Hello all I have a marriage certificate for Michael Leary (O'Leary) and Maria Perrier, who lived most of their adult lives in Singleton and who are both buried in the Queen Street Cemetery Singleton. They were married St Andrew's Church Sydney on 5 September 1836 and abode was given as Sydney and St Vincents. Was there an area in Sydney or the Hunter known as St Vincents or could this be referring to St Vincent's Hospital? Any help appreciated. Regards, Jan Koperberg Blue Mountains, brrrrr!!!!

There was gold mining in the Maitland area. We are in the process of indexing the Auriferous Leases (gold bearing lands) for NSW and we have come across some for the Maitland area. Kaye www.bananatv.com/familytreechecklist.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray" <ray15@optusnet.com.au> To: <AUS-NSW-Hunter-Valley-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 1:07 AM Subject: Re: [HV] Maitland area > Hello Robyn. > > Here are some > Many, many years ago, when I first started researching, I > was using the Sands

Well, actually yes. There was gold discovered in Bishops Bridge at perhaps that time and one mine was sunk but it was never viable commercially. Interestingly it was discovered first as flecks in the crop of a goose that had been killed for dinner! There was, however a large sandstone quarry nearby, called Ravensfield. What was the occupation of your relative (as per the marriage certificate, perhaps)? Bishops Bridge had hotels, a wine shop, a school, a church, a blacksmith and a cemetery. Also in 1852 the Bishops Bridge PO directory covered a much larger area than one would expect from today's boundary. Maitland/Morpeth was the largest town outside of Sydney in the 1840s. Maitland was established as the market garden for Sydney, having already provided timber. Land was granted and quickly taken up along the rivers. Morpeth was the head of the river and so all river traffic stopped at Morpeth or Maitland. By 1831, however, there was a road from Sydney to Maitland so people could come overland. Regards, John Goswell > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "francescoacciarito" <fracc@optusnet.com.au> >To: <AUS-NSW-Hunter-Valley-L@rootsweb.com> > >>I have an ancestor who was married in Sydney c 1856 then went to >>Maitland/Bishop's Bridge areas to live and have their family. What might > >>have been happening around those areas tin the 1850's to warrent moving > >>such a distance? Was gold discovered there? He and family them moved on >to >>Melbourne by 1859. He was a painter/carpenter by trade, so was something > >>big being built then? >> Any clues appreciated. >> >> Cheers, Robyn of Geelong. >--- End of the Attached Message --- >

Hello Robyn. Here are some thoughts in response to your questions. Many, many years ago, when I first started researching, I was using the Sands Directories. In one of them, either in the 1840s or 1850s (I don't know why 1852 comes to mind); somewhere near the front, there were some words about Maitland, and it said that it was THE LARGEST TOWN outside of Sydney -- at that time. Accordingly, it may be that your fellow moved there for that reason. But of course, one could then ask, "then why was it the second largest town in NSW at that time?"; which from a quick paraphrase of reading various historical items on Maitland over the year, MIGHT be answered: "Because it was the main departure point for the lower and upper Hunter areas, and became a thriving and almost a boom-town." Of course, a different reason for his going from Sydney to Maitland MIGHT have been either because he originally came from there, or had lived there; OR because possibly his wife came from there. Re Gold Mining: From memory, I don't recall reading of any sizeable gold-mining in the Maitland area; but better-informed listers could write on that. However, I don't think that gold-mining would have been a great determinant of the booming growth of Maitland (as I expect that travel to and from the NSW gold-mining areas -- around Bathurst --- would more likely be directly over the Blue Mountains, via Katoomba, etc.); nevertheless, I expect that a sizeable proportion of the wealth in NSW from gold-mining, might have found its way to the burgeoning Maitland district. And of course, gold-mining might be why he later made his way to what was then known as "Marvellous Melbourne" from the riches on your own gold-mining fields. Hopefully other listers will have other thoughts to share with you on this topic. Good luck with your researches. Ray in Sydney ----- Original Message ----- From: "francescoacciarito" <fracc@optusnet.com.au> To: <AUS-NSW-Hunter-Valley-L@rootsweb.com> >I have an ancestor who was married in Sydney c 1856 then went to >Maitland/Bishop's Bridge areas to live and have their family. What might >have been happening around those areas tin the 1850's to warrent moving >such a distance? Was gold discovered there? He and family them moved on to >Melbourne by 1859. He was a painter/carpenter by trade, so was something >big being built then? > Any clues appreciated. > > Cheers, Robyn of Geelong.

I have an ancestor who was married in Sydney c 1856 then went to Maitland/Bishop's Bridge areas to live and have their family. What might have been happening around those areas tin the 1850's to warrent moving such a distance? Was gold discovered there? He and family them moved on to Melbourne by 1859. He was a painter/carpenter by trade, so was something big being built then? Any clues appreciated. Cheers, Robyn of Geelong.

Thanks Marg, for the correct address, and answering my question. Cheers, Robyn of Geelong.

Hi List Thanks to everyone who passed on either advice or information or both Barb

Hi List I am hoping someone could help me with Singleton Cemetery Transcripts. I am looking for a Kevin WALSH he died in 1958, I am hoping to find his wife's name. I believe that they are buried together. If anyone can help i would love to hear from them Barb

There is anecdotal evidence that my g grandafather enlisted in the military around 1860. He was residing at Paddington at that time so probably attached to Victoria Barracks. I have my doubts as he was "a man of leisure"and I cant see why he would enlist. Can someone tell me how and where I could go to establish this as fact or fiction. Many thanks Allan Golding Lake Macquarie

Lynette and Marilyn, In the Hunter Valley I have a Mary and Patrick Smith as one of my sets of gg grandparents. Two of their children married Bridges and Goodwins. Their son John Isodore Smith, born 23/9/1855, married BRIDGE, Matilda b: 21 Jan 1859 d: 6 Sep 1932. John and Matilda's children married into the following families - Drummond, O'Hearn, Williams, Jones, Forbes , Henderson, Crossleys and Burgess. James, another son of Mary and Patrick, born 20/9/1858 died 12/8/1917 at Kurri Kurri married Sarah Jane Goodwin, b 28/5/1872, died 15/8/1946 at Rydalmere. I'm descended from another child of Mary and Patrick's, a daughter Mary Agnes Smith. She may have been born in Wollombi. She married Martin Bouffier in Maitland in 1875. After her death in 1893 Martin married Honorah McGrane. Are these people in your family line, or in your wanders around family history in the Hunter Valley have you come across them? I have more information about John Smith and Matilda Bridge and have made contact with other family members descended from them if you are interested. Anne Whiteford ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marilyn Mercer" <mmm@myisp.net.au> To: <AUS-NSW-HILLS-HAWKESBURY-HUNTER-VALLEY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [HHHV] Surname interests around NSW > Hello Lynette > My family includes BERRY/BARRY, BRIDGE, GOODWIN all of whom were settled > in > the Hunter Valley at Wollombi and Maitland in the early 1800s onwards. > These > have not been "recent " in the areas you have mentioned. > Please let me know more specifically what your interest is. > Marilyn Mercer > Windsor > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lynette Begg" <lynetteb@optusnet.com.au> > To: <AUS-NSW-HILLS-HAWKESBURY-HUNTER-VALLEY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 9:11 AM > Subject: [HHHV] Surname interests around NSW > > >> I have the following surnames that 'started' in the New England area, >> particularly focused around Walcha and environs and in the late 1800s >> into >> the early 1900s. More recent generations are known to be on the coast >> and >> down into the Hunter Valley and as further south to Sydney and beyond. >> Hoping there are some connections on this list today. >> >> BERRY >> >> BRIDGE >> >> EGAN >> >> FARDELL >> >> FENERTY >> >> FRANCIS >> >> GOODWIN >

I have the following surnames that 'started' in the New England area, particularly focused around Walcha and environs and in the late 1800s into the early 1900s. More recent generations are known to be on the coast and down into the Hunter Valley and as further south to Sydney and beyond. Hoping there are some connections on this list today. BERRY BRIDGE EGAN FARDELL FENERTY FRANCIS GOODWIN HANSON HATCH HAYDEN HERON HOLDER HOY HUNTER JONES KELLY LISLE McMILLAN OGILVIE RODEY SCOTT SMITH (James from Niangala) STEER SUTHERLAND TICKLE (Henry from Quipolly - son of John TICKLE and Ann COLE, other children settled in Dungog) WEBB WINTERS WOOD WRITE Lynette Begg P.O. Box 289 East Maitland NSW 2323 Australia BROBBEL One Name Study - brobbel@one-name.org Guild member 4139 researching all BROBBELs and their descendants from all countries and all time periods. SUTHERLAND Family Reunion for descendants of Robert SUTHERLAND and Grace LOUTFOOT / LIGHTFOOT on 14th & 15th October 2006 at St. John's Centre, Morpeth NSW Australia. Their grandchildren's surnames SUTHERLAND, HOY, RODEY, TICKLE, SMITH, WINTERS, HENDERSON, WESTWATER, SMART, PETERSON, ISLES and MEDEW. http://www.geocities.com/sutherlandreunion

Dear Listers I was down in Sydney today at the LPO ( was Land Titles Office) and cost of a copy ticket will increase to $11 from 1 Jul 2006 Not so long ago these cost $4 ............... Bye MargM List Admin Sydney, New England, Hunter Valley, Central Coast lists

Thank you Maureen, I have found all three headstones for the three ancestors for whom I cannot find registered deaths, two in Whittingham Cemetery and one in Queen St Cemetery Singleton, and I have taken photos. Thank you to all the readers who have made suggestions, i.e. 'Benny' who suggested the 'Maitland Mercury' for death notices and yourself, for suggesting Probate. I was hoping to get transcriptions of death registrations, to gather more information, but Wills would also have other information. Apparently Land Department records also have quite a bit of information on the families who have owned land, sometimes listing wife's name, children's names and in the case of a death, to whom the land was transferred, which sometimes gives you the married names of daughters, their husbands, etc. I have only been researching since January 2006, so have not had the opportunity, as yet, to tap into a lot of the available resources, but I am thoroughly enjoying myself. Jan Koperberg Blue Mountains,NSW ----- Original Message ----- From: "crawleybigpond.net.au" <crawley@bigpond.net.au> To: <AUS-NSW-Hunter-Valley-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 11:24 AM Subject: [HV] Black Holes > Jan asked the question were some of the early deaths not listed. > > For my Patrick Noonan and Mary Bohen/Bowen the answer is yes. > > I only found Patricks pre 1856 death because he has a wonderful headstone > in Raymond Terrace Pioneer Cemetery. I believe he may have died at his > home in the Millers Forest area, but as he didn't own land I can only > assume this. > > Mary Bohen/Bowen, wonderful headstone at the Raymond Terrace Pioneer > Cemetery. Because of this headstone she died on 8 September 1850, we was > able to find a will. Quite unusal for a 'irish female' married to a > convict in the male dominated English society of the 1850's. > > Always check out the local cemeteries, they may just provide the details > you seek. > > Maureen > > > ==== AUS-NSW-Hunter-Valley Mailing List ==== > Be creative about subject headers . These are your advertisement > >

Jan asked the question were some of the early deaths not listed. For my Patrick Noonan and Mary Bohen/Bowen the answer is yes. I only found Patricks pre 1856 death because he has a wonderful headstone in Raymond Terrace Pioneer Cemetery. I believe he may have died at his home in the Millers Forest area, but as he didn't own land I can only assume this. Mary Bohen/Bowen, wonderful headstone at the Raymond Terrace Pioneer Cemetery. Because of this headstone she died on 8 September 1850, we was able to find a will. Quite unusal for a 'irish female' married to a convict in the male dominated English society of the 1850's. Always check out the local cemeteries, they may just provide the details you seek. Maureen

Researching the SUTHERLANDs of Walcha. Some stayed in the New England area around Armidale and Tamworth while others spread out, some to the coastal areas, some to various parts of the Hunter Valley and some to Sydney and the Central Coast. Would love to find some of those 'missing' groups. Lynette Begg nee Sutherland Lynette Begg P.O. Box 289 East Maitland NSW 2323 Australia BROBBEL One Name Study - brobbel@one-name.org Guild member 4139 researching all BROBBELs and their descendants from all countries and all time periods. SUTHERLAND Family Reunion for descendants of Robert SUTHERLAND and Grace LOUTFOOT / LIGHTFOOT on 14th & 15th October 2006 at St. John's Centre, Morpeth NSW Australia. Their grandchildren's surnames SUTHERLAND, HOY, RODEY, TICKLE, SMITH, WINTERS, HENDERSON, WESTWATER, SMART, PETERSON, ISLES and MEDEW. http://www.geocities.com/sutherlandreunion

> In reply to below, 'yes', but luckily it was only a > matter of getting a death certificate transcription for > the wrong person. I was looking for a death certificate > for Michael O'Leary, who died 3rd May 1882. This date > is on his tombstone in the Queen Street Cemetery, > Singleton, but I cannot find a registration. I have > checked under Leary and O'Leary. I sent for a > transcription of a death certificate for a Michael > O'Leary whose death was registered the following year > ( at Glebe - I thought perhaps he had been taken to the > morgue in Glebe), and it turned out to be a child from > another family. I also cannot find registrations for > John Ross who died 15th March 1834 or Isaac Perrett who > died 15th January 1841, both buried at Whittingham > Cemetery. Were some of the early deaths not registered? Jan Koperberg Blue Mountains, NSW,Australia Civil rego of BDMs only starts from 1 Mar 1856. so before that are just church records of baptism, burial and marriage Not all registers made it to Sydney . Getting from A-B was often no easy task. Going north from Sydney there was no road bridge across the Hawkesbury till 1945 Sydney wasnt connected to Newcastle by train till 1887 Be aware of names of places of where events supposedly registered . Are quite a lot of errors see http://www.rootsweb.com/~nswsdps/dps/ Bye MargM Hunter Valley List Admin

Hello Marg and List. Luckily we had not proceeded too far down the wrong track on one of our lines, before a maiden aunt pulled us up short. (This is not a Hunter Valley family; but the incident might be instructive nevertheless.) My wife is English and we were very carefully researching her father's mother, who is said to have been orphaned at a very young age. Her maiden name was Ellen Sophia HEATH. We went to London and stayed with a maiden aunt who was the eldest daughter in the family, who gave us some oral history, but said that she did not know too much because her mother had been orphaned and didn't know her parents. Anyway, armed with her maiden surname from this aunt (because no marriage certificate could be found) we headed off to what was then St. Catherine's House in London to search through the indexes, having an approximate birth YEAR for her, but little else. Very quickly we found in their quartely indexes of Birth registrations, in the relevant year, a birth for an Ellen Sophia HEATH, and paid for a birth certificate. Several days later we returned to collect the certificate, and joyfully took it back to our Aunty Vi. When we told her the details off the certificate, including that her mother had been born in Henley-on-Thames; she said "NO", "Mother always said that she was born in Chelsea". We felt sure that she was wrong; but because she was so insistent we returned to St. Catherine's House the next day, and looked through the indexes for all FOUR quarters of the relevant year. Well, blow me down, if we did not find in another quarter, the birth of a different Ellen Sophia HEATH, and this time it was indeed registered in Chelsea. We are both very careful genealogists, and this incident showed us just how easy it is to assume that a name is so unusual that it would not be given to someone else in that same year. Of course IF we had found a marriage certificate for our grandmother, then that would have given her father's name, to at least have given us something small to double-check against. For us though, it was frightening to know that IF our aunt had not been there with that small amount of valuable knowledge, we should have merrily gone on researching backwards on the WRONG family tree. Consequently, we now take with many grains of salt, any research which is not grounded on at least two, but preferably three, separate pieces of documentary evidence. Thanks for the question Marg. It will be interesting and instructive to read the experiences of others also. Regards: Ray in Sydney ----- Original Message ----- From: "MargM" <genknut@optusnet.com.au> To: <AUS-NSW-Hunter-Valley-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 11:13 AM Subject: [HV] Research black hole/s > How many of you have researched the wrong family/ies ? > > Come on fez up !

How many of you have researched the wrong family/ies ? Come on fez up ! .............. I've only had one major blunder a few years ago when doing SILS family on a shoestring budget . I failed to buy what turned out to be a major marriage certificate and that sent me off on gathering alot of info and photos of heads stones etc on a completely unrelated family . Some time went by before I discovered my error/s . His gt grannie was a Maud Matilda BUT the one in the BMD indexes at around the right time frame recorded as Maude Matilda WASNT his . His was indexed just as Maud Its alot of fun looking for and hopefully finding the right clues Bye MargM Hunter Valley List Admin

going overseas

This is not quite near the Hunter Valley but close by and . A friend told me today that her grandmother married two men on the same day in two separate districts. The mother said that her grandmother couldn't decide which one to marry, so she married both. She had children in both marriages. The step children found out many years later that they were related. Their children, long married, and senior citizens themselves are fascinated by the events. My friend's mother was apparently married under the wrong family name being from the second marriage. None of this matters any more, but we assume so readily that the proper "rules" were followed in the past. They are not followed in the present and future family historians will be facing an uphill battle. As researchers, we assume, probably in error, that public records are accurate. An interesting story but worth remembering that our family trees may not be all that accurate. Take care, Gordon.