check with Tiger Cochrane who seems to be a willing the contact on the village website (phone 0268296008). "It's is also believed that that large amounts of opal and gold are situated under and around Goodooga" - I know that as I'm a geologist, yet despite those claims of large amounts of gold and opals there none of the mineral explorers of modern times has found it. Here's who's-who at Goodooga = [2]http://mc2.vicnet.net.au/home/pmackett/nswsmith.html Goodooga had a population of 29 in 1994. The other centre along the Culgoa is Weilmoringle. It only has a handful of houses. In "New South Wales Aboriginal Deaths 1839-1945" you'll find that death 8046/1926 is "Thunderbolt", a 71 year old Aborigine who died at New Angledool (same region of NSW). Now 71 from 1926 means 1855 .... and this person whoever it was would have been aged 10 around the time when it is thought Ward on/near the Culgoa assumed the name Thunderbolt. Also, Kitty Thunderbolt died at New Angledool in 1916 (aged 67). And Jack Thunderbolt died at New Angledool in 1917. Any connection? It was an early habit of some Aborigines to 'exchange' names, including with Europeans. Or could the Wards have taken up an existing name at the Culgoa region for some reason. Or is this all just a meaningless coincidence? Cheers, John On Tue Mar 22 14:37 , 'Deb' sent: Hi John & listers, Firstly, regarding Frederick Ward (Thunderbolt), no record of his birth has been found, even according to the registry itself. See [3]http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/thunderbolt.htm which also shows his death certificate (cert.copy). I don't know if it is true but I have read Thunderbolt was a Protestant and could have been born illegitimately. At the time of his birth (which ever date you agree with) you are actually talking about a record of baptism not a "registration" even though they appear as registrations in the registry's records. If a child was not baptised they may not have been recorded at all. Illegitimacy may be one reason, distance/remoteness another, remembering there wasn't a church for every denomination in every area at all times and just because the few Ministers travelled around doesn't mean they had contact with everyone or recorded events at the actual time they occurred, I would imagine. I remember reading somewhere that some, so attached to their own faith, refused to use a C of E minister and preferred to go without any marriage/baptism ceremony in the absence of their own. In 1810 the Governor had ordered Chaplains to keep registers of all births and deaths in their parish/district. I don't for one minute believe these were all accurate... and whilst C of E ministers were required to record & pass on registers to the government, other denominations were not required to until later years - see chart on guide 4 (these time gaps increase the likelihood of lost or inaccurate records in my opinion). I don't know anything about actual "gaps" in the records but living in the harsh environment of the colony (incl flood/fire), anything could happen to parish registers. Even in "civilised" England parish records have sometimes been lost/destroyed in full or part. In the guide 4 mentioned below you can look at the break down at "Detailed list of registers". Hopefully the following links & reading between the lines will give you an idea of why some births may not have been "registered". It pays to look for the background of records on the websites where you access them. I'm all for studies but you don't need a study to see that the record keeping was far from perfect in the colony. I think it was a miracle some births were recorded at all! History of the registry's records [4]http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/historyofRegistrysRec.htm The 1810 order (partial quote) on the baptism page (SRNSW) [5]http://tinyurl.com/4fe7ewm Short Guide 4 - Attorney General and Justice: Registers of births, deaths and marriages (SRNSW) [6]http://tinyurl.com/4do9usx You may be interested in this page on lost & saved convict records which includes some census discussion (SRNSW). [7]http://tinyurl.com/4cuv9h5 Regarding census/musters, are you aware of the following page? It is fantastic to refer to. [8]http://www.convictcentral.com/index.html regards, Deb. -----Original Message----- From: [9]john.mail@ozemail.com.au Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 6:44 PM To: [10]aus-nsw-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HV] Thunderbolts middle name Hi Richard, If you check BDM online he doesn't appear to have been a registered birth(?). Even the cold hard facts of the governor general's last Sunday lunch are quickly lost if the guv'mint or someone aren't doing their job. Perhaps they had a budget cut the year Thunderbolt was born and decided only to register two out of every five births at Wilberforce. I'm particularly interested in just how gaps in records came about. Or in any published studies on such. For convict records there's been a few studies, apparently, of how records came to get lost, or wilfully destroyed. But what happened to those studies? Perhaps they got lost too? I suspect it is all very complicated ... if only we knew. Cheers, John Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [11]AUS-NSW-HUNTER-VALLEY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ) References 1. https://mail.iinet.net.au/mail/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bdm.nsw.gov.au%2FfamilyHistory%2Fthunderbolt.htm 2. http://mc2.vicnet.net.au/home/pmackett/nswsmith.html 3. file://localhost/tmp/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bdm.nsw.gov.au%2FfamilyHistory%2Fthunderbolt.htm 4. file://localhost/tmp/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bdm.nsw.gov.au%2FfamilyHistory%2FhistoryofRegistrysRec.htm 5. file://localhost/tmp/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Ftinyurl.com%2F4fe7ewm 6. file://localhost/tmp/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Ftinyurl.com%2F4do9usx 7. file://localhost/tmp/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Ftinyurl.com%2F4cuv9h5 8. file://localhost/tmp/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.convictcentral.com%2Findex.html 9. javascript:top.opencompose('john.mail@ozemail.com.au','','','') 10. javascript:top.opencompose('aus-nsw-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com','','','') 11. javascript:top.opencompose('AUS-NSW-HUNTER-VALLEY-request@rootsweb.com','','','')

Thank you, Deb, for taking the time to collect all this, for the details and the sources. Although the question was about Frederick Ward, your explanation itself becomes a valuable general reference for all of us researching New South Wales BD&Ms. Much appreciated! Bruce Fairhall *EMAIL:* bruce@fairhall.id.au *HOME PAGE:* www.fairhall.id.au On 22/03/2011 5:37 PM, Deb wrote: > Hi John& listers, > > Firstly, regarding Frederick Ward (Thunderbolt), no record of his birth has > been found, even according to the registry itself. See > http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/thunderbolt.htm which also shows his > death certificate (cert.copy). <SNIP>

Hi John & listers, Firstly, regarding Frederick Ward (Thunderbolt), no record of his birth has been found, even according to the registry itself. See http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/thunderbolt.htm which also shows his death certificate (cert.copy). I don't know if it is true but I have read Thunderbolt was a Protestant and could have been born illegitimately. At the time of his birth (which ever date you agree with) you are actually talking about a record of baptism not a "registration" even though they appear as registrations in the registry's records. If a child was not baptised they may not have been recorded at all. Illegitimacy may be one reason, distance/remoteness another, remembering there wasn't a church for every denomination in every area at all times and just because the few Ministers travelled around doesn't mean they had contact with everyone or recorded events at the actual time they occurred, I would imagine. I remember reading somewhere that some, so attached to their own faith, refused to use a C of E minister and preferred to go without any marriage/baptism ceremony in the absence of their own. In 1810 the Governor had ordered Chaplains to keep registers of all births and deaths in their parish/district. I don't for one minute believe these were all accurate... and whilst C of E ministers were required to record & pass on registers to the government, other denominations were not required to until later years - see chart on guide 4 (these time gaps increase the likelihood of lost or inaccurate records in my opinion). I don't know anything about actual "gaps" in the records but living in the harsh environment of the colony (incl flood/fire), anything could happen to parish registers. Even in "civilised" England parish records have sometimes been lost/destroyed in full or part. In the guide 4 mentioned below you can look at the break down at "Detailed list of registers". Hopefully the following links & reading between the lines will give you an idea of why some births may not have been "registered". It pays to look for the background of records on the websites where you access them. I'm all for studies but you don't need a study to see that the record keeping was far from perfect in the colony. I think it was a miracle some births were recorded at all! History of the registry's records http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/historyofRegistrysRec.htm The 1810 order (partial quote) on the baptism page (SRNSW) http://tinyurl.com/4fe7ewm Short Guide 4 - Attorney General and Justice: Registers of births, deaths and marriages (SRNSW) http://tinyurl.com/4do9usx You may be interested in this page on lost & saved convict records which includes some census discussion (SRNSW). http://tinyurl.com/4cuv9h5 Regarding census/musters, are you aware of the following page? It is fantastic to refer to. http://www.convictcentral.com/index.html regards, Deb. -----Original Message----- From: john.mail@ozemail.com.au Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 6:44 PM To: aus-nsw-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HV] Thunderbolts middle name Hi Richard, If you check BDM online he doesn't appear to have been a registered birth(?). Even the cold hard facts of the governor general's last Sunday lunch are quickly lost if the guv'mint or someone aren't doing their job. Perhaps they had a budget cut the year Thunderbolt was born and decided only to register two out of every five births at Wilberforce. I'm particularly interested in just how gaps in records came about. Or in any published studies on such. For convict records there's been a few studies, apparently, of how records came to get lost, or wilfully destroyed. But what happened to those studies? Perhaps they got lost too? I suspect it is all very complicated ... if only we knew. Cheers, John

Hello John and list. John, I don't know of anything academic written about those lost BDM records, but my GUESS is that this will be covered in the home-page to the free online NSW BDM indexes. (no time to look there myself). Here is the link to that home-page: http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/ Regarding the lost NSW State Records material, such as a lot of convict documents, this was written about very recently by Christine YEATES at NSW State Records. It will almost certainly be on their web-site somewhere. Again I don't have time to hunt for it, but here is the URL to their home-page: http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/ HTH: ray ----- Original Message ----- From: <john.mail@ozemail.com.au> ... Perhaps they had a budget cut the year Thunderbolt was born and decided only > to register two out of every five births at Wilberforce. > I'm particularly interested in just how gaps in records came about. > Or in any published studies on such. > For convict records there's been a few studies, apparently, of how > records > came to get lost, or wilfully destroyed. > But what happened to those studies? Perhaps they got lost too? > I suspect it is all very complicated ... if only we knew. > Cheers, > John