Could someone help me with the initials "Esq., M.C.," after William Bowman's name?  I believe that William Bowman (1799 -1874) - was a Member of the Legilislative Council in the 1840's, however I understood that would be signified by the initials M.L.C.  Thanks Stuart ============================================== Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 10:33:03 +1100 From: "Patricia" <adsl4805@tsn.cc> Subject: [HHHV] Birth and Marriages October 1843 To: "HHHV" <aus-nsw-hills-hawkesbury-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <876551B827EA4BC4A4FC8438A765DED7@pat9924573> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="iso-8859-1" Marriages Saturday 14 October 1843 - At Richmond, by special license, on Thursday, 12th instant, by the Rev. H. T. Stiles, A.M., Mr. Thomas Cadell, junior, Windsor, to Ann Catherine, daughter of William Bowman, Esq., M.C., Richmond. ==============================================

Hello Stuart. It seems that this was the accepted abbreviation for a member of the NSW 'legislative' Council, BEFORE M.L.C. came into use. Here are some more examples from the Sydney Gazette: Saturday 30th May 1835, page 2: online at the NLA site: Robert Campbell, Esq., M.C. H. H. McArthur, Esq., M.C. E. C. Close, Esq , M.C. William Lithgow, Esq., M C. Richard J ones, Esq., M C. Alexander Berry, Esq., M.C. Archibald Bell, Esq , M.C. John Blaxland, Esq., M.C. Major Gibbs M.C Here is a link to the web-site of the Parliament of NSW, specifically to the Legislative Council pages/threads. http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/web/common.nsf/key/LCRole I note that although they refer throughout to the "Legislative Council", the reference lower down the page referring to the "NSW Act" of 1823, mentions "a Council", and NOT a/the "Legislative" Council. >From memory (so I may well be wrong in this) I think that I have a faint recollection of it's having been referred to in the early years as the Governor's Council -- but I may be confusing this with the Governor's Court. So my guess is that in those early periods, M.C. most probably stood for Member of Council; and at some later stage (perhaps as a result of the later-mentioned "Constitution Act" of 1842) it expanded out to become M.L.C. HTH: Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart Adam" <akasazb-stuartadam@yahoo.co.uk> To: <aus-nsw-hills-hawkesbury-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 8:04 AM Subject: [HHHV] William Bowman > Could someone help me with the initials "Esq., M.C.," after William > Bowman's name? I believe that William Bowman (1799 -1874) - was a Member > of the Legilislative Council in the 1840's, however I understood that > would be signified by the initials M.L.C. > > Thanks > Stuart > ============================================== > > Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 10:33:03 +1100 > From: "Patricia" <adsl4805@tsn.cc> > Subject: [HHHV] Birth and Marriages October 1843 > To: "HHHV" <aus-nsw-hills-hawkesbury-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <876551B827EA4BC4A4FC8438A765DED7@pat9924573> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Marriages > > Saturday 14 October 1843 - At Richmond, by special license, on Thursday, > 12th instant, by the Rev. H. T. Stiles, A.M., Mr. Thomas Cadell, junior, > Windsor, to Ann Catherine, daughter of William Bowman, Esq., M.C., > Richmond. > > ============================================== > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-NSW-HILLS-HAWKESBURY-HUNTER-VALLEY-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > >

If I could build on Ray's answer ... Before it was a legislative body, the Council was a consultative body (non-elected) so MC is as Ray reports. (BTW the word councillor originates in a Latin term meaning that you got to sit in the Emperor's presence). The Esq is an Esquire and an honorific title. Originally it meant a person who was esquired of land ie a land owner - the local Squire if you like. The Esquire ranked just below a Knight but in Australia it was purely honorific and carried no inherent powers such as being the local Justice of the Peace, although Magistrates and other Justices of the Peace were until very recently always given the post-nominal Esq in correspondence etc. You will see in Ray's list that the person who has a pre-nominal title (the Major) didn't get the post-nominal Esq.. If you were a QC/KC or a PC (Privy Councillor) or you were the Hon. etc or clergy etc then no Esq. either. This reflects its junior position in the ranks - an Esq. is just ahead of a Gentleman (denoted by the pre-nominal Mr.) but ranked below everyone else. Regards Ian J 2009/12/8 Ray <ray15@optusnet.com.au>: > It seems that this was the accepted abbreviation for a member of the NSW > 'legislative' Council, BEFORE M.L.C. came into use.