This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----27926e335e65528 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit G'day, this subject has attracted some discussion (see below). As I understand it, promotion by purchase ceased after the great reforms which followed the Crimean War. So I doubt if Isandlwana should be in the list below. The conventional, modern view, is that it was a bad system. For the sake of debate, I'll offer some contrary thoughts: the Empire was in a state of almost continual growth under the old system, and produced such great Victories as the conquest of India, Canada, and Napoleon in the Peninsular Campaign; since the old system was abolished, the Empire has shrunk to a handful of islands in the North Sea; and, more seriously, the promotion was purchased from the previous incumbent. This purchase price was, in effect, the out-going officer's lump-sum on retirement. Without it, and in the absence of a comprehensive retirement program, some officers may have been forced to stay past their use-by dates. Don't forget that Colonels had to pay for the whole Regiment's uniforms. Booty and plunder were shared between officers and men: not equally, of course, and the Colonel took the lion's share. It was a different system, but I wonder if anything since is a significant improvement... Peter THOMAS DARWIN NT >From "Paul Kinney" <[email protected]> Date Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:01:08 +1100 To [email protected] Subject Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #16 The British Army in those times sold positions of rank for Officers to the aristocracy. I believe the purchaser had to be approved by the Colonel of the Regiment concerned. The officer had to provide his own horse, uniforms, tailor made of course, servant, weapons and the accoutrements that went with it. The quality of these Officers left a lot to be desired when it came to combat, they might have been the ants pants in the social aspects of things but they cost many a 'tommy' his life because of their stupidity, arrogance and general lack of common sense. Several events spring to mind, the Charge of the Light Brigade, the withdrawal from Afghanistan in the 1800's, the Indian Mutiny, Isandlwana. ... Best Regards Paul Kinney ----27926e335e65528 Content-Type: text/plain AUS-MILITARY-D Digest Volume 03 : Issue 17 Today's Topics: #1 Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #16 ["Paul Kinney" <[email protected]] #2 Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #16 ["Paul Kinney" <[email protected]] #3 Pvt Joseph Henry Graham MM-18th Bn [Colgan <[email protected]>] #4 2nd Bn 14th RoF ["Val Harris" <[email protected]] Administrivia: To unsubscribe from AUS-MILITARY-D, send a message to [email protected] that contains in the body of the message the command unsubscribe and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. ______________________________ ----27926e335e65528 X-Message: #1 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:10:59 +1100 From: "Paul Kinney" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #16 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dear Lina, >From: [email protected] >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Subject: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #16 >Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 11:00:01 -0700 > ><< message2.txt >> ><< message4.txt >> ><< message6.txt >> ><< message8.txt >> ><< message10.txt >> ><< message12.txt >> ><< message14.txt >> ><< message16.txt >> _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ______________________________ ----27926e335e65528 X-Message: #2 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:01:08 +1100 From: "Paul Kinney" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #16 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dear Lina, The British Army in those times sold positions of rank for Officers to the aristocracy. I believe the purchaser had to be approved by the Colonel of the Regiment concerned. The officer had to provide his own horse, uniforms, tailor made of course, servant, weapons and the accoutrements that went with it. The quality of these Officers left a lot to be desired when it came to combat, they might have been the ants pants in the social aspects of things but they cost many a 'tommy' his life because of their stupidity, arrogance and general lack of common sense. Several events spring to mind, the Charge of the Light Brigade, the withdrawal from Afghanistan in the 1800's, the Indian Mutiny, Isandlwana. The term vice followed by a name indicates the person being replaced. The following explanation may help. You supplied, 17 Rgt of Lt Drag-Brevet Major J Lawrence to be Major, by purchase, vice, St. Quentin. Translation 17th Regiment of Light Dragoons - Brevet Major J Lawrence to be Major (Brevet - rank given to an officer as an honorary position, without the corresponding pay. Lawrence would have been paid as a Captain.), by purchase (he got the money together to pay for his Majority), vice (replacing) St.Quentin. The changes of rank for all officers where gazetted and you can believe this was a very popular read amongst the officers. Also in your email in the same section there is an instance of a gentleman being promoted from that illustrious position to Cornet. Cornet equates to todays rank of second Lieutenant, pronounced 'Lefttenant' in the British and Australian armies and 'Lootenant' in the American. I think I would prefer to be Left than a Loo. Hope I have not been stating the obvious to you Lina, but I got the impression that the double speak of military aphorisms had left you in the dark, a bit. If any of the above helps, enjoy. Best Regards Paul Kinney >From: [email protected] >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Subject: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #16 >Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 11:00:01 -0700 > ><< message2.txt >> ><< message4.txt >> ><< message6.txt >> ><< message8.txt >> ><< message10.txt >> ><< message12.txt >> ><< message14.txt >> ><< message16.txt >> _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ______________________________ ----27926e335e65528 X-Message: #3 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:43:13 -0800 From: Colgan <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Subject: Pvt Joseph Henry Graham MM-18th Bn AIF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi to the list This is my first communciation. My great uncle was awarded his Military Medal in France on 10th July 1917 whilst serving with the 18th Bat. He was born on 18/9/75 in Omagh, Co Tyrone Ireland - father Thomas Graham - mother - Mary Jane Mills. He was married to Jeannie Harrison and had five children. John, Robert, Margaret, Dorothy and Alice. Joseph was gassed in 1918 and was invalided back to Australia after some hospital time in UK. He died in Sydney in 1923. Bob Colgan ______________________________ ----27926e335e65528 X-Message: #4 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:02:35 +1100 From: "Val Harris" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Subject: 2nd Bn 14th RoF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I am researching my great grandfather who was an Irishman from Dublin. He joined the British Army aged 19 yrs in 1860 and was sent to NZ during the Maori Wars. His name was William McAllister Enlistment No. 1674. He was in the 2nd Battn 14th Reg of Foot. He departed Queenstown Cork on the ship "Henry Fernie" on 24th April 1861 arriving Auckland NZ on 25th July 1861. The Capt. was W. Hamilton. The 2/14th Reg departed NZ in 1867 for Australia. Are you able to tell me the name of the ship the 2/14th Reg departed NZ on in 1867 and the date and also the date the ship arrived in Melbourne Victoria. I am still searching the films (AJCP) at the State Library in Brisbane. I have found quite a number of quarterly pay muster sheets listing his name but can't find the name of the ship that transported the regiment to Australia in 1867. Maria Mercer ----27926e335e65528--