Good evening Anne and Loretta, The information on Sgt.Goodman same from the Victorian Military Forces Nominal Roll for the Third ( or Bushmen's) Contingent to South Africa. These are held at the Victorian State Archives. The information differs slightly between the contingents. I visited his grave whilst in in South Africa in 2000. His brother is listed as NOK and no mention of his wife. My collecting interests are based around Victorians in the Boer War and over the years I have gathered a reasonable amount of information. Regards, George Ward -----Original Message----- From: Anne Hanson [mailto:ahanson8@bigpond.com] Sent: Friday, 23 June 2006 12:35 PM To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [AUS-MIL] Herbert Goodman George, Thank you very much indeed. Now this is just me being curious but can you tell me where the information below came from - I did at one stage end up on a Boer War site but had no idea of what I was doing. I was about to presume that because his n.o.k. was listed as being in California that perhaps Herbert and the brother were Americans but perhaps I shouldn't. Also I was surprised that his wife, Anna Gillespie McMillan was not listed as his next of kin. Cheers Anne Hanson -----Original Message----- From: George Ward [mailto:wardfam@alphalink.com.au] Sent: Friday, 23 June 2006 7:09 AM To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [AUS-MIL] Herbert Goodman Good morning Anne, His details on the roll state, No 395 Herbert John Goodman born 13th August 1861, married with one child, occupation Drover, care of the Mansfield Post Office,N.O.K. Brother C.H.Goodman,Ball's Ferry Chasty County California. Church of England, 5ft 11.25 inches, 37 inch chest. He is buried at Rustenburg. Regards George Ward -----Original Message----- From: Anne Hanson [mailto:ahanson8@bigpond.com] Sent: Thursday, 22 June 2006 5:54 PM To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-MIL] A silly question perhaps Good Evening All, In Mansfield, Victoria there is a Boer War Memorial which has the following inscription: THIS OBELISK WAS ERECTED BY A FEW ADMIRERS TO THE MEMORY OF HERBERT JOHN GOODMAN SERGEANT VICTORIAN BUSHMEN CORPS, KILLED IN ACTION AT KOSTEO RIVER, SOUTH AFRICA 22ND JULY 1900 WHILST HONORABLY UPHOLDING THE PRESTIGE OF QUEEN AND EMPIRE. "NO SURRENDER". Based on the date of death above I searched the Victorian Digger Federation BDM index and was unable to find a death in the name of Herbert John GOODMAN. So now I'm wondering if an Australian citizen died overseas while on active service was there a death certificate issued for that person and if so, by whom? I am keen to know this as I am attempting to find out who Herbert John GOODMAN's parent were. All I have so far is his marriage entry (see below) and although it says he was born in Benalla I've been unable to find same. Digger - Pioneer Index. Victoria 1836-1888 Surname: GOODMAN Given Names: Herbert John Event: M Spouse Surname/Father: MCMILLAN Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Anna Gillespie Age: Sex: M Birth Place: BENALLA Death Place: Year: 1881 Reg Number: 4546 Any suggestions/help would be appreciated. Cheers Anne Hanson -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date: 20/06/2006 ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== Milton Ulladulla Boer War & WW1 http://www.shoalhaven.net.au/~cathyd/war/ ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== Please support RootsWeb who make this list possible http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date: 20/06/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date: 20/06/2006 ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== Anzac Research http://anzacresearch.tripod.com/index.htm

Hi Anne There's a bit of information about him here: http://www.pcug.org.au/~croe/ozb/oz_boer_more.cgi?record=7122 Also, he was married with 1 child, Cof E and his next of kin in Chasty Co. California was a brother, CH GOODMAN which may help to pin him down. Regards Colin Roe On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 12:00 pm, Anne Hanson wrote in AUS-MILITARY-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > A silly question perhaps > From: > "Anne Hanson" <ahanson8@bigpond.com> > To: > AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com > Date: > Thu Jun 22 17:53:59 2006 >   > Good Evening All, > > In Mansfield, Victoria  there is a Boer War Memorial which has the > following inscription: > > THIS OBELISK > WAS ERECTED BY A FEW ADMIRERS > TO THE MEMORY OF > HERBERT JOHN GOODMAN > SERGEANT VICTORIAN BUSHMEN > CORPS, KILLED IN ACTION AT KOSTEO > RIVER, SOUTH AFRICA 22ND JULY 1900 > WHILST HONORABLY UPHOLDING THE > PRESTIGE OF QUEEN AND EMPIRE. > "NO SURRENDER". > > Based on the date of death above I searched the Victorian Digger Federation > BDM index and was unable to find a death in the name of Herbert John > GOODMAN. So now I'm wondering if an Australian citizen died overseas while > on active service was there a death certificate issued for that person and > if so, by whom? > > I am keen to know this as I am attempting to find out who Herbert John > GOODMAN's parent were. All I have so far is his marriage entry (see below) > and although it says he was born in Benalla I've been unable to find same. > > Digger - Pioneer Index. Victoria 1836-1888 > > Surname: GOODMAN > Given Names: Herbert John > Event: M > Spouse Surname/Father: MCMILLAN > Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Anna Gillespie > Age: > Sex: M > Birth Place: BENALLA > Death Place: > Year: 1881 > Reg Number: 4546 > > Any suggestions/help would be appreciated. > > Cheers > > Anne Hanson -- Colin Roe, Torrens ACT 2607 Australia

John, Thanks for the hint however with the Victorian Digger CDs that trick does not appear to work. Now what I find really interesting is that NSW BDMs would include deaths in South Africa because when I spoke to the Vic. Registry of BDMs this morning I was told that because the person (in this case Herbert John Goodman) did not die in Victoria then the death would not be registered in Victoria. Apparently the Vic. Registry of BDMs are working on a War Dead Project which will include the deaths of all Victorians who died in any conflict but I think the release date of this project is some time away. Cheers Anne Hanson -----Original Message----- From: Shirley & John Smith [mailto:s641025@hunterlink.net.au] Sent: Friday, 23 June 2006 1:59 PM To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [AUS-MIL] A good question Hello Anne and Anthony "A death on service overseas would not appear on the civil registry" On the NSW Federation Index CD If you open the go to search page Then to "Place of Registration" hit enter Then when the F4 screen comes up just type SOUTH AFRICA (in caps) Hit enter then F6 you get 250 entries of entries of Killed in War 1901 to 1904 Hope this helps someone and maybe a comment from Anthony if he could find out why they are in a civil registry They appear to have some in running rego numbers and others random Regards John Shirley & John Smith Maitland Area Lower Hunter Valley NSW Australia -----Original Message----- From: Anne Hanson [mailto:ahanson8@bigpond.com] Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 1:06 PM To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [AUS-MIL] A good question Anthony, Thank you. Anne Hanson -----Original Message----- From: Anthony Staunton [mailto:anthony.staunton@pcug.org.au] Sent: Thursday, 22 June 2006 10:40 PM To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [AUS-MIL] A good question Anne A death on service overseas would not appear on the civil registry. There are a number of references at http://www.pcug.org.au/~croe/ozb/ See http://www.pcug.org.au/~croe/ozb/oz_boer_more.cgi?record=7122 Anthony Staunton -----Original Message----- From: Anne Hanson [mailto:ahanson8@bigpond.com] Sent: Thursday, 22 June 2006 5:54 PM To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-MIL] A silly question perhaps Good Evening All, In Mansfield, Victoria there is a Boer War Memorial which has the following inscription: THIS OBELISK WAS ERECTED BY A FEW ADMIRERS TO THE MEMORY OF HERBERT JOHN GOODMAN SERGEANT VICTORIAN BUSHMEN CORPS, KILLED IN ACTION AT KOSTEO RIVER, SOUTH AFRICA 22ND JULY 1900 WHILST HONORABLY UPHOLDING THE PRESTIGE OF QUEEN AND EMPIRE. "NO SURRENDER". Based on the date of death above I searched the Victorian Digger Federation BDM index and was unable to find a death in the name of Herbert John GOODMAN. So now I'm wondering if an Australian citizen died overseas while on active service was there a death certificate issued for that person and if so, by whom? I am keen to know this as I am attempting to find out who Herbert John GOODMAN's parent were. All I have so far is his marriage entry (see below) and although it says he was born in Benalla I've been unable to find same. Digger - Pioneer Index. Victoria 1836-1888 Surname: GOODMAN Given Names: Herbert John Event: M Spouse Surname/Father: MCMILLAN Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Anna Gillespie Age: Sex: M Birth Place: BENALLA Death Place: Year: 1881 Reg Number: 4546 Any suggestions/help would be appreciated. Cheers Anne Hanson -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date: 20/06/2006 ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== Milton Ulladulla Boer War & WW1 http://www.shoalhaven.net.au/~cathyd/war/ ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== Milton Ulladulla Boer War & WW1 http://www.shoalhaven.net.au/~cathyd/war/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date: 20/06/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date: 20/06/2006 ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== AUS-MILITARY is set so that, by default, replies go to the list. Please check your replies before sending, to make sure that is what you know is happening. ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== Please support RootsWeb who make this list possible http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date: 20/06/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date: 20/06/2006

Hello Anne and Anthony "A death on service overseas would not appear on the civil registry" On the NSW Federation Index CD If you open the go to search page Then to "Place of Registration" hit enter Then when the F4 screen comes up just type SOUTH AFRICA (in caps) Hit enter then F6 you get 250 entries of entries of Killed in War 1901 to 1904 Hope this helps someone and maybe a comment from Anthony if he could find out why they are in a civil registry They appear to have some in running rego numbers and others random Regards John Shirley & John Smith Maitland Area Lower Hunter Valley NSW Australia -----Original Message----- From: Anne Hanson [mailto:ahanson8@bigpond.com] Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 1:06 PM To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [AUS-MIL] A good question Anthony, Thank you. Anne Hanson -----Original Message----- From: Anthony Staunton [mailto:anthony.staunton@pcug.org.au] Sent: Thursday, 22 June 2006 10:40 PM To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [AUS-MIL] A good question Anne A death on service overseas would not appear on the civil registry. There are a number of references at http://www.pcug.org.au/~croe/ozb/ See http://www.pcug.org.au/~croe/ozb/oz_boer_more.cgi?record=7122 Anthony Staunton -----Original Message----- From: Anne Hanson [mailto:ahanson8@bigpond.com] Sent: Thursday, 22 June 2006 5:54 PM To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-MIL] A silly question perhaps Good Evening All, In Mansfield, Victoria there is a Boer War Memorial which has the following inscription: THIS OBELISK WAS ERECTED BY A FEW ADMIRERS TO THE MEMORY OF HERBERT JOHN GOODMAN SERGEANT VICTORIAN BUSHMEN CORPS, KILLED IN ACTION AT KOSTEO RIVER, SOUTH AFRICA 22ND JULY 1900 WHILST HONORABLY UPHOLDING THE PRESTIGE OF QUEEN AND EMPIRE. "NO SURRENDER". Based on the date of death above I searched the Victorian Digger Federation BDM index and was unable to find a death in the name of Herbert John GOODMAN. So now I'm wondering if an Australian citizen died overseas while on active service was there a death certificate issued for that person and if so, by whom? I am keen to know this as I am attempting to find out who Herbert John GOODMAN's parent were. All I have so far is his marriage entry (see below) and although it says he was born in Benalla I've been unable to find same. Digger - Pioneer Index. Victoria 1836-1888 Surname: GOODMAN Given Names: Herbert John Event: M Spouse Surname/Father: MCMILLAN Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Anna Gillespie Age: Sex: M Birth Place: BENALLA Death Place: Year: 1881 Reg Number: 4546 Any suggestions/help would be appreciated. Cheers Anne Hanson -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date: 20/06/2006 ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== Milton Ulladulla Boer War & WW1 http://www.shoalhaven.net.au/~cathyd/war/ ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== Milton Ulladulla Boer War & WW1 http://www.shoalhaven.net.au/~cathyd/war/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date: 20/06/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date: 20/06/2006 ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== AUS-MILITARY is set so that, by default, replies go to the list. Please check your replies before sending, to make sure that is what you know is happening.

Anthony, Thank you. Anne Hanson -----Original Message----- From: Anthony Staunton [mailto:anthony.staunton@pcug.org.au] Sent: Thursday, 22 June 2006 10:40 PM To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [AUS-MIL] A good question Anne A death on service overseas would not appear on the civil registry. There are a number of references at http://www.pcug.org.au/~croe/ozb/ See http://www.pcug.org.au/~croe/ozb/oz_boer_more.cgi?record=7122 Anthony Staunton -----Original Message----- From: Anne Hanson [mailto:ahanson8@bigpond.com] Sent: Thursday, 22 June 2006 5:54 PM To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-MIL] A silly question perhaps Good Evening All, In Mansfield, Victoria there is a Boer War Memorial which has the following inscription: THIS OBELISK WAS ERECTED BY A FEW ADMIRERS TO THE MEMORY OF HERBERT JOHN GOODMAN SERGEANT VICTORIAN BUSHMEN CORPS, KILLED IN ACTION AT KOSTEO RIVER, SOUTH AFRICA 22ND JULY 1900 WHILST HONORABLY UPHOLDING THE PRESTIGE OF QUEEN AND EMPIRE. "NO SURRENDER". Based on the date of death above I searched the Victorian Digger Federation BDM index and was unable to find a death in the name of Herbert John GOODMAN. So now I'm wondering if an Australian citizen died overseas while on active service was there a death certificate issued for that person and if so, by whom? I am keen to know this as I am attempting to find out who Herbert John GOODMAN's parent were. All I have so far is his marriage entry (see below) and although it says he was born in Benalla I've been unable to find same. Digger - Pioneer Index. Victoria 1836-1888 Surname: GOODMAN Given Names: Herbert John Event: M Spouse Surname/Father: MCMILLAN Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Anna Gillespie Age: Sex: M Birth Place: BENALLA Death Place: Year: 1881 Reg Number: 4546 Any suggestions/help would be appreciated. Cheers Anne Hanson -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date: 20/06/2006 ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== Milton Ulladulla Boer War & WW1 http://www.shoalhaven.net.au/~cathyd/war/ ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== Milton Ulladulla Boer War & WW1 http://www.shoalhaven.net.au/~cathyd/war/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date: 20/06/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date: 20/06/2006

John, Thank you very much for the info below. It confirmed what I suspected. Cheers Anne H. -----Original Message----- From: John Wilson [mailto:hugo@actrix.gen.nz] Sent: Thursday, 22 June 2006 9:10 PM To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-MIL] Boer War deaths .... A silly question perhaps Hi Anne: The Boer War deaths were recorded in a special (military) section of the English Death Registers. But the info is minimal, when & where died plus surname and initials, rank and usually Regimental number. One I got for a member of Brabant's Horse did not even have the Regimental number, though the Regiment was given in the heading: Registration of Births, Deaths and Marriages (Special Provisions) Act 1957 Casualty List of the Natal & South African Field Forces 1899-1902 Brabant's Horse, 1st Regiment Trooper FOX, J Killed Vaalkop 23 Aug 1900 (-- in Remarks) So you will not get anything about age, parents or when/where born! See the English GRO (General Registry Office) Overseas or "ancillary" death registration microfiche Indexes ONS No. F533-F539 (copy in National Library, Wellington) called: "Natal and South African Field Force Deaths 1899-1902 (Regular and Irregular Forces)". The fiches of deaths includes Local & Colonial forces, and has one New Zealand 7th Contingent member, L. A. Ditely, who was seriously injured but survived at Langverwacht (Bothasberg) on 24.2.1902 when de Wet's Commando broke through the cordon. But it misses about 9 of the 185 New Zealand Contingent deaths in South Africa (the remaining 47 of the c232 NZ Contingent deaths were at sea or in NZ). Yours, John Wilson > > In Mansfield, Victoria there is a Boer War Memorial which has the following > inscription: > > THIS OBELISK > WAS ERECTED BY A FEW ADMIRERS > TO THE MEMORY OF > HERBERT JOHN GOODMAN > SERGEANT VICTORIAN BUSHMEN > CORPS, KILLED IN ACTION AT KOSTEO > RIVER, SOUTH AFRICA 22ND JULY 1900 > WHILST HONORABLY UPHOLDING THE > PRESTIGE OF QUEEN AND EMPIRE. > "NO SURRENDER". > > Based on the date of death above I searched the Victorian Digger Federation > BDM index and was unable to find a death in the name of Herbert John > GOODMAN. So now I'm wondering if an Australian citizen died overseas while > on active service was there a death certificate issued for that person and > if so, by whom? > > I am keen to know this as I am attempting to find out who Herbert John > GOODMAN's parent were. All I have so far is his marriage entry (see below) > and although it says he was born in Benalla I've been unable to find same. > > Digger - Pioneer Index. Victoria 1836-1888 > > Surname: GOODMAN > Given Names: Herbert John > Event: M > Spouse Surname/Father: MCMILLAN > Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Anna Gillespie > Age: > Sex: M > Birth Place: BENALLA > Death Place: > Year: 1881 > Reg Number: 4546 > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== The Military Historical Society of Australia http://www.mhsa.org.au/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date: 20/06/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date: 20/06/2006

George, Thank you very much indeed. Now this is just me being curious but can you tell me where the information below came from - I did at one stage end up on a Boer War site but had no idea of what I was doing. I was about to presume that because his n.o.k. was listed as being in California that perhaps Herbert and the brother were Americans but perhaps I shouldn't. Also I was surprised that his wife, Anna Gillespie McMillan was not listed as his next of kin. Cheers Anne Hanson -----Original Message----- From: George Ward [mailto:wardfam@alphalink.com.au] Sent: Friday, 23 June 2006 7:09 AM To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [AUS-MIL] Herbert Goodman Good morning Anne, His details on the roll state, No 395 Herbert John Goodman born 13th August 1861, married with one child, occupation Drover, care of the Mansfield Post Office,N.O.K. Brother C.H.Goodman,Ball's Ferry Chasty County California. Church of England, 5ft 11.25 inches, 37 inch chest. He is buried at Rustenburg. Regards George Ward -----Original Message----- From: Anne Hanson [mailto:ahanson8@bigpond.com] Sent: Thursday, 22 June 2006 5:54 PM To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-MIL] A silly question perhaps Good Evening All, In Mansfield, Victoria there is a Boer War Memorial which has the following inscription: THIS OBELISK WAS ERECTED BY A FEW ADMIRERS TO THE MEMORY OF HERBERT JOHN GOODMAN SERGEANT VICTORIAN BUSHMEN CORPS, KILLED IN ACTION AT KOSTEO RIVER, SOUTH AFRICA 22ND JULY 1900 WHILST HONORABLY UPHOLDING THE PRESTIGE OF QUEEN AND EMPIRE. "NO SURRENDER". Based on the date of death above I searched the Victorian Digger Federation BDM index and was unable to find a death in the name of Herbert John GOODMAN. So now I'm wondering if an Australian citizen died overseas while on active service was there a death certificate issued for that person and if so, by whom? I am keen to know this as I am attempting to find out who Herbert John GOODMAN's parent were. All I have so far is his marriage entry (see below) and although it says he was born in Benalla I've been unable to find same. Digger - Pioneer Index. Victoria 1836-1888 Surname: GOODMAN Given Names: Herbert John Event: M Spouse Surname/Father: MCMILLAN Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Anna Gillespie Age: Sex: M Birth Place: BENALLA Death Place: Year: 1881 Reg Number: 4546 Any suggestions/help would be appreciated. Cheers Anne Hanson -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date: 20/06/2006 ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== Milton Ulladulla Boer War & WW1 http://www.shoalhaven.net.au/~cathyd/war/ ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== Please support RootsWeb who make this list possible http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date: 20/06/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date: 20/06/2006

Good morning Anne, His details on the roll state, No 395 Herbert John Goodman born 13th August 1861, married with one child, occupation Drover, care of the Mansfield Post Office,N.O.K. Brother C.H.Goodman,Ball's Ferry Chasty County California. Church of England, 5ft 11.25 inches, 37 inch chest. He is buried at Rustenburg. Regards George Ward -----Original Message----- From: Anne Hanson [mailto:ahanson8@bigpond.com] Sent: Thursday, 22 June 2006 5:54 PM To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-MIL] A silly question perhaps Good Evening All, In Mansfield, Victoria there is a Boer War Memorial which has the following inscription: THIS OBELISK WAS ERECTED BY A FEW ADMIRERS TO THE MEMORY OF HERBERT JOHN GOODMAN SERGEANT VICTORIAN BUSHMEN CORPS, KILLED IN ACTION AT KOSTEO RIVER, SOUTH AFRICA 22ND JULY 1900 WHILST HONORABLY UPHOLDING THE PRESTIGE OF QUEEN AND EMPIRE. "NO SURRENDER". Based on the date of death above I searched the Victorian Digger Federation BDM index and was unable to find a death in the name of Herbert John GOODMAN. So now I'm wondering if an Australian citizen died overseas while on active service was there a death certificate issued for that person and if so, by whom? I am keen to know this as I am attempting to find out who Herbert John GOODMAN's parent were. All I have so far is his marriage entry (see below) and although it says he was born in Benalla I've been unable to find same. Digger - Pioneer Index. Victoria 1836-1888 Surname: GOODMAN Given Names: Herbert John Event: M Spouse Surname/Father: MCMILLAN Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Anna Gillespie Age: Sex: M Birth Place: BENALLA Death Place: Year: 1881 Reg Number: 4546 Any suggestions/help would be appreciated. Cheers Anne Hanson -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date: 20/06/2006 ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== Milton Ulladulla Boer War & WW1 http://www.shoalhaven.net.au/~cathyd/war/

Hi Anne: The Boer War deaths were recorded in a special (military) section of the English Death Registers. But the info is minimal, when & where died plus surname and initials, rank and usually Regimental number. One I got for a member of Brabant's Horse did not even have the Regimental number, though the Regiment was given in the heading: Registration of Births, Deaths and Marriages (Special Provisions) Act 1957 Casualty List of the Natal & South African Field Forces 1899-1902 Brabant's Horse, 1st Regiment Trooper FOX, J Killed Vaalkop 23 Aug 1900 (-- in Remarks) So you will not get anything about age, parents or when/where born! See the English GRO (General Registry Office) Overseas or "ancillary" death registration microfiche Indexes ONS No. F533-F539 (copy in National Library, Wellington) called: "Natal and South African Field Force Deaths 1899-1902 (Regular and Irregular Forces)". The fiches of deaths includes Local & Colonial forces, and has one New Zealand 7th Contingent member, L. A. Ditely, who was seriously injured but survived at Langverwacht (Bothasberg) on 24.2.1902 when de Wet's Commando broke through the cordon. But it misses about 9 of the 185 New Zealand Contingent deaths in South Africa (the remaining 47 of the c232 NZ Contingent deaths were at sea or in NZ). Yours, John Wilson > > In Mansfield, Victoria there is a Boer War Memorial which has the following > inscription: > > THIS OBELISK > WAS ERECTED BY A FEW ADMIRERS > TO THE MEMORY OF > HERBERT JOHN GOODMAN > SERGEANT VICTORIAN BUSHMEN > CORPS, KILLED IN ACTION AT KOSTEO > RIVER, SOUTH AFRICA 22ND JULY 1900 > WHILST HONORABLY UPHOLDING THE > PRESTIGE OF QUEEN AND EMPIRE. > "NO SURRENDER". > > Based on the date of death above I searched the Victorian Digger Federation > BDM index and was unable to find a death in the name of Herbert John > GOODMAN. So now I'm wondering if an Australian citizen died overseas while > on active service was there a death certificate issued for that person and > if so, by whom? > > I am keen to know this as I am attempting to find out who Herbert John > GOODMAN's parent were. All I have so far is his marriage entry (see below) > and although it says he was born in Benalla I've been unable to find same. > > Digger - Pioneer Index. Victoria 1836-1888 > > Surname: GOODMAN > Given Names: Herbert John > Event: M > Spouse Surname/Father: MCMILLAN > Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Anna Gillespie > Age: > Sex: M > Birth Place: BENALLA > Death Place: > Year: 1881 > Reg Number: 4546 >

Anne A death on service overseas would not appear on the civil registry. There are a number of references at http://www.pcug.org.au/~croe/ozb/ See http://www.pcug.org.au/~croe/ozb/oz_boer_more.cgi?record=7122 Anthony Staunton -----Original Message----- From: Anne Hanson [mailto:ahanson8@bigpond.com] Sent: Thursday, 22 June 2006 5:54 PM To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [AUS-MIL] A silly question perhaps Good Evening All, In Mansfield, Victoria there is a Boer War Memorial which has the following inscription: THIS OBELISK WAS ERECTED BY A FEW ADMIRERS TO THE MEMORY OF HERBERT JOHN GOODMAN SERGEANT VICTORIAN BUSHMEN CORPS, KILLED IN ACTION AT KOSTEO RIVER, SOUTH AFRICA 22ND JULY 1900 WHILST HONORABLY UPHOLDING THE PRESTIGE OF QUEEN AND EMPIRE. "NO SURRENDER". Based on the date of death above I searched the Victorian Digger Federation BDM index and was unable to find a death in the name of Herbert John GOODMAN. So now I'm wondering if an Australian citizen died overseas while on active service was there a death certificate issued for that person and if so, by whom? I am keen to know this as I am attempting to find out who Herbert John GOODMAN's parent were. All I have so far is his marriage entry (see below) and although it says he was born in Benalla I've been unable to find same. Digger - Pioneer Index. Victoria 1836-1888 Surname: GOODMAN Given Names: Herbert John Event: M Spouse Surname/Father: MCMILLAN Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Anna Gillespie Age: Sex: M Birth Place: BENALLA Death Place: Year: 1881 Reg Number: 4546 Any suggestions/help would be appreciated. Cheers Anne Hanson -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date: 20/06/2006 ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== Milton Ulladulla Boer War & WW1 http://www.shoalhaven.net.au/~cathyd/war/

Good Evening All, In Mansfield, Victoria there is a Boer War Memorial which has the following inscription: THIS OBELISK WAS ERECTED BY A FEW ADMIRERS TO THE MEMORY OF HERBERT JOHN GOODMAN SERGEANT VICTORIAN BUSHMEN CORPS, KILLED IN ACTION AT KOSTEO RIVER, SOUTH AFRICA 22ND JULY 1900 WHILST HONORABLY UPHOLDING THE PRESTIGE OF QUEEN AND EMPIRE. "NO SURRENDER". Based on the date of death above I searched the Victorian Digger Federation BDM index and was unable to find a death in the name of Herbert John GOODMAN. So now I'm wondering if an Australian citizen died overseas while on active service was there a death certificate issued for that person and if so, by whom? I am keen to know this as I am attempting to find out who Herbert John GOODMAN's parent were. All I have so far is his marriage entry (see below) and although it says he was born in Benalla I've been unable to find same. Digger - Pioneer Index. Victoria 1836-1888 Surname: GOODMAN Given Names: Herbert John Event: M Spouse Surname/Father: MCMILLAN Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Anna Gillespie Age: Sex: M Birth Place: BENALLA Death Place: Year: 1881 Reg Number: 4546 Any suggestions/help would be appreciated. Cheers Anne Hanson -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date: 20/06/2006

Ask Allen Callaghan allgwen@powerup.com.au Cheers, Ted Harris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Brett" <jbr34518@bigpond.net.au> To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 5:20 PM Subject: Re: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V06 #80 > Could someone please help me with following info: > > the number and date of the last nasho intake in 1972 > > and where I can get a list of the victorian personal on it. > > Thank you > > Judy >

Could someone please help me with following info: the number and date of the last nasho intake in 1972 and where I can get a list of the victorian personal on it. Thank you Judy

Following on (again) from my letter to the current Minister responsible for the desecration of our soldiers graves at Karrakatta Cemetery I have posted some photo's on another site which you might like to take a look at. These photos are part of the desecration of an official war grave which is under the auspices of the CWGC and tended by the OAWG. http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=54220 Bright Blessings, Sandra. Sandra's Family History - http://tinyurl.com/o3mad MSN Messenger - fedelmar@hotmail.com My MSN Spaces - http://spaces.msn.com/fedelmar/ ~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~* Knowledge speaks and wisdom listens. ~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~* -- _______________________________________________ Search for businesses by name, location, or phone number. -Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10

Thanks Boyd, I stand corrected - my email made no sense, I should have said that the 1st & 2nd Division were split up as you rightly said. It was the fact that one of my relatives was in the 3rd Bn but was returned to the 54th after recovering from wounds that made me look for a reason in the first place, hence Bean. Regards, Dave Mike Boyd wrote: > David > You have made a misrepresentation of what Bean says on page 42 of > Volume III. > > The reorganisation of Feb 1916, was that the 1st and 2nd Divisions > were split in half. The first half remaining as the initial Division > and the second half becoming the 4th and 5th Divisions. > > So in the Case of the 1st Bn the second half became the 53 Bn. Then > each unit was made up to strength with new recruites then being > trained in Egypt. > > Certainly the First Bn did not disappear to be come the 53rd Bn. and > so on. > > Mike Boyd > Brisbane >

Eric Well done for confirming it was the 46th. However on 2 June, I did suggest it was probably the 46th Foot. I would immediately check the AJCP which most likely has the name of the detachment commander. It that fails there are other options which I listed in my reply on 2 June. Anthony -----Original Message----- From: Eric Young [mailto:youngeric@bigpond.com] Sent: Saturday, 17 June 2006 12:58 PM To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-MIL] Regiment aboard ship Surrey Arrived Dec 1816 Jen, I seem to have missed your original posting - I have the book referred to by Mike Boyd; it is J.S. Cumpston, 'Shipping Arrivals & Departures, Sydney, 1788-1825', Roebuck Book (2nd ed.), and it lists the arrival of the Surry on 20/21 Dec 1816 at p. 105. It shows the vessel's 'cargo' as 150 male prisoners and a detachment of the 46th Regiment. No names are mentioned. If nobody else has already done so, I suggest that you look up the volumes covering that year of the 'Historical Records of Australia' & 'Historical Records of NSW' - there is every chance that a Governor's Despatch mentioned the arrival of the vessel and the soldiers thereon. The indexes are good, but not perfect, so look under all possibilities. Frequently the index will have under the entry for the ship - 'Military per', but not always. If the person in charge was a commissioned officer he may be named, but if only a sergeant and lower ranks came out, they may only be referred to by their number, e,g, 1 sergeant, 1 drummer and 10 privates. Good luck Eric P.S. Always a good idea to mention in your postings where you obtained the information that you already had. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jennifer Lambert Tracey" <jtracey@heritagearchaeology.com.au> To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 11:28 AM Subject: RE: [AUS-MIL] Regiment aboard ship Surrey Arrived Dec 1816 > Many thanks Mike. I will see what the NLA can come up with. > > Cheers, > Jen > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Boyd [mailto:mikejboyd@bigpond.com] > Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 10:38 AM > To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [AUS-MIL] Regiment aboard ship Surrey Arrived Dec 1816 > > Jen > You will need to look a the book before this one > Shipping Arrivals and Departures Sydney, 1826-1840, by I.H. Nicholson > > It may cover the period 1788 to 1825. > > When I was looking at the arivial of the John Barry in 1826, it listed the > Officers and if your bloke was in charge he should be listed. Although > you > may need to go the Sydney Paper of the time. > > Mike Boyd, Brisbane > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jennifer Lambert Tracey" <jtracey@heritagearchaeology.com.au> > To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 9:33 AM > Subject: [AUS-MIL] Regiment aboard ship Surrey Arrived Dec 1816 > > >> Would anyone be able to tell me which Regiment /part thereof arrived in >> NSW >> on board the second voyage of the Surrey [Surry] in December 1816. >> >> Most importantly... who was the commanding officer of the Regiment on >> that >> voyage. >> >> Many thanks, >> Jen >> >> >> ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== >> Milton Ulladulla Boer War & WW1 >> http://www.shoalhaven.net.au/~cathyd/war/ >> > > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== > RAAF Museum > http://www.raafmuseum.com.au/ > > > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== > AUS-MILITARY is set so that, by default, replies go to the list. Please > check your replies before sending, to make sure that is what you know is > happening. > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== First AIF Order of Battle 1914-1918 http://www.adfa.edu.au/~rmallett/index.html

Viv Martin's "The Way We Were, The Way We Are" presentation recently referred to on this list reminded me of something I wrote for another arena recently. I quote it here.... I am not smart. I am not technologically savvy. I am just a burnt out old fart. I cannot write 1 line of computer code. I sit here in my garage and run a web site group that attracts about 12 million page visitors a year from 131 countries. No big deal, right? Right. I look back to my first Ekka (State Fair or State Show for some readers). It was 50 years ago. Well before computers, mobile phones or whatever. TV did not exist. No CDs, no video, no Ipods. I well remember that the big technological advance of that year was the plastic self adjusting potato peeler. The company selling them had 6 or 8 people demonstrating how easy it was to peel a potato this "new fangled" way. People were amazed. The peelers sold like hot cakes. I forget the price but they were not cheap. Now you cannot buy a potato peeler. My wife tried the other day. She had to buy a pack of 4 and the pack cost $1.50. What has this got to do with military history? you ask. My point is that the young people of today must have huge difficulty in understanding the world of 65 years ago (WW2) or 91 years ago (WW1). Cheers, Ted Harris

Jen, I seem to have missed your original posting - I have the book referred to by Mike Boyd; it is J.S. Cumpston, 'Shipping Arrivals & Departures, Sydney, 1788-1825', Roebuck Book (2nd ed.), and it lists the arrival of the Surry on 20/21 Dec 1816 at p. 105. It shows the vessel's 'cargo' as 150 male prisoners and a detachment of the 46th Regiment. No names are mentioned. If nobody else has already done so, I suggest that you look up the volumes covering that year of the 'Historical Records of Australia' & 'Historical Records of NSW' - there is every chance that a Governor's Despatch mentioned the arrival of the vessel and the soldiers thereon. The indexes are good, but not perfect, so look under all possibilities. Frequently the index will have under the entry for the ship - 'Military per', but not always. If the person in charge was a commissioned officer he may be named, but if only a sergeant and lower ranks came out, they may only be referred to by their number, e,g, 1 sergeant, 1 drummer and 10 privates. Good luck Eric P.S. Always a good idea to mention in your postings where you obtained the information that you already had. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jennifer Lambert Tracey" <jtracey@heritagearchaeology.com.au> To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 11:28 AM Subject: RE: [AUS-MIL] Regiment aboard ship Surrey Arrived Dec 1816 > Many thanks Mike. I will see what the NLA can come up with. > > Cheers, > Jen > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Boyd [mailto:mikejboyd@bigpond.com] > Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 10:38 AM > To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [AUS-MIL] Regiment aboard ship Surrey Arrived Dec 1816 > > Jen > You will need to look a the book before this one > Shipping Arrivals and Departures Sydney, 1826-1840, by I.H. Nicholson > > It may cover the period 1788 to 1825. > > When I was looking at the arivial of the John Barry in 1826, it listed the > Officers and if your bloke was in charge he should be listed. Although > you > may need to go the Sydney Paper of the time. > > Mike Boyd, Brisbane > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jennifer Lambert Tracey" <jtracey@heritagearchaeology.com.au> > To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 9:33 AM > Subject: [AUS-MIL] Regiment aboard ship Surrey Arrived Dec 1816 > > >> Would anyone be able to tell me which Regiment /part thereof arrived in >> NSW >> on board the second voyage of the Surrey [Surry] in December 1816. >> >> Most importantly... who was the commanding officer of the Regiment on >> that >> voyage. >> >> Many thanks, >> Jen >> >> >> ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== >> Milton Ulladulla Boer War & WW1 >> http://www.shoalhaven.net.au/~cathyd/war/ >> > > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== > RAAF Museum > http://www.raafmuseum.com.au/ > > > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== > AUS-MILITARY is set so that, by default, replies go to the list. Please > check your replies before sending, to make sure that is what you know is > happening. > >

Hi Roger > From: > "Marine" <rm16460@btinternet.com> > Date: > To: > AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com > A recent visit to Perth and Kings Park revealed a beautiful memorial to the men of Western Australia who died in Sandakan. > I know my cousin is mentioned in Lynette Silvers excellent book "A Conspiracy of Silence" and I know his name is at Labuan, but is there any memorial in Queensland dedicated to the men of that state, if there is I would appreciate a JPG Scan of the memorial especially if it shows Gunner Harold Victor COPELIN 2/10 RAA > Thank You > Roger > Royal Marines > Member RMHS > Researching Copelin, Attrell, Reeves, Deacon & Pont Thanks for the kind words about our memorial at Kings Park which was constructed and dedicated last year with funds from the DVA, Lottery West and with donations from our members and the public. The plaque wording describes that the memorial is for ALL the Australian and British POWs who died in Borneo. In addition there is a nominal roll listing those West Australians who died here. Regards Allan Cresswell President Borneo POW Relatives Association of WA Inc

Many thanks Mike. I will see what the NLA can come up with. Cheers, Jen -----Original Message----- From: Mike Boyd [mailto:mikejboyd@bigpond.com] Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 10:38 AM To: AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AUS-MIL] Regiment aboard ship Surrey Arrived Dec 1816 Jen You will need to look a the book before this one Shipping Arrivals and Departures Sydney, 1826-1840, by I.H. Nicholson It may cover the period 1788 to 1825. When I was looking at the arivial of the John Barry in 1826, it listed the Officers and if your bloke was in charge he should be listed. Although you may need to go the Sydney Paper of the time. Mike Boyd, Brisbane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jennifer Lambert Tracey" <jtracey@heritagearchaeology.com.au> To: <AUS-MILITARY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 9:33 AM Subject: [AUS-MIL] Regiment aboard ship Surrey Arrived Dec 1816 > Would anyone be able to tell me which Regiment /part thereof arrived in > NSW > on board the second voyage of the Surrey [Surry] in December 1816. > > Most importantly... who was the commanding officer of the Regiment on that > voyage. > > Many thanks, > Jen > > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== > Milton Ulladulla Boer War & WW1 > http://www.shoalhaven.net.au/~cathyd/war/ > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== RAAF Museum http://www.raafmuseum.com.au/