Kate, Don, I've signed this petition as it seems obvious that you need support from all quarters. However, I'm very surprised that the council could behave like this and not explain its reasoning. Have you ever been told why they think that a proposed memorial at some future date, and some distance removed from the trees, would substitute for your little plaque at a more logical place? And is there a big cost involved? Surely they must have better reasons to justify their stance? And have you tried to give them a chance to put their side so you can publish it as well? Best of luck, Stuart -----Original Message----- From: Kate Blake [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, 6 January 2003 9:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Fw: from an Aussie Vietnam War veteran VETERANS PETITION I am an Australian Vietnam War veteran bringing a matter into the public arena. Certain individual veterans have attempted to discredit the matter, so I have placed all the material on the web in an endeavour to gather the support of the veteran movement. Simply, seven disabled Australian Vietnam veterans are locked into battle again- but this time the enemy isn't a black-clad army, but a mean-spirited, spiteful local government bureaucracy. As part of a community project to build a "commemorative walk" around a local sporting field on behalf of all Vietnam veterans, the veterans and their wives planted over 200 trees with a $2000 Dept. Veterans Affairs grant. At the conclusion of the project, the local Council (Shellharbour City Council, on the south coast of NSW) refused to allow the veterans to leave a plaque on a rock acknowledging who had planted the trees, and why. >From any viewpoint, (and veterans from around the world agree) this is sheer bastardry, especially when the Chilean Association has a plaque on a rock just 300 metres away, and they only planted two trees! Full details of the matter are attached. If opening an attachment worries you, more information can be found at my web site "One Man's War" at members.tripod.com/warvet_69, and there is an on-line petition at http://www.PetitionOnline.com/vvlm230/petition.html I hope you might sign. Any other assistance you might be able to give us in this matter (passing it on to mates, or other organizations, or any other way at all) it would be greatly appreciated. The matter is currently being addressed by the VVAA National Council. Yours Sincerely Don Tate, ex-4RAR; 9RAR PS I was wounded in action on 19th July, 1969, and hospitalized for over two years. You might find my articles under "Writings" at my web site of some interest. Many veterans and members of the public from around the world have found them to be significant reading. Might I particularly recommend "A Question of Faith"; "Bitter Man"; and "Coming the Full Circle". PS Brig. Stretton, and Brig. Davis have signed the petition, and Gen Alby Morrison (ex-co of the 9th Battalion has made personal approaches to the Council. Photos of the parts of the project are now on line at the "Commemmorative Walk" section at my site. Should you require more information, I can send you an attachment. Email me at [email protected] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== Milton Ulladulla Boer War & WW1 http://www.shoalhaven.net.au/~cathyd/war/

A reply received to a previous post. Dear Mr Harris, I came across your great www.diggerhistory.info site yesterday after following the link from your reply to Mrs Henderson's post on 'AUS-MILITARY'. I have a general interest in late nineteenth century commonwealth uniforms, and think that the photographs from Mrs Henderson are particularly fascinating. I thought I could add a couple of points to the notes you made. It's worth pointing out that the National Guard was a NSW unit. Rick Grebert's Military Badges of the Australian Colonies says it was raised on 27 August 1896 and was made up of veterans of the British or colonial forces. The uniforms in the second picture are very similar to NSW infantry (especially the white gorget patches), and not so much so to the Victorian forces. I don't think it's possible to identify the unit of James Henderson from the photo, since his badge seems to be a generic Victorian Forces one, but I agree it's probably infantry, and definitely not artillery (the picture of Sgt Major Jones! , 4th Bn. also seems to be the same). It must be after 1880, because officers' 'pips' were worn on the collar until then in the British Army, and maybe later in some colonial forces. Thanks for your time. Hope I'm not sticking my nose in. Tim Lovering Stirlingshire, Scotland

VETERANS PETITION I am an Australian Vietnam War veteran bringing a matter into the public arena. Certain individual veterans have attempted to discredit the matter, so I have placed all the material on the web in an endeavour to gather the support of the veteran movement. Simply, seven disabled Australian Vietnam veterans are locked into battle again- but this time the enemy isn't a black-clad army, but a mean-spirited, spiteful local government bureaucracy. As part of a community project to build a "commemorative walk" around a local sporting field on behalf of all Vietnam veterans, the veterans and their wives planted over 200 trees with a $2000 Dept. Veterans Affairs grant. At the conclusion of the project, the local Council (Shellharbour City Council, on the south coast of NSW) refused to allow the veterans to leave a plaque on a rock acknowledging who had planted the trees, and why. From any viewpoint, (and veterans from around the world agree) this is sheer bastardry, especially when the Chilean Association has a plaque on a rock just 300 metres away, and they only planted two trees! Full details of the matter are attached. If opening an attachment worries you, more information can be found at my web site "One Man's War" at members.tripod.com/warvet_69, and there is an on-line petition at http://www.PetitionOnline.com/vvlm230/petition.html I hope you might sign. Any other assistance you might be able to give us in this matter (passing it on to mates, or other organizations, or any other way at all) it would be greatly appreciated. The matter is currently being addressed by the VVAA National Council. Yours Sincerely Don Tate, ex-4RAR; 9RAR PS I was wounded in action on 19th July, 1969, and hospitalized for over two years. You might find my articles under "Writings" at my web site of some interest. Many veterans and members of the public from around the world have found them to be significant reading. Might I particularly recommend "A Question of Faith"; "Bitter Man"; and "Coming the Full Circle". PS Brig. Stretton, and Brig. Davis have signed the petition, and Gen Alby Morrison (ex-co of the 9th Battalion has made personal approaches to the Council. Photos of the parts of the project are now on line at the "Commemmorative Walk" section at my site. Should you require more information, I can send you an attachment. Email me at [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now

I am hoping someone can help me track down a copy of "The Gap is Bridged-Part 2" by L.J. Robertson along with A.E Field. It was printed in Sydney in 1982, the copyright held by the 7th Division Engineers Association. Any info on where to contact this association would be appreciated. Regards Julie

Hi Bernie The uniform looks like the Victorian Mounted Rifles, If you know where he was living at the time it was taken it would help in identifying as the uniform is from the period 1890 to about 1905. Have you checked the nominal roll of Australians who served in the Anglo-Boer war at the Australian War memorial site? I checked our index and he was not listed as a Officer in the VMR. Cheers Tom Corfmat Secretary Victorian Colonial Infantry Association Inc. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Klein" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 11:46 PM Subject: Unknown uniform > I have been trying to identify a uniform of my Great Great Great Uncle, Alfred Klein who was born 1877. I have posted a photograph on my site: http://www.cnl.com.au/users/cline/alf.htm > He seems to be wearing a uniform relating to a horse brigade, but I am unable to identify which war if any he fought (his name does not appear on any nominal roll for the period). Is anyone able to assist my research? I was also trying to find what rank he may have held. > > Bernie Cline > Email: [email protected] > > The KLEIN Family Centre The TYNDALL Family Centre > http://go.to/klein http://all.at/tyndall > > ______________________________

Hi folks, If there are any button experts out there, can anyone suggest where this one was from? Around the rim of the button it says "G.M.R. Victoria". In the centre of the button is a spoked wheel, with a wing radiating out from the hub of the wheel. The wheel is sitting on a piece of cord, or rope. The button was manufactured in London in The Strand - I think it is Firmin, but some parts of the back are obscured. I've looked in the Cossum Book on Military Buttons of the Australian military forces, (published in 1988) but it doesn't appear. The button has the appearance of a 19th century button. Any ideas? Lenore Frost Essendon, Vic http://www.members.optushome.com.au/lenorefrost/ See details of my new book: "Essendon and the Boer War, with letters from the veldt, 1899-1902" http://www.members.optushome.com.au/lenorefrost/bookshop.html _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

I have been trying to identify a uniform of my Great Great Great Uncle, Alfred Klein who was born 1877. I have posted a photograph on my site: http://www.cnl.com.au/users/cline/alf.htm He seems to be wearing a uniform relating to a horse brigade, but I am unable to identify which war if any he fought (his name does not appear on any nominal roll for the period). Is anyone able to assist my research? I was also trying to find what rank he may have held. Bernie Cline Email: [email protected] The KLEIN Family Centre The TYNDALL Family Centre http://go.to/klein http://all.at/tyndall

Just having a clean up and thought someone may be interested in these sources available through the Public Library System and Battye Library WA. This all the information that I have regarding these sources and am unable to assist any further. The Western Mail: 1914-1919 Photographical Index to Western Australia's in the Armed Forces. Compiled by Marcia Watson. Published by Marcia Watson, Carine., WA (1996) 3rd Floor Battye Shelves. Q 940.39 WAT Australian Roll of Honour National Honours and Awards by Alistair Taylor (1997) Mentioned in Dispatches: Australians World War 1 . By G. A. Newbury (1988) (BRN 559 414) (Q355.1342 * NEW BAT PLS SOC) Returned Sailors & Soldiers Imperial League of Australia: Western Australian Branch of WA Digger Book. Perth Imperial Printing Co for Press Sub Branch of RSL (1929) (BRN 323 093 0940-412) (Ref. Q 940-412* RET BAT) The All Australian Memorial: A Historical Record of National Effort During the Great War: Australian Roll of Honour, history, heroes and helpers, Melb. British Publishing Service. (1917) IV (Various Pages) (BRN 62 1012 ) (Q 940.409 * ALL SOC) Carry On: The Traditions of the AIF. Perth WA (1940) (BRN 347791) (Q940 41 * CAR LAT) (REF) Recipients of the DCM 1914 - 1920 by RW Walker, (BRN 790 708) (332 * STA RAT) Light Railway of the First World War: A history of tactical rail communications of the British fronts 1914 - 1918. By WJK Davies. (385 5 PLS BRN 416 714) Anzac Memories. (940 412 THO) Tales of Old Soldiers (940 491) The Old 16th: Being a record of the 16th Battalion AIF during the Great War 1914 - 1918. By Cyril Longmore. (BRN 25773) (I know there are photo's of soldiers of the 16th at Battye Library as I have seen them) Sunday Times 1915: Photographic Index to West Australians in the Armed Forces. By Marcia Watson. Bright Blessings Sandie Fremantle Western Australia _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

Would this combination have been due to some games or a training exercise? Is it possible to identify the Barracks? Mike Boyd Brisbane ----- Original Message ----- From: Val Harris <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 9:01 AM Subject: Re: Photo Provost Coys > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "robyne kirsch" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 12:57 PM > Subject: Photo Provost Coys > > > > I have a photo of a group of men in different > > uniforms, outside a barracks, taken during WW2. They > > are from various > > Provost companies, which I think is military police. > > Some of the companies named on the back of the photo > > are: > > 1 Aust L of C Prov Coy, 7 Aust Div. Prov Coy, 2 Div. > > Prov Coy, 5 Aust Corps Provost Coy No 1 Dog Act, 19 > > Aust Independent Provost Platoon, New Guinea force > > Provost Coy, 1 AA Provost Coy. There are some > > Americans in the photo as well, which I think came > > from 800 MP Bn. I am trying to find out why these > > men from different coys, states and countries, are all > > grouped together, and where the photo was taken, and > > if any of my relatives are in it. Some of the names on > > the back of the photo are: > > R.Dowlling, Lee, W. Charles, R.J. Small, F. Styants, > > P.H. Klibbe, N.E. Ridley Perth W.A., G.F. McDonald, > > Sgt. B Sampson, Cpl. K. V. Kelly, sx2851 Cpl. Osborn, > > sx10581 Sgt. Baehnisch, R. Potts, Cpl. Gobbett > > Koondrook Vic., John Allenby, L.H. Talbot, G Ashton, > > Stawell Vic., S.G. Rogers, Wiluna W.A. > > Does anybody recognise any of these names? Information > > about Provost Companies would be appreciated. Thanks > > Robyne Kirsch. > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > > > > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== > Woy Woy War Memorial and Soldiers' Memorial Park > http://www.terrigal.net.au/~joanf/anzac1.htm >

Sorry I can't help with your question but if you are willing to make a copy of the picture available I would like to add it to the pages about the Australian Provosts and Military Police at http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-discipline/0-discipline-cat-index.htm Ted Harris ----- Original Message ----- From: "robyne kirsch" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 12:57 PM Subject: Photo Provost Coys > I have a photo of a group of men in different > uniforms, outside a barracks, taken during WW2. They > are from various > Provost companies, which I think is military police. > Some of the companies named on the back of the photo > are: > 1 Aust L of C Prov Coy, 7 Aust Div. Prov Coy, 2 Div. > Prov Coy, 5 Aust Corps Provost Coy No 1 Dog Act, 19 > Aust Independent Provost Platoon, New Guinea force > Provost Coy, 1 AA Provost Coy. There are some > Americans in the photo as well, which I think came > from 800 MP Bn. I am trying to find out why these > men from different coys, states and countries, are all > grouped together, and where the photo was taken, and > if any of my relatives are in it. Some of the names on > the back of the photo are: > R.Dowlling, Lee, W. Charles, R.J. Small, F. Styants, > P.H. Klibbe, N.E. Ridley Perth W.A., G.F. McDonald, > Sgt. B Sampson, Cpl. K. V. Kelly, sx2851 Cpl. Osborn, > sx10581 Sgt. Baehnisch, R. Potts, Cpl. Gobbett > Koondrook Vic., John Allenby, L.H. Talbot, G Ashton, > Stawell Vic., S.G. Rogers, Wiluna W.A. > Does anybody recognise any of these names? Information > about Provost Companies would be appreciated. Thanks > Robyne Kirsch. > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com >

I have a photo of a group of men in different uniforms, outside a barracks, taken during WW2. They are from various Provost companies, which I think is military police. Some of the companies named on the back of the photo are: 1 Aust L of C Prov Coy, 7 Aust Div. Prov Coy, 2 Div. Prov Coy, 5 Aust Corps Provost Coy No 1 Dog Act, 19 Aust Independent Provost Platoon, New Guinea force Provost Coy, 1 AA Provost Coy. There are some Americans in the photo as well, which I think came from 800 MP Bn. I am trying to find out why these men from different coys, states and countries, are all grouped together, and where the photo was taken, and if any of my relatives are in it. Some of the names on the back of the photo are: R.Dowlling, Lee, W. Charles, R.J. Small, F. Styants, P.H. Klibbe, N.E. Ridley Perth W.A., G.F. McDonald, Sgt. B Sampson, Cpl. K. V. Kelly, sx2851 Cpl. Osborn, sx10581 Sgt. Baehnisch, R. Potts, Cpl. Gobbett Koondrook Vic., John Allenby, L.H. Talbot, G Ashton, Stawell Vic., S.G. Rogers, Wiluna W.A. Does anybody recognise any of these names? Information about Provost Companies would be appreciated. Thanks Robyne Kirsch. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com

Rob and Jan, I am new to the list and I would like to start my contribution by providing further detail regarding the rank of Craftsman. As Rob accurately advised, Craftsman is the rank of a private. The rank superceded (at a date unknown to me) the rank of Artisan and is restricted to private soldiers in either of the related following Corps (depending on the era): Australian Army Ordnance Corps (1 July 1928 - 1 Dec 1942) Corps of Australian Electrical and Mechanical Engineers (1 Dec 1942 - 31 Dec 1948) Royal Corps of Australian Electrical and Mechanical Engineers ( 31 Dec 1948 - Present) Generally speaking Craftsmen (sometimes referred to as "Crafties") were trades(men and women) responsible for inspection, maintenance, repair and recovery of most Army equipment - such as radios, binoculars, telescopes, compasses, tanks, trucks, cars, motorcycles, small-arms and artillery pieces. Actual responsibilities have varied over time. An excellent reference is the "Craftsmen of the Australian Army - The Story of RAEME" by Theo Barker, published by RAEME Corps Committee (1992) ISBN 1 86333 057 7 Call 358.2230994 The Corps Museum is located at Army Logistic Training Centre (Gaza Barracks ) Bandiana Victoria. Regards Dale Whelan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Duggan" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 2:23 PM Subject: Re: "in the field"/Craftsman > Hi Jan, > > Craftsmam is the same as private. > > As for "in the field", I would take a guess that he signed up overseas > direct to a unit like some militia members joined units in PNG and other > places (like Create) though I could be wrong on this (I put this in before I > get jumped on) :) :). > > Cheers, > > Robert Duggan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jan Glasby" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 5:29 PM > Subject: "in the field"/Craftsman > > > > Hi all, > > > > I have a couple of questions about info from the WW2 nominal roll. > > > > What is meant by "in the field" as the place of enlistment? > > > > What rank is a "Craftsman"? > > > > Cheers > > Jan > > > > > > ==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ==== > Woy Woy War Memorial and Soldiers' Memorial Park > http://www.terrigal.net.au/~joanf/anzac1.htm > >

Jan I had a great uncle who enlisted in the field. He was originally part of the militia/VDC and decided to sign up to go overseas - this Moree boy enlisted at Katherine in the NT as this was where he was stationed at the time but his record states in the field as the location. The VDC were not sent to the NT so I would think that your great uncle enlisted in the Citizen Military Forces (militia). The militia was a part time force called up for continuous full time duty from early 1942 although some units had been on full time duty from at least 1941. After 1942 the militia were encouraged to transfer to the AIF. Many militia did so and if 75% of their unit were AIF members then the unit was deemed to be an AIF unit. Anthony Staunton

As I understand it Pioneer units build bailey bridges etc so the army can get to where it wants to go. One way of proectng a ciity etc is to blow up the bridges, raods etc as you retreat so the on coming Army cant get though. WW2 a number of bridges around the Hawkesbury to th north of Sydney were blown up or were ready to be blown up if Japanese landed, Elizabeth ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 8:47 AM Subject: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V02 #207

Hi all I had a great uncle who enlisted in the field. He was originally part of the militia/VDC and decided to sign up to go overseas - this Moree boy enlisted at Katherine in the NT as this was where he was stationed at the time but his record states in the field as the location. Hope this helps Jan Herivel -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, 31 December 2002 8:47 AM To: [email protected] Subject: AUS-MILITARY-D Digest V02 #207

Hello List, Just what was the work for a "Pioneer Battalion"? Did they go in ahead of others to prepare in some way? I can't think how, because the ordinary soldier carried his own trenching tool and set to digging as and when required. Maybe they set up facilities such as latrines or secured a water supply? I'm sure somebody on the List knows the answers. Yours, Julie

Hi Jan, Craftsmam is the same as private. As for "in the field", I would take a guess that he signed up overseas direct to a unit like some militia members joined units in PNG and other places (like Create) though I could be wrong on this (I put this in before I get jumped on) :) :). Cheers, Robert Duggan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan Glasby" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 5:29 PM Subject: "in the field"/Craftsman > Hi all, > > I have a couple of questions about info from the WW2 nominal roll. > > What is meant by "in the field" as the place of enlistment? > > What rank is a "Craftsman"? > > Cheers > Jan >

Hi all, I have a couple of questions about info from the WW2 nominal roll. What is meant by "in the field" as the place of enlistment? What rank is a "Craftsman"? Cheers Jan

Hi there I have just received a book complied by a researcher on part of my wife's family. My MIL and I have been looking at that side of the family for quite some time. We know from other sources as well as this book that her GFather died in France during WW1. A photo in this book shows his tombstone including the inscription "killed in action". I have copies of correspondence from his Commanding Officer at the time of his death which states in part - "The patient was thin but of good colour, a splendid wardsman who looked after him well said. He told us he had enteric, but I presume the authorities would not say he had c. spinal meningitis." GF died as a result of meningitis. Question - Were all deaths in the field or at aid stations noted as killed in action? John B

At 21:47 30/12/02 +0000, Julie Robinson wrote: >Just what was the work for a "Pioneer Battalion"? Did they go in ahead >of others to prepare in some way? >I can't think how, because the ordinary soldier carried his own trenching >tool and set to digging as and when required. >Maybe they set up facilities such as latrines or secured a water supply? A pioneer battalion was organised like an infantry battalion but contained a large number of tradesmen. Although the infantry could dig their own trench lines, the preparation of them was a normal task for the pioneers. They also buried the signal wires. Prior to the late part of the Second World War most engineering work in the Australian Army was done with hand tools. There was therefore little difference between the engineers and the pioneers. The Australian pioneers liked to carry out tasks which would have been the province of the engineers in the British Army. The built, roads, depots, bridges and railways. Ross