Hi Pete.. I have a picture of High St Maitland in the 1893 flood. Water up to first story awnings. In 1955 I was a boarder at St Mary's Dominican Convent just near the Town Hall. We were evacuated and the boarders re-located to Mayfield, San Clemente convent for a few months. I believe a couple of the cows belonging to the school were washed down the Hunter and found swimming off Newcastle. The coal miners were sent to help dig the mud out.The statue of St Dominic in the grounds had moss hanging from his chin like a beard!- I do not know the other dates of floods. Anyone else an old girl from St Mary's? I was there 1953-1956, and my name was Wendy Anderson then. The names I am researching from Maitland are Armson and Atkinson. Wendy Fitzpatrick from Whangaparaoa New Zealand. ---- Original Message ----- From: "Peter.W.Coleman" <pwcoleman@bigpond.com> To: <AUS-NSW-HUNTER-VALLEY@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:59 PM Subject: [HV] Maitland Floods > Hi Forum members, > > Would anyone on the forum have a timeline of > major floods in the Maitland area? > > 1850's-1900 > > > > Thanks > > Pete > > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... Thank you! > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-NSW-HUNTER-VALLEY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Pete. Google found this for me, after quite a few different search strategies. Hope that it helps: http://www.google.com.au/#q=maitland+flood+timeline+-1955&hl=en&biw=1152&bih=673&prmd=ivnso&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=xT2UTcShGoeXceXelPQM&sa=X&oi=timeline_result&ct=title&resnum=11&ved=0CFYQ5wIwCg&fp=541d426e173c24e Also, if you should be in the Hunter Area, I recall seeing a "paper" about the history of floods in Maitland, in the Newcastle Public Library, a few years back; in the same room where the genealogy collection is/was. HTH. Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter.W.Coleman" <pwcoleman@bigpond.com> Would anyone on the forum have a timeline of major floods in the Maitland area? > > 1850's-1900 Pete

Hi Pete, You may or may not be interested in the following. There is a study, HUNTER RIVER: BRANXTON TO GREEN ROCKS FLOOD STUDY, SEP 2010, on the council's website (pdf file) which says the following book on flooding of the Hunter River at Maitland has the most detailed history of flooding at Maitland available. Hunter-Central Rivers Catchment Management Authority Maitland, City on the Hunter River Fighting floods or living with them Chas Keys, November 2008 WorldCat lists copies in a number of libraries in the Hunter region, Sydney, Canberra. http://www.worldcat.org Are you a descendant of John COLEMAN & Ann Maria WENZ? Their son William James married into a branch in my tree. Deb. -----Original Message----- From: Peter.W.Coleman Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:59 PM To: AUS-NSW-HUNTER-VALLEY@rootsweb.com Subject: [HV] Maitland Floods Hi Forum members, Would anyone on the forum have a timeline of major floods in the Maitland area?

Hi Forum members, Would anyone on the forum have a timeline of major floods in the Maitland area? 1850's-1900 Thanks Pete

Ian Wright wrote: > Dear Deb, > I have lived in Newcastle for over 70 years & the present > Sydney Junction Hotel is the only one that I can recall ever being on that > site. Also I have never seen an old photograph or newspaper article re any > other, or any demolition, etc. > I understand that the original hotel was rebuilt in 1941. See the discussion on the NSW archives flickr website where there are pictures or the original hotel (and the railway station) taken in 1906. -- ==== Michael Lightfoot Canberra, Australia michael.lightfoot@pcug.org.au ====

Dear Deb, I have lived in Newcastle for over 70 years & the present Sydney Junction Hotel is the only one that I can recall ever being on that site. Also I have never seen an old photograph or newspaper article re any other, or any demolition, etc. Ian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deb" <oneleaf@bigpond.net.au> To: "AUS-NSW-HUNTER-VALLEY@rootsweb.com" <aus-nsw-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [HV] Sydney Junction Hotel, Hamilton (Newcastle) > Actually, Marg, my original message was quite specific! > > "Wondering if anyone with NEWCASTLE KNOWLEDGE knows what happened... " > > If I had been asking about accessing records I would have said so & may > have > stated my location, but believe everyone has the right to reveal as much > or > as little about themselves online as they want. > > Like Bill, yourself & others, I have spent a lot of time trying to help > people on & offline with queries during the course of research. Sometimes > that time spent has been found to be "wasted" but I never feel hard done > by > because I believe you learn more yourself by helping others, you "give > back", and you just never know when someone's brick wall will come > crashing > down. However, I do apologise to Bill if he does feel put out as it was > not > my intention - he is always a pleasant contributor on list. > > Deb. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Marg M > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 5:14 AM > To: oneleaf@bigpond.net.au > Subject: Re: [HV] Sydney Junction Hotel, Hamilton (Newcastle) > > Hi Deb > > Could help you and other listers if you gave clue to your location > .......... Just > > 'Deb from beautiful downtown where ever ' is sufficient > > I have a few different signatures I use. Am sure Windows live mail would > have a signature facility > > Had Bill a clue to that fact you dont live anywhere near NSW State Records > he probably would have answered your query differently > > Bye > > MargM > Hunter Valley List Admin > > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... Thank you! > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-NSW-HUNTER-VALLEY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Michael, Thanks for that but that is actually my contribution (seen on the archives outside blog link on that flickr page) you are referring to :o) Deb. -----Original Message----- From: Michael Lightfoot Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 9:23 AM To: aus-nsw-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HV] Sydney Junction Hotel, Hamilton (Newcastle) I understand that the original hotel was rebuilt in 1941. See the discussion on the NSW archives flickr website where there are pictures or the original hotel (and the railway station) taken in 1906.

In my work on Molly Morgan I have focused on the early floods-- 1810 onwards. These are fairly well documented, but its rather tiresome to winkle out details. What period are you wanting? Clare Stapleton Madison, Wisconsin: Morris, New York: Sydney, Australia Researching FRAZER, MORGAN, WILSON, CLEGG, MEREDITH, PRIOR, COLLS, VAUGHN, MYERS, SOLOMON, ABBOTT, HOGAN, WOODS

Hi Ian, Thanks for responding. So perhaps it disappeared quite some time before 1941 (newspaper article date)? Where my curiosity started from the following link (I love Archives Outside and have been following it for some time but recently started contributing, it is a great idea by the SRNSW): http://archivesoutside.records.nsw.gov.au/can-you-date-this-photograph-hamilton-railway-station/ This following link leads to SRNSW old photo of Hamilton Railway Station, with the hotel on the left, on Flickr (where best viewed enlarged to original size, & further with [Ctrl] [+] if you have windows 7), of course they are also on SRNSW website). "...Junction Hotel" can be seen on the building. The first photo listed under comments is the clearer version by the photographer Ralph Snowball, date 12 Apr 1906. http://www.flickr.com/photos/state-records-nsw/3064652390/ I think I might email the hotel & see if anyone has any knowledge. MY ORIGINAL MESSAGE as some missed it: (with reference to newspaper article title) "Wondering if anyone with Newcastle knowledge knows what happened to the original Sydney Junction Hotel building on Beaumont Street (opposite the train station) & when? The Newcastle Herald Index includes an article title - "New Sydney Junction Hotel" , 1 Feb 1941, pg 12. .... so obviously before then, unless it was an article about knocking the old one down?" Regards, Deb -----Original Message----- From: Ian Wright Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:08 AM To: aus-nsw-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HV] Sydney Junction Hotel, Hamilton (Newcastle) Dear Deb, I have lived in Newcastle for over 70 years & the present Sydney Junction Hotel is the only one that I can recall ever being on that site. Also I have never seen an old photograph or newspaper article re any other, or any demolition, etc. Ian

Actually, Marg, my original message was quite specific! "Wondering if anyone with NEWCASTLE KNOWLEDGE knows what happened... " If I had been asking about accessing records I would have said so & may have stated my location, but believe everyone has the right to reveal as much or as little about themselves online as they want. Like Bill, yourself & others, I have spent a lot of time trying to help people on & offline with queries during the course of research. Sometimes that time spent has been found to be "wasted" but I never feel hard done by because I believe you learn more yourself by helping others, you "give back", and you just never know when someone's brick wall will come crashing down. However, I do apologise to Bill if he does feel put out as it was not my intention - he is always a pleasant contributor on list. Deb. -----Original Message----- From: Marg M Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 5:14 AM To: oneleaf@bigpond.net.au Subject: Re: [HV] Sydney Junction Hotel, Hamilton (Newcastle) Hi Deb Could help you and other listers if you gave clue to your location .......... Just 'Deb from beautiful downtown where ever ' is sufficient I have a few different signatures I use. Am sure Windows live mail would have a signature facility Had Bill a clue to that fact you dont live anywhere near NSW State Records he probably would have answered your query differently Bye MargM Hunter Valley List Admin

Dear Deb, Looking through the Liquor Licences might also tell you something. I think it would have to be done at State Records, Kingswood. There is an Archives in Brief on Liquor Licences. They are and were renewed annually, and listed in the Government Gazette, as to who held the license for each hotel, or wine bar, by Liquor Licensing District. This one would fairly obviously be within the Newcastle District. >From memory it was about July or August that the big list appeared, and then if the license changed hands during the year, there was another entry. Sincerely, Bill > > The Newcastle Herald Index includes an article title - "New Sydney > Junction > Hotel" , 1 Feb 1941, pg 12. > > .... so obviously before then, unless it was an article about knocking the > old one down? >

Hi Bill, Thanks for responding. I'm aware of the License info at SRNSW however I'm not anywhere close :( . Also, this was just a query hoping there would be someone with knowledge of the area. SRNSW's Archives Outside are currently trying to date a photo of the Hamilton Railway Station (solved now I think). I spotted the old hotel in the background of the photo and as I have some family "twigs" here and there in the area, curiosity got the better of me... as always. I've been looking at TROVE newspapers but haven't found anything close to helping yet. Thanks again, Deb. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 6:24 PM To: aus-nsw-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HV] Sydney Junction Hotel, Hamilton (Newcastle) Dear Deb, Looking through the Liquor Licences might also tell you something. I think it would have to be done at State Records, Kingswood. <snipped>

Hi listers, Wondering if anyone with Newcastle knowledge knows what happened to the original Sydney Junction Hotel building on Beaumont Street (opposite the train station) & when? The Newcastle Herald Index includes an article title - "New Sydney Junction Hotel" , 1 Feb 1941, pg 12. .... so obviously before then, unless it was an article about knocking the old one down? Thanks, Deb.

Hello to those interested in this topic. I attended a book fair today, and for $1 each there were LOTS of copies of a small 162-paged book/booklet titled: "Captain Thunderbolt & Will Monckton: Fact and legend of the bushranger Frederick Ward and his accomplice William Monckton" by B.J. NELSON; published in Brisbane in 2005. The blurb on the back says: "Barry NELSON is the Great grandson of William MONCKTON. He has always had a passion for the Thunderbolt story and has spent many years finding snippets of information that have resulted in the completion of the Book. It has been difficult to wade through the many legends, myths and rumours, endeavouring to keep to the historic facts as much as possible. Barry is retired. He and his wife now enjoy traveling (sic!) whenever and wherever the mood takes them. " I don't know when I will get to read it, so I cannot provide any review of it, sadly. If anyone should like a copy of the book (I will have to charge postage on top of its purchase price) -- provided that there are more copies there when I return to the bookfair tomorrow ( on Sunday morning) -- please send me a PRIVATE e-mail to ray15@optusnet.com.au and I will do my best to get one for you, and to get it to you. Payment could be by return mail in postage stamps. BUT sadly you will only have about 13 hours from NOW to let me know that you'd like a copy. Sorry. Ray

Hi The information about Captain Thunderbolt and his 'career' which extended from the Hawkesbury to New England and then to the Narran is very interesting. I am interested in researching further my own family in the Narran area to the Warrego and would be very grateful if anyone can give me some leads on historical information available. My family were involved in horse and cattle stealing in exactly the same areas at the same time as Thunderbolt. There is a family story that one of them was involved with Thunderbolt. My g grandfather William McKenzie who was born at Pitt Town is alleged to have died at Gideon's Inn on the Narran while dancing a hornpipe. I am interested to know more about the area. The McKenzies had leases from the New England area to the Warrego in Queensland. Jean On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 1:12 AM, john.mail@ozemail.com.au < john.mail@ozemail.com.au> wrote: > > Thanks Deb, > I'm not a Thunderbolt researcher but curious to see what others make of > it. > Late now so I'll look into all the URLs you sent later .. thanks. > Re the material ..... > """"""""" > > Frederick Ward was born in 1835 in Wilberforce, near Windsor, though > there > is no official record of his birth. He worked as a drover and > horsebreaker > at Tocal Station on the Paterson River until his arrest in 1856 for > receiving seventy-five stolen horses. He was sentenced to ten years hard > labour. He was released in 1860, but he returned to Cockatoo Island to > complete his sentence after being tried for horse stealing. > Ward escaped in 1863 with the help of his wife, Mary Ann. They lived on > the > Culgoa River near Bourke until Ward adopted the name 'Captain Thunderbolt > in > 1865. With associates, Ward carried out armed robberies near Bourke, > Moree > and Gunnedah. Alone and with a reward of 200 pounds on his head, Ward > held > up a mailman in 1867 and was almost captured while drunk near Manilla. In > November that year his wife died of pneumonuia. > Ward then worked with William Monckton, a 13 year old runaway, until > October > 1868. On 25 May, 1870 Ward was surprised while testing a horse, chased > and > shot by Constable Alexander Binney Walker at Kentucky Creek near Uralla. > A > Protestant, he was buried in Uralla cemetery without religious rites. > Ward's career as a professional bushranger is attributed to his > horsemanship, choice of horse, never taking on armed guards or police and > popular sympathy due to his gentlemanly behaviour. > [1]http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/thunderbolt.htm > """"""""" > ...... it is not stated where this comes from. > It is however all stuff you can find in one or more of the various > Thunderbolt accounts around. > So, Mary swam the water with breakout tools and they broke out and bolted > for the Culgoa ..... Back o' Bourke. > To get far away from Sydney and any authorities the Culgoa would be fine. > To go up the Culgoa, go to Bourke then head up the Darling and just keep > going (don't veer right in to the Barwon). > Places on/near the Culgoa are Goodooga and Weilmoringle. [Goodooga is > actually on the Bokhara River, a parallle 'splay' to the Culgoa.] > Goodooga is supposedly an Aboriginal word meaning "Yam". > Mrs Thunderbolt being Aboriginal would know how to harvest/cook yams? > Goodooga in fact is made up largely of indigenous Australians. > It does sound an apt place to be legendary hideout of Captain Thunderbolt > and his ?small ?band. > Anyone who really wants to know what they think of Thunderbolt going to > there, in Goodooga can check with Tiger Cochrane who seems to be a > willing the contact on the village website (phone 0268296008). > > "It's is also believed that that large amounts of opal and gold are > situated > under and around Goodooga" - I know that as I'm a geologist, yet despite > those claims of large amounts of gold and opals there none of the mineral > explorers of modern times has found it. > Here's who's-who at Goodooga = > [2]http://mc2.vicnet.net.au/home/pmackett/nswsmith.html > Goodooga had a population of 29 in 1994. > The other centre along the Culgoa is Weilmoringle. > It only has a handful of houses. > In "New South Wales Aboriginal Deaths 1839-1945" you'll find that death > 8046/1926 is "Thunderbolt", a 71 year old Aborigine who died at New > Angledool (same region of NSW). > Now 71 from 1926 means 1855 .... and this person whoever it was would > have > been aged 10 around the time when it is thought Ward on/near the Culgoa > assumed the name Thunderbolt. > Also, Kitty Thunderbolt died at New Angledool in 1916 (aged 67). > And Jack Thunderbolt died at New Angledool in 1917. > Any connection? > It was an early habit of some Aborigines to 'exchange' names, including > with > Europeans. > Or could the Wards have taken up an existing name at the Culgoa region > for > some reason. > Or is this all just a meaningless coincidence? > Cheers, > John > > On Tue Mar 22 14:37 , 'Deb' sent: > > Hi John & listers, > Firstly, regarding Frederick Ward (Thunderbolt), no record of his birth > has > been found, even according to the registry itself. See > [3]http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/thunderbolt.htm which also > shows his > death certificate (cert.copy). > I don't know if it is true but I have read Thunderbolt was a Protestant > and > could have been born illegitimately. At the time of his birth (which > ever > date you agree with) you are actually talking about a record of baptism > not > a "registration" even though they appear as registrations in the > registry's > records. If a child was not baptised they may not have been recorded at > all. Illegitimacy may be one reason, distance/remoteness another, > remembering there wasn't a church for every denomination in every area > at > all times and just because the few Ministers travelled around doesn't > mean > they had contact with everyone or recorded events at the actual time > they > occurred, I would imagine. I remember reading somewhere that some, so > attached to their own faith, refused to use a C of E minister and > preferred > to go without any marriage/baptism ceremony in the absence of their > own. > In 1810 the Governor had ordered Chaplains to keep registers of all > births > and deaths in their parish/district. I don't for one minute believe > these > were all accurate... and whilst C of E ministers were required to > record & > pass on registers to the government, other denominations were not > required > to until later years - see chart on guide 4 (these time gaps increase > the > likelihood of lost or inaccurate records in my opinion). I don't know > anything about actual "gaps" in the records but living in the harsh > environment of the colony (incl flood/fire), anything could happen to > parish > registers. Even in "civilised" England parish records have sometimes > been > lost/destroyed in full or part. In the guide 4 mentioned below you can > look > at the break down at "Detailed list of registers". > Hopefully the following links & reading between the lines will give you > an > idea of why some births may not have been "registered". It pays to look > for > the background of records on the websites where you access them. I'm > all > for studies but you don't need a study to see that the record keeping > was > far from perfect in the colony. I think it was a miracle some births > were > recorded at all! > History of the registry's records > [4]http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/historyofRegistrysRec.htm > The 1810 order (partial quote) on the baptism page (SRNSW) > [5]http://tinyurl.com/4fe7ewm > Short Guide 4 - Attorney General and Justice: Registers of births, > deaths > and marriages (SRNSW) > [6]http://tinyurl.com/4do9usx > You may be interested in this page on lost & saved convict records > which > includes some census discussion (SRNSW). > [7]http://tinyurl.com/4cuv9h5 > Regarding census/musters, are you aware of the following page? It is > fantastic to refer to. > [8]http://www.convictcentral.com/index.html > regards, > Deb. > -----Original Message----- > From: [9]john.mail@ozemail.com.au > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 6:44 PM > To: [10]aus-nsw-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [HV] Thunderbolts middle name > Hi Richard, > If you check BDM online he doesn't appear to have been a registered > birth(?). > Even the cold hard facts of the governor general's last Sunday lunch > are > quickly lost if the guv'mint or someone aren't doing their job. > Perhaps they had a budget cut the year Thunderbolt was born and decided > only > to register two out of every five births at Wilberforce. > I'm particularly interested in just how gaps in records came about. > Or in any published studies on such. > For convict records there's been a few studies, apparently, of how > records > came to get lost, or wilfully destroyed. > But what happened to those studies? Perhaps they got lost too? > I suspect it is all very complicated ... if only we knew. > Cheers, > John > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... Thank you! > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [11]AUS-NSW-HUNTER-VALLEY-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ) > > References > > 1. > https://mail.iinet.net.au/mail/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bdm.nsw.gov.au%2FfamilyHistory%2Fthunderbolt.htm > 2. http://mc2.vicnet.net.au/home/pmackett/nswsmith.html > 3. file://localhost/tmp/ > parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bdm.nsw.gov.au%2FfamilyHistory%2Fthunderbolt.htm<http://parse.pl/?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bdm.nsw.gov.au%2FfamilyHistory%2Fthunderbolt.htm> > 4. file://localhost/tmp/ > parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bdm.nsw.gov.au%2FfamilyHistory%2FhistoryofRegistrysRec.htm<http://parse.pl/?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bdm.nsw.gov.au%2FfamilyHistory%2FhistoryofRegistrysRec.htm> > 5. file://localhost/tmp/ > parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Ftinyurl.com%2F4fe7ewm<http://parse.pl/?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Ftinyurl.com%2F4fe7ewm> > 6. file://localhost/tmp/ > parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Ftinyurl.com%2F4do9usx<http://parse.pl/?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Ftinyurl.com%2F4do9usx> > 7. file://localhost/tmp/ > parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Ftinyurl.com%2F4cuv9h5<http://parse.pl/?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Ftinyurl.com%2F4cuv9h5> > 8. file://localhost/tmp/ > parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.convictcentral.com%2Findex.html<http://parse.pl/?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.convictcentral.com%2Findex.html> > 9. javascript:top.opencompose('john.mail@ozemail.com.au','','','') > 10. javascript:top.opencompose('aus-nsw-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com > ','','','') > 11. javascript:top.opencompose(' > AUS-NSW-HUNTER-VALLEY-request@rootsweb.com','','','') > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... Thank you! > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-NSW-HUNTER-VALLEY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello John, I have a copy of the birth certificate for Mary Walmsley showing date as 14 February 1860. I received this plus death certificates for Joseph and Bridget from another researcher back in 1994. It's not a good copy but you can have a copy if you wish. regards, Joe Greaves

John, Good Morning, If you go back to the early days of family history being recorded from the old Govt. and Church Records in New South Wales, a lot of this work was done by inmates of the Gaols in Sydney (and maybe elsewhere). It is very probable a lot of those people were not as well educated as they could have been, and a lot didn't give a hoot whether they recorded them properly or not, so the result was that a lot of mistakes were on those early micro-fiche, and that info was eventually put onto the internet. I started working on my family trees almost 40 years ago, and to my knowledge some of this information has not been revised. It is quite possible that birth, marriage and death registrations from country areas never got to the State Government Registrar - careless handling, didn't care if it got there or not, washed away crossing a fast flowing creek, burnt in a bush fire, used to light a camp fire on which to boil the billy, held up by Bush Rangers - you can probably think up any number of reasons why it is not in the official records - remember, a lot of people were not educated very well, if indeed they had any education at all. Aren't we lucky we have as much info as we do. The only photograph I have of my paternal grandfather is a "mug shot" taken in Goulburn Gaol in the very early 1900s. This Gaol was the first in NSW where inmates were photographed, and my grandfather was staying there for a three year holiday because he and two brothers kept gold dust and tiny nuggets in their socks after a day's work in the gold mines on the NSW tablelands. I have some info on his trial, and he pleaded with the Judge to let his two younger brothers go free, and he "took the rap" for all of them. The Judge agreed and off he went to Goulburn, and my grandmother, my father and his two sisters (all very young) lived with family around the Blayney area during that time. When my grandfather completed his sentence, that same Judge got him job with the Water Board in Sydney because of his experience with explosives, and my grandfather worked there until his retirement some 30 odd years later. I can still see in my mind, my grandfather standing in our back garden in Willoughby talking to my father in the early 1940s, and I was only three when he died in 1942 - he used to bring me an ice cream in a little cardboard bucket, which was a real treat in the days of World War ll. I hope you find as much as possible on your family, even if it does not show up in public records. happy hunting. Liz. On 24/03/2011 8:00 PM, john.mail@ozemail.com.au wrote: > Hello Jenelle, > In contrast to the version that they went to the Culgoa after breakout from > Cockatoo Island (which is with the URL sent here recently re the BDM article > that contains photo of the Thunderbolt's death certificate) there's accounts > of Fred or Mrs Thunderbolt, Mary Ann Bugg, which don't have them going to > the Culgoa at all - Far from going direct to Bourke thence on up the Culgoa > one says "On one occasion they even rode as far west as Bourke. During this > time, Ward and Mary Ann Bugg managed to have four children" - as if they > only got to Bourke later on? > But if you check online BDM you'll find "Thuderbolts" around Angledool. > I'm certainly not sure what it all means. > Also there was supposedly a child registered of the`very same name > ("Frederick Wordsworth Ward") .. one of their children ["she had a fourth > child not long before her death, as a son Frederick Wordsworth Ward was > registered in the 'Tamworth Circuit' after her death in early 1868 to > Frederick& Mary Ann Ward. This birth may have contributed to her death"], > but if so where is that in the online BDM records. > Seems very puzzling stuff one way or another? > Cheers, > John > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > On Thu Mar 24 16:40 , 'Jenelle Mccarrick' sent: > > Some of my ancestors were around that area,Angledool... PAGE, COLLINS, > COVENEY.. > Jenelle. > -----Original Message----- > From: [1]aus-nsw-hunter-valley-bounces@rootsweb.com > [[2]aus-nsw-hunter-valley-bounces@rootsweb.com','','','')">[3]aus-nsw-hunt > er-valley-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John > Sent: Thursday, 24 March 2011 5:52 PM > To: [4]aus-nsw-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [HV] Thunderbolts middle name > Hi Richard, > Yes I would be interested in any/all of that too. > As I think I sent to the list ... (?).... Fred Ward is a non-exist on BDM. > But try searching for Thunderbolt surname. > You'll find they exist. > They lived and died at Angledool area .. north of Narran Lake, Culgoa > River > area, back of Bourke. > So I was wondering what does all that mean. > I just got sent some great detail for this area, by a list member. > Cheers, > John > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > At 09:51 PM 23/03/2011 -0700, you wrote: > >Hello > > > >Not sure if this message has been posted as I had a failure notice. > > > >On the subject of rewriting history, I've been looking for something I > read, I > >think it was by Errol Lea-Scarlett, arguing that the 1870 destruction of > convict > >records was due to the hated stain and the desire of a prosperous new > middle > >class to erase our convict origins. Views of Thunderbolt's career could > be seen > >in the same way, in the sense that if he escaped and it was covered up > >by police history has been rewritten to suit a prevailing mindset. This > has > >been the thesis of recent books on the subject. And if so then just > maybe > the > >truth could be sought out.. > > > >Regards > > > >Richard > > > > > > > > > > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > > reply...... Thank you! > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [5]AUS-NSW-HUNTER-VALLEY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... 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Hello Ken and John. I am only loosely following this interesting discussion; and thank each of the participants for it. This posting is to pick up on the issue of who his father might have been. IF Thunderbolt / Fred WARD does have KNOWN direct MALE descendants only in the male line --- such as a son, grandson, great-grandson, great, great grandson; etc. --- then any one or more of them can these days have a DNA test done. The results of this blood test can then be compared with the results of similar tests done world-wide to show (sometimes with great exactitude) which other families have the same "results". In this way, the identity of his father MIGHT be ascertained more precisely, to either confirm or deny the hypothesis below. Rootsweb has a special DNA list, for anyone interested in this. Sorry, no time right now to post the link to it. HTH: ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth EDWARDS" <tenedw2@hotmail.com> > > John wrote.. > " It might be because his mother, who is held to have been Sarah Ward > the daughter of Michael Ward, convict" > I do not agree with this "recent" theory, the basis for which was > originally the age of Sarah's Mother..It was implied that at age 47, > Sophia was too old to have a child !.. so naturally he had to be Sarah's > boy...Recently further weight was given to the argument with the discovery > of Sarah's application to marry a prisoner named John HASWELL in August > 1832..Calculations based on data from certificates put Fred's birth year > around 1833 making the prisoner a likely candidate.HASWELL'S application > was refused, but what is overlooked is that in Sep 1833 a 17 year old > Sarah Anne WARD of Windsor was granted permission to marry another > prisoner named Morgan CARROLL.Whether or not that person was our Sarah > remains to be seen.. regardless, she did end up marrying John GARBUTT on > the 7th December 1835.According to prison records Fred was born in either > 1835 or 1836 in which case John Garbutt may well be Fred's Father !In > reality, the only person with the correct answer is his Mother! .. be it > Sarah or Sophia ! > Ken

Dear John, I have information on the Walmsley family shared by members of this list in about 2002. My connection is with Constance Louise Walmsley (db.1871 Newcastle, NSW). (Parents: Joseph Walmsley and Bridget Power). (Notes mention that Constance was one of the nine children of Joseph and Bridget) Joseph was born in Great Bolton, Lancashire around 1820 and arrived in Australia in 1849 with wife Martha Smith and sons. (Bridget was the second wife of Joseph Walmsely and married in 1852 in Newcastle NSW) Constance married George Earnshaw Broughton in Newcastle in 1890 and died in 1946 in Liverpool NSW. I will contact you off list regarding forwarding documentation of this Walmsley/Broughton Family Helen Kennett. Atherton Tablelands. Qld. ---- I am trying to ascertain the actual dates of birth of several of the children of Joseph and Bridget Walmsley. I am aware of the actual birth dates of Ellen, Alice and Joseph, but not of Robert circa 1856, Mary circa 1860, Frederick circa 186,1 William circa 1865, Lavinia circa 1867 and Constance circa 1871. They were all born in Newcastle. I would appreciate any assistance in obtaining actual birth dates. John Bird Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you!

Either the Newcastle library or the Newcastle uni library has a whole bunch of online photos of early maitland that may contain some pictures of that area. I don't know which library it is and I don't know the URL address for them but I know they are there. If you can find those sites you might get lucky. -----Original Message----- From: aus-nsw-hunter-valley-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-nsw-hunter-valley-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Margaret Bauer Sent: Thursday, 24 March, 2011 4:52 PM To: AUS-NSW-Hunter-Valley-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [HV] Old Maitland History Hi Listers This is a very long shot indeed, but nothing ventured is nothing gained, and there are usually some historical buffs about who have a good handle on old Maitland History. I am trying to find if there is any old images of High Street about the era of 1850s to 1880 or so, that shows the corner of High Street and Devonshire Street. The reason for this, is that I would like to find an old image of what "The Australian" Hotel looked like, which originally stood on either the east or west corner (not sure which), of Devonshire and High Street. If anyone comes up with something then my email address is below. Thankyou Margaret ************************* Margaret Bauer Qld, Australia bauerm@tpg.com.au ************************* Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-NSW-HUNTER-VALLEY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message