Listers may be interested in attending the next Hawkesbury Family History Group meeting on Wednesday 11th October 2006 at 10am. The topic will be "The history of NSW Prisons" with John Pearson the speaker discussing the history of the NSW Prison system. John will talk about the history of prisons from 1797 to the 20th century. He will also provide details about the changes in gaol design and construction and the various gaol disciplines considered by the authorities of the day. He will also discuss the technical changes such as the introduction of fingerprinting and photography, regulatory changes and the wide variety of industries carried out in prisons. The meeting is held in the Tebbutt Room of Hawkesbury Central Library at 300 George Street, Windsor. Anyone interested in family and local history is welcome to attend and there is no charge. For more information contact Michelle Nichols by phone 02 4560-4466, or email [email protected]

Hi List, Parish maps are on line: www.parishmaps.lands.nsw.gov.au Regards Annie Lotocki

Dear Judy, I think you would really need to know exactly where the land was. On the original maps which are held by State Records KINGSWOOD the name of the person originally granted the land appears on the map along with the size of the land. Many of these have been put on CD. Try www.records.nsw.gov.au where I think there might be an Archives in Brief (information sheet) on the subject. Sincerely,Bill > Good day once again, > Is it possible to find out which servants were assigned to the original > holder of Camyr Allyn. I note from his diary that he had 7 servants. It is > possible that my convict ancestors may have been employed by him.

Dear Barbara, Have you tried State Records KINGSWOOD, not far from where you are looking at investigating? They hold all the old parish maps and have put many of them on CD. I think there is an Archives in Brief (help sheet) on the subject and you will find them on www.records.nsw.gov.au Sincerely,Bill > Are there any early maps (1870-90's) of Lapstone Hill area? > I have never been able to locate where my great-great-grandfather, Henry > MESSER 'had' (owned? leased? rented?) his farm during the

A few websites to check out, especially seeing your great great grandfather was a railway worker http://www.infobluemountains.net.au/rail/lower/lapstone.htm; http://www.bluemts.com.au/tourist/towns/lapstone.asp; http://www.railtrails.org.au/states/trails.php3?action=trail&trail=53; http://www.users.bigpond.com/carneyvaughan/naston.htm - Website of Nell Aston, who wrote a book "Rails, Roads and Ridges - A History of Lapstone Hill - Glenbrook". Jan Koperberg Blue Mountains ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Wimbles" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 7:34 PM Subject: [HHHV] Lapstone Hill > Are there any early maps (1870-90's) of Lapstone Hill area? > I have never been able to locate where my great-great-grandfather, Henry > MESSER 'had' (owned? leased? rented?) his farm during the 1870's and up > until 1886. > Lapstone Hill is given as his residence in 1880s Electoral Roll. > His children talked of walking down through the bush, 2 miles to the > school at St Paul's, Emu Plains and of fruit picking in Euroka Clearing. > The farm supplied 'the city folk who came to their country residences on > the Mountains'. > Henry was a railway worker as well. The family 'was persecuted and forced > off the farm in early 1886'. > Does anyone have any suggestions? > Barbara > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date: 2/10/2006 >

See this link for pictures from the State Library of New South Wales. http://image.sl.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/ebindshow.pl?doc=ssv1b/a1565;thumbs=1 Mary-Ann.

Are there any early maps (1870-90's) of Lapstone Hill area? I have never been able to locate where my great-great-grandfather, Henry MESSER 'had' (owned? leased? rented?) his farm during the 1870's and up until 1886. Lapstone Hill is given as his residence in 1880s Electoral Roll. His children talked of walking down through the bush, 2 miles to the school at St Paul's, Emu Plains and of fruit picking in Euroka Clearing. The farm supplied 'the city folk who came to their country residences on the Mountains'. Henry was a railway worker as well. The family 'was persecuted and forced off the farm in early 1886'. Does anyone have any suggestions? Barbara

Good day once again, Is it possible to find out which servants were assigned to the original holder of Camyr Allyn. I note from his diary that he had 7 servants. It is possible that my convict ancestors may have been employed by him. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Joseph Owen was my ancestor and he married Eliza Harvey in 1838, he at that time was free, she was still bonded. thanks judy from tassy

Jonathan and Jude, I was interested to read your comments about the Allyn River because an ancestor of mine who married in East Maitland in 1843 gave his address as Allyn River so now I know where it is. All the best, Gail ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Auld" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 2:45 PM Subject: Re: [HHHV] Camyr Allyn > Jude, > > Further to Jenny's earlier comments - Camyr Allyn is the name of the > original land grant that Charles Boydell acquired in 1826. The ruins of > the > original homestead is still located on the property, overlooking the Allyn > River just out of East Gresford on the Allyn River Road. > > We had the privilege of meeting the current owner John Evers on a recent > holiday in the area. John operates 'Camyr Allyn Wines' from the property > today. John's contact details can be found on his winery website. > > If you have access to Google Earth, plug in the following coordinates for > the property (-32.419638, 151.551676) > > Regards, > > Jonathan > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message

I think you will find it is Welsh Jenny McCarthy wrote: > If you put Camyr Allyn into Google you will find it is a homestead near East > Gresford in the Hunter Valley. > > > > > ..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:- > ¸.·´ .·´¨¨)) > ((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:- > -:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*.` > Jenny McCarthy > Brightwaters N.S.W. > on beautiful Lake Macquarie > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Thanks Lesley, Jo and I have been in touch re these families. Regards Jann -----Original Message----- From: Lesley Uebel [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, 1 October 2006 10:08 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [HHHV] Budsworth not Buttsworth I think you will find that Jo was asking about the Budworth / Budsworth family - not the Buttsworth family..... although both have connections with the Thomas and Jane Rose family. regards Lesley Uebel mailto:[email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Heather . Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 9:53 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HHHV] AUS-NSW-HILLS-HAWKESBURY-HUNTER-VALLEY Digest, Vol 1,Issue 8 Hi all I have the Buttsworth family tree and as I only have two Josiahs' and not a single Joseph. Henry Buttworth married Sarah Rose daughter of Thomas Rose and Jane Topp, 8 Nov 1813 in Windsor NSW Cheers Heather

Hawkesbury Advocate, Friday March 16, 1900 (page 3) PITT TOWN. (From our own correspondent.) A couple of members of the Australian Mounted Rifles have been on a visit to Pitt Town friends during the week. Some of the local streets are in a deplorably rough state. They are bad enough now, but what will they be in wet weather. Mr. W. Gillespie, our courteous baker, intends taking a tour to Melbourne and Tasmania in a few weeks time. During his absence his father will look after the business. A brother of Mr. Gillespie has a bakery business in the sister colony, and reports doing well. Miss Moore, from the Public School, North Parramatta, has taken Miss Hebblewhite's place at the local school, the latter having been recently transferred to Windsor at her own request. Miss Moore is not a stranger amongst us, having been stationed here before for a considerable time. Much regret was expressed by the teachers and scholars of the Parramatta School at the departure of Miss Moore, who was a great favourite. The old saying "kissing runs by favour" is fully exemplified in the case of some of our district school teachers. So long as a man is content to be kept down, and hidden away in the bush, so long will the Department keep him there. Mr. A. J. Owens, the popular teacher at the Cattai School, has been pegging away for years, and it never seems to come to his turn for a promotion or change for the better. When a man has the qualifications to entitle him to a better school, and we understand Mr. Owens has, why not give it to him ? It is like all the other Departments - too much redtapeison [sic] carried on. The local Public School appears have been totally neglected by the Department, as far as repairs are concerned. There don't seem to have been anything done to it for years, despite the fact that the matter has come before them more than once lately. We hear also from some of the residents that the underground tank has not been receiving any water for some time, owing to the defective state of the connecting pipes. The District Inspector must surely know that such a state of things exist, and should have it brought before the Department. The Pitt Town Butter Factory is now a thing of the past. The machinery was recently removed to Sydney by the owner. The building now stands empty and idle. Whatever came over people at Pitt Town that they couldn't support what promised to be a flourishing industry. Perhaps they are too conservative, and think they should not depart from the go-as-you-please state pf things carried on by their grandfathers. It would surely pay the residents to keep one or two rattling good cows, as most of them have farms and the waste therefrom could be utilised. If the matter had been taken up in the proper way, we feel sure there would have been a flourishing factory in Pitt Town to-day.

To Jenny and Jonathan, many thanks for this info judy from tassie

Of interest, The historian James Jervis writes ' The quantity of (tobacco) leaf grown in 1844 was 330,000 pounds and of this quantity Boydell had purchased about 160,000 pounds....Boydell , who was the oldest and largest manufacturer had purchased about half the crop which was to be expected to yield about 112,00 pounds of manufactured tobacco. His product sold at about an average price of one shilling per pound.' Source: Jervis, James. The Hunter Valley A century of Its History. RAHS Vol. XXXIX . 1953. Part 3. Htioi Terry

Hi Maureen I have been following your articles forever, and truly appreciate your effort. However, I was wondering if you had access to articles around the 1889 - 1890 era? The reason I ask is this: Marcella Ada HAYES (my maternal ggrandmother) was born in Windsor in 1869 to James HAYES and Mary Ann GALLAGHER. I know they never left the district, but I have never found anything on Marcella for the time leading up to her marriage. Franz HELMRICH arrived in Sydney on the "KAISER WILHELM" when it berthed 29Nov1889. He married Marcella 11Oct1890 - just 10 months later, but their first baby was born 04Mar1891 - thus if baby is full term, would say they knew each other by June 1890 (within 7 months of his arrival). So that limits my time span to 7 months from 29Nov1889.... How did they meet, when Marcella was in the Windsor area, and Franz was a musician in the Sydney area? Did one of the Sydney orchestras play in the Windsor area between 29Nov1889 and Jun1990? Did Marcella travel to Sydney to attend one of the recitals? >From your transcripts, I would think that you had a good understanding of the early life of the area, and might have some knowledge of whether the young women left the Widnsor area to work in the Sydney area, or even perhaps, Rookwood area. How far would Rookwood have been in travel time from Sydney or Windsor? Indeed, he may not have been with an orchestra. His marriage certificates cites his occupation as - Teacher, Age 24 of Sydney (music teacher?) (and she was unemployed) In 1896, he is a Farmer, Age 30 of Freemans Reach whilst In 1903, he is a Superintendent Life Assurance Co., of `Norwood' Doris St, N Syd However, I know that he played with various orchestras in Sydney, and was one of their solo violinist. (principal violinist - as was his sons in future years). But for now, my query realtes to how these two people would have meet in the time and districts that they resided. Any help appreciated. Lorrae Glenore Grove Qld 4342 http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=helmrich

I think you will find that Jo was asking about the Budworth / Budsworth family - not the Buttsworth family..... although both have connections with the Thomas and Jane Rose family. regards Lesley Uebel mailto:[email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Heather . Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 9:53 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HHHV] AUS-NSW-HILLS-HAWKESBURY-HUNTER-VALLEY Digest, Vol 1,Issue 8 Hi all I have the Buttsworth family tree and as I only have two Josiahs' and not a single Joseph. Henry Buttworth married Sarah Rose daughter of Thomas Rose and Jane Topp, 8 Nov 1813 in Windsor NSW Cheers Heather

Hi all I have the Buttsworth family tree and as I only have two Josiahs' and not a single Joseph. Henry Buttworth married Sarah Rose daughter of Thomas Rose and Jane Topp, 8 Nov 1813 in Windsor NSW Cheers Heather >From: "Jann Parkes" <[email protected]> >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [HHHV] AUS-NSW-HILLS-HAWKESBURY-HUNTER-VALLEY Digest, Vol >1,Issue 8 >Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 09:02:07 +1000 > >HI Jo, >I've been compiling my step dad's Buttsworth tree this year - Henry >Buttsworth m Sarah Rose 1813, but I haven't seen a Joseph and Kitty at all! > >Lots of Buttsworths ... no Joseph ... very curious! What era are we talking >about for your Joseph? >Kind regards, >Jann Sutton Parkes > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] >[mailto:[email protected]] On >Behalf Of [email protected] >Sent: Sunday, 24 September 2006 5:16 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: AUS-NSW-HILLS-HAWKESBURY-HUNTER-VALLEY Digest, Vol 1, Issue 8 > > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: AUS-NSW-HILLS-HAWKESBURY-HUNTER-VALLEY Digest, Vol 1, > Issue 7 (Jo Rose) > 2. unscribe (Jeanette) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 17:59:00 +1000 >From: "Jo Rose" <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [HHHV] AUS-NSW-HILLS-HAWKESBURY-HUNTER-VALLEY Digest, Vol > 1, Issue 7 >To: [email protected] >Message-ID: <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >does anyone have any knowledge of Jospeh Budsworth & his wife Kitty >thanks >Jo Rose > > > >From: [email protected] > >Reply-To: [email protected] > >To: [email protected] > >Subject: AUS-NSW-HILLS-HAWKESBURY-HUNTER-VALLEY Digest, Vol 1, Issue 7 > >Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 01:13:12 -0600 > > > > > > > >Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Matilda G Potts (Judi Potts) > > 2. Re: Matilda G Potts (Patricia Hayward) > > > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >Message: 1 > >Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 18:54:48 +1000 > >From: "Judi Potts" <[email protected]> > >Subject: [HHHV] Matilda G Potts > >To: <[email protected]> > >Message-ID: <[email protected]> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > >Hi > >Does anyone have any knowledge on Matilda G. Potts of Windsor, said to >have > > >married James Henry Strachan in 1881? > > > >Thanks Judi Potts > > > >------------------------------ > > > >Message: 2 > >Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 10:24:40 +1000 > >From: "Patricia Hayward" <[email protected]> > >Subject: Re: [HHHV] Matilda G Potts > >To: <[email protected]> > >Message-ID: <[email protected]> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > >She is in my family tree. Contact me privately at [email protected] and >I'll > > >send you a chart. The adsl is lower case ADSL > >Patricia, Australia > > > > > > > >Hi > >Does anyone have any knowledge on Matilda G. Potts of Windsor, said to >have > > >married James Henry Strachan in 1881? > > > >Thanks Judi Potts > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >[email protected] with the word > >'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >message > > > > > > > >------------------------------ > > > >To contact the AUS-NSW-HILLS-HAWKESBURY-HUNTER-VALLEY list administrator, > >send an email to > >[email protected] > > > >To post a message to the AUS-NSW-HILLS-HAWKESBURY-HUNTER-VALLEY mailing > >list, send an email to >[email protected] > > > >__________________________________________________________ > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >[email protected] > >with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the >body > >of the > >email with no additional text. > > > > > >End of AUS-NSW-HILLS-HAWKESBURY-HUNTER-VALLEY Digest, Vol 1, Issue 7 > >******************************************************************** > > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 18:23:35 +1000 >From: "Jeanette" <[email protected]> >Subject: [HHHV] unscribe >To: "[email protected] com" > <[email protected]> >Message-ID: <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > > >------------------------------ > >To contact the AUS-NSW-HILLS-HAWKESBURY-HUNTER-VALLEY list administrator, >send an email to >[email protected] > >To post a message to the AUS-NSW-HILLS-HAWKESBURY-HUNTER-VALLEY mailing >list, send an email to [email protected] > >__________________________________________________________ >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] >with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body >of the >email with no additional text. > > >End of AUS-NSW-HILLS-HAWKESBURY-HUNTER-VALLEY Digest, Vol 1, Issue 8 >******************************************************************** > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word >'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jude, Further to Jenny's earlier comments - Camyr Allyn is the name of the original land grant that Charles Boydell acquired in 1826. The ruins of the original homestead is still located on the property, overlooking the Allyn River just out of East Gresford on the Allyn River Road. We had the privilege of meeting the current owner John Evers on a recent holiday in the area. John operates 'Camyr Allyn Wines' from the property today. John's contact details can be found on his winery website. If you have access to Google Earth, plug in the following coordinates for the property (-32.419638, 151.551676) Regards, Jonathan

If you put Camyr Allyn into Google you will find it is a homestead near East Gresford in the Hunter Valley. ..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:- ¸.·´ .·´¨¨)) ((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:- -:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*.` Jenny McCarthy Brightwaters N.S.W. on beautiful Lake Macquarie

Good morning, Can anyone help me with this name please. It is listed as an abode for my ancestors Joseph and Eliza Owen in 1842. Is it the name of a house or is it an area. Would appreciate any help on this please Judy in Tassy