Thank you to all who answered. The person was Alfred Charles WESTCOTT, I'd like to hear from anyone interested in the Westcotts, his wife was Elizabeth Gertrude KULMAR. Lyn did tried Googling Junee, there are a few cemeteries there. I also found an site which I will post separately in case anyone else doesn't know about it. Trish, I had tried the Ryerson Index thanks, it is very useful, I tried other years just in case but still couldn't find him. Jan, unfortunately he is not on the plaque. MargM, Alfred was living in Junee in 1936, I will look for a will on Ancestry at the library when I have a free morning.   David, I didn't say on my email to you, Alfred was a painter and I will read up on Trove about your interesting family.   Marion, in wet, chilly Devon, Engalnd

Hi,   I found the burial of a family member on the Familysearch Cemetery Index Cards but the death does not appear on the NSW BDM, I searched using various spellings of the surname etc. The date is 1955 so not if the was a notice in the Newpaper I cannot find it as it is not yet on Trove. I tried to email NSW BDM but the email would not send it kept coming up with an error in sending. The cemetery was Junee I wondered if there is any other way I can find out more online?   Regards, Marion

Hi all I wondered if this may be of interest http://nationalarchives.gov.uk/news/805.htm Which leads to http://nationalarchives.gov.uk/australasia/ And the blog <http://blog.nationalarchives.gov.uk/blog/in-flickrs-page-let-every-stage-advance-australia-fair/> -- Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

Hi Grant I found a birth & Marriage record on Ancestry but not much more. There is one family tree but its private for a James Alfred Reid born 1907 in Warren. Sorry I can not help much Josephine Qld Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922 Name: James A Reid Birth Date: 1907 Father's Name: John A Reid Mother's Name: Eva Birth Place: New South Wales Registration Year: 1907 Registration Place: Warren, New South Wales Registration number: 30337 Australia Marriage Index, 1788-1950 about James Reid Name: James Reid Spouse Name: Mable Ward Marriage Date: 1934 Marriage Place: New South Wales Registration Place: Coonamble, New South Wales Registration Year: 1934 Registration number: 12670 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, 26 January 2013 7:12 AM To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: [AUS-NSW] Drover James "Jimmy" Reid 1907 - 1953 Hi, looking for any information / Photographs on a James Alfred Reid who was a drover around Gulargambone, Coonamble ,Warren, Quambone, Gilgandra etc Lived for a while around or on the Aboriginal misiion at Gulargambone, was married to a Mabel Ward who was of Aboriginal descent, and drowned in the " Mullens Swamp" Stock Tank @ Carinda in 1953, Mabel and some of the children were with him at the time. Grant. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, looking for any information / Photographs on a James Alfred Reid who was a drover around Gulargambone, Coonamble ,Warren, Quambone, Gilgandra etc Lived for a while around or on the Aboriginal misiion at Gulargambone, was married to a Mabel Ward who was of Aboriginal descent, and drowned in the " Mullens Swamp" Stock Tank @ Carinda in 1953, Mabel and some of the children were with him at the time. Grant.

Hello Can any one tell me how I get rid of the dot and symbols in my emails, thanks carole Don't know how I got them.

HI Joan Thanks so much for your reply, I forgot to mention that the boys were both natives of NSW. Just trying to tie them up with my Michael Byrne who was a convict. Many thanks Dianna

Hi Diana I found a lot of information in the Gaol Description books at the NSW State Records office. Well worth a visit. For the fellow I was looking for it gave me the ship of arrival and date, age and description and where born, although this was in 1853 and my fellow committed a crime here and was not a convict on arrival. I had been looking for his arrival for 20 years. Joan HI Everyone I'm hoping that I maybe able to find more details on the gaol sentence of brothers (?) William a brewer and Michael Byrne a cabinetmaker, who were gaoled in 1831 for three months. They were convicted in Parramatta and I believe that they were living in or around Campbelltown perhaps Details are on the NSW Gaol Description records from Ancestry. There was also an article in The Sydney Gazette 12 April 1831 re the boys arrest and sentence I know when William married, died but I do not know anything about Michael, ie marriage, death etc. If anyone could advise me where else to look I would be most appreciative. Kind regards Dianna

HI Everyone I'm hoping that I maybe able to find more details on the gaol sentence of brothers (?) William a brewer and Michael Byrne a cabinetmaker, who were gaoled in 1831 for three months. They were convicted in Parramatta and I believe that they were living in or around Campbelltown perhaps Details are on the NSW Gaol Description records from Ancestry. There was also an article in The Sydney Gazette 12 April 1831 re the boys arrest and sentence I know when William married, died but I do not know anything about Michael, ie marriage, death etc. If anyone could advise me where else to look I would be most appreciative. Kind regards Dianna

Sorry John & listers for my mistake.....I do have lunch whilst searching, just need the luck:-} Joan Hi John Glad the site eventually led you to something more of interest. I have used askaboutireland for some time and found it great, but unfortunately with a common name of LYNCH in Co Clare in the very early 1800's have had no lunch with my searching. Have you used the Tithe Applotments, they are also a good source for the 1820-1830's. http://www.connorsgenealogy.net/Armagh/#townlands Cheers Joan Thank you, Joan. I checked out RootsIreland but got no relevant hits. It did, however, lead me to a very valuable Irish resource, the Griffiths Valuation from the 19th century. This was a survey done for the whole of Ireland for taxation purposes and it includes all the names of tenants on land as well as their landlords and it even has detailed maps showing you the lots they lived on, overlain on modern Google Maps so that you can see how to drive there. For the Campbell family I'm interested in, I found the father of the family, and could see who all his neighbours were too. The beauty of this collection is that it also lists which parish people lived in, so that you can find those records too. It's all completely downloadable -- and free. Go to: http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/ So thanks again, Joan! Hi John I don't know whether this site may be of any help for you for Co Armagh, but may be worth a try. http://www.rootsireland.ie/ You can join to view but need to buy credits to actually buy the record if you find any you are interested in. I know they have increased their price in the last 12 months but haven't used it during this time. Cheers Joan Hello everyone, In 1903, a Sydney betting shop owner offering attractive odds collected a large sum in wagers on the Melbourne Cup. After the race, the winning punters gathered merrily outside his shop. Life was good. Then they were told there would be no payout that day and joy turned to rage, for they correctly suspected the owner had fled with their treasure. The shop was wrecked, an employee in it was lucky to escape alive and the police had to restore order. Sydney's newspapers spread the story and the state premier promised the law would do its job. Arrest warrants were issued, but the two culprits named were never found. Until now. I have inherited a collection of family papers that is helping me uncover the details of this incident, and am researching and writing a book about the lives of the people involved in it. The betting shop riot is just one element in a family saga of fame and wealth, sexual dalliances with huge consequences and lucrative illegal gambling. I will gladly share more of this story with genealogists whose research coincides with mine and who can help me with details. There was a circle of people in Sydney who knew all about the great Melbourne Cup heist and enjoyed inside jokes about it for years. I'm hoping more of their letters and postcards to each other will have survived. Below are details of people with connections to the story. I am not suggesting that all are implicated in a crime; most are friends, relatives or associates of the guilty parties, or their descendants. I have also given some details of their lives to help with identification. Almost all lived in the Sydney area, although some also spent time elsewhere. Here is an alphabetical list of the surnames: ALLARD, BRADLEY, BRANDTMAN, CAMPBELL, CHOISY, COUSINS, CURTIN, DAVIES, FARMER, HICKEY, MOONEY, HYLAND, JAEDE, JOHNSON, SHORTEL, SUSSMILCH, WANGENHEIM, WISEMAN, WOLSCH. Below are further details about these people. I would be very pleased to be in touch with any descendants of these families or genealogists with a research interest in them. Brothers Thomas SHORTEL and Sydney Walter SHORTEL (also spelled Shortell, Shortal, Shortall and even Shortle or Shortill), born in Sydney 1869 and 1875. Parents Thomas SHORTELL (c. 1845-1886), a tailor, and Teresa CAMPBELL (c. 1849-1880), both born in the British Isles, lived in Sydney most of their lives and died there. A third brother, William SHORTAL, a shearer, died in Blackall, Qld., in 1893, aged 25. I have a small photo that could be of Thomas (Senior) and Teresa and a matching photo of Drumcree Church in Portadown, Northern Ireland, which I suspect meant something to Teresa's family. Does anyone know of a way to look up births/baptisms in County Armagh without having to book an air ticket to Belfast? Thanks John Fuller

Hi John Glad the site eventually led you to something more of interest. I have used askaboutireland for some time and found it great, but unfortunately with a common name of LYNCH in Co Clare in the very early 1800's have had no lunch with my searching. Have you used the Tithe Applotments, they are also a good source for the 1820-1830's. http://www.connorsgenealogy.net/Armagh/#townlands Cheers Joan Thank you, Joan. I checked out RootsIreland but got no relevant hits. It did, however, lead me to a very valuable Irish resource, the Griffiths Valuation from the 19th century. This was a survey done for the whole of Ireland for taxation purposes and it includes all the names of tenants on land as well as their landlords and it even has detailed maps showing you the lots they lived on, overlain on modern Google Maps so that you can see how to drive there. For the Campbell family I'm interested in, I found the father of the family, and could see who all his neighbours were too. The beauty of this collection is that it also lists which parish people lived in, so that you can find those records too. It's all completely downloadable -- and free. Go to: http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/ So thanks again, Joan! Hi John I don't know whether this site may be of any help for you for Co Armagh, but may be worth a try. http://www.rootsireland.ie/ You can join to view but need to buy credits to actually buy the record if you find any you are interested in. I know they have increased their price in the last 12 months but haven't used it during this time. Cheers Joan Hello everyone, In 1903, a Sydney betting shop owner offering attractive odds collected a large sum in wagers on the Melbourne Cup. After the race, the winning punters gathered merrily outside his shop. Life was good. Then they were told there would be no payout that day and joy turned to rage, for they correctly suspected the owner had fled with their treasure. The shop was wrecked, an employee in it was lucky to escape alive and the police had to restore order. Sydney's newspapers spread the story and the state premier promised the law would do its job. Arrest warrants were issued, but the two culprits named were never found. Until now. I have inherited a collection of family papers that is helping me uncover the details of this incident, and am researching and writing a book about the lives of the people involved in it. The betting shop riot is just one element in a family saga of fame and wealth, sexual dalliances with huge consequences and lucrative illegal gambling. I will gladly share more of this story with genealogists whose research coincides with mine and who can help me with details. There was a circle of people in Sydney who knew all about the great Melbourne Cup heist and enjoyed inside jokes about it for years. I'm hoping more of their letters and postcards to each other will have survived. Below are details of people with connections to the story. I am not suggesting that all are implicated in a crime; most are friends, relatives or associates of the guilty parties, or their descendants. I have also given some details of their lives to help with identification. Almost all lived in the Sydney area, although some also spent time elsewhere. Here is an alphabetical list of the surnames: ALLARD, BRADLEY, BRANDTMAN, CAMPBELL, CHOISY, COUSINS, CURTIN, DAVIES, FARMER, HICKEY, MOONEY, HYLAND, JAEDE, JOHNSON, SHORTEL, SUSSMILCH, WANGENHEIM, WISEMAN, WOLSCH. Below are further details about these people. I would be very pleased to be in touch with any descendants of these families or genealogists with a research interest in them. Brothers Thomas SHORTEL and Sydney Walter SHORTEL (also spelled Shortell, Shortal, Shortall and even Shortle or Shortill), born in Sydney 1869 and 1875. Parents Thomas SHORTELL (c. 1845-1886), a tailor, and Teresa CAMPBELL (c. 1849-1880), both born in the British Isles, lived in Sydney most of their lives and died there. A third brother, William SHORTAL, a shearer, died in Blackall, Qld., in 1893, aged 25. I have a small photo that could be of Thomas (Senior) and Teresa and a matching photo of Drumcree Church in Portadown, Northern Ireland, which I suspect meant something to Teresa's family. Does anyone know of a way to look up births/baptisms in County Armagh without having to book an air ticket to Belfast? Margaret CAMPBELL (c. 1842-1911; sister of Teresa above). First husband was Felix CHOISY, tailor, died Sydney 1875; they had a daughter, Mary BRANDTMAN. Second husband was Richard MOONEY (1823-1915), also a tailor. They had three children, Beatrice MOONEY (born c. 1880), Margaret DAVIES (born c. 1882) and Edward MOONEY (born c. 1884). Gustavus (Gus) WANGENHEIM (c. 1869-1910), a business associate of Thomas Shortel's. An inventor. His father of the same name was a well-known hotelier and businessman in Sydney. His mother, Elizabeth WANGENHEIM, was herself a presence in business and city affairs. Florence Josephine HYLAND (c. 1874-1901), daughter of Matthew HYLAND (c. 1844-1878) and Anna HICKEY. Florence died of tuberculosis at Springwood in the Blue Mountains at the age of 27. She never married but, in 1893 at the age of 22, gave birth to a baby that died after three weeks. She had a sister, Julia Constance HYLAND, who married William Walter FARMER in 1899. Jane Victoria BRADLEY (born Melbourne 1870, died Sydney 1894), daughter of Charles Francis BRADLEY (c. 1828-1911) and Louisa WISEMAN, who divorced in 1875, after which Louisa married Arthur NICHOLLS in Sydney. Jane Victoria Bradley died in childbirth in Sydney in 1894, but the child, Victoria Louisa BRADLEY, survived and later became known as Victoria JOHNSON after her adoption by an aunt, Annie JOHNSON, wife of William Henry JOHNSON. Jane Victoria Bradley had a brother, Charles Francis BRADLEY (same name as his father; born Melbourne 1868) who also moved to the Sydney area and had several children. Christian Bernhard SUSSMILCH, music professor (1829-1905), who married Anna Emilie MERKLE in Sydney in 1869. They had six children who survived to adulthood and this very musical family is well documented in public trees on Ancestry.com. One daughter, Pauline Maryann SUSSMILCH (1871-1950), married Thomas SHORTEL in 1896, and was his wife at the time of the Melbourne Cup incident. Another daughter, Emma Emilie SUSSMILCH, married Horace Bateley ALLARD, and they had two daughters. Dora Anna WOLSCH (1869-1951), who married Johannes Heinrich JAEDE, was a good friend of Pauline's. She moved from Sydney to the Melbourne suburb of Ivanhoe for the last decades of her life. Elizabeth CURTIN (born c. 1865) married William COUSINS (c. 1862-1887), who died after being struck by a train. They had two daughters, Emily COUSINS (born c. 1884) and Agnes COUSINS (born 1887, may have been registered as Mary). When Elizabeth COUSINS remarried, to Thomas SHORTEL in 1888, these daughters disappear from the scene. There is no mention of them when Elizabeth and Thomas divorce in 1892; the court hears only about their own daughter. I would love to find out what happened to them, as well as to Elizabeth herself. If you know more about any of these people and are interested in the story, please get in touch. Thanks John Fuller

I have a couple of Australian Crime books..there's a few things around on these families... And this heist... Jenelle. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Fuller Sent: Saturday, 19 January 2013 2:30 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AUS-NSW] Melbourne Cup heist of 1903 Thank you, Joan. I checked out RootsIreland but got no relevant hits. It did, however, lead me to a very valuable Irish resource, the Griffiths Valuation from the 19th century. This was a survey done for the whole of Ireland for taxation purposes and it includes all the names of tenants on land as well as their landlords and it even has detailed maps showing you the lots they lived on, overlain on modern Google Maps so that you can see how to drive there. For the Campbell family I'm interested in, I found the father of the family, and could see who all his neighbours were too. The beauty of this collection is that it also lists which parish people lived in, so that you can find those records too. It's all completely downloadable -- and free. Go to: http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/ So thanks again, Joan! Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 14:15:11 +1100 From: "Joan Birtles" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [AUS-NSW] Melbourne Cup heist of 1903 To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi John I don't know whether this site may be of any help for you for Co Armagh, but may be worth a try. http://www.rootsireland.ie/ You can join to view but need to buy credits to actually buy the record if you find any you are interested in. I know they have increased their price in the last 12 months but haven't used it during this time. Cheers Joan Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 16:05:55 -0800 From: "John Fuller" <[email protected]> Subject: [AUS-NSW] Melbourne Cup heist of 1903 To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello everyone, In 1903, a Sydney betting shop owner offering attractive odds collected a large sum in wagers on the Melbourne Cup. After the race, the winning punters gathered merrily outside his shop. Life was good. Then they were told there would be no payout that day and joy turned to rage, for they correctly suspected the owner had fled with their treasure. The shop was wrecked, an employee in it was lucky to escape alive and the police had to restore order. Sydney's newspapers spread the story and the state premier promised the law would do its job. Arrest warrants were issued, but the two culprits named were never found. Until now. I have inherited a collection of family papers that is helping me uncover the details of this incident, and am researching and writing a book about the lives of the people involved in it. The betting shop riot is just one element in a family saga of fame and wealth, sexual dalliances with huge consequences and lucrative illegal gambling. I will gladly share more of this story with genealogists whose research coincides with mine and who can help me with details. There was a circle of people in Sydney who knew all about the great Melbourne Cup heist and enjoyed inside jokes about it for years. I'm hoping more of their letters and postcards to each other will have survived. Below are details of people with connections to the story. I am not suggesting that all are implicated in a crime; most are friends, relatives or associates of the guilty parties, or their descendants. I have also given some details of their lives to help with identification. Almost all lived in the Sydney area, although some also spent time elsewhere. Here is an alphabetical list of the surnames: ALLARD, BRADLEY, BRANDTMAN, CAMPBELL, CHOISY, COUSINS, CURTIN, DAVIES, FARMER, HICKEY, MOONEY, HYLAND, JAEDE, JOHNSON, SHORTEL, SUSSMILCH, WANGENHEIM, WISEMAN, WOLSCH. Below are further details about these people. I would be very pleased to be in touch with any descendants of these families or genealogists with a research interest in them. Brothers Thomas SHORTEL and Sydney Walter SHORTEL (also spelled Shortell, Shortal, Shortall and even Shortle or Shortill), born in Sydney 1869 and 1875. Parents Thomas SHORTELL (c. 1845-1886), a tailor, and Teresa CAMPBELL (c. 1849-1880), both born in the British Isles, lived in Sydney most of their lives and died there. A third brother, William SHORTAL, a shearer, died in Blackall, Qld., in 1893, aged 25. I have a small photo that could be of Thomas (Senior) and Teresa and a matching photo of Drumcree Church in Portadown, Northern Ireland, which I suspect meant something to Teresa's family. Does anyone know of a way to look up births/baptisms in County Armagh without having to book an air ticket to Belfast? Margaret CAMPBELL (c. 1842-1911; sister of Teresa above). First husband was Felix CHOISY, tailor, died Sydney 1875; they had a daughter, Mary BRANDTMAN. Second husband was Richard MOONEY (1823-1915), also a tailor. They had three children, Beatrice MOONEY (born c. 1880), Margaret DAVIES (born c. 1882) and Edward MOONEY (born c. 1884). Gustavus (Gus) WANGENHEIM (c. 1869-1910), a business associate of Thomas Shortel's. An inventor. His father of the same name was a well-known hotelier and businessman in Sydney. His mother, Elizabeth WANGENHEIM, was herself a presence in business and city affairs. Florence Josephine HYLAND (c. 1874-1901), daughter of Matthew HYLAND (c. 1844-1878) and Anna HICKEY. Florence died of tuberculosis at Springwood in the Blue Mountains at the age of 27. She never married but, in 1893 at the age of 22, gave birth to a baby that died after three weeks. She had a sister, Julia Constance HYLAND, who married William Walter FARMER in 1899. Jane Victoria BRADLEY (born Melbourne 1870, died Sydney 1894), daughter of Charles Francis BRADLEY (c. 1828-1911) and Louisa WISEMAN, who divorced in 1875, after which Louisa married Arthur NICHOLLS in Sydney. Jane Victoria Bradley died in childbirth in Sydney in 1894, but the child, Victoria Louisa BRADLEY, survived and later became known as Victoria JOHNSON after her adoption by an aunt, Annie JOHNSON, wife of William Henry JOHNSON. Jane Victoria Bradley had a brother, Charles Francis BRADLEY (same name as his father; born Melbourne 1868) who also moved to the Sydney area and had several children. Christian Bernhard SUSSMILCH, music professor (1829-1905), who married Anna Emilie MERKLE in Sydney in 1869. They had six children who survived to adulthood and this very musical family is well documented in public trees on Ancestry.com. One daughter, Pauline Maryann SUSSMILCH (1871-1950), married Thomas SHORTEL in 1896, and was his wife at the time of the Melbourne Cup incident. Another daughter, Emma Emilie SUSSMILCH, married Horace Bateley ALLARD, and they had two daughters. Dora Anna WOLSCH (1869-1951), who married Johannes Heinrich JAEDE, was a good friend of Pauline's. She moved from Sydney to the Melbourne suburb of Ivanhoe for the last decades of her life. Elizabeth CURTIN (born c. 1865) married William COUSINS (c. 1862-1887), who died after being struck by a train. They had two daughters, Emily COUSINS (born c. 1884) and Agnes COUSINS (born 1887, may have been registered as Mary). When Elizabeth COUSINS remarried, to Thomas SHORTEL in 1888, these daughters disappear from the scene. There is no mention of them when Elizabeth and Thomas divorce in 1892; the court hears only about their own daughter. I would love to find out what happened to them, as well as to Elizabeth herself. If you know more about any of these people and are interested in the story, please get in touch. Thanks John Fuller ----------------------------- ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you, Joan. I checked out RootsIreland but got no relevant hits. It did, however, lead me to a very valuable Irish resource, the Griffiths Valuation from the 19th century. This was a survey done for the whole of Ireland for taxation purposes and it includes all the names of tenants on land as well as their landlords and it even has detailed maps showing you the lots they lived on, overlain on modern Google Maps so that you can see how to drive there. For the Campbell family I'm interested in, I found the father of the family, and could see who all his neighbours were too. The beauty of this collection is that it also lists which parish people lived in, so that you can find those records too. It's all completely downloadable -- and free. Go to: http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/ So thanks again, Joan! Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 14:15:11 +1100 From: "Joan Birtles" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [AUS-NSW] Melbourne Cup heist of 1903 To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi John I don't know whether this site may be of any help for you for Co Armagh, but may be worth a try. http://www.rootsireland.ie/ You can join to view but need to buy credits to actually buy the record if you find any you are interested in. I know they have increased their price in the last 12 months but haven't used it during this time. Cheers Joan Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 16:05:55 -0800 From: "John Fuller" <[email protected]> Subject: [AUS-NSW] Melbourne Cup heist of 1903 To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello everyone, In 1903, a Sydney betting shop owner offering attractive odds collected a large sum in wagers on the Melbourne Cup. After the race, the winning punters gathered merrily outside his shop. Life was good. Then they were told there would be no payout that day and joy turned to rage, for they correctly suspected the owner had fled with their treasure. The shop was wrecked, an employee in it was lucky to escape alive and the police had to restore order. Sydney's newspapers spread the story and the state premier promised the law would do its job. Arrest warrants were issued, but the two culprits named were never found. Until now. I have inherited a collection of family papers that is helping me uncover the details of this incident, and am researching and writing a book about the lives of the people involved in it. The betting shop riot is just one element in a family saga of fame and wealth, sexual dalliances with huge consequences and lucrative illegal gambling. I will gladly share more of this story with genealogists whose research coincides with mine and who can help me with details. There was a circle of people in Sydney who knew all about the great Melbourne Cup heist and enjoyed inside jokes about it for years. I'm hoping more of their letters and postcards to each other will have survived. Below are details of people with connections to the story. I am not suggesting that all are implicated in a crime; most are friends, relatives or associates of the guilty parties, or their descendants. I have also given some details of their lives to help with identification. Almost all lived in the Sydney area, although some also spent time elsewhere. Here is an alphabetical list of the surnames: ALLARD, BRADLEY, BRANDTMAN, CAMPBELL, CHOISY, COUSINS, CURTIN, DAVIES, FARMER, HICKEY, MOONEY, HYLAND, JAEDE, JOHNSON, SHORTEL, SUSSMILCH, WANGENHEIM, WISEMAN, WOLSCH. Below are further details about these people. I would be very pleased to be in touch with any descendants of these families or genealogists with a research interest in them. Brothers Thomas SHORTEL and Sydney Walter SHORTEL (also spelled Shortell, Shortal, Shortall and even Shortle or Shortill), born in Sydney 1869 and 1875. Parents Thomas SHORTELL (c. 1845-1886), a tailor, and Teresa CAMPBELL (c. 1849-1880), both born in the British Isles, lived in Sydney most of their lives and died there. A third brother, William SHORTAL, a shearer, died in Blackall, Qld., in 1893, aged 25. I have a small photo that could be of Thomas (Senior) and Teresa and a matching photo of Drumcree Church in Portadown, Northern Ireland, which I suspect meant something to Teresa's family. Does anyone know of a way to look up births/baptisms in County Armagh without having to book an air ticket to Belfast? Margaret CAMPBELL (c. 1842-1911; sister of Teresa above). First husband was Felix CHOISY, tailor, died Sydney 1875; they had a daughter, Mary BRANDTMAN. Second husband was Richard MOONEY (1823-1915), also a tailor. They had three children, Beatrice MOONEY (born c. 1880), Margaret DAVIES (born c. 1882) and Edward MOONEY (born c. 1884). Gustavus (Gus) WANGENHEIM (c. 1869-1910), a business associate of Thomas Shortel's. An inventor. His father of the same name was a well-known hotelier and businessman in Sydney. His mother, Elizabeth WANGENHEIM, was herself a presence in business and city affairs. Florence Josephine HYLAND (c. 1874-1901), daughter of Matthew HYLAND (c. 1844-1878) and Anna HICKEY. Florence died of tuberculosis at Springwood in the Blue Mountains at the age of 27. She never married but, in 1893 at the age of 22, gave birth to a baby that died after three weeks. She had a sister, Julia Constance HYLAND, who married William Walter FARMER in 1899. Jane Victoria BRADLEY (born Melbourne 1870, died Sydney 1894), daughter of Charles Francis BRADLEY (c. 1828-1911) and Louisa WISEMAN, who divorced in 1875, after which Louisa married Arthur NICHOLLS in Sydney. Jane Victoria Bradley died in childbirth in Sydney in 1894, but the child, Victoria Louisa BRADLEY, survived and later became known as Victoria JOHNSON after her adoption by an aunt, Annie JOHNSON, wife of William Henry JOHNSON. Jane Victoria Bradley had a brother, Charles Francis BRADLEY (same name as his father; born Melbourne 1868) who also moved to the Sydney area and had several children. Christian Bernhard SUSSMILCH, music professor (1829-1905), who married Anna Emilie MERKLE in Sydney in 1869. They had six children who survived to adulthood and this very musical family is well documented in public trees on Ancestry.com. One daughter, Pauline Maryann SUSSMILCH (1871-1950), married Thomas SHORTEL in 1896, and was his wife at the time of the Melbourne Cup incident. Another daughter, Emma Emilie SUSSMILCH, married Horace Bateley ALLARD, and they had two daughters. Dora Anna WOLSCH (1869-1951), who married Johannes Heinrich JAEDE, was a good friend of Pauline's. She moved from Sydney to the Melbourne suburb of Ivanhoe for the last decades of her life. Elizabeth CURTIN (born c. 1865) married William COUSINS (c. 1862-1887), who died after being struck by a train. They had two daughters, Emily COUSINS (born c. 1884) and Agnes COUSINS (born 1887, may have been registered as Mary). When Elizabeth COUSINS remarried, to Thomas SHORTEL in 1888, these daughters disappear from the scene. There is no mention of them when Elizabeth and Thomas divorce in 1892; the court hears only about their own daughter. I would love to find out what happened to them, as well as to Elizabeth herself. If you know more about any of these people and are interested in the story, please get in touch. Thanks John Fuller -----------------------------

Hello Josephine, Thanks for reply, yes I have them,, I was hoping for a member of the families to get in touch with me, but they must'nt be online,, thanks for your interest, carole

Hi Carole There are a few family trees on Ancestry for Gordon-Cooke family Noel William Gordon-Cooke b 5 Dec 1930 parent Alen Barry Gordon-Cooke not much info Patricia Joan Gordon-Cooke b 1931 Sydney parents George William Pitt & Ethel Margaret Butter. Your Owens family there is only the Electoral Rolls from about 1930 I am not related to these families Josephine Qld -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of carole douch Sent: Wednesday, 16 January 2013 6:37 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [AUS-NSW] Gordon -Cooke family Hello All Does any one have the surname, Gordon-Cooke in their family,Im helping a friend to compile his family. The Gordon-Cooke family were in the Balmain, areas, don't know where they came from, or when. Thanks carole ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi folks, I worked with Dianne and Robyn Prendergast in Wellington NZ. when the NZ Decimal Currency Board needed extra hands to get the decimal currency launched on time. Dianne and Robyn came from Sydney. They mentioned that their father owned a hotel in Balmain - (not sure which one!) There were six of us sharing a house in Thorndon, two of us seem to be the only one's left standing!!! Would love to hear where the above two 'girls' have got to!! Here's hoping! Ainslie.

Hello All Does any one have the surname, Gordon-Cooke in their family,Im helping a friend to compile his family. The Gordon-Cooke family were in the Balmain, areas, don't know where they came from, or when. Thanks carole

Thank you Trish,, all bits help,,I was hoping to make contact with a member of the family also, thanks again Carole

Hi Carole, The son Joseph Patrick died in 1976 (cert no 2800/1976). Death Notice from Sydney Morning Herald, 29 January 1976 - OWENS - Joseph Patrick - January 28, 1976, at his residence Kuppa Road, Ryde, dearly beloved husband of Rene and loved father of Tony, Michael and Margaret. At rest. Funeral Notice from Sydney Morning Herald, 29 January 1976 - OWENS - Requiem Mass for the repose of the soul of the late Joseph Patrick Owens of Kuppa Road, Ryde, will be celebrated at St Charles' Church, Victoria Road, Ryde, tomorrow (Friday) at 1 o'clock. At the conclusion of the Mass the funeral will leave for the Field of Mars Cemetery. Field of Mars has him as aged 67, buried 30 January 1976 in section LWN*STCHAR*ROWL**12 It doesn't look as though there is anyone else in the same grave. Cheers Trish Nowra NSW > Hello All> > Im looking to make contact with the family of Phillip William Owens he > died 5/8/1950 in Drummoyne . Does any one know the family .Or can put me > in > touch with a relative. > He married Genevieve Mary Shepherd in 1905, > Their sons Joseph b 1908, and Bruce b 1911 in Balmain > Thanks Carole

Hello All> Im looking to make contact with the family of Phillip William Owens he died 5/8/1950 in Drummoyne . Does any one know the family .Or can put me in touch with a relative. He married Genevieve Mary Shepherd in 1905, Their sons Joseph b 1908, and Bruce b 1911 in Balmain Thanks Carole