Hello List, Just a comment from an observer. I do not believe this list was not set up to be an avenue for dissent. I know people like to voice their own opinion, but please refer someone to a historical document to prove your point, if possible. Please keep on track here and keep the posts to the list of some relevance to the main focus of the list, not an avenue to prove you are right. Selena -----Original Message----- From: Annie and Wal <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Date: Monday, 17 February 2003 22:44 Subject: Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #39 >Gentlemen Please >let us stop this I know more or my info is more accurate type of debate. >Australian soldiers have a pride and reputation which is envied by many >other nations. >Australia was the only country in the world to have a full force of >volunteers in WW1 >No conscripts - No call up, in fact you couldn't get in if you had a drilled >tooth. >No other Country in the world can boast this. And we should be proud. >There is always angst and rivalry between full time soldiers and those who >have come through the voluntary system eg. CMF or Nasho's. >I am a Viet Vet., there was always the competition between them and us. >However, I do not know of anyone who was FORCED to go to combat, maybe my >knowledge is a bit dim, but I don't think so. >Those anti Conscription were imprisoned for breaking the law, not because >they had to go overseas.Concientious objectors could still REMAIN in >Australia. >We went overseas of our own FREE will. (Is there any other country which >allows this???) This point I remember distinctly as a few mates were unable >to go because of health reasons, yes, even after training, and they were >very upset.(believe it or not- its the truth). >The original debate related to the awards system. >Yes, there are many who received awards due to them directly because of >their selflessness and others received awards due to others selflessness. >To term an Aussie quote "thems the breaks". >Our country has a fine Military (and other services ) heritage, and we will >always be proud of it. >A Campaign medal is not an award but shows where you served. If in that >Campaign there were Military awards for bravery beyound the call of Duty a >misnomer if there ever was one) at least you were part of it and should be >proud of those whose lost their lives to save a MATE. I looked after my >mate and he looked after me- that is the AUSTRALIAN TRADITION. Our heritage >is based on mateship from the convict days, do some geneaology research or >has this been forgotten). >Let us agree to disagree on finer points , but history shows that the >Australian serviceman can hold his/her head up high compared to other >nations. >For all those Aussies who died in their believe of our wonderful way of life >and freedom "LET US REMEMBER THEM" >Regards >Wal > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Maurie Tolley" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 1:44 PM >Subject: Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #39 > > >> Mr Harris >> >> I think you should remove your blinkers, 6, 7, 8 & 9 Divvies were AIF, the >> rest were AMF, AND a number of AIF soldiers did , and continue to, treat >> them as 2nd rate soldiers. 90 day wonders was also a term given the >> graduates from Scheyville during the Vietnam War, a number of whom did >> sterling work in Vietnam and some went on the command battalions. I never >> said Monash was a conscript, he was in the militia (a weekend warrior), an >> urban myth re the time spent in combat zones for Vietnam veterans, I >suggest >> you are swayed by an urban myth. >> >> M. Tolley >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Val Harris <[email protected]> >> To: Maurie Tolley <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> >> Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 11:35 PM >> Subject: Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #39 >> >> >> > unfortunately most of your reply is untrue >> > >> > 90 day wonders were National service men of the early 1950's so they did >> not >> > fight in every conflict in which Australia has been involved. >> > >> > Monash was never a conscript. He joined as a private soldier and worked >> his >> > way to the top as a VOLUNTEER >> > >> > EVERY soldier in WW2 was AMF. Some were AIF some were CMF some were both >> but >> > every one was a member of the AMF >> > >> > If you think I don't know about the 39th look at >> > >> > >> >http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-conflicts-periods/ww2/pages-2aif-cmf/39 - >> > battalion.htm >> > >> > Troops in Viet Nam did spend more of their time in combat zones than WW1 >> > Diggers. That is an urban myth. Sorry. >> > >> > Ted >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Maurie Tolley" <[email protected]> >> > To: <[email protected]> >> > Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 10:47 PM >> > Subject: Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #39 >> > >> > >> > > Mr Harris >> > > >> > > I think your attack on the "90 day wonders" and the "weekend warriors" >> is >> > > both spiteful and unwarranted. Many in both of these groups fought in >> > every >> > > conflict in which Australia has been involved. To just name a few, >Gen'l >> > Sir >> > > John Monash (WW1), Major Templeton of Kokoda fame, Tim Fischer of >> Vietnam >> > > and the list goes on and on. I guess the tripe that has infected >> > subsequent >> > > generations of veterans has not dimmed or diminished. The stigma that >> > > attached to AMF soldiers during WW2 is still felt today. Many AMF >> members >> > > tried to transfer to the AIF but were refused, many went on to fight >> > > valiantly and professionally in PNG and the South West Pacific >theatre. >> > Very >> > > few had the luxury of the many months of training enjoyed by AIF >> > formations >> > > in the Middle Est but still acquitted themselves magnificently. The >> 39th >> > > Battalion, (chockoes, weekend wonders, koalas etc wrote a page in >> > > Australia's Battle Honours that would be hard to equal, curious that >the >> > > 39th has not appeared in Australia's Order of Battle since they were >> > > disbanded. Jealousy, hypocrisy?)It brings to mind the patronising >> attitude >> > > directed at Vietnam Veterans by WW2 Veterans, Funny thing though, >troops >> > in >> > > Vietnam spent a greater percentage of their time in combat zones than >> any >> > > serviceman in previous wars. >> > > >> > > I guess those that are left grow old but, unfortunately some have >grown >> > > bitter. >> > > >> > > M Tolley >> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > From: <[email protected]> >> > > To: <[email protected]> >> > > Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 8:47 PM >> > > Subject: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #39 >> > > >> > >> >> >> ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== >> The Military Historical Society of Australia >> http://www.pcug.org.au/~astaunto/mhsa.htm >> > > >==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== >Please support RootsWeb who make this list possible >http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html