We are seeking descendants of Lloyd Aloysius O'TOOLE, b 1894 Mandurama NSW, marr Rose May CARR 1926 Chatswood NSW, d 4 Jun 1944 Randwick NSW. Children were Aileen, Reginald, Harold-Bradman and Irene. Lloyd O'TOOLE has links to the central coast. He is the brother of Cec (John) O'Toole of Lisarow and Sommersby (1890-1971), and son of Jim O'TOOLE (1857-1919) of Narrara and North Gosford. We have lost track with Lloyd's branch of the family and would like to make contact. Any clues appreciated. Brian and Lyn Walsh (O'Toole) -- Brian Walsh at Martins Creek NSW (Reseaching all who worked on 'Tocal' near Paterson NSW)

Hello Pat, Thanks for this idea. I don't think Christopher Robley was in the military, but I guess you never know til you've checked everything. Here is an extract from L.L. Robson: "The Convict Settlers of Australia" (p.124): "A final case that illustrates the varied careers of New South Wales convicts concerns Christopher Robley, transported from Cumberland in 1810 for larceny. Five years later he married Mary Cummins, aged twenty, and free, in Sydney, and apparently worked as a Ticket-of-Leave blacksmith, the trade he followed in England. By 1821 he had been conditionally pardoned, and was a sawyer in Sydney, but in 1821 he had become a Sheriff's Officer, living at Clarence Street with his wife and five children." His father-in-law John Cummins was a Private in the 73rd Regiment, which came to Sydney in 1810 with Governor Macquarie. John Cummins's son Alexander was also attached to the 73rd. So there were military connections in the family. Christopher died at Windmill Hill, Sydney in 1838. Thanks for your interest, John Ross Albury, NSW -----Original Message----- From: Patricia Wilder <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Date: Monday, 11 September 2000 12:18 Subject: rewriting of history >Keep researching - I've heard from somewhere that some comvicts became >members of the military after arriving at Sydney Cove. So maybe there is an >element of truth in both stories >Regards >PatW > > >============================== >Genealogy calendars, guestbooks and more: >Visit RootsWeb's Resource Center at >http://resources.rootsweb.com/ >

Daniel Berry did have a brother, John, who was transported on the ship "JOHN' in 1829 for fourteen (14) years for stealing fowls. They were both Sawyers. They both were granted T.O.Ls based on the Brtisbane Waters district and were issued with Certificates of Freedom in 1843/1844. In correspondence to the Colonial Secretary, 1847, a John Berry, Sawyer, and his family, plus his brother and his family were located at Gosford. My Grandfather John Berry, a Sawyer, was born to a John Berry, a Sawyer, and a Jane Fletcher in 1851 at Brisbane Waters. I have not been able to locate Jane Fletcher and/or her association with the above John Berry (or any other John Berry) in order to establish the family linkage. I suspect that she may have died after my Grandfathers birth as his mother is listed as being Elizabeth (Murund ?) on his marriage certificate in 1875. However, Jane Fletcher is the key to my family line. Does anyone have any knowledge of her? My Grandfather, John Berry, is reported as being involved in the management/ownership of sawmills in northern NSW and south east Queensland in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Is the any records of the Jarrett /Daniel Berry families being involved in the timber industry in these areas. Regards Scott Matthews Caloundra Queensland email: [email protected]

To Leith Davis re Jarrett: Sorry Leith, a slip of the brain in my reply to you on the 14th: I meant to comment that the William Jarrett in the Certs of Freedom must have been a bit old if he was the man who married Margaret in 1847 (not Esther). Best wishes, Gwen

Hi! Leone I was wondering what line of Wells you are researching. I'm a descendant of Thomas Wells & Martha Shaw. Val Armfield Casino, N.S.W. Australia

Scott Matthews re John Berry: Dear Scott, I believe you are interested in the Berry family. Please see discussions with Leith Davis in this and previous. There was a John Berry in the Gosford district, mentioned many times in the Bench Books and Court Cases of Brisbane Water (1826-1874). Cannot tell you if he had any connection with Daniel. Daniel Berry died in the Gosford district on 21.2.1885 aged 76. (C of E records, which note that he came out in 1829 on "John" of London). The latter is correct when checked on the site for Certificates of Freedom mentioned in reply to Leith Davis. I see your problem with John Berry as there are a number of men with this name in the above index. Best wishes, Gwen

Leith Davis re Jarrett: Dear Leith, I seem to be hogging the messages, but here goes: There is a George Jarrett listed in the Gosford area, but I have nothing on him. However, like others of the Jarretts and Berrys, he features in the index to the Brisbane Water Bench Books and Court Cases (1826-1874) made in 1990 by Gosford District Local History Study Group. The original records are on microfilm at Gosford City Library, so I guess they are also at the NSW State Library etc. George is listed in some respect in 1863. A William Jarrett shows up in the State Records of NSW, Index to Certificates of Freedom 1823-1869 as having come 1817 on "Sir William Bensley". Cert of Freedom dated 10.8.1826. This would make him pretty old to be married to Esther, but not unusual? The Index is at http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/asp/cf.asp Regards, Gwen

Leith Davis re Jarrett and White: Dear Leith, You mentioned a possible connection between Lucy White and Robert J. White of Gosford. When his mother died on 28.10.1917 (Margaret White 86, daughter of Robert Creighton and born in Ireland, married Robert White when she was 22) the children listed as being alive at the time included Lucinda 38. Regards, Gwen Dundon

Dear Leith, Re the Jarretts of Gosford: I thought I could contact a lady who knew a bit about this family, but she seems to have moved away somewhere. Church of England records for Gosford show the following: Marriage of William JARRETT to Margaret Woods, bach and spinster, with consent of parents, on 2.9.1847. Witnesses Esther Berry and Daniel Berry of East Gosford. Re the Berrys: Daniel Berry married Esther Jarrett with consent of parent or guardian on 25.12.1846, witnesses being Thomas Battley of East Gosford and William Jarrett of Erina. To William and Margaret GERRETT of Erina, on 15.11.1847 a son Charles, father a sawyer. Also George and (?) Henry b. 14.4.1849, father a Gosford sawyer. To William and Margaret JARRETT: Thomas b. 22.5.1851, father East Gosford sawyer. James Frederick b. 18.8.1853, father an Erina sawyer [died 25.8.1854 aged 1 year, buried Pt Frederick cemetery, Gosford, now called Pioneer Park] Emma Eliza b. 11.6.1855, father Erina sawyer Amelia Esther, b. 12.5.1857, father Erina sawyer Caroline Theresa b. 25.6.1859, father Erina sawyer Jarrett Street runs between Bradys Gully Road and Kinarra Ave, crossing Maidens Brush Road, and is close to North Gosford Private Hospital. By the way, a Charles Jarrett, cedar agent, is listed on several pages in the index to Louise Tiffany Daley's book "Men and a River, Richmond River District 1828-1895" - maybe the same born to William and Margaret? Timber sap seems to run in your family's veins, Leith! Best regards, Gwen Dundon

Dear Rhonda, re Benjamin Cooper: He was indeed born on 3 May 1839 to George and Jane Cooper, father "Brisbane Water settler", Church of England records for Gosford. Nothing else lurking in my files though, sorry. Best wishes, Gwen Dundon

Thank you Gwen for that information, I have to try to tie it in. Have found out that my stepmother's father was Horace M. Jarrett, born to George Jarrett and Lucy C White in 1903. I'm not sure who George's parents were, in the BDMs there is a George W, a George R, a George Joseph and only one plain George born around the right time. The "plain George" was born in 1879, makes him awfully young to have married in 1896. I'm also wondering now if Lucy C White is related to Robert White who married Bertha Davis. That would mean that there was a connection by marriage three generations ago, and the world is getting smaller every day..... re the timber connection - it gets worse - on my mother's side I'm related to most of the timber families on the south coast. My mum always said that we have sawdust instead of blood in our veins! There isn't much hope for us if even my stepmother, who has always been the outsider from the city (my poor stepmother!), comes from a timber family. (By the way, my 19 year old son, who has been raised in Canberra, Darwin and Adelaide, only fleetingly seen a sawmill and never been out in the bush, has just spent every available spare minute at the woodchopping arena at the Adelaide Show - there really isn't any hope) best regards Leith -----Original Message----- From: Gwen Dundon [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, 12 September 2000 11:38 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: AUS-NSW-CENTRAL-COAST-D Digest V00 #15 Dear Leith, Re the Jarretts of Gosford: I thought I could contact a lady who knew a bit about this family, but she seems to have moved away somewhere. Church of England records for Gosford show the following: Marriage of William JARRETT to Margaret Woods, bach and spinster, with consent of parents, on 2.9.1847. Witnesses Esther Berry and Daniel Berry of East Gosford. Re the Berrys: Daniel Berry married Esther Jarrett with consent of parent or guardian on 25.12.1846, witnesses being Thomas Battley of East Gosford and William Jarrett of Erina. To William and Margaret GERRETT of Erina, on 15.11.1847 a son Charles, father a sawyer. Also George and (?) Henry b. 14.4.1849, father a Gosford sawyer. To William and Margaret JARRETT: Thomas b. 22.5.1851, father East Gosford sawyer. James Frederick b. 18.8.1853, father an Erina sawyer [died 25.8.1854 aged 1 year, buried Pt Frederick cemetery, Gosford, now called Pioneer Park] Emma Eliza b. 11.6.1855, father Erina sawyer Amelia Esther, b. 12.5.1857, father Erina sawyer Caroline Theresa b. 25.6.1859, father Erina sawyer Jarrett Street runs between Bradys Gully Road and Kinarra Ave, crossing Maidens Brush Road, and is close to North Gosford Private Hospital. By the way, a Charles Jarrett, cedar agent, is listed on several pages in the index to Louise Tiffany Daley's book "Men and a River, Richmond River District 1828-1895" - maybe the same born to William and Margaret? Timber sap seems to run in your family's veins, Leith! Best regards, Gwen Dundon ============================== Genealogy calendars, guestbooks and more: Visit RootsWeb's Resource Center at http://resources.rootsweb.com/

Keep researching - I've heard from somewhere that some comvicts became members of the military after arriving at Sydney Cove. So maybe there is an element of truth in both stories Regards PatW

Thomas Bates apparently did join more than one regiment in Australia - after he served his time? I don't have the details with me here at work. Leith -----Original Message----- From: Patricia Wilder [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, 11 September 2000 12:46 To: [email protected] Subject: rewriting of history Keep researching - I've heard from somewhere that some comvicts became members of the military after arriving at Sydney Cove. So maybe there is an element of truth in both stories Regards PatW ============================== Genealogy calendars, guestbooks and more: Visit RootsWeb's Resource Center at http://resources.rootsweb.com/

I've also found some 'rewriting' of histories. Thomas Bates was my gggggrandfather - according to the Register of Pioneer Families he arrived as a soldier, and his headstone said "of 102nd Regiment of Foot", but according to Second Fleet Families, its been established that he came on the Neptune in 1790 as a young convict. Leith Davis Adelaide -----Original Message----- From: John Ross [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, 10 September 2000 20:29 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: AUS-NSW-CENTRAL-COAST-D Digest V00 #5 Hello Gwen, Many thanks for the leads you've suggested. And thanks also for the extract from Morrison's Aldine History, dealing with John Robley. It's very interesting, but not quite accurate. At least not accurate in respect of John Robley's grandfather. Rather than being "a Life Guardsman" who "subsequently enlisted in an infantry regiment which came to Sydney about 1816", he was the convict Christopher Robley, who arrived aboard the "Indian" in 1810. He had been sentenced to death, but was transported for life, so Morrison got the "Life" part of it right! I seem to remember reading somewhere that the biographical entries in Morrison's "Aldine Histories" of the various Australian colonies were (at least in some case) written by the subjects themselves, thus leaving open to question the accuracy of the entries. Can anyone confirm that this was the case? Best wishes, John Ross Albury, NSW -----Original Message----- From: Gwen Dundon <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Date: Sunday, 10 September 2000 17:01 Subject: Re: AUS-NSW-CENTRAL-COAST-D Digest V00 #5 >Sorry, can't help on McPherson Estate. Have you tried contacting Wyong >Shire Council, 16 Hely St, Wyong, ph. (02) 4350 5555 (Phil Morley might >know, as he is involved in local history outside his work there). Try also >Wyong Museum and Historical Society, Alison Homestead, 51 Cape Road, Wyong. > >In case you do not have it, I am sending below John Robley's profile from >the Gosford section of Vol 2 of the Aldine Centennial History of NSW, 1888 >(Morrison). He was licensee of the Union Hotel in Gosford at the time. > >Best wishes, >Gwen Dundon > >JOHN GEORGE ROBLEY, Union Hotel, is a native of New South Wales and was born >at Kelso in 1843. Receiving his early training at the same place, he is >1855 settled in Gosford and worked the first mill erected in Brisbane Water. >He next visited the Tambaroora Goldfields, returning to Brisbane Water in >1873, where he has remained ever since, helping in true pioneer manner >towards the development of the district's resources. In 1864 he married the >daughter of Mr Ramsden of Stockport, by whom he is the father of one >daughter. In 1885 he secured possession of the Union Hotel, which was then >newly built, and he now carries on a very successful trade. Mr Robley is >widely known as a sterling good fellow and a genial host. He has been >selected to fill the office of a road trustee, holds the position of >secretary to the Gosford Cricket Club, and shows anxiety for the furtherance >of local progress. With respect to the parentage of Mr Robley, it might be >mentioned that his father and mother were born in Sydney. His grandfather >was a Life Guardsman, and subsequently enlisted in an infantry regiment >which came to Sydney about 1816. He belongs to the Church of England. >[ends] ============================== Personalized Mailing Lists: never miss a connection again. http://pml.rootsweb.com/ Brought to you by RootsWeb.com.

Hi everyone I am a new member to your list. Some of my ancestors were among early settlers to Long Jetty, others were on the Toukley side of the lake & up to Dungog (not sure if you go that far up) so heres my list of names. JENNETT BROTHERS MEARES EVANS WELLS WARD DANDRIDGE LAUNDER KEILLER HILL Thanks in anticipation Leone

Hello Gwen, Many thanks for the leads you've suggested. And thanks also for the extract from Morrison's Aldine History, dealing with John Robley. It's very interesting, but not quite accurate. At least not accurate in respect of John Robley's grandfather. Rather than being "a Life Guardsman" who "subsequently enlisted in an infantry regiment which came to Sydney about 1816", he was the convict Christopher Robley, who arrived aboard the "Indian" in 1810. He had been sentenced to death, but was transported for life, so Morrison got the "Life" part of it right! I seem to remember reading somewhere that the biographical entries in Morrison's "Aldine Histories" of the various Australian colonies were (at least in some case) written by the subjects themselves, thus leaving open to question the accuracy of the entries. Can anyone confirm that this was the case? Best wishes, John Ross Albury, NSW -----Original Message----- From: Gwen Dundon <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Date: Sunday, 10 September 2000 17:01 Subject: Re: AUS-NSW-CENTRAL-COAST-D Digest V00 #5 >Sorry, can't help on McPherson Estate. Have you tried contacting Wyong >Shire Council, 16 Hely St, Wyong, ph. (02) 4350 5555 (Phil Morley might >know, as he is involved in local history outside his work there). Try also >Wyong Museum and Historical Society, Alison Homestead, 51 Cape Road, Wyong. > >In case you do not have it, I am sending below John Robley's profile from >the Gosford section of Vol 2 of the Aldine Centennial History of NSW, 1888 >(Morrison). He was licensee of the Union Hotel in Gosford at the time. > >Best wishes, >Gwen Dundon > >JOHN GEORGE ROBLEY, Union Hotel, is a native of New South Wales and was born >at Kelso in 1843. Receiving his early training at the same place, he is >1855 settled in Gosford and worked the first mill erected in Brisbane Water. >He next visited the Tambaroora Goldfields, returning to Brisbane Water in >1873, where he has remained ever since, helping in true pioneer manner >towards the development of the district's resources. In 1864 he married the >daughter of Mr Ramsden of Stockport, by whom he is the father of one >daughter. In 1885 he secured possession of the Union Hotel, which was then >newly built, and he now carries on a very successful trade. Mr Robley is >widely known as a sterling good fellow and a genial host. He has been >selected to fill the office of a road trustee, holds the position of >secretary to the Gosford Cricket Club, and shows anxiety for the furtherance >of local progress. With respect to the parentage of Mr Robley, it might be >mentioned that his father and mother were born in Sydney. His grandfather >was a Life Guardsman, and subsequently enlisted in an infantry regiment >which came to Sydney about 1816. He belongs to the Church of England. >[ends]

Sorry, can't help on McPherson Estate. Have you tried contacting Wyong Shire Council, 16 Hely St, Wyong, ph. (02) 4350 5555 (Phil Morley might know, as he is involved in local history outside his work there). Try also Wyong Museum and Historical Society, Alison Homestead, 51 Cape Road, Wyong. In case you do not have it, I am sending below John Robley's profile from the Gosford section of Vol 2 of the Aldine Centennial History of NSW, 1888 (Morrison). He was licensee of the Union Hotel in Gosford at the time. Best wishes, Gwen Dundon JOHN GEORGE ROBLEY, Union Hotel, is a native of New South Wales and was born at Kelso in 1843. Receiving his early training at the same place, he is 1855 settled in Gosford and worked the first mill erected in Brisbane Water. He next visited the Tambaroora Goldfields, returning to Brisbane Water in 1873, where he has remained ever since, helping in true pioneer manner towards the development of the district's resources. In 1864 he married the daughter of Mr Ramsden of Stockport, by whom he is the father of one daughter. In 1885 he secured possession of the Union Hotel, which was then newly built, and he now carries on a very successful trade. Mr Robley is widely known as a sterling good fellow and a genial host. He has been selected to fill the office of a road trustee, holds the position of secretary to the Gosford Cricket Club, and shows anxiety for the furtherance of local progress. With respect to the parentage of Mr Robley, it might be mentioned that his father and mother were born in Sydney. His grandfather was a Life Guardsman, and subsequently enlisted in an infantry regiment which came to Sydney about 1816. He belongs to the Church of England. [ends] --

Hello Rhonda, Many thanks for pointing me in the direction of these URLs. I knew the Royal Hotel, Wyong photograph, but didn't realise that it was on the net, and that copies were available to purchase. Re the Robleys listed in the pioneer register. How do you find the contact details of researchers interested in those names? Thanks again, John Ross Albury, NSW -----Original Message----- From: Rhonda Paine <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Date: Saturday, 9 September 2000 12:30 Subject: McPherson Estate, Wyong >Hi Marg, John and all > >Don't know what your original request was John but presume it to be about >McPherson Estate at Wyong. I can't help you with that but I did find a >drawing of the Royal Hotel in Wyong which was built by John Robley and >opened in 1889 see > >http://www.ccrdc.org.au/libphoto/photohtmls/sv1p50.htm > >Also noticed that there were 3 people interested in ROBLEY name in members >list for Gosford Pioneers in the CC Family History Group's site > >http://www.terrigal.net.au/~ccfhg/poineersp-z.html > >Hope the above is helpful. > >Rhonda Paine - [email protected] > 211 George Downes Drive >Central Mangrove NSW Australia 2250 > Ph: 02 43731033 Fax: 02 43731404

Lynette Fiddick wrote >Hello again John, > >I found the following information in A Pictorial History of the Wyong Shire, Vol 5, Edward Stinson, published by Wyong Shire Council 1984, page 84: > >Under a photograph showing the original traffic bridge across the Wyong Creek outside Wyong it reads: >Looking south nearly eighty years ago, showing the original traffic bridge and the heavily timbered area (known as McPherson's Brush) to the west of Tuggerah Straight. >This brush was largely swampy and a breeding ground for a great number of water birds - wild ducks, redbills, swans, egrets and the like. >That whole area was known to the pioneers as the McPherson estate". > >Sorry it took so long, but these volumes are not indexed. >Now that you know the general location, I suggest a modern map of the area would help you to pinpoint the area more precisely. > >'Bye for now >Lynne Lynne, Thanks so much for this lovely piece of information. What a beautiful description of the place. My mother was very fortunate to be born there! Your help is very much appreciated, John Ross Albury, NSW

Hello again John, I found the following information in A Pictorial History of the Wyong Shire, Vol 5, Edward Stinson, published by Wyong Shire Council 1984, page 84: Under a photograph showing the original traffic bridge across the Wyong Creek outside Wyong it reads: Looking south nearly eighty years ago, showing the original traffic bridge and the heavily timbered area (known as McPherson's Brush) to the west of Tuggerah Straight. This brush was largely swampy and a breeding ground for a great number of water birds - wild ducks, redbills, swans, egrets and the like. That whole area was known to the pioneers as the McPherson estate". Sorry it took so long, but these volumes are not indexed. Now that you know the general location, I suggest a modern map of the area would help you to pinpoint the area more precisely. 'Bye for now Lynne ___________________________________________ Lynnette Fiddick Central Coast of New South Wales, AUSTRALIA [email protected] ____________________________________________