Hi Maureen, Re "Ther name was moved south-west when a village grew up in the area around the later railway station" - nup, the railway line dragged the name SE, not SW. There's been a great deal of confusion about it all. That's why I am trying to find the early newspaper article I've been told about (haven't seen it myself). Apparently the question got posed where was the original Blacks Town and the newspaper article proclaimed it had been near the Blacktown Showground (which is just a little west of the railway-line-dragged Blacktown name). Re "1848 Blacks' Town was a deserted village", not exactly - the school was deserted by the grants land (Colebee grant) was lived on by descendants ..... Maria Lock's descendants (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yarramundi [1] or see http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/lock-maria-13050 [2], or http://www.dictionaryofsydney.org/entry/lock_maria [3] ) lived there till about 1916 (maybe even later but in ca. 1916 the Government resumed the land). Maria's descendants, who today call themselves Darug (viz.  http://www.darug.org.au [4] ) sometimes call this the "double theft" of their land - first time around the time of the 'invasion' of English settlement, and the second time in 1916 when freehold land inherted from Colebee by his sister Maria was resumed. I've been trying to find the government records of 1916 to learn just exactly what did happen - and why. Re "The full and interesting story of the Blacktown Aborigines has never been written .. " this is true.   Where are the records? When I went to the Land Titles Office in Sydney to try and find the resumption records I was told "you'll be lucky" to find anything that long ago. However, 1916 is not entirely ancient history, and the Egyptian hieroglyphs, as well as ancient Summerian writings, preserve info from way back further. If the Egyptians and Summerians could do it then surely our State Records must be capable too. Re "The area is rich in red sandstone", where's that?   Do you have anywhere in mind. The tooks are mostly of silcrete around the Blacks Town and may not be all that old; but not too far further west at Upper Castlereagh,  archaeologist Fr. Eugene Stockton, published about finding an in situ stone tool that was near the base of the gravel layer that underlies all of the alluvial flat there, and which geological work dates as anything between 40 thousand years old, and 80 Ka.   That would *seem* to make the (western) Sydney region have the old known trace of humanity in all of Eastern Austraila.  However many have doubted this find because there is a very large gap between that date and the beginning of a more continuous record from about 22 Ka ago. The Darugs got upset for the third time when Blacktown Council zoned much of Colebee's grant land for the spread of urban development (part of the NW Growth Zone).   And just across the road (across on the western side of Richmond Road) there's currently a sign saying that there will be constructed there an industrial zone bigger than the whole of the Sydney CBD. Big changes since Colebee's time. The Geographic Names Board has put  "Blacks` Town was" of 1821 in which Blacktown, as already noted (i.e. from Pollon's "The Book of Sydney Suburbs", 1988). Land through Rooty Hill - Plumpton - Marsden Park district often has the same parcel of land given a variety of suburb/place names over time.   That's why it can be confusing.   The same person over time may seem to be moving around.   But then again maybe they were not, just that different references to where they lived kept calliing it different place names(?).   Cheers,   John   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ .   ----- Original Message ----- From:[email protected] To: Cc: Sent:Sat, 28 Jul 2012 17:21:50 +1000 Subject:Re: [AUS-NSW] AREA DATES Sorry folks. The book slipped and hit the enter button before I could type further. Hazel, not sure how acurate Frances Pollon's 1988s research into Sydney suburbs is, but may help. Cheers, Maureen What I was going to write was :- Governor Macquarie had what is probably the most understanding attitude to the Aborigines of any of the colony's Governors, and he made several attempts to raise their standard of living. One of his ideas was to grant them land of their own. This was Blacks' Town, established in 1821 in the area of present Plumpton. Ther name was moved south-west when a village grew up in the area around the later railway station. The Native Institution, a school for Aboriginal children, established near Parramatta in 1814, was moved to the same area by Governor Brisbane in 1823.The Native Institution had been established by William Shelley, a missionary who had come from Tahiti, and Mrs. Macquarie is said to have taken a great interest in the scheme, teaching the women and girls sewing and singing. However, the idea gradually failed owing to staff shortages, and the institution closed in 1825. By 1848 Blacks' Town was a deserted village. Todays Blacktown stands on the site of two large grants: 1,200 acres, north of the present station, given to Frederick Garling in 1819, and 2,000 acres given to Robert Lethbridge in 1823. These two properties were subdivided into lots of 6 to 98 acres in the 1850s and 1860s. After 1860, when the railway line came, the suburb showed signs of revival. The station was called Blacktown Road and a small village grew up around it. In the late 1860s Mrs. Chisholm's school was established, and it received Government aid in 1871. A post office was opened in July 1862, the year when the name of the suburb was officially changed to Blacktown. In 1872 the increasing population necissitated the opening of a public school. The area remained semi-rural until after the Second World War. The population explosion of the 1960s turned it into a thriving area, a shopping mecca for nearby suburbs. Blacktown has a number of fine educational institutions, a large hospital and the second largest recreation club in NSW. Blacktown is also the railway junction of the Richmond line, which was opened in 1864. Blacktown Shire Council was first established in 1906 and the first Council Chambers were opened in 1912. The full and interesting story of the Blacktown Aborigines has never been written, because of lack of information about the traditions and culture of the tribes that lived there. The area is rich in red sandstone, and some stone tools have been located over the years. The style of the artifacts already found belongs to the past thousand or more years. On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Hazel Magann wrote: > Good afternoon > I am again hoping to receive some advice or assistance. I am compiling > histories of people who have resided in Blacktown City though not > restricting their biographies to certain years. > > I am having difficulty locating excat dates that the districts received > their official names in Blacktown City. I have checked "The Geographical > Names Board" to come up against a brick wall. I am aware of when the > Housing Estate at Mount Druitt named their Districts but it is the other > areas I require. > > Any help would be most appreciated > > Warm Regards > Hazel E. Magann. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Links: ------ [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yarramundi [2] http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/lock-maria-13050 [3] http://www.dictionaryofsydney.org/entry/lock_maria [4] http://www.darug.org.au

Hi John, And I thought that extract from Frances Pollan's book would help!!! Seems it just opened another can of worms, eh? :>) I lived in the Blacktown area (Quakers Hill and Parklea) from 1975 to 2000 and it was a burning question way back then as well. Cheers, Maureen On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 8:24 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Hi Maureen, > > Re "Ther name was moved south-west when a village grew up in the > area > around the later railway station" - nup, the railway line dragged the > name SE, not SW. > > There's been a great deal of confusion about it all. > > That's why I am trying to find the early newspaper article I've > been > told about (haven't seen it myself). > > Apparently the question got posed where was the original Blacks > Town > and the newspaper article proclaimed it had been near the Blacktown > Showground (which is just a little west of the railway-line-dragged > Blacktown name). > > Re "1848 Blacks' Town was a deserted village", not exactly - the > school was deserted by the grants land (Colebee grant) was lived on by > descendants ..... Maria Lock's descendants (see > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yarramundi [1] or see > http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/lock-maria-13050 [2], or > http://www.dictionaryofsydney.org/entry/lock_maria [3] ) lived there > till about 1916 (maybe even later but in ca. 1916 the Government > resumed the land). > > Maria's descendants, who today call themselves Darug (viz. > http://www.darug.org.au [4] ) sometimes call this the "double theft" > of their land - first time around the time of the 'invasion' of > English settlement, and the second time in 1916 when freehold land > inherted from Colebee by his sister Maria was resumed. > > I've been trying to find the government records of 1916 to learn > just > exactly what did happen - and why. > > Re "The full and interesting story of the Blacktown Aborigines has > never been written .. " this is true. Where are the records? > > When I went to the Land Titles Office in Sydney to try and find the > resumption records I was told "you'll be lucky" to find anything that > long ago. > > However, 1916 is not entirely ancient history, and the Egyptian > hieroglyphs, as well as ancient Summerian writings, preserve info from > way back further. > > If the Egyptians and Summerians could do it then surely our State > Records must be capable too. > > Re "The area is rich in red sandstone", where's that? Do you have > anywhere in mind. > > The tooks are mostly of silcrete around the Blacks Town and may not > be all that old; but not too far further west at Upper Castlereagh, > archaeologist Fr. Eugene Stockton, published about finding an in situ > stone tool that was near the base of the gravel layer that underlies > all of the alluvial flat there, and which geological work dates as > anything between 40 thousand years old, and 80 Ka. That would > *seem* to make the (western) Sydney region have the old known trace of > humanity in all of Eastern Austraila. However many have doubted this > find because there is a very large gap between that date and the > beginning of a more continuous record from about 22 Ka ago. > > The Darugs got upset for the third time when Blacktown Council > zoned > much of Colebee's grant land for the spread of urban development (part > of the NW Growth Zone). And just across the road (across on the > western side of Richmond Road) there's currently a sign saying that > there will be constructed there an industrial zone bigger than the > whole of the Sydney CBD. > > Big changes since Colebee's time. > > The Geographic Names Board has put "Blacks` Town was" of 1821 in > which Blacktown, as already noted (i.e. from Pollon's "The Book of > Sydney Suburbs", 1988). > > Land through Rooty Hill - Plumpton - Marsden Park district often > has > the same parcel of land given a variety of suburb/place names over > time. That's why it can be confusing. The same person over > time may seem to be moving around. But then again maybe they were > not, just that different references to where they lived kept calliing > it different place names(?). > > Cheers, > > > > John > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > . > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From:[email protected] > To: > Cc: > Sent:Sat, 28 Jul 2012 17:21:50 +1000 > Subject:Re: [AUS-NSW] AREA DATES > > Sorry folks. The book slipped and hit the enter button before I could > type > further. > > Hazel, not sure how acurate Frances Pollon's 1988s research into > Sydney > suburbs is, but may help. > > Cheers, Maureen > > What I was going to write was :- > > Governor Macquarie had what is probably the most understanding > attitude to > the Aborigines of any of the colony's Governors, and he made several > attempts to raise their standard of living. One of his ideas was to > grant > them land of their own. This was Blacks' Town, established in 1821 in > the > area of present Plumpton. Ther name was moved south-west when a > village > grew up in the area around the later railway station. The Native > Institution, a school for Aboriginal children, established near > Parramatta > in 1814, was moved to the same area by Governor Brisbane in 1823.The > Native > Institution had been established by William Shelley, a missionary who > had > come from Tahiti, and Mrs. Macquarie is said to have taken a great > interest > in the scheme, teaching the women and girls sewing and singing. > However, > the idea gradually failed owing to staff shortages, and the > institution > closed in 1825. By 1848 Blacks' Town was a deserted village. > > Todays Blacktown stands on the site of two large grants: 1,200 acres, > north > of the present station, given to Frederick Garling in 1819, and 2,000 > acres > given to Robert Lethbridge in 1823. These two properties were > subdivided > into lots of 6 to 98 acres in the 1850s and 1860s. After 1860, when > the > railway line came, the suburb showed signs of revival. The station was > called Blacktown Road and a small village grew up around it. In the > late > 1860s Mrs. Chisholm's school was established, and it received > Government > aid in 1871. A post office was opened in July 1862, the year when the > name > of the suburb was officially changed to Blacktown. In 1872 the > increasing > population necissitated the opening of a public school. > > The area remained semi-rural until after the Second World War. The > population explosion of the 1960s turned it into a thriving area, a > shopping mecca for nearby suburbs. Blacktown has a number of fine > educational institutions, a large hospital and the second largest > recreation club in NSW. Blacktown is also the railway junction of the > Richmond line, which was opened in 1864. Blacktown Shire Council was > first > established in 1906 and the first Council Chambers were opened in > 1912. > > The full and interesting story of the Blacktown Aborigines has never > been > written, because of lack of information about the traditions and > culture of > the tribes that lived there. The area is rich in red sandstone, and > some > stone tools have been located over the years. The style of the > artifacts > already found belongs to the past thousand or more years. > > On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Hazel Magann > wrote: > > > Good afternoon > > I am again hoping to receive some advice or assistance. I am > compiling > > histories of people who have resided in Blacktown City though not > > restricting their biographies to certain years. > > > > I am having difficulty locating excat dates that the districts > received > > their official names in Blacktown City. I have checked "The > Geographical > > Names Board" to come up against a brick wall. I am aware of when the > > Housing Estate at Mount Druitt named their Districts but it is the > other > > areas I require. > > > > Any help would be most appreciated > > > > Warm Regards > > Hazel E. Magann. > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > Links: > ------ > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yarramundi > [2] http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/lock-maria-13050 > [3] http://www.dictionaryofsydney.org/entry/lock_maria > [4] http://www.darug.org.au > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >