"RAAF lost 5,000 men over Germany." Do you mean RAF, Ted? Lindsay Graham Canberra, Australia ----------------------------------- Please reply via the newsgroup/mailing list, so that all may benefit from the discussion. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted HARRIS" <tedharris@ozemail.com.au> To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 11:29 AM Subject: [AUS-MIL] Re: WW2-Air Force > G'day again. > Very few Aussies understand the HUGE input we had to the RAF in WW2. Even > when Japan attacked us here we did not need the huge numbers of aircrew > that > were needed in Europe. > > Here the numbers of planes on both sides was fairly small by world war > standards and the distances made aircraft carried on ships a better option > in many cases. > > In Europe where they were sending "1,000 Bomber Raids" at night, every > night > (Royal Air Force) and "1,000 Bomber Raids" during the day, every day > (United > States Army Air Force) plus fighters plus Recon. plus Delivery Flights > plus > Coastal Command the demand for pilots and aircrew was staggering. So were > the losses. RAAF lost 5,000 men over Germany. > > It is a section of our Military History that is often glossed over. "The > Few" saved Britain and I love them for it. The "Heavy Boys" who flew the > Lancasters and the Wellingtons and the Liberators etc saved the world and > get forgotten. > > I try to set the record straight with www.diggerhistory2.info where I > reproduce 4 books about the RAAF in WW2. > > Thousands of Aussies, EnZedders, Canadians, South Africans and Rhodesians > trained in Canada for the Empire Air Training Scheme and were posted to > RAF, > RAAF, RCAF units without much regard to nationality. > > The man credited with being the single most "important" part of Britain > winning the Battle of Britain was a Kiwi. > http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-heroes/keith_park.htm > > > > Cheers, > Ted Harris > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Leanne Baulch" <lea.dave@cairns.net.au> > To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 3:15 PM > Subject: WW2-Air Force > > >> Hi everyone, >> >> During WW2 many Aus Air Force people flew missions with the British. Why? > This is just my lack of knowledge coming through here. My great uncle flew > around 22 missions with the British which surprised me. >> >> Also why could they not keep their log books? >> For some reason my great uncle did and hopefully in the next few weeks I > will get to seeit. Should I take photos of the log book? I really feel > this > log book is important. >> >> Thankyou >> Kind regards >> Leanne Baulch >> Canberra >>

Read a book recently which said that 3,500 Australian Airmen were lost over Europe during WWII (included those serving with the RAAF and RAF. Book said that approximately 50,000 Allied Airmen were lost over Europe during WWII. Maurie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lindsay Graham" <LDGraham@aapt.net.au> To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [AUS-MIL] Re: WW2-Air Force > "RAAF lost 5,000 men over Germany." > > Do you mean RAF, Ted? > > Lindsay Graham > Canberra, Australia > ----------------------------------- > Please reply via the newsgroup/mailing list, so that all may benefit from > the discussion. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ted HARRIS" <tedharris@ozemail.com.au> > To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 11:29 AM > Subject: [AUS-MIL] Re: WW2-Air Force > > > > G'day again. > > Very few Aussies understand the HUGE input we had to the RAF in WW2. Even > > when Japan attacked us here we did not need the huge numbers of aircrew > > that > > were needed in Europe. > > > > Here the numbers of planes on both sides was fairly small by world war > > standards and the distances made aircraft carried on ships a better option > > in many cases. > > > > In Europe where they were sending "1,000 Bomber Raids" at night, every > > night > > (Royal Air Force) and "1,000 Bomber Raids" during the day, every day > > (United > > States Army Air Force) plus fighters plus Recon. plus Delivery Flights > > plus > > Coastal Command the demand for pilots and aircrew was staggering. So were > > the losses. RAAF lost 5,000 men over Germany. > > > > It is a section of our Military History that is often glossed over. "The > > Few" saved Britain and I love them for it. The "Heavy Boys" who flew the > > Lancasters and the Wellingtons and the Liberators etc saved the world and > > get forgotten. > > > > I try to set the record straight with www.diggerhistory2.info where I > > reproduce 4 books about the RAAF in WW2. > > > > Thousands of Aussies, EnZedders, Canadians, South Africans and Rhodesians > > trained in Canada for the Empire Air Training Scheme and were posted to > > RAF, > > RAAF, RCAF units without much regard to nationality. > > > > The man credited with being the single most "important" part of Britain > > winning the Battle of Britain was a Kiwi. > > http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-heroes/keith_park.htm > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > Ted Harris > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Leanne Baulch" <lea.dave@cairns.net.au> > > To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 3:15 PM > > Subject: WW2-Air Force > > > > > >> Hi everyone, > >> > >> During WW2 many Aus Air Force people flew missions with the British. Why? > > This is just my lack of knowledge coming through here. My great uncle flew > > around 22 missions with the British which surprised me. > >> > >> Also why could they not keep their log books? > >> For some reason my great uncle did and hopefully in the next few weeks I > > will get to seeit. Should I take photos of the log book? I really feel > > this > > log book is important. > >> > >> Thankyou > >> Kind regards > >> Leanne Baulch > >> Canberra > >> > > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== > First AIF Order of Battle 1914-1918 > http://www.adfa.edu.au/~rmallett/index.html > > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/312 - Release Date: 14/04/06 > >

Lindsay, One wonders, with this comment, whether you actually read Ted's post. And you apparently live in Canberra, too, where your capacity to research things military is enormous. For your information: During WWII, the RAAF lost 5397 killed or died in Europe, with 947 injured. The total killed or died for all other areas was 5165, with 2245 injured. To give you some perspective, I quote AIRCDRE Keith Parsons, "Only three percent of the men who enlisted during WWII were trained as aircrew and posted to the UK or the Middle East, yet from this small group 39 percent of all Australian casualties occurred..." From the above figures, that could be read as 46%, but Parsons may have taken other aspects into account, eg, deaths from sickness (context RAAF). Happy researching David Grierson Lindsay Graham wrote: > "RAAF lost 5,000 men over Germany." > > Do you mean RAF, Ted? > > Lindsay Graham > Canberra, Australia > ----------------------------------- > Please reply via the newsgroup/mailing list, so that all may benefit > from the discussion. > >

No I don't but other posters have given details so I won't. My only comment is that this reaction is not uncommon. People find losses of that sort hard to understand. 10 years in Vietnam gave us 500 casualties KIA and broke our hearts. Imagine 5,000 in 4n years RAAF only. Very few people have any knowledge of the sacrifices RAAF made. As I said, we celebrate "The Few" and forget the "Heavy Boys". Churchill's famous speech is often shortened. Here it is in full Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few. All hearts go out to the Fighter pilots, whose brilliant actions we see with our own eyes day after day, but we must never forget that all the time, night after night, month after month, our bomber squadrons travel far into Germany, find their targets in the darkness.aim their attacks, often under the heaviest fire, often with serious loss.and inflict shattering blows upon the whole of the technical and war-making structure of the Nazi power. Winston Churchill. Cheers, Ted Harris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lindsay Graham" <LDGraham@aapt.net.au> To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [AUS-MIL] Re: WW2-Air Force > "RAAF lost 5,000 men over Germany." > > Do you mean RAF, Ted? > > Lindsay Graham > Canberra, Australia > - --------------------------------- > Please reply via the newsgroup/mailing list, so that all may benefit from > the discussion. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ted HARRIS" <tedharris@ozemail.com.au> > To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 11:29 AM > Subject: [AUS-MIL] Re: WW2-Air Force > > > > G'day again. > > Very few Aussies understand the HUGE input we had to the RAF in WW2. Even > > when Japan attacked us here we did not need the huge numbers of aircrew > > that > > were needed in Europe. > > > > Here the numbers of planes on both sides was fairly small by world war > > standards and the distances made aircraft carried on ships a better option > > in many cases. > > > > In Europe where they were sending "1,000 Bomber Raids" at night, every > > night > > (Royal Air Force) and "1,000 Bomber Raids" during the day, every day > > (United > > States Army Air Force) plus fighters plus Recon. plus Delivery Flights > > plus > > Coastal Command the demand for pilots and aircrew was staggering. So were > > the losses. RAAF lost 5,000 men over Germany. > > > > It is a section of our Military History that is often glossed over. "The > > Few" saved Britain and I love them for it. The "Heavy Boys" who flew the > > Lancasters and the Wellingtons and the Liberators etc saved the world and > > get forgotten. > > > > I try to set the record straight with www.diggerhistory2.info where I > > reproduce 4 books about the RAAF in WW2. > > > > Thousands of Aussies, EnZedders, Canadians, South Africans and Rhodesians > > trained in Canada for the Empire Air Training Scheme and were posted to > > RAF, > > RAAF, RCAF units without much regard to nationality. > > > > The man credited with being the single most "important" part of Britain > > winning the Battle of Britain was a Kiwi. > > http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-heroes/keith_park.htm > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > Ted Harris > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Leanne Baulch" <lea.dave@cairns.net.au> > > To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 3:15 PM > > Subject: WW2-Air Force > > > > > >> Hi everyone, > >> > >> During WW2 many Aus Air Force people flew missions with the British. Why? > > This is just my lack of knowledge coming through here. My great uncle flew > > around 22 missions with the British which surprised me. > >> > >> Also why could they not keep their log books? > >> For some reason my great uncle did and hopefully in the next few weeks I > > will get to seeit. Should I take photos of the log book? I really feel > > this > > log book is important. > >> > >> Thankyou > >> Kind regards > >> Leanne Baulch > >> Canberra > >> > > ______________________________

Thanks, Ted -- I should have known better than to question your advice <g>. Lindsay Graham Canberra, Australia ----------------------------------- Please reply via the newsgroup/mailing list, so that all may benefit from the discussion. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted HARRIS" <tedharris@ozemail.com.au> To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 5:44 AM Subject: Re: [AUS-MIL] Re: WW2-Air Force > No I don't but other posters have given details so I won't. > My only comment is that this reaction is not uncommon. > > People find losses of that sort hard to understand. 10 years in Vietnam > gave > us 500 casualties KIA and broke our hearts. Imagine 5,000 in 4n years RAAF > only. > > Very few people have any knowledge of the sacrifices RAAF made. > > As I said, we celebrate "The Few" and forget the "Heavy Boys". > > Churchill's famous speech is often shortened. Here it is in full > > Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so > few. > All hearts go out to the Fighter pilots, whose brilliant actions we see > with > our own eyes day after day, but we must never forget that all the time, > night after night, month after month, our bomber squadrons travel far into > Germany, find their targets in the darkness.aim their attacks, often under > the heaviest fire, often with serious loss.and inflict shattering blows > upon > the whole of the technical and war-making structure of the Nazi power. > Winston Churchill. > > Cheers, > Ted Harris > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lindsay Graham" <LDGraham@aapt.net.au> > To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 4:21 PM > Subject: Re: [AUS-MIL] Re: WW2-Air Force > > >> "RAAF lost 5,000 men over Germany." >> >> Do you mean RAF, Ted? >> >> Lindsay Graham >> Canberra, Australia >> - --------------------------------- >> Please reply via the newsgroup/mailing list, so that all may benefit from >> the discussion. >> <snip>