Dear Mr Harris What can I say, It appears that you are a very angry man who thinks that no one should have any medals that you do not have. One wonders if this is the feeling of your Queensland RSL branch. I remember the days when the RSL was against the Korean Vets being granted full returned membership. One point that I should make is that I applied for the medal at the request of the D.O.D. who then investigated and said that I did not qualify. I noticed that you missed the fact that my father was a POW and got nothing from anyone for that. WW1, yes I had family there including at the big G landing and I am proud of them. I have never Jumped up and down demanding a medal (I dont have enough milk cartons to earn the points as you suggest). I think that the reply from Mr Kinney says it all. Kind Regards, Robert Duggan > Val Harris <[email protected]> wrote: > > Mr Duggan > > The difference between staying in Australia and training other people > to > kill (to use your words) and going overseas to a war zone and killing > and > being exposed to the deadly intent of the enemy is so different as to > not > (usually) need explanation. > > But of course you deserve a medal. Why not the "I stayed home award" > or the > "I didn't go away to fight" medal. > > Better still, why not give everyone one 5 medals so that no one > misses out. > Put them in cornflakes packets or hang them on milk cartons. > > Of course they won't have any value or command any respect but all > the 90 > day boys and the weekend warriors can all prance around on Anzac Day > as > though they had really done something. > > I hope my grandson gets a 'My Great Grandfather went to WW1 Medal" to > wear > to pre school next week, it will make him feel "special". Do you want > one as > well? > > > Ted Harris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Duggan" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 1:09 PM > Subject: Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #36 > > > > Hi Paul (old Mate), > > > > I must agree with you on this matter (and most others). > > > > The issue of the 2 medals under discussion was not taken lightly by > the > > government. > > > > I have found over the years that most people who object did not > qualifiy > or > > their off spring have been "knocked back" when applying. > > > > I can answer to both these accounts one for my late father and one > for > > myself. "Knocked back" on both accounts. > > > > Not a bad record for a ex POW (dad) and over 20 years service > (myself). > > > > No I was not a Nasho. but as both Fulltime and CMF service I > trained > Nashos > > including a lot who saw service overseas, and, some did not return. > > > > I applied for the ASM (1945/1975) but was not approved as my > service was > > within Australia. > > Was I disapointed, yes, upset, no. > > > > Do I agree with the Nashos getting their medal, Yes. > > > > Now for a medal for the CMF guys. > > > > I do think that some people get confused with the difference of > service > > medals and awards. > > > > Do I have service medals No. > > Do I have awards, Yes, 2, RFM and NM both awarded by the Govenor > General > for > > service. > > Service 1958-1964 RAR - 1964-1979 CMF including Full Time duty > during the > > Viet Nam period. > > > > I was trained to kill and traind others to kill. > > > > I guess the includinding all the above and no medals I must done > "Bugger > > All" > > > > Paul keep up the good work. > > > > Kind Regard, > > > > Robert Duggan > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Paul Kinney" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 11:35 AM > > Subject: Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #36 > > > > > > > Ms Val Harris > > > Dear Val, > > > My apologies, I do not read newspapers. I find that any > > resemblance > > > between what really happens, and what is written, is more often > than > not, > > an > > > accident. > > > You are absolutely correct regarding the Australian > Award > system, > > > again my apologies, I had forgotten that we had once more taken > Australia > > > into the bold new world of being a country in our own right, with > our > own > > > award system. > > > I noted your further comments about National Servicemen > and the > > > small amount of time they spent in the service. You must be > careful > though > > > when you compare Service medals with bravery awards. Service > medals are > > > given to show the areas where a soldier has been on Service, they > do not > > nor > > > can they be taken to represent acts of bravery. > > > Your e-mail noted the award of the National Service > medal to > all > > > those who served in the 1950's by doing the 90 + days requirement > of > that > > > time, quite frankly I believe the award of the National Service > medal to > > > these men was long over due. Remember, they were being trained to > fight > in > > > an era when Communism was at it's most rampant. The cold war was > a > reality > > > and a bloody terrifying one at that. Joseph Stalin was still the > man > until > > > 1952, and then came Nikita Kruschev. This country had Robert > Menzies as > a > > > Prime Minister and England would have been in trouble if the > expected > war > > in > > > Europe broke out, and 'Ming' would have sent our Army to Europe > at the > > drop > > > of his hat. Who would have defended Australia? The National > Servicemen, > > from > > > whom? Indonesia was going communist, the communists where > fighting an > > armed > > > conflict in Malaya and Viet Nam. Australian troops, airmen and > sailors > > where > > > committed to the Malayan conflict alongside the British, Ghurkas > and > > > Indians. At the same time China and North Korea from 1950 to 1954 > had > > > instigated and and fought the Korean War, so with our regular > army > > committed > > > in Malaya and the government in need of backing the regulars up, > our > > > National Servicemen where the backbone on which any enlargement > of our > > army > > > would be based. > > > You state in your e-mail: > > > "What is the benefit, so far, of the Australian Awards system? We > have > > > awarded medals to hundreds of thousands of National Servicemen > who did > 94 > > > days training in the 1950s, we have made tens of thousands of men > who > did > > > buggar all, eligible for the Australian Service Medal 1945/75, > we have > > > medals for this medals for that and the end result is that they > become > > > almost meaningless" > > > The benefit of the Australian Awards system is that our > country > > can > > > finally recognise the service rendered to it, by those who have > worn and > > > wear, it's military uniform. When you put that uniform on you > become a > > part > > > of something special, the ANZAC tradition. Whether, Nasho or > Regular you > > are > > > a serviceman, it was and is a thing to be proud of. > > > 'Buggar all'. To be placed in a position, at the behest > of your > > > countries government, of possibly being called on to do active > service, > > when > > > and if your country needs you, is hardly 'buggar all'. > Ninety-four days > of > > > training would give you a good chance to know some of the > rudiments of > > what > > > is required to survive in combat. Combat is what servicemen train > for, > to > > > kill the enemy. Not for parades, or to fight bushfires or help > out in > > floods > > > or assist at major disasters, but to kill people. 'Buggar all', > indeed. > > > The following will help you to understand the reason for awarding > the > > > Australian Active Service Medal: > > > "The Minister for Defence Industry Science and Personnel recently > > announced > > > the creation of the Australian Active Service Medal 1945-1975 > (AASM > > 1945-75) > > > to recognise warlike service between 3 September 1945 and 14 > February > > 1975. > > > The award was approved by the Queen on 11 December 1997." > > > 'Warlike service', as none of the National Servicemen of the > 1950's > > qualify > > > for this medal it is not possible for them to receive it. Unless > they > > joined > > > the regular services and did do 'warlike services'. This medal is > for > > > servicemen and women who put their lives at risk for their > country in a > > > combat zone. Again it is an award that was long overdue. The > Korean, > > > Malayan, Sarawak and Borneo campaigns have finally received the > > recognition > > > they deserve. > > > By your definition Val, I am one of those who did 'buggar > all' > to > > > receive that medal. I was a national serviceman, I spent 349 days > in > Viet > > > Nam as a rifleman in the Infantry. If what I and my mates did can > be > > > described as 'buggar all', I would be intrigued to find out what > your > > > definition of the opposite to buggar all is. Be advised that you > are > most > > > probably not on your own as the RSL then, and to a certain extent > now, > > still > > > believe that we where not in a real war. > > > "Medals for this and medals for that and the end result > is that > > they > > > become almost meaningless", only in the eyes of those who do not > > understand > > > or fully know the significance of what they are seeing. > > > To finally receive acknowledgement of what you have done > for > your > > > country, after having had to wait fifteen years for even a > welcome home > > > parade, is, like the parade, a part of the healing process for > those of > us > > > who served in Viet Nam. For the families of the men who died in > Viet Nam > > any > > > further recognition they receive, from the people of this > country, for > > their > > > loss, is more than deserved, even if it is a medal. > > > With our very own award system we can now recognise, and > have, > the > > > contributions of our Peace-Keeping forces wherever and when ever > they > > > represent our country. The same can and will be done for our > people > going > > on > > > 'Active Service' or who have gone on 'Active Service, our SAS in > > Afghanistan > > > for instance. > > > Will there be a quota system? I think not, I will get > back to > you > > on > > > that, when I have confirmed it, with several serving members of > our > armed > > > forces, who should know. > > > Respectfully yours > > > Paul Kinney > > > > > > >From: [email protected] > > > >Reply-To: [email protected] > > > >To: [email protected] > > > >Subject: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V03 #36 > > > >Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:00:01 -0700 > > > > > > > ><< message2.txt >> > > > ><< message4.txt >> > > > ><< message6.txt >> > > > ><< message8.txt >> > > > ><< message10.txt >> > > > ><< message12.txt >> > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ ___ > > > MSN Instant Messenger now available on Australian mobile phones. > Go to > > > http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/hotmail_messenger.asp > > > > > > ______________________________ > > >