I find it ironic that Australia and Australians still have difficulty in coming to grips with the fact that Asian people do not see life through the same prism as Anglo Saxons in particular or Europeans in general. In many ways they are different. Note the word DIFFERENT. Not better, not worse....different. Go live amongst them, as I have done. All will be revealed. Their religion/s are different and mostly embrace fast reincarnation after death. (So death is not as important to them). They have a different attitude to family and the responsibilities that come with a family. (Retreat is a stain on the character of the entire family for ever through eternity to them, a military necessity sometimes, to us) They have a different attitude to wealth. (Throughout Asia the most incredible poverty lives side by side with the most incredible wealth). Why then do we find it difficult to understand that their approach to war is different. Dying for the Emperor was their way. Killing the enemy in the name of our King was our way. A wounded soldier was a nuisance was their way. A wounded man required special treatment was our way. Being a POW was a matter of shame to them. Being a POW was a matter of bad luck to us. Killing an enemy POW was 'normal' to them. Killing an enemy POW was against all our rules and nature/s. Sinking hospital ships, beheading prisoners, slaughtering civilians, using POWs as bayonet dummies, indeed even starting the war in the Pacific with a sneak raid while protesting total abhorrence for war at the political level are all things that are on the record as proven fact. None of those things wore the Australian Rising Sun badge. Yes they are different. We better get used to it. Did we sink hospital ships? No. How am I sure? Because if we had the revisionists and the do gooders and the anti-Western (read Australian) guilt makers in our society would have been shoving it down our throats for years as "further proof" that we are responsible for all the bad things in the world. Cheers, Ted Harris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Staunton" <anthony.staunton@pcug.org.au> To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 11:37 PM Subject: RE: [AUS-MIL] Hospital Ships > Jan > > The claim that allies had attacked Japanese hospital ships was first aired > 38 hours after the Centaur was sunk. As the Naval official historian states > it could have been a coincidence but it suggests an attempt to forestall an > Australian announcements and condemnation of the attack on the Centaur. See > http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/25/chapters/09.pdf pages 257-261. > > Anthony > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jan Thomas [mailto:jthomas4@bigpond.net.au] > Sent: Saturday, 13 May 2006 10:21 PM > To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [AUS-MIL] Hospital Ships > > Dear Anthony > > Thanks for your reply. > > Periodically throughout my life I have heard stories that the Centaur was > sunk in retaliation for Allied attacks on a Japanese hospital ship or ships. > > The most recent yesterday at a Centaur Memorial Service. > > I am secretary and founder of the 2/3 AHS Centaur Association established in > > 1999 for survivors, descendants, relatives and friends, or indeed anyone > with any sort of interest in the Centaur. > > Rumours surrounding the Centaur are rife and still surfacing after 63 years. > > They are very hurtful to those whose lives have been affected by her loss, > and I am trying to verify or scotch as many as I can. > > If this allegation is just another rumour, I need to be able to state > factually that the Allies did not attack Japanese hospital ships. But I > need concrete evidence - which of course is very hard to find in the > negative. Perhaps the way for me to go is to follow your line that Japan > didn't have hospital ships, or ships that were internationally recognized as > > such. > > Thanks again > > > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== > Milton Ulladulla Boer War & WW1 > http://www.shoalhaven.net.au/~cathyd/war/ >

Jan The claim that allies had attacked Japanese hospital ships was first aired 38 hours after the Centaur was sunk. As the Naval official historian states it could have been a coincidence but it suggests an attempt to forestall an Australian announcements and condemnation of the attack on the Centaur. See http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/25/chapters/09.pdf pages 257-261. Anthony -----Original Message----- From: Jan Thomas [mailto:jthomas4@bigpond.net.au] Sent: Saturday, 13 May 2006 10:21 PM To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-MIL] Hospital Ships Dear Anthony Thanks for your reply. Periodically throughout my life I have heard stories that the Centaur was sunk in retaliation for Allied attacks on a Japanese hospital ship or ships. The most recent yesterday at a Centaur Memorial Service. I am secretary and founder of the 2/3 AHS Centaur Association established in 1999 for survivors, descendants, relatives and friends, or indeed anyone with any sort of interest in the Centaur. Rumours surrounding the Centaur are rife and still surfacing after 63 years. They are very hurtful to those whose lives have been affected by her loss, and I am trying to verify or scotch as many as I can. If this allegation is just another rumour, I need to be able to state factually that the Allies did not attack Japanese hospital ships. But I need concrete evidence - which of course is very hard to find in the negative. Perhaps the way for me to go is to follow your line that Japan didn't have hospital ships, or ships that were internationally recognized as such. Thanks again ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== Milton Ulladulla Boer War & WW1 http://www.shoalhaven.net.au/~cathyd/war/

Dear Anthony Thanks for your reply. Periodically throughout my life I have heard stories that the Centaur was sunk in retaliation for Allied attacks on a Japanese hospital ship or ships. The most recent yesterday at a Centaur Memorial Service. I am secretary and founder of the 2/3 AHS Centaur Association established in 1999 for survivors, descendants, relatives and friends, or indeed anyone with any sort of interest in the Centaur. Rumours surrounding the Centaur are rife and still surfacing after 63 years. They are very hurtful to those whose lives have been affected by her loss, and I am trying to verify or scotch as many as I can. If this allegation is just another rumour, I need to be able to state factually that the Allies did not attack Japanese hospital ships. But I need concrete evidence - which of course is very hard to find in the negative. Perhaps the way for me to go is to follow your line that Japan didn't have hospital ships, or ships that were internationally recognized as such. Thanks again

The website of the Military Historical Society of Australia at http://www.pcug.org.au/~astaunto/mhsa.htm has moved. If you linked to that the site, thank you and could you now link to http://www.mhsa.org.au/ The Military Historical Society of Australia was founded in Melbourne in 1957.  Its aims are the encouragement and pursuit of study and research in military history, customs, traditions, dress, arms, equipment and kindred matters; the promotion of public interest and knowledge in these subjects, and the preservation of historical military objects with particular reference to the armed forces of Australia. The website is http://www.mhsa.org.au/ What book am I reading at http://www.mhsa.org.au/FedCouncil_biog/staunton_biog.htm Anthony Staunton Editor Sabretache, the quarterly journal of the Military Historical Society of Australia

The report of the Joint Parliamentary Committee on the SYDNEY is an excellent, well balanced summary of the controversy. It's on the web at: http://www.aph.gov.au/house/committee/jfadt/sydney/reportinx.htm Ric Pelvin > >Thank you. One of the books re the loss of the "Sydney" which I, >personally, >found to be the most credible was - "HMAS Sydney-Fact, Fantasy and Fraud" >by Barbara Winter. I guess the shock of losing "Sydney" was too enormous >to >contemplate unless there was some "skull duggery" involved. Winter's >research is in depth and supported by various records still available >today. >Where she states an "opinion" her backgrounding of the possible decisions, >including what may have pressured/prompted the decision maker is excellent. >In particular the reason why Capt. Joe Burnett may have approached too >closely and without any seeming suspicion that his opponent was the >"Kormoran". It is hard to accept but I believe "Sydney" was bested by a >better prepared, trained and experienced foe. > >Maurie > >The attitude of the IJN toward Hospital ships appears to be ambivalent. >They >sank the "Centaur" but illuminated the Hospital ship in Milne Bay and did >not fire on it. Perhaps all were not barbarians. > >Maurie >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Anthony Staunton" <anthony.staunton@pcug.org.au> >To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 11:37 AM >Subject: RE: [AUS-MIL] Montevideo Maru > > > > Maurie > > > > Do not worry - being picky is quite OK. > > > > Thank you, Maritime is more accurate. However, I was thinking in terms >of > > reports that gave the impression that the loss of HMAS Sydney was the > > greatest loss of Australian life at sea. > > > > Anthony > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Maurie [mailto:henery1@tpg.com.au] > > Sent: Saturday, 13 May 2006 11:15 AM > > To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [AUS-MIL] Hospital Ships > > > > Being picky here. "Montevideo Maru" was a Japanese vessel. ( uncertain >as >to > > whether or it was even IJN). The bulk of those Australian Service >personnel > > killed were Army. Therefore "Sydney" was the worst NAVAL disaster. > > "Montevideo Maru" may have been the worst MARITIME disaster involving >the > > loss of life for Australian Servic personnel. This does not make it the > > worst NAVAL disaster. > > > > Maurie > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Anthony Staunton" <anthony.staunton@pcug.org.au> > > To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 9:43 AM > > Subject: RE: [AUS-MIL] Hospital Ships > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > You are probably correct. Jan may have been referring to Australian >POWs > > in > > > unmarked Japanese ships sunk by US submarines. > > > > > > On 1 July 1942 the Montevideo Maru was sunk with no survivors among >the > > 1200 > > > Australian soldiers and civilians captured at Rabaul. There were more > > > sinkings in 1944 but there were survivors picked up by US submarines. >One > > of > > > Don Wall's books was on the sinkings. The official history which is >online > > > mentions the ships. > > > See: http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/20/chapters/25.pdf > > > > > > Anthony Staunton > > > > > > PS You often see reference to the loss of HMAS Sydney as Australia's > > > greatest naval tragedy but that sad honour belongs to the Montevideo >Maru. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Mike Boyd [mailto:mikejboyd@bigpond.com] > > > Sent: Saturday, 13 May 2006 8:33 AM > > > To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [AUS-MIL] Hospital Ships > > > > > > Jan > > > When was working in Rabul in the 1960's, it was said that a number of > > POW's > > > were put on ships to Japan and were never seen again. > > > > > > I can't recall what period this was in the War - 1943 or so I think >after > > > being told 40 years ago. So ships like this could have been sunk by >the > > > Allies without even knowing that there were POW's on board.. > > > > > > It was also said that a number of POW's were still buried in the >Tunnels > > in > > > Rabul. On my first day in Rabul, I was told do not go into the >tunnels >as > > > we do not have any maps of where they go. > > > > > > Mike Boyd > > > Brisbane > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Anthony Staunton" <anthony.staunton@pcug.org.au> > > > To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 9:27 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AUS-MIL] Hospital Ships > > > > > > > > > > Jan > > > > > > > > What are the allegations that the allies attacked Japanese hospital > > ships. > > > > > > > > It seems unlikely since Japan did not have ships that were > > internationally > > > > recognised as hospital ships along the lines of the Centaur. The >Centaur > > > > was > > > > painted white, had large red crosses on its sides, was illuminated >at > > > > night, > > > > carried casualties and medical supplies but no war material. > > > > > > > > I do not think that evacuation of casualties had a high priority in > > > > Japanese > > > > war plans. > > > > > > > > Anthony Staunton > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Jan Thomas [mailto:jthomas4@bigpond.net.au] > > > > Sent: Friday, 12 May 2006 8:40 PM > > > > To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com > > > > Subject: [AUS-MIL] Hospital Ships > > > > > > > > Can anyone refer me to any factual information on the allegation >that > > > > the Allies attacked Japanese hospital ships during WW2? Any help > > > > much appreciated. > > > > > > > > Jan Thomas > > > > on the banks of the beautiful Hawkesbury River > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== > > > RAAF Museum > > > http://www.raafmuseum.com.au/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - Release Date: 8/05/06 > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== > > AUS-MILITARY is set so that, by default, replies go to the list. Please > > check your replies before sending, to make sure that is what you know is > > happening. > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== > > RAAF Museum > > http://www.raafmuseum.com.au/ > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - Release Date: 8/05/06 > > > > > > >==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== >First AIF Order of Battle 1914-1918 >http://www.adfa.edu.au/~rmallett/index.html >

A new book on NZ Army Personal Equipment, well illustrated - John Wilson See website: http://www.willsonscott.biz/Home.html Author: O'Sullivan, Barry. Title: New Zealand Army personal equipment 1910-1945 / Barry O'Sullivan, Matthew O'Sullivan. Publisher: [Christchurch, N.Z.] : Willson Scott Pub., c2005. ISBN: 0958253595 : Description: 352 p. : ill. ; 27 cm. Subject: New Zealand. Army--Equipment--History--20th century. Military paraphernalia--New Zealand. World War, 1914-1918--Equipment and supplies. World War, 1939-1945--Equipment and supplies. New Zealand--History, Military--20th century.

Thank you. One of the books re the loss of the "Sydney" which I, personally, found to be the most credible was - "HMAS Sydney-Fact, Fantasy and Fraud" by Barbara Winter. I guess the shock of losing "Sydney" was too enormous to contemplate unless there was some "skull duggery" involved. Winter's research is in depth and supported by various records still available today. Where she states an "opinion" her backgrounding of the possible decisions, including what may have pressured/prompted the decision maker is excellent. In particular the reason why Capt. Joe Burnett may have approached too closely and without any seeming suspicion that his opponent was the "Kormoran". It is hard to accept but I believe "Sydney" was bested by a better prepared, trained and experienced foe. Maurie The attitude of the IJN toward Hospital ships appears to be ambivalent. They sank the "Centaur" but illuminated the Hospital ship in Milne Bay and did not fire on it. Perhaps all were not barbarians. Maurie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Staunton" <anthony.staunton@pcug.org.au> To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 11:37 AM Subject: RE: [AUS-MIL] Montevideo Maru > Maurie > > Do not worry - being picky is quite OK. > > Thank you, Maritime is more accurate. However, I was thinking in terms of > reports that gave the impression that the loss of HMAS Sydney was the > greatest loss of Australian life at sea. > > Anthony > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Maurie [mailto:henery1@tpg.com.au] > Sent: Saturday, 13 May 2006 11:15 AM > To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [AUS-MIL] Hospital Ships > > Being picky here. "Montevideo Maru" was a Japanese vessel. ( uncertain as to > whether or it was even IJN). The bulk of those Australian Service personnel > killed were Army. Therefore "Sydney" was the worst NAVAL disaster. > "Montevideo Maru" may have been the worst MARITIME disaster involving the > loss of life for Australian Servic personnel. This does not make it the > worst NAVAL disaster. > > Maurie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anthony Staunton" <anthony.staunton@pcug.org.au> > To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 9:43 AM > Subject: RE: [AUS-MIL] Hospital Ships > > > > Mike > > > > You are probably correct. Jan may have been referring to Australian POWs > in > > unmarked Japanese ships sunk by US submarines. > > > > On 1 July 1942 the Montevideo Maru was sunk with no survivors among the > 1200 > > Australian soldiers and civilians captured at Rabaul. There were more > > sinkings in 1944 but there were survivors picked up by US submarines. One > of > > Don Wall's books was on the sinkings. The official history which is online > > mentions the ships. > > See: http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/20/chapters/25.pdf > > > > Anthony Staunton > > > > PS You often see reference to the loss of HMAS Sydney as Australia's > > greatest naval tragedy but that sad honour belongs to the Montevideo Maru. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mike Boyd [mailto:mikejboyd@bigpond.com] > > Sent: Saturday, 13 May 2006 8:33 AM > > To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [AUS-MIL] Hospital Ships > > > > Jan > > When was working in Rabul in the 1960's, it was said that a number of > POW's > > were put on ships to Japan and were never seen again. > > > > I can't recall what period this was in the War - 1943 or so I think after > > being told 40 years ago. So ships like this could have been sunk by the > > Allies without even knowing that there were POW's on board.. > > > > It was also said that a number of POW's were still buried in the Tunnels > in > > Rabul. On my first day in Rabul, I was told do not go into the tunnels as > > we do not have any maps of where they go. > > > > Mike Boyd > > Brisbane > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Anthony Staunton" <anthony.staunton@pcug.org.au> > > To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 9:27 PM > > Subject: RE: [AUS-MIL] Hospital Ships > > > > > > > Jan > > > > > > What are the allegations that the allies attacked Japanese hospital > ships. > > > > > > It seems unlikely since Japan did not have ships that were > internationally > > > recognised as hospital ships along the lines of the Centaur. The Centaur > > > was > > > painted white, had large red crosses on its sides, was illuminated at > > > night, > > > carried casualties and medical supplies but no war material. > > > > > > I do not think that evacuation of casualties had a high priority in > > > Japanese > > > war plans. > > > > > > Anthony Staunton > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Jan Thomas [mailto:jthomas4@bigpond.net.au] > > > Sent: Friday, 12 May 2006 8:40 PM > > > To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: [AUS-MIL] Hospital Ships > > > > > > Can anyone refer me to any factual information on the allegation that > > > the Allies attacked Japanese hospital ships during WW2? Any help > > > much appreciated. > > > > > > Jan Thomas > > > on the banks of the beautiful Hawkesbury River > > > > > > > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== > > RAAF Museum > > http://www.raafmuseum.com.au/ > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - Release Date: 8/05/06 > > > > > > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== > AUS-MILITARY is set so that, by default, replies go to the list. Please > check your replies before sending, to make sure that is what you know is > happening. > > > > > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== > RAAF Museum > http://www.raafmuseum.com.au/ > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - Release Date: 8/05/06 > >

The USS Pampanito picked up some Allied POW survivors from the Rakuyo Maru on her third patrol, see: http://www.maritime.org/patrol3.htm Yours, John Wilson

Maurie Do not worry - being picky is quite OK. Thank you, Maritime is more accurate. However, I was thinking in terms of reports that gave the impression that the loss of HMAS Sydney was the greatest loss of Australian life at sea. Anthony -----Original Message----- From: Maurie [mailto:henery1@tpg.com.au] Sent: Saturday, 13 May 2006 11:15 AM To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-MIL] Hospital Ships Being picky here. "Montevideo Maru" was a Japanese vessel. ( uncertain as to whether or it was even IJN). The bulk of those Australian Service personnel killed were Army. Therefore "Sydney" was the worst NAVAL disaster. "Montevideo Maru" may have been the worst MARITIME disaster involving the loss of life for Australian Servic personnel. This does not make it the worst NAVAL disaster. Maurie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Staunton" <anthony.staunton@pcug.org.au> To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 9:43 AM Subject: RE: [AUS-MIL] Hospital Ships > Mike > > You are probably correct. Jan may have been referring to Australian POWs in > unmarked Japanese ships sunk by US submarines. > > On 1 July 1942 the Montevideo Maru was sunk with no survivors among the 1200 > Australian soldiers and civilians captured at Rabaul. There were more > sinkings in 1944 but there were survivors picked up by US submarines. One of > Don Wall's books was on the sinkings. The official history which is online > mentions the ships. > See: http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/20/chapters/25.pdf > > Anthony Staunton > > PS You often see reference to the loss of HMAS Sydney as Australia's > greatest naval tragedy but that sad honour belongs to the Montevideo Maru. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Boyd [mailto:mikejboyd@bigpond.com] > Sent: Saturday, 13 May 2006 8:33 AM > To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [AUS-MIL] Hospital Ships > > Jan > When was working in Rabul in the 1960's, it was said that a number of POW's > were put on ships to Japan and were never seen again. > > I can't recall what period this was in the War - 1943 or so I think after > being told 40 years ago. So ships like this could have been sunk by the > Allies without even knowing that there were POW's on board.. > > It was also said that a number of POW's were still buried in the Tunnels in > Rabul. On my first day in Rabul, I was told do not go into the tunnels as > we do not have any maps of where they go. > > Mike Boyd > Brisbane > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anthony Staunton" <anthony.staunton@pcug.org.au> > To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 9:27 PM > Subject: RE: [AUS-MIL] Hospital Ships > > > > Jan > > > > What are the allegations that the allies attacked Japanese hospital ships. > > > > It seems unlikely since Japan did not have ships that were internationally > > recognised as hospital ships along the lines of the Centaur. The Centaur > > was > > painted white, had large red crosses on its sides, was illuminated at > > night, > > carried casualties and medical supplies but no war material. > > > > I do not think that evacuation of casualties had a high priority in > > Japanese > > war plans. > > > > Anthony Staunton > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jan Thomas [mailto:jthomas4@bigpond.net.au] > > Sent: Friday, 12 May 2006 8:40 PM > > To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [AUS-MIL] Hospital Ships > > > > Can anyone refer me to any factual information on the allegation that > > the Allies attacked Japanese hospital ships during WW2? Any help > > much appreciated. > > > > Jan Thomas > > on the banks of the beautiful Hawkesbury River > > > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== > RAAF Museum > http://www.raafmuseum.com.au/ > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - Release Date: 8/05/06 > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== AUS-MILITARY is set so that, by default, replies go to the list. Please check your replies before sending, to make sure that is what you know is happening.

Being picky here. "Montevideo Maru" was a Japanese vessel. ( uncertain as to whether or it was even IJN). The bulk of those Australian Service personnel killed were Army. Therefore "Sydney" was the worst NAVAL disaster. "Montevideo Maru" may have been the worst MARITIME disaster involving the loss of life for Australian Servic personnel. This does not make it the worst NAVAL disaster. Maurie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Staunton" <anthony.staunton@pcug.org.au> To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 9:43 AM Subject: RE: [AUS-MIL] Hospital Ships > Mike > > You are probably correct. Jan may have been referring to Australian POWs in > unmarked Japanese ships sunk by US submarines. > > On 1 July 1942 the Montevideo Maru was sunk with no survivors among the 1200 > Australian soldiers and civilians captured at Rabaul. There were more > sinkings in 1944 but there were survivors picked up by US submarines. One of > Don Wall's books was on the sinkings. The official history which is online > mentions the ships. > See: http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/20/chapters/25.pdf > > Anthony Staunton > > PS You often see reference to the loss of HMAS Sydney as Australia's > greatest naval tragedy but that sad honour belongs to the Montevideo Maru. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Boyd [mailto:mikejboyd@bigpond.com] > Sent: Saturday, 13 May 2006 8:33 AM > To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [AUS-MIL] Hospital Ships > > Jan > When was working in Rabul in the 1960's, it was said that a number of POW's > were put on ships to Japan and were never seen again. > > I can't recall what period this was in the War - 1943 or so I think after > being told 40 years ago. So ships like this could have been sunk by the > Allies without even knowing that there were POW's on board.. > > It was also said that a number of POW's were still buried in the Tunnels in > Rabul. On my first day in Rabul, I was told do not go into the tunnels as > we do not have any maps of where they go. > > Mike Boyd > Brisbane > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anthony Staunton" <anthony.staunton@pcug.org.au> > To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 9:27 PM > Subject: RE: [AUS-MIL] Hospital Ships > > > > Jan > > > > What are the allegations that the allies attacked Japanese hospital ships. > > > > It seems unlikely since Japan did not have ships that were internationally > > recognised as hospital ships along the lines of the Centaur. The Centaur > > was > > painted white, had large red crosses on its sides, was illuminated at > > night, > > carried casualties and medical supplies but no war material. > > > > I do not think that evacuation of casualties had a high priority in > > Japanese > > war plans. > > > > Anthony Staunton > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jan Thomas [mailto:jthomas4@bigpond.net.au] > > Sent: Friday, 12 May 2006 8:40 PM > > To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [AUS-MIL] Hospital Ships > > > > Can anyone refer me to any factual information on the allegation that > > the Allies attacked Japanese hospital ships during WW2? Any help > > much appreciated. > > > > Jan Thomas > > on the banks of the beautiful Hawkesbury River > > > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== > RAAF Museum > http://www.raafmuseum.com.au/ > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - Release Date: 8/05/06 > >

Mike You are probably correct. Jan may have been referring to Australian POWs in unmarked Japanese ships sunk by US submarines. On 1 July 1942 the Montevideo Maru was sunk with no survivors among the 1200 Australian soldiers and civilians captured at Rabaul. There were more sinkings in 1944 but there were survivors picked up by US submarines. One of Don Wall's books was on the sinkings. The official history which is online mentions the ships. See: http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/20/chapters/25.pdf Anthony Staunton PS You often see reference to the loss of HMAS Sydney as Australia's greatest naval tragedy but that sad honour belongs to the Montevideo Maru. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Boyd [mailto:mikejboyd@bigpond.com] Sent: Saturday, 13 May 2006 8:33 AM To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-MIL] Hospital Ships Jan When was working in Rabul in the 1960's, it was said that a number of POW's were put on ships to Japan and were never seen again. I can't recall what period this was in the War - 1943 or so I think after being told 40 years ago. So ships like this could have been sunk by the Allies without even knowing that there were POW's on board.. It was also said that a number of POW's were still buried in the Tunnels in Rabul. On my first day in Rabul, I was told do not go into the tunnels as we do not have any maps of where they go. Mike Boyd Brisbane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Staunton" <anthony.staunton@pcug.org.au> To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 9:27 PM Subject: RE: [AUS-MIL] Hospital Ships > Jan > > What are the allegations that the allies attacked Japanese hospital ships. > > It seems unlikely since Japan did not have ships that were internationally > recognised as hospital ships along the lines of the Centaur. The Centaur > was > painted white, had large red crosses on its sides, was illuminated at > night, > carried casualties and medical supplies but no war material. > > I do not think that evacuation of casualties had a high priority in > Japanese > war plans. > > Anthony Staunton > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jan Thomas [mailto:jthomas4@bigpond.net.au] > Sent: Friday, 12 May 2006 8:40 PM > To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [AUS-MIL] Hospital Ships > > Can anyone refer me to any factual information on the allegation that > the Allies attacked Japanese hospital ships during WW2? Any help > much appreciated. > > Jan Thomas > on the banks of the beautiful Hawkesbury River

Jan When was working in Rabul in the 1960's, it was said that a number of POW's were put on ships to Japan and were never seen again. I can't recall what period this was in the War - 1943 or so I think after being told 40 years ago. So ships like this could have been sunk by the Allies without even knowing that there were POW's on board.. It was also said that a number of POW's were still buried in the Tunnels in Rabul. On my first day in Rabul, I was told do not go into the tunnels as we do not have any maps of where they go. Mike Boyd Brisbane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Staunton" <anthony.staunton@pcug.org.au> To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 9:27 PM Subject: RE: [AUS-MIL] Hospital Ships > Jan > > What are the allegations that the allies attacked Japanese hospital ships. > > It seems unlikely since Japan did not have ships that were internationally > recognised as hospital ships along the lines of the Centaur. The Centaur > was > painted white, had large red crosses on its sides, was illuminated at > night, > carried casualties and medical supplies but no war material. > > I do not think that evacuation of casualties had a high priority in > Japanese > war plans. > > Anthony Staunton > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jan Thomas [mailto:jthomas4@bigpond.net.au] > Sent: Friday, 12 May 2006 8:40 PM > To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [AUS-MIL] Hospital Ships > > Can anyone refer me to any factual information on the allegation that > the Allies attacked Japanese hospital ships during WW2? Any help > much appreciated. > > Jan Thomas > on the banks of the beautiful Hawkesbury River > > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== > AUS-MILITARY is set so that, by default, replies go to the list. Please > check your replies before sending, to make sure that is what you know is > happening. > > > > > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== > Anzac Research > http://anzacresearch.tripod.com/index.htm >

Jan What are the allegations that the allies attacked Japanese hospital ships. It seems unlikely since Japan did not have ships that were internationally recognised as hospital ships along the lines of the Centaur. The Centaur was painted white, had large red crosses on its sides, was illuminated at night, carried casualties and medical supplies but no war material. I do not think that evacuation of casualties had a high priority in Japanese war plans. Anthony Staunton -----Original Message----- From: Jan Thomas [mailto:jthomas4@bigpond.net.au] Sent: Friday, 12 May 2006 8:40 PM To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-MIL] Hospital Ships Can anyone refer me to any factual information on the allegation that the Allies attacked Japanese hospital ships during WW2? Any help much appreciated. Jan Thomas on the banks of the beautiful Hawkesbury River ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== AUS-MILITARY is set so that, by default, replies go to the list. Please check your replies before sending, to make sure that is what you know is happening.

Can anyone refer me to any factual information on the allegation that the Allies attacked Japanese hospital ships during WW2? Any help much appreciated. Jan Thomas on the banks of the beautiful Hawkesbury River

Talking about Internet auction houses let me have my whinge. (Please). Australian and New Zealand heritage matters (particularly military, which is my area of interest) is being sucked up into the whirlpool of USA based collectors at a rate that is almost unbelievable. I was recently made aware of a "genuine" early Australian Flying Corps 'wings' badge by a bloke in Scotland. I have my doubts about it being "genuine" but if it was I would put a value on it at about AUD $100 to $150. It sold on the big auction house to an American collector for over $1,100 in USD. Amazing. Another recent sale was an Australian badge of the 1st Australian Horse, a unit that pre-dates Federation. Current local value for a repro (and I think this was one) about AUD $12.oo. An American collector snapped it up at over One Thousand dollars. I hope air fares keep dropping so I can go to the USA to see all the Australian memorabilia Cheers, Ted Harris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Barraclough" <kapana@netspace.net.au> To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 3:24 PM Subject: [Admin] Books for SALE > Just a reminder to everyone that Rootsweb lists are strictly > non-commercial, and advertising items for sale and promoting eBay > auctions fits into this category. There is a commercial list > somewhere within Rootsweb for that - don't ask me where. > > Not sure how we stand when we want to start telling people about > medals and military material for sale on eBay, especially significant > decorations. Strictly that is a no-no too, but I reckon I can cope > with people pointing them out if they are not in any way associated > with the selling of it. Just don't tell anyone I said that. > > But offering items for sale on Rootsweb lists is not on. > > Cheers > > Linda > List-admin AUS-MILITARY on what is starting to look like a bad hair day > > ______________________________

I will be out of the office starting 11/05/2006 and will not return until 15/05/2006. Thank you for your email. For urgent work related matters, please contact Cameron Cook on ccook@siag.com.au or 03 9417 9999. -- Message protected by MailGuard: e-mail anti-virus, anti-spam and content filtering. http://www.mailguard.com.au/mg

Just a reminder to everyone that Rootsweb lists are strictly non-commercial, and advertising items for sale and promoting eBay auctions fits into this category. There is a commercial list somewhere within Rootsweb for that - don't ask me where. Not sure how we stand when we want to start telling people about medals and military material for sale on eBay, especially significant decorations. Strictly that is a no-no too, but I reckon I can cope with people pointing them out if they are not in any way associated with the selling of it. Just don't tell anyone I said that. But offering items for sale on Rootsweb lists is not on. Cheers Linda List-admin AUS-MILITARY on what is starting to look like a bad hair day

I have listed a whole stack of Books relating to Aust Genealogy on E-bay for sale Clearing the bookshelves and spare room out of excesses that I no longer need. Search under Genealogy on E-bay Regards Susan Stubbs stubbinsky@optusnet.com.au mini_monster@optusnet.com.au

Hello Linda The rising sun reminds me of some post war cutlery that I have which looks identical to the photo in your link. Fork and spoon stamped in handle and knife etched in the blade. The writing in the scroll will help date it. WW1 and WW2 rising sun scrolls read "Australian Commonwealth Military Forces" if its post WW2 it will read "Australian Military Forces", with current ones reading "The Australian Army" I agree with Ted that they are from an Officers mess, possibly "borrowed" if the donor had no rank. WW2 issue cutlery from "Other Ranks" in my collection is marked simply "D^D" and in some samples Sgts. Mess. Regards Davin Evans >From: "Ted HARRIS" <tedharris@ozemail.com.au> >Reply-To: "Ted HARRIS" <tedharris@ozemail.com.au> >To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [AUS-MIL] Re: Dating some cutlery >Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 16:18:48 +1000 > >Well to start with who ever he was he must have been an Officer. > >Nothing so flash for the troops. > >Secondly I doubt that it was personal issue. Looks to me more like Officers >Mess 'fighting irons". > >However all of the above is a GUESS. > >Cheers, >Ted Harris >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Linda Barraclough" <kapana@netspace.net.au> >To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 9:30 PM >Subject: Dating some cutlery > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > I am attempting to date some cutlery - or confirm what I have been told >. > > > > There is a picture at >http://static.flickr.com/50/143363743_662002794c_o.jpg > > > > and I am told at the small museum where I am cataloguing them, that > > they are part of the donor's father's mess kit from the 1939-1945 > > war. They just look too modern to me. > > > > There is an Australian Army insignia stamped on the handles of the > > forks and the blade of the knife, but little else to help. > > > > Would anyone be able to comment???? > > > > Thanks! > > > > Linda > > > > ______________________________ > > >==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== >AUS-MILITARY is set so that, by default, replies go to the list. Please >check your replies before sending, to make sure that is what you know is >happening. > _________________________________________________________________ New year, new job – there's more than 100,00 jobs at SEEK http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau&_t=752315885&_r=Jan05_tagline&_m=EXT

The Signals Corps did tremendous work in running telephone lines through the jungles of the Owen Stanleys. Often right up to IN FRONT OF the 'front line' I cannot be precise about that particular unit but if you look at http://www.diggerhistory2.info/army/signals/00-signals.htm you will get an overview of their work Cheers, Ted Harris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leanne Baulch" <lea.dave@cairns.net.au> To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 9:57 AM Subject: Jungle Trunk Line > Hi everyone, > > Looking at some service details I have come across under Posting at Discharge 7 Aust Jungle Trunk Line Maint Sec. > > Could anyone possibly explain this for me. > > Also a very big thankyou on all advice re my RAAf queries. > > Kindest regards > Leanne Baulch > Canberra > > ______________________________