Hi I’m trying to find a connection to the above William and Ellen CHARLES who were married in Parramatta in 1860 to my GGGrandfather Alexander CHARLES who married Eliza GAVIN. My Alexander was a stonemason who was overseer to the extensions on Parramatta Gaol, I haven’t found any other projects he was involved in as yet. I’ve looked on the BDM for events in William and Ellen’s lives and found their marriage in 1860 and it seems they may have had 4 children NOWLAN, b 1861 died 1861, MARY A b 1865 and ISABELLA b 1870. There was a death in 1924 of a JAMES to William and Ellen but I have not found his birth. I thought that these two could be cousins perhaps ie William and Alexander of course maybe no relation at all but would love to know. When I look on Trove for information it’s a bit difficult re the William and Charles being christen names I can’t seem to find anything with the CHARLES surname. Anyway if anyone can suggest how to find out a bit more on William and Ellen that would be great. Alexander Charles came to Australia (Victoria) on the NORWOOD from Scotland in 1854. Apparently whilst living in the Glebe area apparently was reported as not paying child support for a baby he had fathered, don’t know what happened to that child. Kindest regards and many thanks Dianna

Bought any transcription Dianna for their deaths, gone through trove, the state archives of NSW, looked in other states for births..I do have a sub for ancestry but I don't put credit on trees on line. Jenelle. -----Original Message----- From: aus-nsw-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-nsw-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of dianna charles via Sent: Sunday, 22 February 2015 1:07 PM To: aus-nsw@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-NSW] William CHARLES and Ellen NOWLAN Hi I’m trying to find a connection to the above William and Ellen CHARLES who were married in Parramatta in 1860 to my GGGrandfather Alexander CHARLES who married Eliza GAVIN. My Alexander was a stonemason who was overseer to the extensions on Parramatta Gaol, I haven’t found any other projects he was involved in as yet. I’ve looked on the BDM for events in William and Ellen’s lives and found their marriage in 1860 and it seems they may have had 4 children NOWLAN, b 1861 died 1861, MARY A b 1865 and ISABELLA b 1870. There was a death in 1924 of a JAMES to William and Ellen but I have not found his birth. I thought that these two could be cousins perhaps ie William and Alexander of course maybe no relation at all but would love to know. When I look on Trove for information it’s a bit difficult re the William and Charles being christen names I can’t seem to find anything with the CHARLES surname. Anyway if anyone can suggest how to find out a bit more on William and Ellen that would be great. Alexander Charles came to Australia (Victoria) on the NORWOOD from Scotland in 1854. Apparently whilst living in the Glebe area apparently was reported as not paying child support for a baby he had fathered, don’t know what happened to that child. Kindest regards and many thanks Dianna ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-NSW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Interesting Marg, the two Public Trees on Ancestry are both wrong, James Stevenson who died in 1945 was born in Ireland not Berrima NSW or Ayrshire. More examples of sloppy research. Regards Kerrie -----Original Message----- From: MargM via Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2015 12:40 PM To: Kathleen ; aus-nsw@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-NSW] Wills query ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathleen via" <aus-nsw@rootsweb.com> To: "Susie Zada" <szada@zades.com.au>; <aus-nsw@rootsweb.com>; "'Kerriea'" <kerriea@aapt.net.au> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2015 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [AUS-NSW] Wills query > Thanks Susie for your reply. It does help. The wills I have > been looking > at were in the late 1800s. > Hi Kathleen. Those 2 weren't ............. Were in the 1940s ? FWIW this STEVENSON couple of are Ancestrys public trees Bye MargM Beautiful NSW Central Coast ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5646 / Virus Database: 4293/9152 - Release Date: 02/20/15 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-NSW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Nivard & Susie Thank you very much for your replies which were a great help. I've rechecked the wills and James Stevenson's stated he left the residue of his estate to his executor and trustee (Perpetual Trustee Co) and this was called his residuary trust fund. His wife was to have the income from this trust during her lifetime. So I am assuming after his wife's death his Irish siblings received their inheritance. Thanks, I have learnt a lot from your replies. Regards Kerrie -----Original Message----- From: Susie Zada Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2015 9:02 AM To: 'Kathleen' ; aus-nsw@rootsweb.com ; 'Kerriea' Subject: RE: [AUS-NSW] Wills query Hi Kerrie and Kathleen, Addressing a couple of questions raised by each of you: As stated by Nivard, the distribution is in the control of the Executors and depends completely on the actual wording of the will. There are MANY occasions when peoples' wills were very generous in their bequests etc. but by the time of their death and probate being granted, often didn't have the assets they were giving away. If funds or items were left IN TRUST for, ie. Siblings instead of wife, then those items are specifically transferred into a trust or held by the Executors / Trustees. So if a wife later died and her estate included a large sum of money, that sum would NOT include items held by the Executors or Trustees. If it was property [real estate] that was held in Trust, then the title of that property was never transferred to the wife and again would not be part of her estate. If you spend time following the ownership on specific property you will find the title sits in the name of the Executors or Trustees until the interim beneficiary has died and the title is then legally transferred to the next stated beneficiary. If the original will didn't use the right words to ensure that their wishes would be carried out [ie. that items were only for the USE of a person during their lifetime] then not a lot can / could be done. If the Executors / Trustees didn't act according to the original will, then you can always try contesting based on that but good luck - these often long drawn out cases are what makes the legal fraternity very rich. Kathleen, unless there are GOVERNMENT legal documents required for the transfer of items [Land Titles, Motor Vehicle Ownership etc.] then it's very difficult to identify. You would need to find non-government documents - i.e. solicitor's correspondence, bank account details etc. etc. In Victoria, the Probate Files give more details than I have found in New South Wales ones. Often an extremely detailed Inventory of Assets and a list of Distribution of all assets. Hope that helps with the explanations. Regards ...... Susie Zada -----Original Message----- From: aus-nsw-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-nsw-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kathleen via Sent: Friday, 20 February 2015 11:58 PM To: Kerriea; aus-nsw@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-NSW] Wills query Is there anywhere I can find out what people actually got from a will. A couple of wills I read said that after the wife died the remainder of the estate would be sold and divided equally amongst the remaining family. Thanks Kathleen. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerriea via" <aus-nsw@rootsweb.com> To: <aus-nsw@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2015 2:56 PM Subject: [AUS-NSW] Wills query > Hi > > I have been looking at some of the NSW wills available on Find My Past and > am curious about a couple of wills and hope someone may be able to assist > me. A James Stevenson died childless in 1945 and left an estate of > almost £27,000. He left various bequests to charitable organisations and > the bulk of his estate went to his wife Constance. The will stated that > at her death any money remaining was to be divided between his surviving > siblings or their children in Ireland. > > Constance Stevenson died in 1948 and in her will she left her estate of > £21,000 to various charities and friends. I‘m curious to know whether the > wishes of her husband – to leave the remainder of his estate to his > siblings after his wife’s death would have been implemented or did the > wife’s will over-ride his will. > > I’d be grateful for any clarification on this situation. > > Many thanks > Kerrie

----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathleen via" <aus-nsw@rootsweb.com> To: "Susie Zada" <szada@zades.com.au>; <aus-nsw@rootsweb.com>; "'Kerriea'" <kerriea@aapt.net.au> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2015 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [AUS-NSW] Wills query > Thanks Susie for your reply. It does help. The wills I have > been looking > at were in the late 1800s. > Hi Kathleen. Those 2 weren't ............. Were in the 1940s ? FWIW this STEVENSON couple of are Ancestrys public trees Bye MargM Beautiful NSW Central Coast ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5646 / Virus Database: 4293/9152 - Release Date: 02/20/15

Thanks Susie for your reply. It does help. The wills I have been looking at were in the late 1800s. Kathleen. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susie Zada" <szada@zades.com.au> To: "'Kathleen'" <starr2010@bigpond.com>; <aus-nsw@rootsweb.com>; "'Kerriea'" <kerriea@aapt.net.au> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2015 8:02 AM Subject: RE: [AUS-NSW] Wills query Hi Kerrie and Kathleen, Addressing a couple of questions raised by each of you: As stated by Nivard, the distribution is in the control of the Executors and depends completely on the actual wording of the will. There are MANY occasions when peoples' wills were very generous in their bequests etc. but by the time of their death and probate being granted, often didn't have the assets they were giving away. If funds or items were left IN TRUST for, ie. Siblings instead of wife, then those items are specifically transferred into a trust or held by the Executors / Trustees. So if a wife later died and her estate included a large sum of money, that sum would NOT include items held by the Executors or Trustees. If it was property [real estate] that was held in Trust, then the title of that property was never transferred to the wife and again would not be part of her estate. If you spend time following the ownership on specific property you will find the title sits in the name of the Executors or Trustees until the interim beneficiary has died and the title is then legally transferred to the next stated beneficiary. If the original will didn't use the right words to ensure that their wishes would be carried out [ie. that items were only for the USE of a person during their lifetime] then not a lot can / could be done. If the Executors / Trustees didn't act according to the original will, then you can always try contesting based on that but good luck - these often long drawn out cases are what makes the legal fraternity very rich. Kathleen, unless there are GOVERNMENT legal documents required for the transfer of items [Land Titles, Motor Vehicle Ownership etc.] then it's very difficult to identify. You would need to find non-government documents - i.e. solicitor's correspondence, bank account details etc. etc. In Victoria, the Probate Files give more details than I have found in New South Wales ones. Often an extremely detailed Inventory of Assets and a list of Distribution of all assets. Hope that helps with the explanations. Regards ...... Susie Zada -----Original Message----- From: aus-nsw-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-nsw-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kathleen via Sent: Friday, 20 February 2015 11:58 PM To: Kerriea; aus-nsw@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-NSW] Wills query Is there anywhere I can find out what people actually got from a will. A couple of wills I read said that after the wife died the remainder of the estate would be sold and divided equally amongst the remaining family. Thanks

Hi Kerrie and Kathleen, Addressing a couple of questions raised by each of you: As stated by Nivard, the distribution is in the control of the Executors and depends completely on the actual wording of the will. There are MANY occasions when peoples' wills were very generous in their bequests etc. but by the time of their death and probate being granted, often didn't have the assets they were giving away. If funds or items were left IN TRUST for, ie. Siblings instead of wife, then those items are specifically transferred into a trust or held by the Executors / Trustees. So if a wife later died and her estate included a large sum of money, that sum would NOT include items held by the Executors or Trustees. If it was property [real estate] that was held in Trust, then the title of that property was never transferred to the wife and again would not be part of her estate. If you spend time following the ownership on specific property you will find the title sits in the name of the Executors or Trustees until the interim beneficiary has died and the title is then legally transferred to the next stated beneficiary. If the original will didn't use the right words to ensure that their wishes would be carried out [ie. that items were only for the USE of a person during their lifetime] then not a lot can / could be done. If the Executors / Trustees didn't act according to the original will, then you can always try contesting based on that but good luck - these often long drawn out cases are what makes the legal fraternity very rich. Kathleen, unless there are GOVERNMENT legal documents required for the transfer of items [Land Titles, Motor Vehicle Ownership etc.] then it's very difficult to identify. You would need to find non-government documents - i.e. solicitor's correspondence, bank account details etc. etc. In Victoria, the Probate Files give more details than I have found in New South Wales ones. Often an extremely detailed Inventory of Assets and a list of Distribution of all assets. Hope that helps with the explanations. Regards ...... Susie Zada -----Original Message----- From: aus-nsw-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-nsw-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kathleen via Sent: Friday, 20 February 2015 11:58 PM To: Kerriea; aus-nsw@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-NSW] Wills query Is there anywhere I can find out what people actually got from a will. A couple of wills I read said that after the wife died the remainder of the estate would be sold and divided equally amongst the remaining family. Thanks Kathleen. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerriea via" <aus-nsw@rootsweb.com> To: <aus-nsw@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2015 2:56 PM Subject: [AUS-NSW] Wills query > Hi > > I have been looking at some of the NSW wills available on Find My Past and > am curious about a couple of wills and hope someone may be able to assist > me. A James Stevenson died childless in 1945 and left an estate of > almost £27,000. He left various bequests to charitable organisations and > the bulk of his estate went to his wife Constance. The will stated that > at her death any money remaining was to be divided between his surviving > siblings or their children in Ireland. > > Constance Stevenson died in 1948 and in her will she left her estate of > £21,000 to various charities and friends. I‘m curious to know whether the > wishes of her husband – to leave the remainder of his estate to his > siblings after his wife’s death would have been implemented or did the > wife’s will over-ride his will. > > I’d be grateful for any clarification on this situation. > > Many thanks > Kerrie

Thanks Nivard for the reply. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nivard Ovington via" <aus-nsw@rootsweb.com> To: <aus-nsw@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2015 11:14 PM Subject: Re: [AUS-NSW] Wills query > Hi Kathleen > > I was waiting to see if someone more conversant with NSW records would > reply but haven't seen any so far > > On your previous enquiry > > As far as I am aware the distribution of the deceased estate once > probate was granted was entirely down to the executor or executrix > > Once they had followed the wishes of the testator their work was done, > any further wishes in the will such as when the widow passed on, would > be largely ignored as the widows will would take precedence > > As to exactly who got the proceeds of the estate, if the taxation system > demanded their cut, ie there were estate or inheritance duty in > Australia, there may be a record of who got what > > For smaller estates there is unlikely to be a record unless its been > kept in the family as only the solicitor would have had the paperwork > bar the family, some solicitors records have been deposited at archives > but there is no law saying they had to, at least that was the case in > the UK > > If there is an estate duty record it may show who got what and their > relationship to the deceased, again at least that is the case in the UK > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 20/02/2015 12:57, Kathleen via wrote: >> Is there anywhere I can find out what people actually got from a will. A >> couple of wills I read said that after the wife died the remainder of the >> estate would be sold and divided equally amongst the remaining family. >>

Is there anywhere I can find out what people actually got from a will. A couple of wills I read said that after the wife died the remainder of the estate would be sold and divided equally amongst the remaining family. Thanks Kathleen. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerriea via" <aus-nsw@rootsweb.com> To: <aus-nsw@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2015 2:56 PM Subject: [AUS-NSW] Wills query > Hi > > I have been looking at some of the NSW wills available on Find My Past and > am curious about a couple of wills and hope someone may be able to assist > me. A James Stevenson died childless in 1945 and left an estate of > almost £27,000. He left various bequests to charitable organisations and > the bulk of his estate went to his wife Constance. The will stated that > at her death any money remaining was to be divided between his surviving > siblings or their children in Ireland. > > Constance Stevenson died in 1948 and in her will she left her estate of > £21,000 to various charities and friends. I‘m curious to know whether the > wishes of her husband – to leave the remainder of his estate to his > siblings after his wife’s death would have been implemented or did the > wife’s will over-ride his will. > > I’d be grateful for any clarification on this situation. > > Many thanks > Kerrie > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AUS-NSW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi I have been looking at some of the NSW wills available on Find My Past and am curious about a couple of wills and hope someone may be able to assist me. A James Stevenson died childless in 1945 and left an estate of almost £27,000. He left various bequests to charitable organisations and the bulk of his estate went to his wife Constance. The will stated that at her death any money remaining was to be divided between his surviving siblings or their children in Ireland. Constance Stevenson died in 1948 and in her will she left her estate of £21,000 to various charities and friends. I‘m curious to know whether the wishes of her husband – to leave the remainder of his estate to his siblings after his wife’s death would have been implemented or did the wife’s will over-ride his will. I’d be grateful for any clarification on this situation. Many thanks Kerrie

Hi Kathleen I was waiting to see if someone more conversant with NSW records would reply but haven't seen any so far On your previous enquiry As far as I am aware the distribution of the deceased estate once probate was granted was entirely down to the executor or executrix Once they had followed the wishes of the testator their work was done, any further wishes in the will such as when the widow passed on, would be largely ignored as the widows will would take precedence As to exactly who got the proceeds of the estate, if the taxation system demanded their cut, ie there were estate or inheritance duty in Australia, there may be a record of who got what For smaller estates there is unlikely to be a record unless its been kept in the family as only the solicitor would have had the paperwork bar the family, some solicitors records have been deposited at archives but there is no law saying they had to, at least that was the case in the UK If there is an estate duty record it may show who got what and their relationship to the deceased, again at least that is the case in the UK Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 20/02/2015 12:57, Kathleen via wrote: > Is there anywhere I can find out what people actually got from a will. A > couple of wills I read said that after the wife died the remainder of the > estate would be sold and divided equally amongst the remaining family. > > Thanks > > Kathleen. >> I have been looking at some of the NSW wills available on Find My Past and >> am curious about a couple of wills and hope someone may be able to assist >> me. A James Stevenson died childless in 1945 and left an estate of >> almost £27,000. He left various bequests to charitable organisations and >> the bulk of his estate went to his wife Constance. The will stated that >> at her death any money remaining was to be divided between his surviving >> siblings or their children in Ireland. >> >> Constance Stevenson died in 1948 and in her will she left her estate of >> £21,000 to various charities and friends. I‘m curious to know whether the >> wishes of her husband – to leave the remainder of his estate to his >> siblings after his wife’s death would have been implemented or did the >> wife’s will over-ride his will. >> >> I’d be grateful for any clarification on this situation. >> >> Many thanks >> Kerrie

Hi again Dianna, Trial for Ellen McCARTY at the Old Bailey, 12 September 1821 - http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18210912-141-off818&div=t18210912-141#highlight Arrived on convict ship "Mary Ann" 20 May 1822. She appears on the Irish Convict Database, aged 23 on arrival, born 1799 at Cork. Cheers Trish > Ellen or Eleanor arrived on the Mary Ann date ? > I tried to find his trial at the Old Bailey site but couldn't see it nor > Eleanors. She interests me as she was apparently arrested/charged with > kidnapping a child she was taking care of in England I believe. Would love > to > know more on these two. Kindest regards and thanks Dianna

Hi Dianna, Old Bailey records - http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18030216-38-defend229&div=t18030216-38#highlight http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18030216-38-person232&div=t18030216-38#highlight http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18030216-39-defend237&div=t18030216-39#highlight Will keep looking for Ellen etc. Cheers Trish Nowra NSW > James Nowland/Nolan/Knowland arrived on > the Coromandel in 1804 > I tried to find his trial at the Old Bailey site but couldn't see it Dianna

Hi Everyone Thought I would try and find out a little more on these two rellies of mine who were both convicts. James Nowland/Nolan/Knowland arrived on the Coromandel in 1804 Ellen or Eleanor arrived on the Mary Ann date ? Did find the below:- NOLAN, James 1822 Sep 12,13 Re permission to marry in the Roman Catholic Church at Sydney (Reel 6009; 4/3506 p.229) Looking at the BDM it has his marriage to Eleanor McCarthy in 1822 and again in 1832. His parents are Denis and Ann he died in Concord NSW in 1860. I tried to find his trial at the Old Bailey site but couldn't see it nor Eleanors. She interests me as she was apparently arrested/charged with kidnapping a child she was taking care of in England I believe. Would love to know more on these two. Kindest regards and thanks Dianna

Thanks Shirley for providing the details "Donald Calip HAYES cremated at Beresfield Crematorium, Beresfield, NSW. The record shows the following: HAYES Donald Calip, Date: 28 December 1951, Address: Nazareth House, Manilla Road, Tamworth, Age: 83, Disposal of ashes: Garden Wall B/177 Ref: 8598 Died in Tamworth - but cremated in Maitland!!! Thanks everyone for your assistance with this VMA Lorrae J Forest Lake Q 4078 http://www.lorrae.net/ _____ From: Lorrae J [mailto:lorrae@uqconnect.net] Sent: Monday, 9 February 2015 7:49 PM To: 'AUS-NSW@rootsweb.com' Cc: 'aus-nsw-hills-hawkesbury-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com' Subject: Burial of Caleb Donald Hayes - Dec 1951 Hi folks Looking for help with this person please: Caleb Donald Hayes was born 19 October 1871 in Windsor. He married Leah Jane Mahoney on 6 June 1891 in Windsor - when he was a painter. They had 15 children, including a set of 4 babies in June 1893. Caleb served in the Boer war - 689 However, the marriage did not survive and within 25 years, Caleb had left the family. Trove has many interesting articles However, our interest lay in his death - 28 December 1951 (according to the NSW BDM site.) 31115/1951 HAYES DONALD CALIP JAMES MARY ANN TAMWORTH 31115/1951 HAYES GEORGE JAMES MARY ANN TAMWORTH 31115/1951 HAYES Donald Calip known as George James Mary Ann Tamworth and Quirindi BUT what happened to him? His children may have been in the area, and they may have his 'ashes', but where? I have asked the local Tamworth council, and he is not mentioned in any of their cemetery records. With this being the centenary of the WWI, it would be great to know where he is resting. Caleb is my grandmother's maternal uncle = my great grand uncle (2xgreat uncle) Any help is appreciated Lorrae J Forest Lake Q 4078 <http://www.lorrae.net/> http://www.lorrae.net/ __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 11178 (20150215) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com

Hello Ken What are you after exactly

Hi Listers, Seeking descendants of Charles Edward MORGAN B. 1845 and Janes Thomas MORGAN B 1851. They were sons of Edwin Josiah MORGAN and Martha. Edwin and Martha arrived in NSW as Bounty immigrants and he died from an accident in 1856 at Dungowan Creek nr. Tamworth. The family lived in Sydney, then West Maitland and Tamworth where there are probably family members still there. This family immigrated from England after moving from Wales. Lex Campbell, Sydney, Australia. E mail, kcam7375@bigpond.net.au --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

Hi Lorrae Have you got the death certificate for Donald as below. Perhaps it will show where he is buried and who the informant at death is. As for the reference in Leah's death notice that she is the widow of Caleb Hayes, perhaps this is a polite way of explaining why she has no husband. Perhaps she was embarrassed by having to explain that she was divorced. Also in regard to the death notice it mentions 9 living children Jim, Elsie, Grace, Robert (can't find a birth entry), Henry, Linda, Eileen, Lachlan and Madeline (can't find a birth entry) and five deceased Florence c1943, Mary, Margaret, Amelia d1893, Donald and Lillian d1909. I could not tie in the births and deaths to match. Also, is there a reason for Donald Richard and Robert to have their death recorded under the same reference number in 1982? According to Leah's death notice Donald is deceased by 1950? Also mention is not made of three of the four deceased children from 1893, ie William, Emily and Sarah. Perhaps you have already solved these anomalies? Regards, Jan -----Original Message----- From: aus-nsw-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aus-nsw-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lorrae J via Sent: Tuesday, 10 February 2015 6:52 PM To: 'Geoff Wood PCUG'; aus-nsw-hills-hawkesbury-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com; AUS-NSW@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-NSW] [HHHV] Burial of Caleb Donald Hayes - Dec 1951 Hi Geoff I am relying on the NSW BDM website which has the following: 31115/1951 HAYES DONALD CALIP JAMES MARY ANN TAMWORTH 31115/1951 HAYES GEORGE JAMES MARY ANN TAMWORTH 31115/1951 HAYES Donald Calip known as George James Mary Ann Tamworth This is the closest I have come to any other reference to him. The actual date is 28Dec1951. Newspapers are guidelines, not accurate, as I have seen too many inaccurate reports in newspapers, but I would hope the Government BDM is accurate. Lorrae J Forest Lake Q 4078 http://www.lorrae.net/ _____ From: Geoff Wood PCUG [mailto:gwood@pcug.org.au] Sent: Tuesday, 10 February 2015 12:28 AM To: Lorrae J; aus-nsw-hills-hawkesbury-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com; AUS-NSW@rootsweb.com Cc: aus-nsw-hills-hawkesbury-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HHHV] Burial of Caleb Donald Hayes - Dec 1951 Hi Lorrae, The Trove items on Leah Jane's death refer to Caleb Donald predeceasing Leah; can you advise why you consider this to be incorrect, ie that Caleb Donald really died later in 1951 in the Tamworth District ? Be aware that the Rookwood Catholic Cemetery now has added grave photos to its online records for most gravesites (post WWII) which have gravestones. http://search.catholiccemeteries.org.au/default.aspx You can download their photo of the gravestone for Leah J (Jane) & one daughter (Florence) who died in 1943. Cheers, Geoff Wood ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lorrae J via" <aus-nsw-hills-hawkesbury-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com> To: <AUS-NSW@rootsweb.com> Cc: <aus-nsw-hills-hawkesbury-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2015 5:48 PM Subject: [HHHV] Burial of Caleb Donald Hayes - Dec 1951 > Hi folks > > Looking for help with this person please: > > Caleb Donald Hayes was born 19 October 1871 in Windsor. > He married Leah Jane Mahoney on 6 June 1891 in Windsor - when he was a > painter. > They had 15 children, including a set of 4 babies in June 1893. > > Caleb served in the Boer war - 689 > > However, the marriage did not survive and within 25 years, Caleb had left > the family. > Trove has many interesting articles > > However, our interest lay in his death - 28 December 1951 (according to > the > NSW BDM site.) > > 31115/1951 HAYES DONALD CALIP JAMES MARY ANN TAMWORTH > 31115/1951 HAYES GEORGE JAMES MARY ANN TAMWORTH > 31115/1951 HAYES Donald Calip known as George James Mary Ann Tamworth > and > Quirindi > > > BUT what happened to him? > > His children may have been in the area, and they may have his 'ashes', > but > where? > > > I have asked the local Tamworth council, and he is not mentioned in any > of > their cemetery records. > > With this being the centenary of the WWI, it would be great to know where > he > is resting. > > Caleb is my grandmother's maternal uncle = my great grand uncle (2xgreat > uncle) > > Any help is appreciated > > > > Lorrae J > Forest Lake Q 4078 > <http://www.lorrae.net/> http://www.lorrae.net/ > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 11151 (20150210) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AUS-NSW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Jennifer Caleb Donald HAYES is the fifth child of James Hayes (1832-1913) and Mary Ann Jane Gallagher (1942-1931). Without going into too much information here, according to many articles on Trove, did not support his wife after they separated, 9 of his 15 children married, and no, none of the children could be named with his name. The quads were born in 1893. With his history in court, I would understand his use of the name George and why there is no record of him. http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article66352636 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article86221445 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article85845641 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article86216448 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article85862511 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article16332237 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article85953635 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article16363282 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article156674314 I have a lot of the NSW Police Gazettes with articles on him - 08Dec1897 - page 425 - left column; 29July1914 - page 367 - left column; In 1898, New South Wales, <http://search.ancestry.com.au/search/db.aspx?dbid=2172> Australia, Government Gazettes, 1853-1899 page 2189 [9255] I think he went off the 'scene' after the 1914 issue of not supporting his wife. BUT where did he go? I will have to spend the money and buy these death certificates!! Thanks everyone Lorrae J Forest Lake Q 4078 http://www.lorrae.net/ _____ From: Jennifer Bell [mailto:jaznjjj@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, 10 February 2015 4:36 AM To: Geoff Wood PCUG; aus-nsw-hills-hawkesbury-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com Cc: Lorrae J; AUS-NSW@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HHHV] Burial of Caleb Donald Hayes - Dec 1951 Death certificate should show where buried or cremated. Is the one who died in 1951 possibly a son or other relative bearing the same or similar name? The "known as George" is interesting and maybe a good clue. He may be buried under a different name. Three entries in NSW BDM? Whoever registered the death in 1951 knew the names of his parents. That's another clue. Does parentage of "James and Mary Ann" indicate whether the 1951 death is correctly identified? Perhaps check out burials of Leah and children in case he is buried in or near the same plot. Jennifer If I don't get back to you when you are expecting me to, please feel free to email me again. Life gets hectic sometimes and I really do want to stay in touch! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lorrae J via" <aus-nsw-hills-hawkesbury-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com> To: <AUS-NSW@rootsweb.com> Cc: <aus-nsw-hills-hawkesbury-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2015 5:48 PM Subject: [HHHV] Burial of Caleb Donald Hayes - Dec 1951 > Hi folks > > Looking for help with this person please: > > Caleb Donald Hayes was born 19 October 1871 in Windsor. > He married Leah Jane Mahoney on 6 June 1891 in Windsor - when he was a > painter. > They had 15 children, including a set of 4 babies in June 1893. > > Caleb served in the Boer war - 689 > > However, the marriage did not survive and within 25 years, Caleb had left > the family. > Trove has many interesting articles > > However, our interest lay in his death - 28 December 1951 (according to > the > NSW BDM site.) > > 31115/1951 HAYES DONALD CALIP JAMES MARY ANN TAMWORTH > 31115/1951 HAYES GEORGE JAMES MARY ANN TAMWORTH > 31115/1951 HAYES Donald Calip known as George James Mary Ann Tamworth > and > Quirindi > > > BUT what happened to him? > > His children may have been in the area, and they may have his 'ashes', > but > where? > > > I have asked the local Tamworth council, and he is not mentioned in any > of > their cemetery records. > > With this being the centenary of the WWI, it would be great to know where > he > is resting. > > Caleb is my grandmother's maternal uncle = my great grand uncle (2xgreat > uncle) > > Any help is appreciated > > > > Lorrae J > Forest Lake Q 4078 > <http://www.lorrae.net/> http://www.lorrae.net/ > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 11151 (20150210) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com

Hi Geoff I am relying on the NSW BDM website which has the following: 31115/1951 HAYES DONALD CALIP JAMES MARY ANN TAMWORTH 31115/1951 HAYES GEORGE JAMES MARY ANN TAMWORTH 31115/1951 HAYES Donald Calip known as George James Mary Ann Tamworth This is the closest I have come to any other reference to him. The actual date is 28Dec1951. Newspapers are guidelines, not accurate, as I have seen too many inaccurate reports in newspapers, but I would hope the Government BDM is accurate. Lorrae J Forest Lake Q 4078 http://www.lorrae.net/ _____ From: Geoff Wood PCUG [mailto:gwood@pcug.org.au] Sent: Tuesday, 10 February 2015 12:28 AM To: Lorrae J; aus-nsw-hills-hawkesbury-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com; AUS-NSW@rootsweb.com Cc: aus-nsw-hills-hawkesbury-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HHHV] Burial of Caleb Donald Hayes - Dec 1951 Hi Lorrae, The Trove items on Leah Jane's death refer to Caleb Donald predeceasing Leah; can you advise why you consider this to be incorrect, ie that Caleb Donald really died later in 1951 in the Tamworth District ? Be aware that the Rookwood Catholic Cemetery now has added grave photos to its online records for most gravesites (post WWII) which have gravestones. http://search.catholiccemeteries.org.au/default.aspx You can download their photo of the gravestone for Leah J (Jane) & one daughter (Florence) who died in 1943. Cheers, Geoff Wood ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lorrae J via" <aus-nsw-hills-hawkesbury-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com> To: <AUS-NSW@rootsweb.com> Cc: <aus-nsw-hills-hawkesbury-hunter-valley@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2015 5:48 PM Subject: [HHHV] Burial of Caleb Donald Hayes - Dec 1951 > Hi folks > > Looking for help with this person please: > > Caleb Donald Hayes was born 19 October 1871 in Windsor. > He married Leah Jane Mahoney on 6 June 1891 in Windsor - when he was a > painter. > They had 15 children, including a set of 4 babies in June 1893. > > Caleb served in the Boer war - 689 > > However, the marriage did not survive and within 25 years, Caleb had left > the family. > Trove has many interesting articles > > However, our interest lay in his death - 28 December 1951 (according to > the > NSW BDM site.) > > 31115/1951 HAYES DONALD CALIP JAMES MARY ANN TAMWORTH > 31115/1951 HAYES GEORGE JAMES MARY ANN TAMWORTH > 31115/1951 HAYES Donald Calip known as George James Mary Ann Tamworth > and > Quirindi > > > BUT what happened to him? > > His children may have been in the area, and they may have his 'ashes', > but > where? > > > I have asked the local Tamworth council, and he is not mentioned in any > of > their cemetery records. > > With this being the centenary of the WWI, it would be great to know where > he > is resting. > > Caleb is my grandmother's maternal uncle = my great grand uncle (2xgreat > uncle) > > Any help is appreciated > > > > Lorrae J > Forest Lake Q 4078 > <http://www.lorrae.net/> http://www.lorrae.net/ > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 11151 (20150210) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com